dasein Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 OMG, you think that is real and she is really enjoying herself? Thanks for making our point for us and providing yourself as an example. In a rush to make your non sequitur, you ignore entirely the point I thought I made quite clearly. It isn't so much whether the portrayal is representative of reality, it is after all ACTING, SHOW BUSINESS, but what it says about the audience's desires, and what motivates the audience. The portrayal in a vast majority of mass market pornography, is of a man's sexual pleasure being subservient to the female's. The moneyshot doesn't "come" until a suitable amount of female pleasure is portrayed. Juxtapose this to the mass humiliation that female characters inflict on male characters in other aspects of the media. Everybody Loves Raymond, or rather, everybody loves seeing Raymond's wife controlling and manipulating Raymond, his mother berating Raymond, Raymond's myriad failings, his father acting like a turd, his brother acting like a clueless dolt. Even supposed exceptions, say 2 1/2 men for example, Charlie Sheen is the "stud," as such he can get away with anything, as long as there is the "schmo" brother in counterpoint who can get away with nothing, and fits more in the typical role of man as woman's pawn. Because women are the primary audience of all these types of shows, not men, comedies, drama, what have you, the logical conclusion is that unlike porn viewing men, who buy into giving the woman pleasure, real or imagined, women's mainstream fantasies about men are much nastier, centering on either complete forgiveness of whatever the "stud" does, or complete domination, manipulation and having it over all the other compartmentalized male roles. Now this is when women aren't indulging in victimization fantasies in entertainment directed at them, a different beast entirely, and responsible for Dr. Phil, most of the programming of the last 30 years on Lifetime, the deluge of true crime reality shows, etc. And to preempt, does this media objectification of men really bother me? It does in an environment when women are constantly shrieking about "objectification this and objectification that" as if it only goes one way in our culture. And especially when women try to shift all cultural blame to men for the culture that WE ALL HAVE A HAND IN. Porn that truly "objectified" women would remove their humanity and the portrayal of such would make their pleasure and HUMAN response completely irrelevant. They would be bound up, treated like animals or things. Does porn like this exist somewhere and have an audience? I imagine it does, but it is far far from mainstream.
GorillaTheater Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I thought Disenchantedly might be Jersey. Hey Jersey.
Floridaman Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 : Originally Posted by AHardDaysNight Like I said before, porn is fantasy. Fake cumshots, fake tits, fake orgasms...pretty much fake everything! But the fact that it's fake doesn't stop men from getting turned on, liking it, and asking their real life partners for things they see in porn. But the women in the porn vids ARE REAL, just like the men viewing the porn. That girl is someone's daughter, whether she willingly engaged in the act on film or not... If porn were all cartoons, maybe that would be better or less harmful...
Author AHardDaysNight Posted November 1, 2011 Author Posted November 1, 2011 FloridaMan is right. That makes me feel crappy. I can see DY's point, but like I said, it's extreme. Just because someone finds a big butt beautiful, doesn't mean they're objectifying women. That's the reason why some women have big butts! But there's a lot of amateur and couple porn out there. What are your thoughts on that, DY?
OnyxSnowfall Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 But the women in the porn vids ARE REAL, just like the men viewing the porn. That girl is someone's daughter, whether she willingly engaged in the act on film or not... If porn were all cartoons, maybe that would be better or less harmful... They're humans, yes. Other aspects are generic, fake, etc.......... but belying it all is indeed a human. Heh.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I thought Disenchantedly might be Jersey. Hey Jersey. Hey. Darn I miss my old name. This new name sucks.
Author AHardDaysNight Posted November 1, 2011 Author Posted November 1, 2011 I've never viewed the porn women as anything other than real women. There might be some guys out there who don't, but I do.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 FloridaMan is right. That makes me feel crappy. I can see DY's point, but like I said, it's extreme. Just because someone finds a big butt beautiful, doesn't mean they're objectifying women. That's the reason why some women have big butts! You don't even know what my point is to claim it's extreme. You haven't been able to say one thing that's true about my point since this discussion took off. I do not think that just because someone finds someone with a big butt beautiful that they are always objectfying women. I think what happens in porn objectifies women. Being visual is a wonderful gift men have. If they use that gift for good, not evil. As a woman, there is something truely fantastic when your man looks at you like your beautiful. I've seen so many men's eyes light up with lust for girls walking by, or ex boyfriends eyes light up for girls in porn and I don't see their eyes light up like that for the women that are with them. That's what is sad. Being visual is this powerful gift men have that can bring a lot of pleasure to him and to a woman. But when we justify the over abuse of "visualness", we aren't doing men or women any good. Yes, men are visual. But that visualness can be used poorly or welly. Men have the ability to make their visualness a positive thing , not a negative. But through things like porn, it's not really a positive thing for women. Because porn isn't really a celebration of women and feminity. But of a cariciture of women. As you said yourself since a lot of the things in porn about women and done to women are fake. But there's a lot of amateur and couple porn out there. What are your thoughts on that, DY? Clearly in purpose and content two people that post a video of them having sex is different then a porn made by the industry that is porn. However, I question how many girls actually know they are posted on a website even iif it's called "amateur"...I also question how much is really that "amateur" and it seems like even in "amateur" porn, there are more young beautiful women then anything else. Not a wide range of women.
