OWs have emotional issues!!

[bentnotbroken]

I was talking to my therapist yesterday about this site and anti-social behavior in general. We discussed how pursuing a married person based on their marital status might be considered anti-social behavior. You're right. Anti-social behavior is linked to personality disorders.

 

I think it's unfair to say that people who go for married men are anti-social, especially any OW being alluded to here. Some OW have been hurt so deeply in childhood, that they compensate with false bravado. If you knew them in real life, you would see a different person than you see here. It's very obvious that she's been hurt in the past and has some serious emotional scars because of it.

 

I had emotional issues when I was in my EA. There is no shame in saying it. People shouldn't be ashamed to say they have problems, because admitting to them is the first step in correcting them.

 

 

Actually I was only responding to one poster, the one I quoted. I said earlier in the thread that I don't believe AP have anymore emotional issues that anyone else. And anti-social disorder wasn't the one I was thinking of when I wrote the post. And just for the record, I do know AP in real life (past issues included)...my opinion is the same.

[VivienViolet]

Actually I was only responding to one poster, the one I quoted. I said earlier in the thread that I don't believe AP have anymore emotional issues that anyone else. And anti-social disorder wasn't the one I was thinking of when I wrote the post. And just for the record, I do know AP in real life (past issues included)...my opinion is the same.

 

Oh yes! We agree more than we disagree! My therapist mentioned that someone with emotional issues so deep as to present with a personality disorder often needs years of intensive therapy. Even hospitalization sometimes!

 

The tone of this thread leads me to believe that people want to deny emotional problems. We shouldn't do that because there's no shame in having issues. We should lift each other up and encourage each other to be our best self.

[VivienViolet]

Those who just want anonymous sex with MM are about empowerment; that's a whole different animal.

Spark1111, I'm very interested in your comment. In my journey toward reconciliation, I've learned that it is much more empowering to be in a loving committed relationship because it requires more of us. It's easy to engage a married person into sex. I view that as lazy. Not empowering.

[donnamaybe]

Spark1111, I'm very interested in your comment. In my journey toward reconciliation, I've learned that it is much more empowering to be in a loving committed relationship because it requires more of us. It's easy to engage a married person into sex. I view that as lazy. Not empowering.

I agree with this 100%. It takes commitment, communication, understanding, cooperation, love - a myriad of positive qualities that are absolutely unecessary when it comes to just boinking a cheater.

[Spark1111]

Spark1111, I'm very interested in your comment. In my journey toward reconciliation, I've learned that it is much more empowering to be in a loving committed relationship because it requires more of us. It's easy to engage a married person into sex. I view that as lazy. Not empowering.

 

Not if you have emotional issues. True philanderes who seek anonymous sex (Serial cheaters) have power and control issues and or narcissistic traits.

 

Many were abused as children.

 

Go figure.

[Spark1111]

Spark1111, I'm very interested in your comment. In my journey toward reconciliation, I've learned that it is much more empowering to be in a loving committed relationship because it requires more of us. It's easy to engage a married person into sex. I view that as lazy. Not empowering.

 

I agree with you, of course.

 

But if you purposely target married people for sex, then that is less about the MP as it is about besting the BS, or empowering yourself continuously, most-likely because of a childhood dynamic when you were made to feel powerless.

 

Serial cheating has less to do with novelty and libido than most people realize.

 

It has to do with regaining power and control against the abusive or dominating parent.

 

Yeah, pretty messed up.

[VivienViolet]

I agree with this 100%. It takes commitment, communication, understanding, cooperation, love - a myriad of positive qualities that are absolutely unecessary when it comes to just boinking a cheater.

 

Oh my, yes! I'm still so ashamed at how lazy I was! I really wish more other women and men knew just how easy it was. Take two people with limited boundaries and abundant need for external validation, and you have the perfect storm for an affair! Other women and men need to understand too, that the married person in an affair has just as many emotional issues as they do!

[VivienViolet]

I agree with you, of course.

 

But if you purposely target married people for sex, then that is less about the MP as it is about besting the BS, or empowering yourself continuously, most-likely because of a childhood dynamic when you were made to feel powerless.

