An argument for porn (the other side)

[Wolf18]

I can't believe you actually like to put your mouth on people's anus'.

 

I think you need some shock therapy to get you out of that filthy habit, Onyx . I just had a Burger King rodeo burger and a 6 pack of Pabst blue ribbon, I dare you to lick my ass.

[OnyxSnowfall]

HPV is by and large, a very mild "STD". It's being trumped up because big pharm wants to sell its vaccination. Nobody doubts that you can catch STD's through vaginal sex if you're promiscuous and not careful.

 

It's possible, however, my mother had HPV cervical cancer years back and I've known a couple of other women who've been diagnosed with it (I suppose it's also possible the "type" was misdiagnosed / lied about too, perhaps to propagate the image in hopes of making more money hmm? Heh) --- one woman in particular was not promiscuous, she slept with one man and was diagnosed during their marriage (HE however was promiscuous, unbeknownst to her... I guess trusting your spouse is not being careful though ... .......).

 

I'm sorry Onyx if you can't fathom why I think anus' are dirtier than vagina's, then we're speaking on two way different wavelengths. I'm of the old fashioned line of thinking that says that your hiney is for waste disposal. Nothing about a woman taking a **** turns me on whatsoever, and I certainly don't want to be upturning mud all over the place with my tusk like a boar on a rainy day in alabama.

 

Meh, I myself do not think a vagina is innately anywhere near as "dirty" as a rectum --- I'm just stating that anal sex *can* be a safe practice, while vaginal sex *can* be a dangerous one.

 

And it's okay if anal sex repulses you (I just personally happen to enjoy it... and as a female )

[OnyxSnowfall]

I can't believe you actually like to put your mouth on people's anus'.

 

I think you need some shock therapy to get you out of that filthy habit, Onyx . I just had a Burger King rodeo burger and a 6 pack of Pabst blue ribbon, I dare you to lick my ass.

 

:lmao:

 

That wouldn't deter me none ---- dingle-berries, flourishing and marinating the hairs of the anus (or squished in the little stained wrinkles, moles of the "puckered brown eye")... in all of their fecal horrors and putrid perfumes, don't either

 

Not on peoples though! Just one persons, lol. The power of love

 

I could use some shock therapy for some other issues though.

Edited November 1, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall

[AHardDaysNight]

Wow Onyx, that is pretty extreme! Not to say bad - I don't think people's bedroom habits are any business of mine.

 

Anyway, I'm just surprised that a girl like you, into all that stuff, would be against men watching porn.

[oaks]

STD's are a factor but if you inspect the person first (for warts) and wear a condom, you'll be fine.

 

Please never give advice on safe sex ever again.

[AHardDaysNight]

Please never give advice on safe sex ever again.

 

I agree.

 

Wolf, there are pamphlets out there on safe sex. Perhaps you should read them?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I don't use porn. Porn has the potential to cause damage to relationships, but then again so does most any other habit, buying too many expensive shoes for example, eating too many cheeseburgers with onions, too much video gaming, having cleanliness compulsions or germ phobias, cellphone addiction. We don't single out every prospective cause of stress in a relationship that originates in the behavior or habit of one or both partners. Why not?

 

Because the nature of porn and sexuality and the dynamcis that play out in porn that you don't find from eating too many cheeseburgers. Eating cheeseburgers is asexual. What goes on in porn is a commentary on sexuality and relationships between men and women. That reason alone proves why it's a more sensitive subject.

 

 

Somehow men don't get as bent out of shape about things like bachelor auctions, most eligible lists, the literal sea of celebrity worship in our media and the fashion industry that fosters unrealistic expectations in women in exactly the same way that porn fosters unrealistic expectations in men. I guess the "height threads" are an exception admittedly, but the men who start and participate in those are keelhauled here, so it's different.

 

Bachelor auctions tend to be charity events. Since historically men were not as objectified sexually as women are, it makes it a lark to have a bachelor charity auction where if it was a bacherolette charity auction, it already rings more true to sexism that women have and still encounter to this day.

 

Every year Askmen.com lists the 100 most beautiful women in the world. A list of young hot celebrities that men want to bang.

 

I do agree that celebrity worship is a huge issue and I am annoyed that women like Kim Kradashian can become famous for nothing more then her looks and being silly. I think female following of celebrity news is a big issue.

 

But at the end of the day, I think we can agree that men have a leg up in the objectification of women for sexuality then the reverse.

 

 

Women complain that porn gives men unrealistic expectations about real women, then blithely choose a 6'4" man with a six pack who is "cut" like a model (just like they see in the tabloids and fashion marketing) to have as FWB or NSA, oblivious to the fact that that model height, protruding abdominal muscles and < 10% body fat are every bit as unnatural as gigantic perfectly shaped firm breasts on a woman with a tiny waist if not moreso.

