Metis Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Hyperbole? Sweet irony. You expressly state that drawing attention to bad behavior or unrealistic expectations in some women equates to "hating" all women? that's not hyperbolic? Ah, it only works in one direction... I see. Ahh, misrepresentation. No, me drawing attention to bad behavior and a ridiculous blame game by ONE man was not hyperbolic. Accusing all (with the exception of "some") women of non-existent bad behavior or blaming them for having any standards at all is, however, a hyperbole. I am sorry OP is experiencing this rejection, it happens to all of us, time to move onto other options. Simple as that.Not the advice you would give to Woggle, though, right? Women, not men, are the primary upgraders and dumpers in relationships.That's PUA nonsense. Sorry, but I don't take you guys, seriously. You believe in all kinds of sciencey-sounding woo, for which there is no actual evidence. When women get upgraded or dumped, it is usually because of an unrealistic estimation of their own value in the dating market.Same as when men get upgraded or dumped -- their unrealistic estimation of their own "value" in the "dating market". Women are told via countless cultural messages today that there is a rich, handsome prince for her, even if she isn't a rich, beautiful princess herself. The truth is not so fantastical.You mean, unlike all the countless cultural messages today that tell men that there is an impossibly beautiful, devoted woman just for him, even though he has no looks, talent, or money? Like messages that if he's getting on, he can expect someone half his age or less and looking like a supermodel or an anime girl doting on him? Or is this another one of those discussions about women being too stupid to tell the difference between fantasy and reality, but men being capable?
Metis Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 At the time I married her I though she was a nice girl. It wasn't my fault I was lied to. When she exposed who she was I got out. Let's reverse the genders. If a woman said: "At the time I married him I thought he was a nice guy. It wasn't my fault I was lied to. When he exposed who he was, I got out." You would still blame her for choosing a "player" -- right?
Woggle Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Women inititiate 75% of divorces so yes they are the primary upgraders and dumpers.
Woggle Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Let's reverse the genders. If a woman said: "At the time I married him I thought he was a nice guy. It wasn't my fault I was lied to. When he exposed who he was, I got out." You would still blame her for choosing a "player" -- right? No I wouldn't. I do blame people who blatantly chase after jerks and then complain when they act like a jerk. If a woman fell for a man's lie then dumped him I would have sympathy for her.
Metis Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Women inititiate 75% of divorces so yes they are the primary upgraders and dumpers. If a man cheats on his wife and she initiates the divorce, who is responsible for ending the marriage? The fact that women initiate the most divorces does not give any indication as to who is more responsible for the breakdown of their marriages. At most, it shows that women benefit from marriage a lot less than men -- and certainly a lot less than the media and officious friends tell them.
Metis Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 No I wouldn't. I do blame people who blatantly chase after jerks and then complain when they act like a jerk. If a woman fell for a man's lie then dumped him I would have sympathy for her. Then why do you automatically assume women chase after jerks? Jerks don't have it written on their forehead that they are jerks. And most show their face only when they've got the woman right where they want her.
Woggle Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 If a man cheats on his wife and she initiates the divorce, who is responsible for ending the marriage? The fact that women initiate the most divorces does not give any indication as to who is more responsible for the breakdown of their marriages. At most, it shows that women benefit from marriage a lot less than men -- and certainly a lot less than the media and officious friends tell them. Most of divorces are because she fell out of love or needs to find herself or whatever reason they say but yet men still get crap for being committmentphobes. I know so many men who were loving and faithful only to wake up one day and get blindsided.
OnyxSnowfall Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 No I wouldn't. I do blame people who blatantly chase after jerks and then complain when they act like a jerk. If a woman fell for a man's lie then dumped him I would have sympathy for her. Sure you would. I think you just like derailing your truth here --- you state empty things, perhaps just so you don't incur so much **** for being a double-standard infested hypocrite or perhaps because you think one day you'll be able to believe in your own lies. But for now, it's sloppy and you always undo your blatant bull **** attempts at some point.
Woggle Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Then why do you automatically assume women chase after jerks? Jerks don't have it written on their forehead that they are jerks. And most show their face only when they've got the woman right where they want her. Most men have been both jerks and nice guys during their lives and we see which approach gets better results.
Metis Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Most of divorces are because she fell out of love or needs to find herself or whatever reason they say but yet men still get crap for being committmentphobes. That's not true at all. Most divorces are because she ended up being abused, or cheated on, or treated like nothing more than a household appliance. Most divorces are because she gave up so much of her achievements early on in the marriage, only to get bupkes in return. I know so many men who were loving and faithful only to wake up one day and get blindsided. Maybe if you talked to their wives, you'd get a different picture. You don't know what went on behind closed doors -- you weren't there. And you aren't seriously telling me that a man would tell you honestly: "I got dumped because I treated my wife like a lackey and haven't said a nice word to her in ten years."