 

Serial cheating has less to do with novelty and libido than most people realize.

 

It has to do with regaining power and control against the abusive or dominating parent.

 

Yeah, pretty messed up.

Yes. I've learned that many serial cheaters have parental issues. For example, Serial OW may have mommy issues, feeling that the betrayed wife is like the abusive mother who is bested by the OW being able to win the spouse away. That is very messed up. It has nothing to do with the betrayed spouse, and everything to do with the emotional scars of the two people in the affair.

 

I recall it being said about abusive cycles that the abused who is powerless can become abusive when they are in charge of someone vulnerable. Sadly, they exploit that vulnerability in attempt to regain that power that they lost.

 

That is why I say that no one should be ashamed to admit they have emotional issues. They should be open to help and not forcing their issues deeper down because they are ashamed.

[NoIDidn't]

Other women and men need to understand too, that the married person in an affair has just as many emotional issues as they do!

 

I haven't read the entire thread, but feel the whole thing can be summed up with the above statement.

 

Like attracts like. So if the OW/OM has emotional issues, so too, does the MP that they enter the affair with.

 

Emotionally healthy people with healthy boundaries and strong values do not have affairs. And I don't say that to insult anyone. We all have our issues, but not all of us have the wavering values and boundaries required to disregard someone else's private relationship or hope for the break up of someone else's home. That's just not right and I don't believe anyone is entitled to redefine right and wrong for their own benefit.

 

Its been my opinion for some time that OPs generally have a moral code that they want applied to them by others, but don't feel its required of them to treat others according to that same code. I've once heard it referred to as living by two sets of rules, one you do to others and the other you want done to yourself. And that's whether they are currently in an affair or not (they may not have even had an affair yet). I think many of us have a friend or know people that we feel will one day become an OW/OM just based on the way they view the world and the way they interact in it. And having the two sets of rules worldview just seems to be a requirement to be the "other" to someone else's relationship.

[Spark1111]

I haven't read the entire thread, but feel the whole thing can be summed up with the above statement.

 

Like attracts like. So if the OW/OM has emotional issues, so too, does the MP that they enter the affair with.

 

Emotionally healthy people with healthy boundaries and strong values do not have affairs. And I don't say that to insult anyone. We all have our issues, but not all of us have the wavering values and boundaries required to disregard someone else's private relationship or hope for the break up of someone else's home. That's just not right and I don't believe anyone is entitled to redefine right and wrong for their own benefit.

 

Its been my opinion for some time that OPs generally have a moral code that they want applied to them by others, but don't feel its required of them to treat others according to that same code. I've once heard it referred to as living by two sets of rules, one you do to others and the other you want done to yourself. And that's whether they are currently in an affair or not (they may not have even had an affair yet). I think many of us have a friend or know people that we feel will one day become an OW/OM just based on the way they view the world and the way they interact in it. And having the two sets of rules worldview just seems to be a requirement to be the "other" to someone else's relationship.

 

NID, great post.

 

It also resonated with me. I do not understand the two sets of rules, by any justification!

 

I have started many a thread trying to understand the two sets of rules, and the one I most remember is asking how many OW would tolerate a MM having another OW(S) that they knew nothing about.

 

Not a single one. They were outraged, indignant, and the vast majority said they would kick his lying aZZ to the curb.

 

I did not understand this. How could it be okay to a participant in a secret affair where the the BS is constantly being lied to and deceived and yet if they were lied to and deceived, they would hate him?

 

Still doesn't make sense to me. Two sets of rules sums it up well. Thanks.

[findingnemo]

Im beginning to see how an OW can be assumed to have emotional issues. In the case of a serial OW, it is a no brainer that someone who would choose to engage continually in destructive Rs has issues.

 

My OP was really to ask if it makes sense that OWs in general have emotional issues which make them vulnerable to As. OWs react in different ways to this label and I'm sure there are those that have childhood issues and won't admit it. There are others with low self-esteem and yet some who feel empowered somehow.