 

I am not particularly turned on by ripped men. I have been attracted to al lbody types. Short, fat, tall, athletic...bald..yada yada.

 

Women willingly chase after and SHARE these few men with other women, hoping to win the lottery one day by snagging a man far far above them in physical attractiveness and value in the dating market. Then they denounce the men who get left out of the musical chair game for using porn... hilarious in the irony and hypocrisy.

 

I don't share my man with other women. I am not intersted in some Peacock like man that struts around with his feathers displayed. I like my men less girly.

 

So before anyone waves the "holier than thou" flag about porn, they need to examine their own preferences, behavior, sexual habits, and the porn equivalents that they consume, respond to and are manipulated by. IMO most women who complain about porn use, unless they are personally experiencing trying to have a relationship with a porn addict, need to get off their high horse. Porn allows many men who are left out of the dating game in a way the average woman will never understand an outlet. Why is that a bad thing?

 

Because porn isn't kind to women. It's not evey really about rael female pleasure. And single men are not the only ones using porn. Millions of men in relationships are using it too. And usually the women in porn are an ideal about what men want women to be that it leaves no room for real women to be real with their partner and explore their sexuality with vulnerability and sincerity.

[Floridaman]

Because porn isn't kind to women. It's not evey really about rael female pleasure.

 

And single men are not the only ones using porn.

Millions of men in relationships are using it too.

 

And usually the women in porn are an ideal about what men want women to be that it leaves no room for real women to be real with their partner and explore their sexuality with vulnerability and sincerity.

Well stated.

[TheBigQuestion]

I'm so sorry, I just never understood the argument that the anus is for penetration that sodomites make... I mean Buttslamming-Americans (I'm sure butt pirates will soon be a protected minority in America).

 

Maybe you ought to actually try it out with a real life girl instead of going by the interviews Seymour Butts in his auditions and see if it hurts. They do it only because men pressure them or because they are perverts themselves who get off on being violated in unnatural ways.

 

Did you know women can orgasm from a myriad of different things? Even men if you havent changed your oil in a while. Just because some people get off on getting it in an area that's clearly not meant for sex doesn't make it legitimate or any less repulsive. Some sickos can probably orgasm from nailing their penis to a chopping block , do you see any big deal in that?

 

Evidence that the anus isn't for "sex" (sodomy isn't even sex) is the myriad of illnesses and conditions that come from practicing it. Men who like to sodomize things probably have a marked homosexual streak, no surprise considering the average modern American man is a ****ing panty-waist.

 

I actually have tried it with a "real life girl." On top of that, there are legitimate physiological reasons why someone would find the buttsecks pleasurable. It's not just some strange paraphilia the way you make it out to be.

 

So the average American man is a panty-waist, and enjoying anal sex means you're gay, even if you're doing it with a woman? Interesting. I'd love to see some theoretical or empirical basis for that assertion that you didn't just make up yourself.

 

And what exactly makes you so tough? Aren't you the guy whose sole purpose for posting on this board is to talk about how you feel slighted by the female gender because your appearance isn't exactly ideal, how you're always friend-zoned, how at one point you were ripped and got girls but now you're not ripped and now you don't get girls? That doesn't exactly speak to the fortitude of your character, dear boy.

[AHardDaysNight]

I'm against anal, because I find poop disgusting, and find it unsanitary.

 

Doesn't mean that I'm critical of those who don't find it disgusting. It's just not for me.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

TheBigQuestion

For a very long time, there were no threads at all on this particular subsection of LS that had long, drawn out discussions about porn and its negative effects. I assume that Disenchantedly Yours is the same person that used to post here around 18 months ago known as "Jersey Shortie." Both posters had an obsession with the "degrading" nature of porn and a tendency towards misspelling the simplest of words and otherwise butchering the English language. It's no coincidence that upon her return, male porn use has once again become the hot topic du jour.

 

You are one snarky piece of work BigQuestion. I'd be able to respect you if you addressed the topic and left out the Mean-Girls-Lindsey Lohan attitude you've adopted so well. I think you got a secret crush on me personally. By the way, you'll notice that the people that started the porn threads were not by me or "Jersey Shortie". But I guess it's fun for you to repetitively put down other posters regardless. Despite whatever spelling or typing defects I have, and heck I do own them, I’m still one intelligent chicka.

 

Even if that assumption is wrong, it doesn't make her contributions to this forum any less ridiculous. See, for example, every time she accused my girlfriend of being manipulated or naive just because the circumstances under which we "courted" did not involve me spending much money on her before mutual commitment.

