If a women goes out with you plenty of times , does it mean she likes you?

[somedude81]

For the record - I had a very close guy friend when I was in my 20's. We spent tons of time together. The boundaries of our relationship were well defined. But I guess he had a "crush" or whatever. Sometimes he would (so horribly awkwardly) try to make a move. It was AWFUL. I hated rejecting my good friend, and I felt angry that he was not respectful of the parameters of our relationship. His unwanted moves (and he knew better, too) almost damaged our friendship, which was golden

If you knew he liked you and wanted to be more, why did you maintain the friendship with him?

[Mrlonelyone]

She already rejected him:

 

Well then it's time for him to move on.

 

From the sound of this QG is being taken advantage of. Everyone here who has tried to relate to a woman romantically knows that far too many women will take advantage of this kind of situation if they can.

 

What will improve his self confidence and quality of life more than a good friend for him to spend his resources on, and not get anything in return is a good friend, who also feels romance towards him, and who would open her legs for him. A friend who will give him that warmest and sliperiest of embraces.

 

Not someone who will eventually end up telling him about her man problems and details of sex with other men.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

Weather a woman is a shy quiet chaste truly good girl ... or a loose easy party girl...they ALL want to feel like sexuality was not their idea.

 

This is because in our culture is is still not socially acceptable for a woman to openly admit to really enjoying or wanting sex. Which when you boil it down the main difference between a friendly relationship and a romantic one is the sexual component and all it entails.

 

So you need to be that bad awful man who convinced her to drop her drawers and do that nasty nasty bump and slide.

 

That is pretty bad advice.

 

And based on a false premise.

 

No. Not "ALL" women have given up responsibility for their own sexuality to men. Not at all.

 

And you seem to be oblivious or willfully ignoring the FACT that even if they are in complete ownership of their own sexual nature and desires, the majority of women are NOT INTERESTED in having sex with men to whom they are not sexually attracted. Most of us would rather be horny and unfulfilled (or, preferably, taking good care of ourselves ) than to have sex with a fellow who does not inspire us in that way.

 

So,

 

be that bad awful man who convinced her to drop her drawers and do that nasty nasty bump and slide.

 

is ONLY good advice to a man who is already "wanted" by the woman in question. Yes, in some cases, she will need some convincing by a man she WANTS.

 

If she doesn't want him, though, this approach is a recipe for not only rejection, but for making the guy look like a big creeper who will be energetically avoided at all costs in the future.

[Feelin Frisky]

Wow guys thanks. It all makes sense.

Maybe yea maybe i'm just company to her.. interesting.

 

I should touch her somewhere but i dont know....one time i touched her arms just like playful. i dont know if that was a good enough move.

 

 

"DID YOU EVER READ OR RESPOND TO MY POST TO YOU ABOUT TESTOSTERONE? "

 

About me needed testorone for my voice!!?? NO i'm not doing that . i have enough testerone

 

Dude don't take all these dismissive types opinions as fact that she's just friending you. You just never take any advice on simple ways to find out if she likes you more. I know I've told you more than twice how to get her to take your arm and then maybe your hand and you come back sounding like you've done zero. Ever think she's shy and nervous too? Every think she's awkward and doesn't know what to do because she's new at it? It's very possible you know. By doing nothing for so long now you've made it harder on yourself. That doesn't matter. If you go out to the movies or dinner again, give her your arm and then try her hand. If she takes your hand it's personal and you can start acting like a grown up man with her. Stop being a timid little boy about this.

[Mme. Chaucer]

If you knew he liked you and wanted to be more, why did you maintain the friendship with him?

 

Well, somedude, as I said, it's about 30 years later and our friendship is still going strong. So from my perspective (and his, obviously), what was between us that did not include having a sexual relationship was worthwhile.

 

BOTH of us "maintained the friendship."

 

I could write a book about all the things we have shared. Being lifelong friends worked, in the long run, much better than taking a stab at being "boyfriend and girlfriend," or whatever, would have.

[Mrlonelyone]

That is pretty bad advice.

 

And based on a false premise.