GorillaTheater Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 But there's a lot of amateur and couple porn out there. What are your thoughts on that, DY? It's an interesting question. I don't generally have the time or inclination for porn, but on those occasions I do, it's the amateur couples (as in my own age, more or less) stuff that appeals to me. As visual as I am, I still need at least the implication that this is a couple in love, that no one is being exploited, and that they're genuinely enjoying what they're doing. Guess I'm just the sentimental variety of horndog.
ShatteredReality Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Wait a second...Ok I skipped over the 11 pages of this thread cause I just saw it - but you say watching porn doesn't get anybody pregnant??? Tell that to This woman! Just sayin
Author AHardDaysNight Posted November 1, 2011 Author Posted November 1, 2011 Okay, I understand where you're coming from now, Disenchantently. And I agree...it's a shame that men turn to porn, instead of their wives. If I had a girlfriend, I would be turning to her...but since I've always been single, I turn to porn. I have explained this before. Porn is to the single man what beer is to a casual drinker, and is to the man in a relationship what beer is to an alcoholic. I guess what I'm supporting here in this thread is something that many of you can't understand. You don't know what it's like to be involuntarily celibate. You don't know what it's like to be almost 30, and never kissed a girl. Those that try to understand it, explain it away as "well, he's a closeted gay person." Do you realize how insulting that is to a straight man who just doesn't have luck with girls? If I could get an attractive, intelligent, funny, and overall great girl to go out with me, I'd throw away my entire porn collection right now. I'd pitch it all in the Recycle Bin. But since I can't, or haven't yet...am I supposed to go insane while everyone else has sex? Onyx is right, she may be more sexually liberated, but I'm more lonely than she ever could imagine. And I cope with it by watching porn. Sue me.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 The thing is HardDayNight, while I sympathize with your frustration in being a virgin when you want a special woman in your life, spending time with porn is not going to bring you closer to that goal. It might temporarily relieve the preassure but if you invest and redirect that time into things that will actually benefit "you", you might see your luck change when it comes to women.
fortyninethousand322 Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Being visual is a wonderful gift men have. If they use that gift for good, not evil. As a woman, there is something truely fantastic when your man looks at you like your beautiful. I've seen so many men's eyes light up with lust for girls walking by, or ex boyfriends eyes light up for girls in porn and I don't see their eyes light up like that for the women that are with them. That's what is sad. Being visual is this powerful gift men have that can bring a lot of pleasure to him and to a woman. But when we justify the over abuse of "visualness", we aren't doing men or women any good. Yes, men are visual. But that visualness can be used poorly or welly. Men have the ability to make their visualness a positive thing , not a negative. But through things like porn, it's not really a positive thing for women. Because porn isn't really a celebration of women and feminity. But of a cariciture of women. As you said yourself since a lot of the things in porn about women and done to women are fake. I think it's great that you have an opinion about pornography. Now, is it ok if I disagree with it? Or is that not allowed? Clearly in purpose and content two people that post a video of them having sex is different then a porn made by the industry that is porn. However, I question how many girls actually know they are posted on a website even iif it's called "amateur"...I also question how much is really that "amateur" and it seems like even in "amateur" porn, there are more young beautiful women then anything else. Not a wide range of women. Now here's what I don't get. Why do you assume it would be the woman who didn't know she was being filmed and put on a website? How do you know the woman didn't film it and put it on a website against the guy's wishes? Seems like a sexist assumption to me...
Disenchantedly Yours Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Today's installement of porn titles and sarcastic commentary. Today’s word Googled: porn Very first link clicked on: hardcore porn Porn titles found on first page with no special searches done to find it: Two gorgeous women f*ckpounded in their sloppy c*ckh*les (you know..because those holes women have that are part of their bodies are really just meant for c*ck.) No Asian f*ck is through without a sweet creampie (Well of coures not! Everyone knows that about Asian girls...racism much.) Horny little Nikita and Liz find a fat d*ck to slurp (What else would two "little" girls want to slurp on!) A$$ slammed teen gets a goopy facial (That's just what every teenaged girl dreams to happen to her by some gross old guy!) Madison drowns in a f*ckload of j*zz (because what is sexier then a girl dying in a man's jizz. A man gets to nut AND kill a woman off) Dude unleashes a nice load all over nasty little Trinity (Of coures he does.."little" girls love when that happens.) Double c*nts ****ed by a lucky guy (Naturally. Women are just c*nts after all but a guy just gets to be a guy) Crying teen sold for cash (WTF..seriously..WTF. Now it's exy to see young girls cry?) This concludes today's episode Sarcasm on Porn Titles.