 

The world isn't all about you. No one in this thread cares about your girlfriend and who does or doesn't pay. You often slip into other threads and start talking about how you've been "wronged" by other posters. You aren't that important BigQuestion.

 

I can tell you how this movie is going to end. DY will continue to make completely unfounded inferences from any statement a male makes that disagrees with her position.[/quote

 

It seems like this board is split on porn use. Where some men and women disagree with it and some men and women agree with it. It's a passionate topic because the nature of sexuality and relationships between the genders.

 

She has and will continue to spew utterly illogical drivel such as saying "You think all women are just garbage!!!!!!!11!!!" to any male who defends his own porn use.

 

I never once said a to a specific male poster that he thinks women are garbage.

 

I will say that when it comes to something like porn where it's all about the verbal and phyiscal sexual abuse of women, very little of it having to do with real pleasure, real emotion and real respect of women, it's just logical to see how often porn demonizes women. Perhaps porn wouldn't be so bad if it took an honest stab at real mutual pleasure. If the women weren't all 18 with fake boobs. If men where looking at women their own age and *really* celebrating women. Not celebrating a prescribed belief about women and their bodies sold to them about how women need to look at act just to get used like a toy. But that's not the kind of porn that is out there. That's not the kind of porn men want. What does that say about how men see women on some level? A level I am sure they don't share with the women in their real lives.

 

A handful of female and maybe one or two male posters will agree with her position. A majority of LS posters from both genders will ignore the porn threads like the plague because the discussion has been done to death.

 

Then ignore the thread BigQuestion. Oh..no you can't do that because you got to come here and instead of actually add to the actual topic and debate, attack other posters like you were really a 14 year old high school girl.

 

There's even a chance that some anti-porn females will decide that her argumentation is just too shrill and hysterical to be taken seriously. Eventually, the threads will die, people will stop listening, and DY will scurry back to whatever cave she was hibernating in all this time.

 

You're a trip BigQuestion. If your going to attempt to put someone down at least do it directly to them instead of this passive aggressive childish way where you address the board pretending your saying anything of any importance.

 

In the last few days I've received a number of private emails where people say they agree with what I'm saying. From men and from women .

 

 

I give her credit though, because she both directly and indirectly admits that her internet anti-porn crusade is largely motivated by her own insecurities. I can understand that, and I sympathize. What I cannot understand is her (or anyone's) style of argumentation, or her complete unwillingness to see past her insecurity.

 

Now this just pisses me off because it's a gross and narrow minded attempt to misrepresent what I stand for when it's clear you have no idea.

 

Now I am a human being and I certainly don't deny having insecurities. It would be untrue to say that I don’t and I try to be as honest as I can in any discussion I have. We all got them anyway. If I'm more honest about that then most, so be it. But lets not pretend that porn use by men is about how secure men are in their sexuality. It's not. Infact, a number of men use porn because of their own insecurities about their ability to perform and interact with real women.

 

Lets also take a look at the things in porn that are over dramatized that give us a window into a slew of male insecurities. All the men in porn satisfy the women no matter what he is doing. He could be punching her in the face and she would still moan like it was the best punching in the face she ever got. He doesn't have to have any actual skill in interacting with a woman sexually for her to be pretending that it's just so wonderful. Most of the men in porn rule the roast. They have the power. The women happily bend over and grab their ankles and her thoughts, feelings or pleasure don't really have to be considered when she's just so darn happy to please him. It’s all about female vulnerability while men have to give very little of themselves in return for getting the sex. Male porn use isn't about male being secure and confident in themselves. Male porn use isn't even about adopting healthy sexual attitudes toward women.

 

Now I don't deny my insecurities. What I deny is this idea that men are allowed to wallow in their insecurities and project images of women that are unreal and act like women should be made of tougher stuff then men are demanding of themselves. The reality is no real woman can compete with 8 million different uploaded pages of porn content of every type of woman out there doing every type of sexual act. Which is why men are brining stuff in the bedroom that use to not be considered “normal”. I think it’s unfair to sit there and defend why men are turned on by porn, why they have a hormonal reaction to it, but then tell women their hormonal reaction to it, if not sexual, is “bad” or “wrong” or just “insecure”. Just as porn is a simulation of a sexual experience that turns men on, it can also be a simulation of a man’s interest in seeing other women have sex. And that is a natural and biological threat to a woman in a relationship with a man. Now we all KNOW that he isn’t leaving his gf/wife for some porn girl. Just like we all KNOW that the sex going on in the movie isn’t real. But just because a man logically understand that a porn is fantasy, it doesn’t stop him from having a physical reaction to it. Vilifying women that have the same kind of biological response, even if it’s not rooted in sexual feelings, goes against everything you claim you understand about porn as a man.