 

On LS, I have read plenty of stories of one-time OWs who are quite sensible, who understand what happened and who accept responsibility. Even they don't accept the emotional issues label. I'm one of those. I had no childhood issues that would send me into destructive Rs. My parents are still M and happy after 37 years and they are very loving and supportive of my siblings and I. Being an AP was an aberration on my part and my family has never quite known the extent of the A or that we even had an A. The reason I never told them is because they'd have disapproved and quite vehemently too.

 

When I asked myself why I did this, how I could do this, I realized that naivety played a big role, denial of what I was doing was a big coping mechanism and the secrecy of the A was a shield. In view of these circumstances, I went against what I believed thinking that I would get the man. When I realized that this was not the case, I forced him to make a choice. I knew what the choice would be - his W and kids. But I needed him to vocalize it so that I could break away from what had become an addiction of sorts.

 

Did I have emotional issues that led me there? No. I sure got emotional issues from being in a R with a MP. I cross check anything a man tells me especially if he claims he is in love. I also do not for one minute trust xMM. The man definately has his own issues that lead him to make the choices he makes. How silly of me to have involved myself in his circus!! I know that I'll never ever be in another A. But I believe that being in an A, the fallout, the pain, is exactly what makes me sure I will never do this again. I've noticed the same sentiments from many.

 

ETA: My family knew how much I loved that man but would never have accepted that I become his mistress in any form. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but loving someone is not the crime here. It is engaging in what is deemed anti-social behaviour such as an A that is not acceptable. So I hid the details very well and I believe that the secrecy in effect enabled the continuation of the A. If I'd exposed early on, I'd have been in a much better place today.

Edited November 17, 2011 by findingnemo

[donnamaybe]

Im beginning to see how an OW can be assumed to have emotional issues. In the case of a serial OW, it is a no brainer that someone who would choose to engage continually in destructive Rs has issues.

Absolutely agree.

My OP was really to ask if it makes sense that OWs in general have emotional issues which make them vulnerable to As. OWs react in different ways to this label and I'm sure there are those that have childhood issues and won't admit it. There are others with low self-esteem and yet some who feel empowered somehow.

 

On LS, I have read plenty of stories of one-time OWs who are quite sensible, who understand what happened and who accept responsibility. Even they don't accept the emotional issues label. I'm one of those. I had no childhood issues that would send me into destructive Rs. My parents are still M and happy after 37 years and they are very loving and supportive of my siblings and I. Being an AP was an aberration on my part and my family has never quite known the extent of the A or that we even had an A. The reason I never told them is because they'd have disapproved and quite vehemently too.

 

When I asked myself why I did this, how I could do this, I realized that naivety played a big role, denial of what I was doing was a big coping mechanism and the secrecy of the A was a shield. In view of these circumstances, I went against what I believed thinking that I would get the man. When I realized that this was not the case, I forced him to make a choice. I knew what the choice would be - his W and kids. But I needed him to vocalize it so that I could break away from what had become an addiction of sorts.

 

Did I have emotional issues that led me there? No. I sure got emotional issues from being in a R with a MP. I cross check anything a man tells me especially if he claims he is in love. I also do not for one minute trust xMM. The man definately has his own issues that lead him to make the choices he makes. How silly of me to have involved myself in his circus!! I know that I'll never ever be in another A. But I believe that being in an A, the fallout, the pain, is exactly what makes me sure I will never do this again. I've noticed the same sentiments from many.

 

ETA: My family knew how much I loved that man but would never have accepted that I become his mistress in any form. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but loving someone is not the crime here. It is engaging in what is deemed anti-social behaviour such as an A that is not acceptable. So I hid the details very well and I believe that the secrecy in effect enabled the continuation of the A. If I'd exposed early on, I'd have been in a much better place today.

Are you saying you believe your friends/family may have been an influence whether you continued the A or not? You mean they wouldn't just say "do whatever you want because we love you and shouldn't try to influence you just because we believe you are hurting yourself."?

 

Also, do you think if you were one who hung on and on and on for many many many years, even though your AP refused to leave the spouse, that you would still consider yourself emotionally healthy?

[donnamaybe]

Was that your motivation in pursuing your MM? You seem to know an awful lot about that - far much more than the rest of us.