 

No. Not "ALL" women have given up responsibility for their own sexuality to men. Not at all.

 

And you seem to be oblivious or willfully ignoring the FACT that even if they are in complete ownership of their own sexual nature and desires, the majority of women are NOT INTERESTED in having sex with men to whom they are not sexually attracted. Most of us would rather be horny and unfulfilled (or, preferably, taking good care of ourselves ) than to have sex with a fellow who does not inspire us in that way.

 

So,

 

 

 

is ONLY good advice to a man who is already "wanted" by the woman in question. Yes, in some cases, she will need some convincing by a man she WANTS.

 

If she doesn't want him, though, this approach is a recipe for not only rejection, but for making the guy look like a big creeper who will be energetically avoided at all costs in the future.

 

That's the thing... The only way a man knows is to make a move and either be accepted or rejected.

 

A surprising number of women think about sex in a presexual revolution kind of way mme.

 

This thanksgiving when you are reading about the story of our Puritan founders there in new England and/or our Anglican founders there in Jamestown....reflect on that heritage. For their puritanical sensibilities inform the attitudes towards sex that we have in our culture to this day.

 

A scarlet A once sat, where a butterfly on the lower back does now, in our national psyche.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

This thanksgiving when you are reading about the story of our Puritan founders there in new England and/or our Anglican founders there in Jamestown....reflect on that heritage. For their puritanical sensibilities inform the attitudes towards sex that we have in our culture to this day.

 

A scarlet A once sat, where a butterfly on the lower back does now, in our national psyche.

 

How did adultery get into this discussion?

 

Anyway, if (according to you) women are functioning in today's culture the same way they did in the time of the "founding fathers," then men are too, right?

 

If that's the case, then NO woman better entertain the notion of EVER having sex outside of the marital union. Unless she wants to be a "whore" or even burned at the stake as a witch.

 

 

That's the thing... The only way a man knows is to make a move and either be accepted or rejected.

 

That, I don't disagree with. I just think it is wise for the man in question to gauge the pros and cons of making the move carefully before he does so.

 

If spending companionable time with THIS girl is valuable to the OP, and he has been gently rejected already, is it worthwhile to go for more vehement rejection and probable loss of the companionship?

 

I did ask him if he feels taken advantage of - and if he does, then it's probably not a good situation for him. If he doesn't, and he really likes the time they spend together, he needs to make a decision regarding whether he should push it or not.

 

Anyway, I don't think that the possibility that this girl may be mired in Puritanical thinking (and we have NO suggestion that she does) necessarily has any bearing upon whether she sees our OP as a potential boyfriend or sex partner.

[somedude81]

Well, somedude, as I said, it's about 30 years later and our friendship is still going strong. So from my perspective (and his, obviously), what was between us that did not include having a sexual relationship was worthwhile.

 

BOTH of us "maintained the friendship."

 

I could write a book about all the things we have shared. Being lifelong friends worked, in the long run, much better than taking a stab at being "boyfriend and girlfriend," or whatever, would have.

Rephrasing the question, why did you let the friendship continue in the beginning after he unsuccessfully tried to make moves? I realize that it was a long time ago for you and details might be forgotten.

 

The reason why I'm asking, is that I have a somewhat close female friend who knows I liked her for nearly two years. She keeps turning me down and I honestly can't figure out why she's still a friend. She must know I'm going to keep trying so why put up with the hassle of having to keep rejecting me? Why not just end the friendship?

[dasein]

Agree with Hokie, Phineas and Mrlonelyone. OP, the only way to know whether a woman is sexually attracted to you is to what extent she is accepting of your physical advances. Even if she is accepting, it is still not a certainty, just more likely. Lots of extraneous noise and unwarranted conjecture in this thread otherwise.

[Mrlonelyone]

Dude don't take all these dismissive types opinions as fact that she's just friending you. You just never take any advice on simple ways to find out if she likes you more. I know I've told you more than twice how to get her to take your arm and then maybe your hand and you come back sounding like you've done zero. Ever think she's shy and nervous too? Every think she's awkward and doesn't know what to do because she's new at it? It's very possible you know. By doing nothing for so long now you've made it harder on yourself. That doesn't matter. If you go out to the movies or dinner again, give her your arm and then try her hand. If she takes your hand it's personal and you can start acting like a grown up man with her. Stop being a timid little boy about this.