 

Now while I admit to my insecurities as a woman about my own body, I try hard to work on them. I do my best to take care of myself the best i can and I try to fight through media standards about what my body should be. But I can’t do that alone. I can’t be in a relationship with a man that buys into the ideas the media is selling to him about women’s bodies while I try to fight them. I can’t be vulnerable with such a man because if he is buying into those messages, then he is part of the problem i strive hard to over come about my own body.

 

I will tell you a little something about myself and hopefully you will take from it with the vulnerability to which it is offered. I am rather small chested. My mother is not. It appears that my small breasts come from the women on my father’s side. When I was younger, before porn became the tidal wave it is today, I was quite happy with my body. I didn’t mind my small breasts. They were just me. As I got older, I became more familiar with the things boys/men looked at and that they were attracted to through media about women. I went through a period where I watched porn because I wanted to know what men liked and I wanted to be what men liked. I wanted to make my guy happy and be his fantasy. Is that so bad? I would imitate things from porn with very little regard to my own pleasure because what I really wanted was a man to like/love me most of all. And since in porn, the image is projected that male pleasure is always first, I ate that material up and projected it into my real life. When I became more familiar with the kind of material men liked, I grew more dissatisfied with my own body. I was nothing like the kind of women men dreamed of. My breasts weren’t like those. Clearly my breasts where not good enough. When I became more familiar with what men wanted through male centric media, i grew to learn that me being a sweet, regular, decent looking girl wasn’t enough. So I engaged in more sexual acts with my guy so i could over compensate. But it never stopped him from looking at porn of busty women. I learned my lesson early on. I only became unhappy with my body after seeing what men really wished me to be. men didn’t want me to just be men. They wanted me to be a fantasy. In the bedroom I got compliments from acting more pornish. Not for acting more like just regular me. It wasn’t good enough to be in bed with just me. Most men seem to need a porn fantasy of a woman.

 

I am older now. I still struggle with body image issues but I do my best to accept my body as it is. I will never get breast implants because I hate the message sold to women that what makes them worthwhile are their body parts. But I can’t fight that message alone. I need a man on my side that wants to fight that message too. Who doesn’t want to buy into the messages sold to him about women’s looks while he tells me I need to be above it. That’s not right. And that’s what often happens with porn. Men expect women to be above the messages sold about them about their bodies through porn while men indulge in them lustfully. And that’s unfair. It’s not suppose to bother women that their men are looking at all these young, beautiful , busty, enhanced girls. But men are allowed to wallow around in them. And women are expected to rise about that and not be bothered by it while men are deeply affected by it through their fantasy. How is that fair? or right? When do real women get stood up for?

 

Oh and lastly on the subject of insecurity. I am fully able to have the insecurities I do and STILL believe porn to be harmful in it’s output of women. These two facets are not mutually exclusive where if I am insecure, it’s only about my insecurity. It’s not fun seeing women called every name in the book. It’s not fun to see women spit on or choked. It’s not fun to see that the only women men consider worthy of their attention are 18 year olds with implants. These are not positive for me as a woman. Clearly they don’t matter to you because it’s not your gender being called names and put into a second class citizen position. But it matters to me as a woman. Seeing really great men waste their time on porn. Seeing really great men with wonderful women that love them project the message they are about women and their worth. Men are so much better then that.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Well stated.

 

Thanks Floridaman. I don't even think porn makes sex fun. Sex is suppose to be relaxed and enjoyable with an expression of love between two people. But with porn its all ike "yeah take that b*tch" and meanwhile she's like, "oh yes oh yes please hurt me I'm so worthless". She might as well be saying that.

 

I don't understand how regular men expect regular girls to be open and vunerable with them when men buy into these media images of women that don't really help women be real in their own sexuality as just regular girls. If porn celebrated women being true to themselves and really enjoying sex, maybe it woudl be different. But in porn you got to be smokin hot, with perfect bodies, young and do al lkines of sexual tricks to make a man interested enough to have sex with you. It's so much unrealistic pressure. HOw are women suppose to be real with guys that are buying into really tough and unrealistic media messages of them?