 

IMO, someone wanting a green card would do better to choose a SG / SW who would be free to marry them in a trice, without the complication of a D to suffer through first, so I'm not sure any OWs or OMs actually go looking for a MP purely to get a green card. But perhaps things are different in your neck of the woods?

Well, apparently it's okay to lie on this forum since no one has chosen to take down or alter this post, so...

 

I have never been involved with a married man. Ever. I had, in the past, been involved with a man who had a gf who he said he was dumping, but didn't do so quickly enough. Interestingly, he tried to get back with me after he dumped his user girlfriend, but I was having none of it. He wasn't good enough for me.

 

NEXT!

[bentnotbroken]

Can there be female hydras?

[donnamaybe]

Anyone who spends years and years and years waiting for someone's promises to come to fruition OR anyone who consistently sneaks around with ONLY married people has issues IMO.

[jlola]

Every one I know who cheated and thought they were in love with OP has said when asked "How can you trust them"? " Well, we both agree we will never cheat on each other.

 

Which leads e to believe they are already watching their back and want assurance from AP they will not do this destructive act to them.

 

I attribute it to pure selfishness. They are hypersensitive when the act they are committing is done to them. But insensitive enough to continue doing it to another.

 

Extremely puzzling. I try hard not to do to others what I would not want done to me. Especially something that could potentially damage another person and kids. Perhaps for life.

 

I guess some people don't understand the pain they inflict until someone else inflicts that same pain onto them. Then miracle of all miracles, they finally get it!!!!

[donnamaybe]

Every one I know who cheated and thought they were in love with OP has said when asked "How can you trust them"? " Well, we both agree we will never cheat on each other.

 

Which leads e to believe they are already watching their back and want assurance from AP they will not do this destructive act to them.

 

I attribute it to pure selfishness. They are hypersensitive when the act they are committing is done to them. But insensitive enough to continue doing it to another.

 

Extremely puzzling. I try hard not to do to others what I would not want done to me. Especially something that could potentially damage another person and kids. Perhaps for life.

 

I guess some people don't understand the pain they inflict until someone else inflicts that same pain onto them. Then miracle of all miracles, they finally get it!!!!

That's why I wasn't going to remain involved with a guy who, though he said he was finished with his GF, didn't let her know about it.

[jlola]

That's why I wasn't going to remain involved with a guy who, though he said he was finished with his GF, didn't let her know about it.

 

I once received a phone call on a Sunday morning from a woman who said she was his "live in " girlfriend. Though I really liked him I believe in taking things slow, so we had never been intimate.

 

I apologized and told her I did not know of the situation but no worries. I am out of here. Mind you this man was probably the sexiest man I had ever dated. Women commented on his all the time and the chemistry was off the chart!!!!

 

He would come to my work and wait outside for 2 weeks. He tried telling me they had just been living together out of convenience, but really broken up. Wanted no part of that drama. had enough of that bs growing up and vowed never to get into a toxic relationship if I could help it.

 

We all have choices when we enter a relationship. I know no matter how much chemistry I have for someone if he is under 30, or has substance issues,married ,tons of ex-wives etc. I will never allow myself to continue dating them until one day i am so attached I cannot leave. These red flags after finding out should be enough to make any women leave. We all should have boundaries while dating. But many don't and find themselves in tragic situations.

[findingnemo]

Absolutely agree.

Are you saying you believe your friends/family may have been an influence whether you continued the A or not? You mean they wouldn't just say "do whatever you want because we love you and shouldn't try to influence you just because we believe you are hurting yourself."?

 

Absolutely. My family telling me to stop would have forced me to end the A or to go underground with the full knowledge of their opinion. Had I gone underground regardless, it wouldn't have lasted because they'd question every absence and the scrutiny would make me uncomfortable. Thats why i say that the secrecy actually fueled the A. My family loves me for sure but would not tolerate me in an A. They are not religious or anything extreme, they just subscribe to certain principles. One thing I learned from being in an A was that one must stick to one's values when making decisions. I'd go further and say that rather than emotional issues, many people don't really think about what their values are and what they mean. I had values (or so I thought) but it took the A to test how important they were to me. I had to re-evaluate myself vis-a-vis who I wanted to be, who I was brought up to be and an AP was nothing near any of those.

