azsinglegal Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Not all. OK, saying not giving me the time of day is a bit extreme. They're nice and friendly, but wouldn't ever dream of dating me. Why not? Have you asked? How do you know that's the extreme case? Seriously...you might surprise yourself. Unless...you have a high opinion of yourself in which case you might be trying to date "up"?
somedude81 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Why not? Have you asked? How do you know that's the extreme case? Seriously...you might surprise yourself. Unless...you have a high opinion of yourself in which case you might be trying to date "up"? I've been turned down by every girl I've ever been interested in. As for me trying to date up. I don't know. If you don't mind, I could send you a picture of myself and the girl I'm trying to date and you could tell me what you think.
azsinglegal Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 For some historical perspective on a couple of people mentioned upthread, regarding appearance, see the following: Albert Einstein, photographed in 1912 Norma Jeane Baker, photographed with her "aunt" Ana (near right), around 1939. In general, people want and covet what they want and covet. It's individual and the 'reasons' are manifold and unique to that individual. Regarding like being attracted to like, as an anecdote, of her three husbands, my exW married the most 'like' when she married me. Now she's back to her previous path of opposite. Perhaps I was her grand experiment, IDK. I don't get wound up in all that looks stuff since it's so subjective anyway. Beauty is also truly in the eyes of the beholder.
Leegh Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Disagree completely. I see many women complaining here and elsewhere that most men want only women with model looks when the men in question don't have model looks themselves. Then I see complaints like the above that men are intimidated by beautiful women and won't approach them. Which is it then? If one is the case, the other one can't really be unless the majority of men don't ever approach women, which is NOT the case, so which? I have had the fortune (good or ill is up in the air) to date and be in mid to long relationships with some exceptionally beautiful women. The best looking of these was way up in near perfection land, perfect face, perfect body, could match anything in Hollywood, Playboy or Sports Illustrated easily, oozing sex appeal, respectability, innocence and athleticism at the same time (crazy as hell but that's another story). Her life was a literal barrage of compliments and good vibes from every angle, men literally poured from the woodwork, when we went to restaurants and clubs where she had never been, the amount of fawning and attention from the staff was outrageous to the point of annoyance and embarrassment. All my male friends, young, old, good looking, ugly, fat, bald, rich, hit on her and flirted with her shamelessly right in front of me, some known for 20+ years who had never ever done anything similar with other more average women I dated. She had men from work calling her daily and asking her out, men from her apartment complex hanging around where they thought she might appear, men everywhere of all shapes, sizes ages and descriptions trying to get close to her. We were together about a year before she upgraded me, so this wasn't some impression I formed over a week or two but over months. Good looking people have it MUCH MUCH easier in every single aspect of life, and the better looking they are the easier they have it. That's a fact, and research backs it up. Before I will go to the trouble of citing it, the people who believe otherwise need to cite to the contrary, because I know of MANY studies that demonstrate this simple fact we all know by common sense in addition to the studies. Now, way back in HS, when people are just post pubescent and getting their sexual grounding, there may be some truth to it, as I remember some of the most beautiful women not getting much attention then, but afterwards, and especially post college, no, men are not intimidated by beautiful women. As to the question why looks are valued? Eeyore had the biological answer down, but there is more to it. The biology answer negates our evolved brains to an extent, and whereas the visceral sexual attraction comes from the involuntary brain IMO, the "I like shiny" comes from the voluntary conscious cerebral cortex, and is moderated by the stimulus we receive via culture. Our culture today is a media driven culture, so we are painting ourselves into a corner by continuing to consume media images of physical perfection that crowd out our taste for other more substantial qualities. If you feel unhappy with your people picker, one solution may be to turn off the tv and remove oneself to the extent possible from media messages for a good long time. Your post is well written, but I disagree with most of it. Suppose we have an "average" guy, a Plain-Jane and Angelina Jolie. Which one of these two ladies would our "average" guy be more nervous approaching and asking out?
Wolf18 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 I have to ask, how do the girls who look similar to you not give you the time of day? Are you a jackass? I have to say, I'm in the same boat. Girls who are objectively equal to me in looks are not physically attracted to me, instead they are attracted to the guys everyone else is. I'm not full of myself or exaggerate my looks, so just believe me when I say the girls rejecting me aren't out of my league, they just think they are because some high status guy is willing to have no strings attached sex with them.
azsinglegal Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 I've been turned down by every girl I've ever been interested in. As for me trying to date up. I don't know. If you don't mind, I could send you a picture of myself and the girl I'm trying to date and you could tell me what you think. Sure...but pictures don't tell everything either.
Wolf18 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Your post is well written, but I disagree with most of it. Suppose we have an "average" guy, a Plain-Jane and Angelina Jolie. Which one of these two ladies would our "average" guy be more nervous approaching and asking out? Most men hit on anything and everything. I get way more self conscious hitting on a plain -jane than on some super hot woman. When even the plain jane's reject you , that's way more devestating than some princess that you have nothing to lose with. I think I'm going to start doing what women do with men and only hit on 10 out of 10 looking women. Not because they are particularly interesting or even me wanting anything more than sex with most of them, but instead because the self-esteem blow is non-existent compared to some of the attitudes of plain janes who think they're 10's because they saw a Dove soap commercials telling them to act that way.
jobaba Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 I've been turned down by every girl I've ever been interested in. As for me trying to date up. I don't know. If you don't mind, I could send you a picture of myself and the girl I'm trying to date and you could tell me what you think. I'll take a look.