[TheBigQuestion]

I read your entire novel. I admit that I don't have the energy to respond tit for tat, so I'll just say this. I'm glad you're brave enough to admit that your insecurity plays a role in your anti-porn crusade. With that said, you still continue to misrepresent and exaggerate, much like I predicted you would in my original post which addressed you. I cited the example about myself not because I believe the whole message board should be about me, but rather to exemplify that when it suits your purpose, you will insist on a line of thinking that is either completely untrue or makes absolutely no sense. In your previous interactions with me, you just could not get it through your skull that just because I "courted" my girlfriend without spending money on her (which is something she was accustomed to in the past) did not mean that I had somehow manipulated her into it. You were so committed to your own viewpoint that you basically insulted the intelligence and emotional maturity of someone you've never met, whether you realize it not.

 

Also, please cite any thread, other than this one, in which I go into it and complain about how I've been "wronged" by other posters. Apparently I do it really often so it shouldn't be too hard to find on your part.

Edited November 1, 2011 by TheBigQuestion

[Floridaman]

I will tell you a little something about myself and hopefully you will take from it with the vulnerability to which it is offered. I am rather small chested. .

 

Let me tell you something about my preferences, from a guy's viewpoint.

 

Have never gone for the really "voluptous" women.

Of course, I notice womens' breasts but never let a woman's physical attributes determine whether I wanted to pursue a relationship with a woman.

 

There's a 21 y.o. virgin woman here on LS I PM who feels she's small in stature, "plain," thin and small-chested. She tells me she feels she doesnt have "anything to offer" a guy, as many of her female friends are attractive or have big boobs.

 

I argue otherwise and tell her looks aren't everything and she should believe the guy she's dating when he tells her he won't "tire" of her. She says she told him she fears he may look to other women, as she doesn't think she's "attractive enough."

 

If I viewed too much porn when I was single (yes, I viewed magazines), could see how that might have changed my perspective.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Floridaman

[Metis]

As if there are things that aren't already banned? Heh.

 

Not on the basis of content alone, no.

 

Most advertising is bull ****, btw.

So? I see no harm in letting people watch bull****, if they so desire. Unless we are talking fraud, actual physical coercion, or exploitation of minors, the government shouldn't be in the business of determining what is or isn't bull**** and what adult minds can or cannot handle. Edited November 1, 2011 by Metis

[Metis]

Oh please woman, this is just stranger danger paranoia. The whole date-rape via GHB thing is mostly urban legend (most "date rapes" happen with plain ol alcohol), STD's are a factor but if you inspect the person first (for warts) and wear a condom, you'll be fine. You can't post porn on youtube, and unless the guy you pick up is some frat boy (wouldn't surprise me judging from the guys women surround at the bar), he's not going to blabber about it in public.

 

You miss the point. The danger of any of this happening may be small, but it's still greater than the dangers of masturbating to porn. And -- I knew someone who got raped after being drugged so no, it's not an urban legend.

 

All I'm saying is that if I was a woman and could get late by who ever and when ever I want I would think porn is a waste.

There is no woman in the world that could get laid by whomever and whenever she wants. Even the most beautiful of us are not THAT powerful. Once again, between a stranger in a bar and a pornographic image, the latter is definitely safer.

 

Yeah, and what happens when a girl I thought was relationship material asks me to put a fist in her ass. Everything people do as "individuals" can have social consequences, porn is pure poison to be honest. Its decreased the libido of men (fast moving sexual images increase the tolerance in your brain to fill with dopamine, so it takes a lot more stimulus to become aroused by a woman), it's made both men and women into degenerates who would probably make Caligula blush, and it has sexualized the culture to no avail.

That's not how the human mind works. I'd venture a guess that since you are straight, no amount of gay porn will make you want to blow a guy, would it? People like what they like. Some porn can give people ideas about what might be enjoyable; some porn represents what they may like to watch and/or fantasize about, but not necessarily do; some porn may be completely unerotic. You grossly exaggerate the suggestive power of porn, and its ability to radically change people's preferences. If your girl wants you to put a fist in her ass, she probably has a long history of anal retentiveness (I mean that literally, not metaphorically), and would get off on that stuff regardless of what she saw in a video.

 

As for decreasing the libidos of men -- and I assume you are referring to the latest studies out of Japan here -- I think that has more to do with a culture that asserts that women find (or are obligated to find) sex painful, degrading and unenjoyable.

 

I'm not going to argue that you should only do vanilla missionary, but when you're dreaming about getting gang banged and bukkake'd , I don't think any logical man would want you as a wife.

Here is the thing, Wolf. I take it you haven't been in a truly intimate long-term relationship, so I think you may find this information useful in the future. Fantasies are private, and they are meant to stay private. For normal people, fantasies are a completely separate world from reality, and do not represent an actual desire to replicate the same thing in real life. In fact, people who are honest with themselves about their sexuality know that there is no surer way to destroy a fantasy than sharing it and then trying to re-enact it in real life; and they have a pretty clear idea of what works in one's mind and what works in the bedroom.