 

Also, do you think if you were one who hung on and on and on for many many many years, even though your AP refused to leave the spouse, that you would still consider yourself emotionally healthy?

 

I firmly believe that I was emotionally healthy before I got involved in a an A but was naive to a great extent. But I can swear that the emotional issues started almost as soon as I got involved and continued all through. The double standard was too much for me and caused me a lot of anguish but since the A was secret, I kept my feelings bottled up. As long as I didn't talk to people who disapproved and therefore would re-in force my inner beliefs about the situation, I could push the thoughts aside and keep going. It was basically a choice between being mentally comfortable (my belief system) and losing the love of my life. For a long time, the latter was in my mind worse than the former. I also think that living on two separate continents for most of the time made it less contradictory somehow. It all came to ahead rather quickly once I returned to my country and we started seeing each other more often. I believe that the emotional issues that became worse with time just couldn't cloud the reality that he wasn't leaving. Once it clicked in my mind that this was a dead end, it was easy to see what I needed to do. Does that make any sense?

Edited November 17, 2011 by findingnemo

[donnamaybe]

It makes perfect sense. It is also good to note that when I think of what my friends might do or say were I in that situation (or vice versa) isn't so far fetched like a few would like folks to believe.

[findingnemo]

No problem, FS.

[donnamaybe]

An example of the troubles an A can bring about. Granted, this woman was obviously unbalanced, but had there not been something as drama inducing as an A this wouldja't have happened. So sad.

 

[url=] http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45389913/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/ /[/url]

[findingnemo]

Oh my G!!! This woman really was crazy.

[sayitasitis]

I firmly believe that I was emotionally healthy before I got involved in a an A but was naive to a great extent. But I can swear that the emotional issues started almost as soon as I got involved and continued all through. The double standard was too much for me and caused me a lot of anguish but since the A was secret, I kept my feelings bottled up. As long as I didn't talk to people who disapproved and therefore would re-in force my inner beliefs about the situation, I could push the thoughts aside and keep going. It was basically a choice between being mentally comfortable (my belief system) and losing the love of my life. For a long time, the latter was in my mind worse than the former. I also think that living on two separate continents for most of the time made it less contradictory somehow. It all came to ahead rather quickly once I returned to my country and we started seeing each other more often. I believe that the emotional issues that became worse with time just couldn't cloud the reality that he wasn't leaving. Once it clicked in my mind that this was a dead end, it was easy to see what I needed to do. Does that make any sense?

 

I remember thinking (when I thought I was able to handle and embark on the affair) that I would just tell my friends that he's just waiting for his divorce to be finalized to validate this "relationship."

 

I was "crazy" enough to not want to care what others think.

[findingnemo]

I remember thinking (when I thought I was able to handle and embark on the affair) that I would just tell my friends that he's just waiting for his divorce to be finalized to validate this "relationship."

 

I was "crazy" enough to not want to care what others think.

 

I was on the other end of the spectrum. I only told my friends who already knew about our previous R and who were bound to be more "understanding" of the situation. The other people that found out only speculated and never ever heard it from myself or xMM. He OTOH told his friends and his brothers. On his side, it was mainly males that accepted it. A couple of his friends once sat him down and asked him to make a choice between me and BS. One of them got a D and reconciled with an old flame. The other was/is happily M for many years. They argued that xMM can't live the way he was making both BS and I suffer because of indecision. I agreed when he told me that they were right.

 

I did care what others thought. I didn't want anybody to know that I was an OW, at least not the people who didn't know the back story and therefore couldn't or wouldn't just let it be. Therein lies the double standard. That I could engage in something I believed was wrong and justify it in my mind as love is mind boggling. But it happened!! I did it and continued to do so for a very long time. Living that lie made me more and more secretive, less open to questions about my Rs and it made it easier and easier for me to compartmentalize my life. Prior to the A, I was emotionally sound. But the A changed that and because all of it was at odds with my beliefs, the dam eventually broke and I just couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't sustain the "crazy" forever.