MaxNoob Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 I don't think anyone has dared to postulate that there is a 'simple' reasoning for the development of human intelligence thus far. We may have evolved from aquatic apes; it was the richer nutrients from the sea that allowed our brains to grow. All the other land dwelling animals from Africa did not get smarter. It explains why we're such good swimmers, why we can hold our breath (to hunt underwater) unlike every other primate, and why our babies are born fat (insulation from the rapid heat loss in water), also unique to humans. Babies are born with same kind of mucus as seals and women can give birth underwater with no difficulty; the baby instinctively knows what to do. I did read a study that showed a correlation between good looks and IQ, but that's not enough to establish causation. Men with higher IQ can earn more money, so they can choose a prettier woman, who will then pass on their genes to have attractive and intelligent kids.
azsinglegal Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 I have to say, I'm in the same boat. Girls who are objectively equal to me in looks are not physically attracted to me, instead they are attracted to the guys everyone else is. I'm not full of myself or exaggerate my looks, so just believe me when I say the girls rejecting me aren't out of my league, they just think they are because some high status guy is willing to have no strings attached sex with them. Wrong girls. I always date average looking guys. Kinda dorky, but fun. I go for cute guys who make me laugh. My last ex was the most handsome man I've ever dated...everyone told me so. He was also full of himself and a total POS cuz his opinion was very high. My current BF is adorable, but his body is slamming. He has the BEST body I've ever been with, but he's also much shorter then I'd date - being my height at 5'6" sometimes is awkward. He does make me laugh tho...all the time. I love that about him...his sense of humor speaks volumes. I never go after the guy everyone else is trying to date. I like the quieter, average, funny guys...but again...seeing as how I'm still single and 38, maybe I should change what I'm going after. Maybe I'm not the best person to ask?
Content Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Its valued more then most other traits Ive seen women wonder why one of her friends after a few dates stopd seeing a guy because he was good looking as if thats all you need and ive also heard a women talk about her friend "can do better" when meeting a guy who wasnt the hottest thing in the world as if she couldnt fathom enjoying the company of someone who isnt a 9 or 10
AHardDaysNight Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 I think people are drawn to attractive people. That's about the lowdown of it. That doesn't mean that things like personality, and intelligence, aren't also valued. But looks will always be the thing that gets you in the door.
carhill Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Beauty is also truly in the eyes of the beholder. Yeah, and my eyes kept wandering to aunt Ana. Norma Jeane seemed like a somewhat fragile young lady and Ana, leaning over her shoulder, gave the appearance of a strong, confident older woman, evidently reflective of who she was in real life. She would go on to make Norma Jeane's first wedding gown and 'give her away' upon her first marriage to Jim Dougherty and take her back in after that union failed, later dying prior to the real hoopla over what Norma Jean's appearance would bring her. I think this photograph really underscores the real range of appearance and perception. One can see how Norma Jeane, now on the cusp of her rise to fame in 1946, stands out from the surroundings. Aunt Ana, now 66 and two years away from death, stands in somewhat wilted appearance next to her (right) but still with her head up, shoulders back and looking right at the camera. Then, eyes wander across the photo to the striking young lady on the far left. What became of her? Interesting.
PJKino Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Most men hit on anything and everything. I get way more self conscious hitting on a plain -jane than on some super hot woman. When even the plain jane's reject you , that's way more devestating than some princess that you have nothing to lose with. I think I'm going to start doing what women do with men and only hit on 10 out of 10 looking women. Not because they are particularly interesting or even me wanting anything more than sex with most of them, but instead because the self-esteem blow is non-existent compared to some of the attitudes of plain janes who think they're 10's because they saw a Dove soap commercials telling them to act that way. Same here,ive hit on ehh looking women and had them give me that how dare you enter my airspace look or as im having a conversation with one in a lounge or bar see them eye contact with one of her friends to save her from me and take her away... If im gona hit on women and get rejected and humilliated anyway i might as well take a shot with women im actually attracted to.. Contrary to popular belief hitting on plain janes doesnt make it any easier to get a yes because a lot of times they have inflated egos and are just as picky as attractive women..
jobaba Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Sadly, I'm one of the exceptions. Girls who are of similar looks, height and body type as me don't give me the time of day. If I'm not mistaken, they want somebody better than them. Most men hit on anything and everything. I get way more self conscious hitting on a plain -jane than on some super hot woman. When even the plain jane's reject you , that's way more devestating than some princess that you have nothing to lose with. I think I'm going to start doing what women do with men and only hit on 10 out of 10 looking women. Not because they are particularly interesting or even me wanting anything more than sex with most of them, but instead because the self-esteem blow is non-existent compared to some of the attitudes of plain janes who think they're 10's because they saw a Dove soap commercials telling them to act that way. Wolf answered your question for you. Because the game is structured for the male to be the pursuer, a woman will have many more options than a man of equal attractiveness. Thus, she can be more picky and reject men of her similar physical stature. For instance, if you had a sister who looked just like you, and you were separated at birth, and you went to hit on her, you'd probably get rejected.