 

Now. If you ever find yourself in one of those intimate, long-term relationships, remember that there are boundaries even in those. Every person is entitled to some autonomy and privacy, at the very least in his or her own mind. Unless it visibly interferes with sex life, a "logical" man isn't entitled to know what his wife is fantasizing about when she's in the shower, and she is not entitled to know what he is thinking about when he's in the shower.

 

And what you don't know -- and isn't even real -- can't hurt you.

 

LOL! The first amendment? I pass the first amendment over my balls. It's a hollow concept that applies to everyone except the normal people. Yeah, you can make a video where you sh*t in someone's mouth and sell it to deviants for profit, but where is the First Amendment when you want to make politically incorrect comments about one of America's sacred cows? your first amendment goes out the damn window:

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/l-a-teacher-loses-job-over-saying-zionist-jews-need-to-be-run-out-of-this-country/

 

http://www.examiner.com/libertarian-in-national/gay-advocates-want-nj-teacher-fired-for-anti-gay-facebook-postings

That's only because you don't understand the First Amendment. The First Amendment does not guarantee you freedom from consequences. It does not guarantee you employment, an affirmation of your views, or safety from criticism. But it certainly applies to outright banning something just because you find it distasteful.

 

I've never been coddled and my parents aren't do-gooders. In fact, I've been around the block, done the drugs, had the sex, been in jail, drank the liquor (still do it), I've done all the "enlightening" things do-gooders would look down on. I still do some of them. Last thing I am, in fact, is a damn do-gooder.

Actually, Wolf, my definition of a do-gooder is someone who thinks he knows more than anyone else should; and that everyone else ought to live less freely and enjoyably than he has. I think it fits quite nicely here.

 

However, you don't need to be a do-gooder to realize that sticking your penis in a place where feces comes out is disgusting. Would you share a drink with someone who had dog **** for breakfast? So why would you want to share anything with someone who does ass-to-mouth? You don't need to be a puritan to realize that anyone who enjoys men lining up to blow their yogurt on her face one after the other has a few screws loose. And one definitely doesn't have to be a do-gooder to realize that someone whose into getting gang banged is unfit to raise my (and anyone elses) future children, and completely unworthy of respect.

Not all pornography involves coprophilia.

Not everyone who watches ANY kind of pornography is into coprophilia.

Not everyone who enjoys watching images of gang bangs is "into getting gang banged".

The type of secret sexual fantasies that a person has has no bearing on her fitness to raise children or her entitlement to respect.

 

I suppose you have a right to be as sick and degenerated as you want, my gripe is with people like you who try to justify it as normal . It isn't, and pornography (combined with all the idle time the average person has) unlocks parts of the human mind (people who eat toilet paper, cross dressers, fans of bukkake) that we would be better off without.

My point, Wolf, is that YOU don't get to decide for others what's normal in consensual adult interaction, based on your own aesthetic and sexual preferences. As for unlocking the "wrong" parts of the human mind -- I see it as less of a problem than what you suggest, using the coercive power of the State to shut people minds down. (But not yours, of course.)

 

And not to blow your mind, but there is a WIDE range of opinion on what people consider normal. Most people would probably say oral sex is plain-vanilla, yet you see to think that any woman who puts her mouth there isn't worthy to raise children or be treated with respect. Methinks, this is actually a fringe position.

[dasein]

Orly?

 

Agreed, have met many women in my travels who seek out different kinds of sex behaviors thought perverse in the mainstream. Would estimate 30% of women I've been with have brought up anal and/or light bondage humiliation, dom/sub, biting, after a certain point with no prompting from me at all. I just attribute it to jaded boredom due to American women being so ridiculously oversexed today. It usually starts out with the line "did you know that there are lots of nerve endings in and around the anus?" LOL. Talk about subtletly.

[dasein]

Because the nature of porn and sexuality and the dynamcis that play out in porn that you don't find from eating too many cheeseburgers. Eating cheeseburgers is asexual. What goes on in porn is a commentary on sexuality and relationships between men and women. That reason alone proves why it's a more sensitive subject.

 

Rationalization that ignores my main point, I could have listed sexually related relationship stressors that don't cause the uproar porn use does. And the difference between those and porn is those other stressors occur directly in the sex act with one's partner, porn usually does not in cases where one partner doesn't like porn.

 

Restating, porn gets more negative attention because it threatens women in their wheelhouse, controlling men through sexual power, they window dress with sexist and objectification camouflauge. Same as prostitution, focusing on the tiny sex slave trade as opposed to the vast majority of women who do it because it is an easier way to make money than other methods. It's all about female power and sexual currency and threats to it.