^This

 

And what I and others have said. Try to put your arm around her. Touch her in a way that is more than friendly but not sexual (i.e. DO give her a big hug from behind, DONT put your hand up her skirt). Unless she thinks you are 100% gay if she likes that kind of holding and cuddling then it's more than likely she likes you in a more than friendly way.

 

That said....I have heard of men who were "friended" to the extent that a woman would cuddle and even sleep (clothes on) with them in a utterly non-sexual way. I don't know or think that woman is so much of a *o*k tease that she would do that....but they exist.

[Lucky_One]

(Wouldn't it make sense to take advice from a person who has had healthy relationships in the past? Anyway...)

 

Guys, please don't forget that this girl is an Asian exchange student (wait, I think she is Asian). Their culture tends to women being shyer and not nearly as open to romantic relationships as their Western peers. Dating is not encouraged in their home countries until educations are complete.

 

So please stop encouraging QG to try to grope her. What the man needs is to learn how to get along socially BEFORE he can try to get along romantically.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Rephrasing the question, why did you let the friendship continue in the beginning after he unsuccessfully tried to make moves? I realize that it was a long time ago for you and details might be forgotten.

 

Because our friendship was important to me. If he never backed down, I think it ultimately would have made it impossible for us to continue to be friends. As it was, he would "try" maybe once or twice per year. I did get pissed, because I had made my boundaries clear and I thought he should respect them.

 

Obviously, I don't agree with the much touted (here on LS) "fact" that men and women can't be friends. Certainly, some can't.

 

The reason why I'm asking, is that I have a somewhat close female friend who knows I liked her for nearly two years. She keeps turning me down and I honestly can't figure out why she's still a friend. She must know I'm going to keep trying so why put up with the hassle of having to keep rejecting me? Why not just end the friendship?

 

I probably don't define "friendship" the same way that a lot of folks do. For example, I have to laugh when a woman posts here that a guy hit on her … she has a boyfriend, but she plans to hang out with the guy who hit on her "as friends."

 

What exactly would be the basis of that "friendship"?

 

I believe that friendship is a very deep and valuable relationship and deserves to be treated that way. Real friends are not a dime a dozen. People with whom you can share a deep understanding of aspects of life are rare and to me, treasured.

[Mme. Chaucer]

DO give her a big hug from behind,

 

 

Please, please DO NOT. If ANY man who was not already on physically intimate terms with me gave me a big hug from behind … oh my god.

 

He would SO wish he hadn't!

 

Just believe me, OP. That would be a very, very creepy move, and you might even get some unpleasant Ninja moves unleashed upon you if you try it.

 

That's for people who are comfortable with physical contact together.

 

 

So please stop encouraging QG to try to grope her. What the man needs is to learn how to get along socially BEFORE he can try to get along romantically.

 

Really, you guys.

 

Have you read the OP's posting history?

 

Learning basic social skills is something that is going to have to come before ever being able to put some smooth moves on a girl. Hanging out with this one socially, learning from that and getting comfortable rather than pushing it to the physical at this point in his life is probably the most positive thing for this guy.

[Feelin Frisky]

(Wouldn't it make sense to take advice from a person who has had healthy relationships in the past? Anyway...)

 

Guys, please don't forget that this girl is an Asian exchange student (wait, I think she is Asian). Their culture tends to women being shyer and not nearly as open to romantic relationships as their Western peers. Dating is not encouraged in their home countries until educations are complete.

 

So please stop encouraging QG to try to grope her. What the man needs is to learn how to get along socially BEFORE he can try to get along romantically.

 

Who said "grope"? Well, I didn't read back and there probably have been some suggestions to take liberties. But just in case I'm included in your remark, my suggestion--going back to even before him going to the movies with her and just when it was dinner, was to simply do the traditional gentlemanly thing of presenting his right arm. She avails herself to him so much that she is not going to melt down over something that innocuous. And I've had a chick take my arm like that who skipped out on the hand when I dropped my arm letting me know it wasn't happening. The night still went well. QG needs to start doing something other than asking the same questions. She just isn't leading him and someone's gotta lead or it's what it is.