Pierre Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 ROFL not sure if I agree that the General Officers being tall and handsome proves a point about intelligence But anyhow. I'm not sure what measurements Einstein had, but I doubt many people found any of his pictures attractive. Perhaps he really was symmetric but did not do anything to maintain his appearance, and thus the time/effort/money spent on appearance actually matters more than genetics. My experience, regardless of that, has been that highly intelligent people are not usually stereotypically attractive in terms of physique (I'm talking about conventional intelligence of course, so my benchmark is the not-very-accurate but easily-tested acceptance into high IQ societies), but my hypothesis on that was that they spent so much time pursuing the field of their choice that they neglected their physique, so that falls back to 'no correlation'. I think if we go to the extreme edges the highly intelligent folks may have a geeky look, but being a geek is not being ugly or attractive. Einstein looked like a crazy scientist, but his eyes were symmetric. Maybe you can google the images of Nobel prize winners.
Leegh Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Same here,ive hit on ehh looking women and had them give me that how dare you enter my airspace look or as im having a conversation with one in a lounge or bar see them eye contact with one of her friends to save her from me and take her away... If im gona hit on women and get rejected and humilliated anyway i might as well take a shot with women im actually attracted to.. Contrary to popular belief hitting on plain janes doesnt make it any easier to get a yes because a lot of times they have inflated egos and are just as picky as attractive women.. In reference to your last paragraph, the reason men may have a hard time getting a "yes" from a Plain-Jane is that she is approached so much and has more dating options than a beautiful woman.
somedude81 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Wolf answered your question for you. Because the game is structured for the male to be the pursuer, a woman will have many more options than a man of equal attractiveness. Thus, she can be more picky and reject men of her similar physical stature. For instance, if you had a sister who looked just like you, and you were separated at birth, and you went to hit on her, you'd probably get rejected. That's kind of what I already said. I figure that women don't want similar, they demand better. Which means trying to date women equal to me is pointless and I should be dating down...
PJKino Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 In reference to your last paragraph, the reason men may have a hard time getting a "yes" from a Plain-Jane is that she is approached so much and has more dating options than a beautiful woman. I dont think she has more options then a beautiful women per se but guys will hit on anything and a average looking women at some point probably had a fling with a guy above her league which inflated her ego and made her think she could reguarly get these hot guys..
AHardDaysNight Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Average looking people have it much harder than good looking people. We actually have to work to get into the relationships we get in. Good looking people can just snap their fingers, and just get a girl, or if they're a girl, a guy. That thread on overcoming shyness proves it! You can look like a model, and immediately a woman will throw herself on you.
Wolf18 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) Yes , I remember someone telling me about a girl I know who is for a fact pretty plain, maybe cute, but nothing that special. She's probably never been single for more than a month in her post-pubescent life, and thought she was too attractive for me when I tried to get with her (her personality/interests were really compatible with mine, and we deeply enjoyed each other's company). I don't care about looks within reason and she was attractive to me in her own way. Yet of course all the 6'4 blonde soccer stars at her school would hit on her for sex at parties, this makes her think she can do better. Some girl who was an outside observer than commented to me when I get mad at it that "well, she's pretty, thin, and has a moody quiet mysteriousness to her" I have a thin-athletic build, the girl actually did look like my sister (people would ask if she was related to me) , and her character is bordering on aspergers. But of course, in America she is attractive and I am not, I have to be 100 times better just to be considered equal. Edited November 2, 2011 by Wolf18
RiverRunning Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 I can't imagine telling any of my female friends, "You can do better," if I thought their boyfriends weren't attractive. Honestly, the idea has never crossed my mind. Sure, I might look and go, "To me, he's attractive/unattractive," but really that's the end of my thinking. As long as he's good to her and she's happy with him - is anything else really important? When I heard that men/women do that to their friends, I was shocked. Objectively speaking, I think I have generally shopped down in looks (which is pretty common for women, from studies/papers I've read). Men tend to shop up. But our perception of our looks will change depending on who flirts with us. Of course a woman who's pursued by a guy who looks like a model is going to think she looks better than if she were pursued by an average Joe. Who wouldn't?
Wolf18 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 ^ True. If I got very hot women aggressively approaching me for sex every time I went out, I'd probably start thinking I was a lot more attractive than I objectively am too. It's not really women's fault as much as it is player type men who will put their penis in anything above, at or below their league, and the hook up culture that let's a small percentage of men prosper.
azsinglegal Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Average looking people have it much harder than good looking people. We actually have to work to get into the relationships we get in. Good looking people can just snap their fingers, and just get a girl, or if they're a girl, a guy. That thread on overcoming shyness proves it! You can look like a model, and immediately a woman will throw herself on you. Agreed and this only gets harder with age. Seriously, since I'm over 35 I might as well join a convent according to the folks in here since I'll always be single.
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