 

Bachelor auctions tend to be charity events. Since historically men were not as objectified sexually as women are, it makes it a lark to have a bachelor charity auction where if it was a bacherolette charity auction, it already rings more true to sexism that women have and still encounter to this day.

 

Double rationalization. Charitable intent is irrelevant, as is any supposed past "objectification" of women. Women spend 50% of their time turning themselves into sex objects and the other 50% of their time whining about being perceived as sex objects. But then again, inconsistency has never been perceived as a logical flaw by the female mind for some unknown reason.

 

But whatever, there are just as many cultural forces at play objectifying men as there are women if not moreso.

 

Every year Askmen.com lists the 100 most beautiful women in the world. A list of young hot celebrities that men want to bang.

 

Every DAY some tabloid, tv show, website, magazine objectifies men by focusing on the celebrity fantasies that the female audience of such can't get enough of. If it doesn't describe you, so what? someone is buying, consuming and being manipulated by all that garbage, someone is sitting up fawning on royal weddings, millionaire matchmaker. It doesn't matter one whit whether it's YOU personally. An thanks for the partial agreement, it is refreshing here.

 

But at the end of the day, I think we can agree that men have a leg up in the objectification of women for sexuality then the reverse.

 

It's more overt, will give you that. There's not much arguing with the image of a naked woman. But more pervasive and accepted in mainstream culture? Not a chance. I have sat and listened to women I love and respect (otherwise) carry on about the earning power of particular men ad nauseam, many many times. Men are objectified more, the locus of the objectification is merely different. I can turn on any tv show, commercial, and find men compartmentalized into the roles of "pervert," "buffoon," "abuser," "crooked businessman," and "stud (with all sorts of nice white knight qualities)," while simultaneously observing women portrayed as "savvy," "powerful," "wise and all-knowing," "persevering and soulful." There are exceptions but exceptions do not change the mean. Who is the audience for all this? Hardly any men watch the crap any more.

 

I am not particularly turned on by ripped men. I have been attracted to al lbody types. Short, fat, tall, athletic...bald..yada yada.

 

Your personal outlier sensibilities are as irrelevant as mine are. When we are talking porn and objectification generally, we are talking mainstream, not outliers.

 

I don't share my man with other women. I am not intersted in some Peacock like man that struts around with his feathers displayed. I like my men less girly.

 

Good for you, I don't use porn, once more both of our personal leanings are irrelevant to the general mainstream.

 

Because porn isn't kind to women. It's not evey really about rael female pleasure.

 

All that moaning, shaking and squirting put on and made up then? I think not, and if the intent was to portray women in pain as opposed to pleasure generally, women who don't enjoy the money shot in the face, then why isn't it portrayed as such? Why is the man's pleasure generally subsidiary to the woman's in most porn? Why isn't abusive, raw exploitation the mainstream? I think it's a good thing that "getting a woman off" and making her feel good is the ostensible focus of most porn men consume, don't you? After all it could be otherwise. Just as tv is full of women humiliating, manipulating, and controlling men at work, home, elsewhere, porn could be full of the same. It's not.

 

And single men are not the only ones using porn. Millions of men in relationships are using it too. And usually the women in porn are an ideal about what men want women to be that it leaves no room for real women to be real with their partner and explore their sexuality with vulnerability and sincerity.

 

Just as likely that if the woman is open to it, the porn could encourage exploration, vulnerability, sensuality. It's in the attitude, not the medium itself. OTOH there's really no healthy way to view the domination fantasies the media feeds women.

[norajane]

All that moaning, shaking and squirting put on and made up then? I think not

 

OMG, you think that is real and she is really enjoying herself?

 

This is precisely why so many who are opposed to porn are opposed to it...men think it is REAL, boys think this is REAL sex and that is how REAL sex is supposed to be and how women in their REAL lives are turned on.

 

I was pretty sure it could blur the line between reality and fantasy for immature young men and boys, but had no idea that men actually believe it IS real.

 

Thanks for making our point for us and providing yourself as an example.

[OnyxSnowfall]

OMG, you think that is real and she is really enjoying herself?

 

This is precisely why so many who are opposed to porn are opposed to it...men think it is REAL, boys think this is REAL sex and that is how REAL sex is supposed to be and how women in their REAL lives are turned on.

 

I was pretty sure it could blur the line between reality and fantasy for immature young men and boys, but had no idea that men actually believe it IS real.

 

Thanks for making our point for us and providing yourself as an example.

 

:lmao:

 

:X

 

(to be fair, some women probably do orgasm............ but they're the anomalies for sure , and the sincere orgasms are probably not expressed naturally / are overshadowed by the acting etc anyway)

[norajane]

:lmao:

 

:X

 

(to be fair, some women probably do orgasm............ but they're the anomalies for sure , and the sincere orgasms are probably not expressed naturally / are overshadowed by the acting etc anyway)

 

Yeah, I don't buy that, either. With 50 camera, lights, make-up, and whatnot people around, not to mention constant direction (move there, turn that way, closer to the camera, louder, faster, slower, camera 3 zoom in, camera 2 on her tits), I doubt any woman would actually be able to get into the zone.

[AHardDaysNight]

Like I said before, porn is fantasy. Fake cumshots, fake tits, fake orgasms...pretty much fake everything!

[Disenchantedly Yours]

TheBigQuestion

I read your entire novel.

 

Why do you have to pull that crap? Did I write a lot of stuff? Yeah I did. But you don't need to be so darn snarky about it. Try acting like an adult instead of some extra in Mean Girls.

 

I'm glad you're brave enough to admit that your insecurity plays a role in your anti-porn crusade.

 

Well BigQuestion, that's not at all what I said. But thank you for taking my very honest and vulnerable sharing to manipulate it for your own agenda. Thank you taking the spirit to which I offfered something personal about myself in an attempt to act like that's all my comments are about. You just proved what kind of man you are.

 

My insecurity plays a part in me as a female addressing social issues about how contemporary media abuses the idea of feminity and the female form. But when you insideously and purposely A) ignore everything other intelligent argument I've made about porn that had nothing to do with insecurity, B) Belittle my comments and manipulate them to suit your own agenda because I'm honest enough to admit to being human with insecurities C) pretend that *you* don't have insecurties you really discredit yourself. And I won't let you sit there behind your computer and play manipulative games in attempt to discredit things I said with porn because you can't do it through reasonable discussion but can only do it through repeatidly putting me down. That says something about you. Not me.

 

 

With that said, you still continue to misrepresent and exaggerate, much like I predicted you would in my original post which addressed you.

 

Well, I've neither misrepresented or exaggeratived and just because you claimed you "predicted" it previously and claim you see it now doesn't mean it's the case.

 

 

I cited the example about myself not because I believe the whole message board should be about me, but rather to exemplify that when it suits your purpose, you will insist on a line of thinking that is either completely untrue or makes absolutely no sense.

 

You know nothing about my actual thoughts because every time you try to claim you do, you manipulate into something completely wrong and false. Frankly, you engage in alot of slander. Especially toward me.

 

In your previous interactions with me, you just could not get it through your skull that just because I "courted" my girlfriend without spending money on her (which is something she was accustomed to in the past) did not mean that I had somehow manipulated her into it. You were so committed to your own viewpoint that you basically insulted the intelligence and emotional maturity of someone you've never met, whether you realize it not.

 

I love it. I open up to you about something in my personal life on a topic to show some raw honesty in an issue a lot of women have to deal with, which is the topic of this thread, and all you can talk about is you and your girlfriend and how wronged you've been. You can't say one thing about the actual topic at hand. This topic isn't your sounding board for all the ways you feel wronged by me. If you have an issue with me, private message me. But don't run around the board making ridiculous childish attacks in every thread you can beause o your passive aggressive misdirected anger.

 

Also, please cite any thread, other than this one, in which I go into it and complain about how I've been "wronged" by other posters. Apparently I do it really often so it shouldn't be too hard to find on your part.

 

Again, this thread is't about you. You sure worked up enough energy to talk about yourself alot. Couldn't muster up much in being real towar the subject. Funny that.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

 

There's a 21 y.o. virgin woman here on LS I PM who feels she's small in stature, "plain," thin and small-chested. She tells me she feels she doesnt have "anything to offer" a guy, as many of her female friends are attractive or have big boobs.

 

I argue otherwise and tell her looks aren't everything and she should believe the guy she's dating when he tells her he won't "tire" of her. She says she told him she fears he may look to other women, as she doesn't think she's "attractive enough."

 

If I viewed too much porn when I was single (yes, I viewed magazines), could see how that might have changed my perspective.

 

Floridaman, I appreciate you trying to help the young woman but I'm not sure if the thing a woman that feels she plain wants to hear about how looks aren't everything. Especially when the real world reflects different. I know your heart was in the right place but even girls that consider themselves plain want to feel wildly beautiful and sexy to their man. Not that their looks don't matter because of their plainness. I hope that makes sense.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Like I said before, porn is fantasy. Fake cumshots, fake tits, fake orgasms...pretty much fake everything!

 

But the fact that it's fake doesn't stop men from getting turned on, liking it, and asking their real life partners for things they see in porn.