OnyxSnowfall Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Most of divorces are because she fell out of love or needs to find herself or whatever reason they say but yet men still get crap for being committmentphobes. I know so many men who were loving and faithful only to wake up one day and get blindsided. are you aware of the inside details of MOST divorces and why they occur? Really? That's an amazing ability. First of all, no one's perfect. I highly doubt you were in your "first" marriage --- nor that your ex was --- second of all, many PEOPLE get betrayed. Many. Finally. .............. I'm sure there were probably "signs" with your ex that you could have heeded... you feel so sorry for yourself but not a woman who's been in your situation. Not really. You likely have some deep issue, some kind of traumatic imprint that has perhaps caused such bizarre associations - they're not the truth nonetheless. You should really seek professional help for that, and I state that with no amount of disdain nor judgment.
Metis Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Most men have been both jerks and nice guys during their lives and we see which approach gets better results. Most men are not scum, like "nice guys" and "jerks". "Nice guys" and jerks, however, are almost exactly the same.
Woggle Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Most men are not scum, like "nice guys" and "jerks". "Nice guys" and jerks, however, are almost exactly the same. They actually are very much different. I mentioned in the other thread about me getting a much better response when I wore my old wedding ring. That is a very common scenario.
OnyxSnowfall Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Woggle -- other men aren't you. It seems you think they "represent" you when you frighteningly draw an association with them and you ---- but they are there own men with their own lives. Woggle -- female genitalia/body parts are not "representative" of your ex, nor your mother. You need to work on rehashing the way you perceive things.
Woggle Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 All these guys can't be horrible men. There are two sides to a story but women are not always innocent victims. These are men who spoke lovingly about their wives and who I knew were not cheating yet their wives coworker smiles at them and all of a sudden they fall out of love. Either that or she feels like she has not achieved enough in her life and it is all his fault. I saw this growing up with my own parents. He pays for her school and is her biggest cheerleader plus does his share but my mother still decided my father was holding her back.
Metis Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 They actually are very much different. I mentioned in the other thread about me getting a much better response when I wore my old wedding ring. That is a very common scenario. You also said the majority of husbands getting divorced are loving and faithful, which I know not to be true. And anyway, proves my point -- the only difference between you as a nice guy and you a jerk was that old wedding ring. But even as a nice guy, you went out trying to get women despite hating them. If that's "nice", than the only difference between a nice guy and a jerk is one of semantics.
Woggle Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 You also said the majority of husbands getting divorced are loving and faithful, which I know not to be true. And anyway, proves my point -- the only difference between you as a nice guy and you a jerk was that old wedding ring. But even as a nice guy, you went out trying to get women despite hating them. If that's "nice", than the only difference between a nice guy and a jerk is one of semantics. I wasn't always this way. My friends were telling me that married men have a much easier time getting a woman so I thought I would give it a test. I still had my wedding ring from my ex so I put it on and told women I was married. I got almost four times as many positive responses as when I told them I was single.
Metis Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 All these guys can't be horrible men. There are two sides to a story but women are not always innocent victims. These are men who spoke lovingly about their wives and who I knew were not cheating yet their wives coworker smiles at them and all of a sudden they fall out of love.You say there are two sides to a story, then you turn around and claim that all these men are innocent victims. Just because you heard some man, somewhere, speak nicely about his wife doesn't mean all these men who got divorced were good husbands. If women aren't "innocent victims", neither are men. Stop whitewashing. Either that or she feels like she has not achieved enough in her life and it is all his fault. I saw this growing up with my own parents. He pays for her school and is her biggest cheerleader plus does his share but my mother still decided my father was holding her back.Maybe he was. We still live in a culture where a woman is expected to flush 20 years of hard work down the toilet -- and for what? To make steak, clean up and keep the baby from being a nuisance to its father. That's one hell of an upfront investment into a relationship. Paying for school later on is the LEAST you can do to make up for it. If more of those men who "unexpectedly" got divorced realized this, their marriages wouldn't break down.
Metis Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I wasn't always this way. My friends were telling me that married men have a much easier time getting a woman so I thought I would give it a test. I still had my wedding ring from my ex so I put it on and told women I was married. I got almost four times as many positive responses as when I told them I was single. Oh, you mean your friends, married men, admitted to you that they had experience of having an easier time picking up girls when married than when single? You mean, the same friends that you earlier described as "loving and faithful", that their wives dumped for no reason whatsoever? I rest my case.
Woggle Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I love how you just assume that is how my father treated my mother. I remember caring for me a whole lot more than she did. Also my friend's don't cheat but we did club a lot as single men and we observed things.
dasein Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Accusing all (with the exception of "some") women of non-existent bad behavior or blaming them for having any standards at all is, however, a hyperbole. "any standards at all?" hyperbole moar. Not the advice you would give to Woggle, though, right? Woggle is happily married. So no, moving on to other options is not the kind of advice I would give to a happily married man who hasn't made ANY complaints about his wife, and has only said nice things about her that I've seen here. Nor do I see any inconsistency in being happily married and simulteneously being free to call women out on shortcomings one has experienced in the past or sees in the present among ones peers. Citing bad generally female behavior is not "hatred," especially not on a dating board. I only see women here misusing the term "hatred" as a catchall for any opinion they don't agree with, not men. But if I were you, or any of a number of female posters here, and OP were a MAN, instead of offering contrary facts as I did, I would have simply launched directly into personal insults. "How dare you generalize women? Misogynist!" "You are just bitter!" "You just aren't good with women," "You must have a small penis." "You..." Instead I made a simple statement of fact, women ARE the primary upgraders and dumpers in relationships, not men. Believe this truth or not, I don't care. Same as when men get upgraded or dumped -- their unrealistic estimation of their own "value" in the "dating market". Wrong. Men are not the ones with arm long criteria lists for a mate. Women are. Men are not the ones who chase a tiny percentage of women, share them with other men in harem type arrangements today, ignoring or outright scorning the approaches of average women who are actually on their average level. Women are. Men may fantasize about getting with Heidi Klum, but unlike women, they have a pretty good rational grasp of the fact that she isn't going to pop out of a cake at his 50th birthday party. You mean, unlike all the countless cultural messages today that tell men that there is an impossibly beautiful, devoted woman just for him, even though he has no looks, talent, or money? The primary cultural messages that men receive in the U.S. are as easy to see as the "perfect princess" "have it all" messages women receive: 1. You aren't doing enough for women. 2. Men (white ones), other than 5% of the studs who can do no wrong, are bad or lacking, either abusive, pedophiles, corrupt businessmen, rapists, clowns, or some other bottom of the barrel, completely incompetent in managing their lives outside of the influence of some all-knowing, all-wise woman. 3. If you drink XYZ beer, you will get laid more. 4. Using Viagra will turn you into a cowboy. 5. A weird looking $500 putter will lower your handicap. That's about it. Or is this another one of those discussions about women being too stupid to tell the difference between fantasy and reality, but men being capable? We can go there if you like, but let's don't and say we did.
ascendotum Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) If YOU keep picking the wrong guys than it means YOU are doing something wrong. Let's be real for a moment, shall we? We both know there are good guys there who want RS and appreciate a good woman but we also know there are guys who just wanna screw around. It's up to you to filter those guys and pick the right ones for you; And if you look anything like Sophie than you should have the selection. The prof has the same thoughts as me OP. It would be interesting to see the types of guys you go for. What is your girl friend's take on why this keeps happeneing to you? I know a girl who could easily come on here and make a similar post as you. She's a really cute girl but been cheated on a number of times. From the description of her exs and the guys I see her get all gushy over at the bar/club, she really likes guys that are very confident and makes a point of saying this, however her version of confidence encompasses good looking guys who are narcissistic, self centered, arrogant, and full of themselves. They are all the same positive masculine traits to her...when shes looking for a new guy, though she sees these traits as bad in her breakup post evaluation, but that soon gets forgotten. I'm not saying this is you OP, but IDK, something doesn't make sense when a beautiful, fantastic girlfriend keeps getting dumped and via a shoddy text msg. Edited November 1, 2011 by ascendotum
betterdeal Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I'm attractive and 24 years old. I don't cheat and I'm a good girlfriend. I look like Sophie Ellis Bextor: I'm very pale with dark hair. But I keep getting dumped by text, coz guys "want to be single". I'm 24 and feel like giving up, seriously. Don't guys appreciate a good woman anymore? Why do guys always think tehre's someone better, even when they have a fantastic girlfriend? I'm going to guess lots of men think you're "high maintenance" because (a) you're pretty and (b) you're quite forthright. This is quite a common perception amongst men. How do your relationships usually end, if you don't mind me asking?
Woggle Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I also blame men who make bad decisions. I said in that other thread that the man who married Kim Kardashian is to blame for whatever happened. There is nothing about her whatsoever that screams marriage material and if a man thought he could make a good wife out of her he is a moron.
dasein Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Most divorces are because she ended up being abused, or cheated on, or treated like nothing more than a household appliance. Most divorces are because she gave up so much of her achievements early on in the marriage, only to get bupkes in return. I must agree with the above. It's true... in every corner of daytime tv land.
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