[dasein]

So please stop encouraging QG to try to grope her. What the man needs is to learn how to get along socially BEFORE he can try to get along romantically.

 

"Physical advances" ~= "groping."

 

Not going to holler "racist," there's quite enough of that here lately, but assumptions based on supposed culture or upbringing are simply not valid today. I have met plenty of women from very traditional backgrounds who were "wild and free," and women from very sketchy family backgrounds who turned out quite conservative. Maybe it's opposites attract, or maybe rebelliousness is more universal throughout all cultures than conformity with tradition. Heck even "Fiddler on the Roof" acknowledged the malleability of tradition in the face of human desires years ago.

 

For young men in the U.S., socialization without a healthy nod to sexual assertiveness is a huge mistake. It's a "one package deal." Separating the two is responsible for massive damage in the development of many young men, lots of the types who end up lonely and griping here for instance, "I am good, everything she claims to want, value her as a person, yet she sleeps with some dude who is 'alpha' and nothing else."

 

OP be the best man you can be, and an important and necessary part of this is being sexually assertive in a socially acceptable way. Always have your own desires at the forefront of any interaction with newly met women. They certainly do the same, and are most certainly NOT valuing your desires above or even equal to their own from the start. Why should they and why should you? Take care of yourself and your wants and seek women doing the same whose desires intersect with yours.

 

It's YOUR job to figure out which is what, and getting the physical cards on the table sooner rather than later is the only relatively reliable way of doing that.

[PlumPrincess]

Hugging from behind...

 

Some suggestions here are really stupid, sorry for being so blunt. Even if I liked a guy, unless we were already on a pretty comfortable level, I would be irritated. And if it was a guy I was not interested in, he might get a "F*ck off!"

[quietGuy13]

Thanks all for your nice responses. I'm understanding more and more.

 

To answer, the question. Yes she's asian. and yes she's not the Party type Asian who goes to clubs( Many foreign asian girls that come from asia do tend to go to clubs in america and do all that and end up having playboy american or foreign boyfriends. I've seen that alot. But she's not that type ). ALthough she does seem to like to make friends with guys. so i'm not the only guy friend she has.

 

"By doing nothing for so long now you've made it harder on yourself. That doesn't matter. If you go out to the movies or dinner again, give her your arm and then try her hand."

-Yeah.. well i did try , i touched her arm sometime ago and held her hand but it was brief ..and just like playing.

 

As i said ,and someone else mentioned. I"ve kinda being rejected already. well she said she usually goes out with other male friends too..Giving me the impression of "Don't think that i went out with you in a romantic sense, i do this with many of my friends"

 

But oh well. Maybe i'll just keep seeing her and see if she grows to like me more.

[Mrlonelyone]

Let me just reiterate that no one said anything about "groping".

 

Holding hands, hugging, an arm around the waist is not groping. I have been groped, I know what it's like.

 

Now as for her being "Asian". Let me ask quiet guy is that in the sense we use it here in the USA (Asian = China, Japan, Korea, etc..) Or is this in the sense used in Great Britain (Asian = India, Pakistan, Bengaladesh, Sirilanka)?

 

One of my few experiences with women is with a woman of indo/pakistani origin. The approach I am telling you of here worked. Let me put it this way...the whole time if asked right out we were just friends. Now she has a kid who looks too much like me. In a purely darwinian sense inspite of being 95% about the fellas my approach to women has worked well enough.

[phineas]

Yep, if you make a move on her like that and she freaks out, you'll lose a friend.

 

well, if she knows he's into her & knows the reason he is with her is because he wants more than friendship & she doesn't, she really isn't a very good friend now is she?

[dasein]

well, if she knows he's into her & knows the reason he is with her is because he wants more than friendship & she doesn't, she really isn't a very good friend now is she?

 

Noooo! No, you know it doesn't work that way! That would make her... accountable.