Author AHardDaysNight Posted November 1, 2011 Author Posted November 1, 2011 The thing is HardDayNight, while I sympathize with your frustration in being a virgin when you want a special woman in your life, spending time with porn is not going to bring you closer to that goal. It might temporarily relieve the preassure but if you invest and redirect that time into things that will actually benefit "you", you might see your luck change when it comes to women. I am already doing these things. I need to lose weight, so I've gotten on a diet. I need to look older/more masculine, so I am growing a beard. I need to get going with college, so I'm really putting in the effort for this upcoming term. I plan to get a degree, get a good job, and get on with my life. I am not overly concerned with my virgin status anymore - I've waited 29 years, I can wait another 1 or 2 years. But until then, I will use recreational porn. It's called adult entertainment for a reason. And I don't always use porn to masturbate. Sometimes I use my imagination. I agree with Onyx that imagination is a wonderful tool. But when I don't want to either make up an imaginary girl, or think about people I know in real life (which seems creepy to me), I turn to porn.
xxoo Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I also question how much is really that "amateur" and it seems like even in "amateur" porn, there are more young beautiful women then anything else. Not a wide range of women. There is a HUGE range. There really is! There may be more young, beautiful women than anything else, but there are lots of other "types" if you look for it. One silver lining to the explosion of internet porn is that there really IS more choice.
ShatteredReality Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Okay, I understand where you're coming from now, Disenchantently. And I agree...it's a shame that men turn to porn, instead of their wives. If I had a girlfriend, I would be turning to her...but since I've always been single, I turn to porn. I have explained this before. Porn is to the single man what beer is to a casual drinker, and is to the man in a relationship what beer is to an alcoholic. I guess what I'm supporting here in this thread is something that many of you can't understand. You don't know what it's like to be involuntarily celibate. You don't know what it's like to be almost 30, and never kissed a girl. Those that try to understand it, explain it away as "well, he's a closeted gay person." Do you realize how insulting that is to a straight man who just doesn't have luck with girls? If I could get an attractive, intelligent, funny, and overall great girl to go out with me, I'd throw away my entire porn collection right now. I'd pitch it all in the Recycle Bin. But since I can't, or haven't yet...am I supposed to go insane while everyone else has sex? Onyx is right, she may be more sexually liberated, but I'm more lonely than she ever could imagine. And I cope with it by watching porn. Sue me. About the bolded - you say that now...most men will toss it for awhile or leave it for a bit, but ultimately they go back to it. For the variety or what have you. If you find yourself a woman who is fine with it then you're golden. But the way our society runs, men who look tend to want to touch and if they continue to look and allow themselves to want to touch, they eventually will. Same goes for a woman...if she's constantly looking at someone other than her SO - thinking of some other hottie while she rubs one out - she may eventually find herself generally discontented at home. This can and often does lead to affairs. So if you find a girl who is as into porn as you are, or doesn't take it as a sign that you're dissatisfied with her (which is not "just her problem" to deal with - it becomes your problem also), then you're fine to keep the porn. But if you find yourself dating a girl who is not into porn at all and finds it degrading as many women do - then you need to weigh your priorities. When you're in a relationship there are some areas where What's important to her should be important to you too. Anything you do to strike against her self image or self worth will ultimately make you suffer in the end. It's definitely something you want to get each others views on early on.
Author AHardDaysNight Posted November 1, 2011 Author Posted November 1, 2011 I go to a streaming porn site, and search for "blowjob", "footjob", or other similar titles. I don't see stuff like that on my streaming porn site. Not everyone is googling porn. Some find a place that has it, streaming, and just enter one keyword...and then find someone they fancy.
fortyninethousand322 Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 About the bolded - you say that now...most men will toss it for awhile or leave it for a bit, but ultimately they go back to it. For the variety or what have you. If you find yourself a woman who is fine with it then you're golden. But the way our society runs, men who look tend to want to touch and if they continue to look and allow themselves to want to touch, they eventually will. Same goes for a woman...if she's constantly looking at someone other than her SO - thinking of some other hottie while she rubs one out - she may eventually find herself generally discontented at home. This can and often does lead to affairs. So if you find a girl who is as into porn as you are, or doesn't take it as a sign that you're dissatisfied with her (which is not "just her problem" to deal with - it becomes your problem also), then you're fine to keep the porn. But if you find yourself dating a girl who is not into porn at all and finds it degrading as many women do - then you need to weigh your priorities. When you're in a relationship there are some areas where What's important to her should be important to you too. Anything you do to strike against her self image or self worth will ultimately make you suffer in the end. It's definitely something you want to get each others views on early on. I don't know, I'm with AHDN. I would never watch porn ever again if I had a girlfriend (who was actually having sex with me of course). Heck, I'd probably give up porn just to be able to kiss a girl.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I go to a streaming porn site, and search for "blowjob", "footjob", or other similar titles. I don't see stuff like that on my streaming porn site. Not everyone is googling porn. Some find a place that has it, streaming, and just enter one keyword...and then find someone they fancy. Oh so goggling something so broad and general like "porn" and seeing the first things crop up are naturally going to be more explotive then googling specfic fetishes? Come on. My point is that I am not even looking hard for this stuff. My google word is so general. I click on the very first link and look at the very first page and all this demeaning crap comes up.
TheBigQuestion Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I love it. I open up to you about something in my personal life on a topic to show some raw honesty in an issue a lot of women have to deal with, which is the topic of this thread, and all you can talk about is you and your girlfriend and how wronged you've been. You can't say one thing about the actual topic at hand. This topic isn't your sounding board for all the ways you feel wronged by me. If you have an issue with me, private message me. But don't run around the board making ridiculous childish attacks in every thread you can beause o your passive aggressive misdirected anger. Again, this thread is't about you. You sure worked up enough energy to talk about yourself alot. Couldn't muster up much in being real towar the subject. Funny that. I, like many long-time posters here, have already discussed my views on the subject of porn when you were still known as Jersey Shortie. If you really want me to dig up those threads so you can see what I think, I will. I know for a fact that you and I had words about it before. You make no new points now that you didn't make back then, so I don't see the need to give myself carpal tunnel syndrome over it. I was sincere when I said that I appreciated your moment of honesty and vulnerability. You're the one who is taking my appreciation as an insult. Keep talking about misplaced anger. You're the one who has mentioned how outraged you are by what people here say, you're the one using phrases like "don't you dare," you're the one who spends what looks like entire days writing long diatribes about the subject. You're the one who is angry. You're also probably the most easily offended poster on LS. I thought I was long-winded, but compared to you, I am "The Old Man and the Sea" and you are "Atlas Shrugged." Based on your reactions to what people say here (expressing outrage at every turn), I firmly believe that you take the internet too seriously. It's the internet. Lighten up.
Author AHardDaysNight Posted November 1, 2011 Author Posted November 1, 2011 Blonde teen gives blowjob Brunette girl gives footjob and gets cum on her feet Hot teen gets anal These are the things I see when I look at the headers on my streaming porn site. They aren't consistent with what you're seeing. Now you're probably looking at some foreign website that's not even made in America, that is infected with viruses and spyware. Those sites are a dime a dozen, and they do contain titles like you're mentioning.
fortyninethousand322 Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 My point is that I am not even looking hard for this stuff. My google word is so general. I click on the very first link and look at the very first page and all this demeaning crap comes up. That's unfortunate. But hardly an indictment of the entire concept of pornography. When I google "guns" a bunch of stuff involving gun trafficking and criminal activity comes up. Does that mean firearm ownership is inherently bad?
Author AHardDaysNight Posted November 1, 2011 Author Posted November 1, 2011 Why are so many of your responses angry, Disenchantedly/Jersey? Who hurt you so badly, that you have to rage at a bunch of anonymous posters on an internet forum? Oh, and some of the responses you've personally said to ME, including that one response where you said that I looked at women as just female body parts, was angry and defensive. I defended myself, but aside from that one thread (that I regret making), I didn't get angry. If I need therapy to get over my porn addiction, if I have one, you need therapy to get over your hatred of men.
OnyxSnowfall Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I don't know, I'm with AHDN. I would never watch porn ever again if I had a girlfriend (who was actually having sex with me of course). Heck, I'd probably give up porn just to be able to kiss a girl. I agree with Shattered. Until you've actually been in a relationship and have tested whether or not you will struggle with "regressing" back into porn --- you don't really know. It's just an untested claim. Some men enmesh themselves / their pleasure centers with porn unwittingly. And apparently men do "crave" variety, and men may "justify" revisiting porn if there are other issues within their relationship --- ones they're definitely not anticipating while in the throes of pining for one. But a relationship will not "fix" someone's problems, they can in fact compound them.... I do think being interested in porn will exclude you from the pool of women who are against it, but there are indeed women are not.......... still, the former is more likely to give an inexperienced older man a chance than the latter, heh. A man that "values" sex, believes it to be "special" etc and doesn't succumb to pornography is smexy IMO... don't care if he's a virgin or not, heh. There may be women who like porn or who are indifferent to it that see things similarly, but eh....... there's something intrinsic about the two associations.
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