[Mrlonelyone]

Noooo! No, you know it doesn't work that way! That would make her... accountable.

 

I like the way Jack Nicholson put it in "As Good As it Gets".

[Wolf18]

Pushing things to a physical realm when many cues have already been given and received that this is NOT what the girl wants will lose QG a friend, which I believe he wants and needs MORE than he needs to be rejected by someone who he likes to spend time with.

 

I think you know, QG, that she is not looking for a romantic or sexual relationship with you.

 

If you do, it's up to you to decide whether this is okay with you. Do you like spending time with her as companions?

 

Do you feel like she is taking advantage of you at all? Are you the one paying for the dinners, etc., or do you go dutch?

 

From all of your posts, I think you are lonely and this friendly female companionship might be doing more for your quality of life than mustering your nerve to "make a move" on your friend, and then getting rejected and permanently dumped by her, will.

 

It would be better to try to "date" different girls who are not already established as your "friend."

 

For the record - I had a very close guy friend when I was in my 20's. We spent tons of time together. The boundaries of our relationship were well defined. But I guess he had a "crush" or whatever. Sometimes he would (so horribly awkwardly) try to make a move. It was AWFUL. I hated rejecting my good friend, and I felt angry that he was not respectful of the parameters of our relationship. His unwanted moves (and he knew better, too) almost damaged our friendship, which was golden

 

By the way - we are still very close friends now, almost 30 years (marriages, kids, and living in different countries even) later.

 

 

You were angry? Imagine how it feels to be a man with a very close female friend (what can be more perfect than having your good or even best friend be your girlfriend?) that likes you so much to make her one of her best friends (what the media and parents have been telling the young men of my generation is how to get a girl to like you), but still cannot over look whatever physical flaw.

 

It must be pretty bad for you to not want to take such an amazing bond to the next level, and men know this.

 

On to the topic

 

Yep, I was in the same situation as you OP hanging out with a girl I liked for a while, made my moves and she pushed away WHY ARE U DOING THAT OMGZ. My friends all told me when they saw us together that she was into me, nope. Now she's been trying to make me her gay shopping buddy, I told her to go to hell.

 

It's a numbers game, if you want a girlfriend don't waste all your time and energy on one because anything could go wrong or the woman might not have any sexual/romantic interest in you in the first place. Get acquainted with women, but don't ever become the best friend, for the sake of your own manhood.

 

It's an individual preference, but me personally, I don't want to spend all my time and give it my all with a girl just to see her run off with her 65 IQ f*ck buddy afterwards. You know, it's not even about the sex, if a girl wanted to keep her virginity or couldn't have sex with anyone for whatever reason, I would gladly be her best friend, but there is just something so psychologically and spiritually emasculating about being very close to a girl just to see her sleep or lust after some guy who doesn't even try. It's happened to me about 2-3 times in a row, and i'm not going to let it happen again.

[phineas]

Noooo! No, you know it doesn't work that way! That would make her... accountable.

 

Oh, women hate that stuff.

 

I know women who are friends with ex-boyfriends that dumped them for someone else, but when I called them out for leading me on... oh man yrs later their still pissed at me. LOL!

[Mme. Chaucer]

Let me just reiterate that no one said anything about "groping".

 

Holding hands, hugging, an arm around the waist is not groping. I have been groped, I know what it's like.

 

You did, though, advise him to hug her from behind. I promise you that no women I know would be okay with that from anyone who did not have a physical relationship with her already. Receiving an unwanted hug from behind would feel a lot like a big old grope, to me.

 

Personally, I would not want an arm around my waist, unless it was the arm of my boyfriend.

 

FF has the best take on how to introduce touch in a heretofore unphysical relationship, IMO. Easy for the girl to accept, or refuse without resorting to jujitsu.

[OnyxSnowfall]

I'll concede to disliking a man wrap around me from behind who is NOT already my exclusive partner.... heh.... (around the waist and holding hands as well)

 

men who weren't (even when I wasn't dedicated to a relationship) HAVE tried that **** on me, and it didn't really end pretty :o:o

Edited November 2, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall