Author AHardDaysNight Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 Well, it's common enough for a celebrity or regular person to also catch an std. Like Alexa Ray Joel. I am a pretty big Billy Joel fan, and I support her right to come out and talk about something that many, many people don't talk about. Look, I'm not saying that porn is a clean organization. But not every porn star is negatively affected by being in porn, same as not every porn viewer is negatively affected by watching it! If you are, it's fine to stay away from it...but to criticize others for enjoying adult entertainment is akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
norajane Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 not every porn viewer is negatively affected by watching it! If you are, it's fine to stay away from itBut that's just it. The viewers who are negatively affected, don't stay away from it. And the porn that you say is violent and stay away from, other people DO watch. So it seems you are not putting forth a pro-porn argument. You are putting forth a pro-masturbation argument (which not many people would argue against), and you are putting forth a pro "responsible use of mainstream porn by responsible people" argument. Which is fine, but that's not all that is going on out there as far as porn goes, and it's why people get very upset by porn.
Author AHardDaysNight Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 I guess we all have to agree to disagree. I probably will never stop watching porn. I don't have a problem with people that don't watch it, as long as they don't make arguments that say I'm a criminal for watching it. That's the difference, and that's why a thread like this is needed. An anti-porn rant can go on for 20 pages. A pro-porn rant goes on for 2. See a difference there?
norajane Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 I guess we all have to agree to disagree. I probably will never stop watching porn. I don't have a problem with people that don't watch it, as long as they don't make arguments that say I'm a criminal for watching it. That's the difference, and that's why a thread like this is needed. An anti-porn rant can go on for 20 pages. A pro-porn rant goes on for 2. See a difference there? You mean how there aren't enough pro-porn arguments to fill more than 2 pages, if that? Yes, I see the difference. I'm not against porn, per se. Since caveman days, there has been porn. It obviously fills a human need. But I'm not going to be naive about the porn industry, and the effects that watching a lot of porn can have on the minds of young people regarding what sex is and isn't. I'm also not going to turn a blind eye to the effects that porn can have on a relationship, if one of the partners is using it irresponsibly. Nor can I ignore the fact that some men "learn" about sex through watching porn, and develop distorted perspectives on both sex and women. I think the industry needs to be very strictly regulated so that young women and men aren't taken advantage of. And I think parents need to be extremely careful about monitoring what their teens are viewing on the internet. I would hope adults would know when they are overdoing it, would see when they are destroying their relationships over it, and would be smart enough to truly understand how porn and sex with an actual woman are different. But that is obviously not true in all cases. Since LS is a relationship board, it makes sense that people who come here to post about porn have had negative experiences as a result of it, so it makes sense that people have very strong feelings about it.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 That being said, the anti-porn crusade displayed in threads on LS is no different than the prohibition crusade waged in the early part of the 20th century. Both were/are overly dramatic. Well that's completely false Queen Zenobia. Because I don't remember anyone, even me, calling for porn to be outlawed. What I have see is a lot of discussion about the social ramifications of porn on current culture. If anyone is over dramatizing anything, it's you in this case. Deny it all you want but while alcohol and porn can both be addictions, they are not the same entities that bore the same exact problems. While both alcohol and porn can destroy lives, there is something important about porn you ignore which is the dynamics of relationships and sex between men and women and how it becomes mirrored or reflected in the real world.
oaks Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Porn stars also regularly get tested for STDs, and many of them don't catch STDs. So I don't see the argument there. You were touting (the use of) porn as an STD-free activity, and I was pointing out that (the manufacture of) porn isn't STD-free and you think it's a non-argument? I thought you wanted a debate! It's okay to wear those made-in-China tennis shoes; the bad things only happened to the kids in the factory while they were making them. I'm only going to use them for wholesome exercise.
oaks Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 That's the difference, and that's why a thread like this is needed. An anti-porn rant can go on for 20 pages. A pro-porn rant goes on for 2. See a difference there? Topic fatigue, but I'm sure we can flog this dead horse for a few more pages!
Disenchantedly Yours Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 I think porn has gotten much, much worse over the past decade. It's gotten more...violent. The porn I was raised on wasn't that violent...I remember just really corny plotlines, one that I remember quite vividly of a bunch of warriors battling some alien monster that came down from Mars (was it the Scifi porn channel, lol!), and having sex in between killing the alien monsters. That kind of porn is goofy, but not really scary. Nowadays, I see banners of women getting gangbanged, bukkake, choked, and violated. That's not the kind of porn I'm talking about; I tend to stay away from that filth. You see banners for women being treated like that because that's what most men want to see women treated as. It doesn't phase any of us that women are treated like that in porn today because it's become normalized. Now you can sit here and preach about what a superior porn user you are because the kind of porn you look at is "healthy" as you have personally deemed that but the reality is, that means jack to the conversation. I suspect most men think their sexuality is healthy when the lines are probably a little more blurred then not if he's been a heavy porn user. Lets stop with the nonsense and lets start being honest about how invasive porn has become and how hardcore it's become. It hasn't become that way becaues men are looking at the most respectful stuff. Lets be honest about how much more men are spending time on porn then pre-internet days. Lets not claim it's not having an imporant affect. And lets not pretend that the young boys AND girls that grew up never knowing a world without Iphones and the internet aren't seeing things that are going to change their sexuality and attitudes toward women and themselves forever.
Author AHardDaysNight Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 Well, clearly I am not having sex, so I need porn. What came first, the chicken or the egg? What came first, the porn use or the need for some sort of sexual influence (regular sex or porn?)
somedude81 Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 You mean how there aren't enough pro-porn arguments to fill more than 2 pages, if that? Yes, I see the difference. Ever heard of the vocal minority? It's the small number of people that yell the loudest. Odds are that the vast majority of men I'd say 99% on this forum and a good number of women watch porn. But they don't feel the need to make an argument why they should keep being allowed to do so. These threads are nothing more than pointless drama and most just stay away.
Author AHardDaysNight Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 Ever heard of the vocal minority? It's the small number of people that yell the loudest. Odds are that the vast majority of men I'd say 99% on this forum and a good number of women watch porn. But they don't feel the need to make an argument why they should keep being allowed to do so. These threads are nothing more than pointless drama and most just stay away. Yeah, I regret starting this thread. A sexually liberal woman wouldn't care at all if her man watched porn. Yet there are plenty of people who have an issue with it. So what? What does what goes on in my house, or my bedroom, affect you? I am watching perfectly legal, adult pornography made by consenting adults, bought by consenting adults, or streamed over legal porn streaming sites. We might as well outlaw steaks, because...you know...if you eat too many of them, you could have a heart attack! Oh, and what about soda? Plenty of people drink it, and it's unhealthy, much more unhealthy than porn! Yet porn can't be sold on store shelves, despite having less bad health effects than soda (which has been proven to kill, especially the diet sodas!)
Queen Zenobia Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Well that's completely false Queen Zenobia. Because I don't remember anyone, even me, calling for porn to be outlawed. What I have see is a lot of discussion about the social ramifications of porn on current culture. If anyone is over dramatizing anything, it's you in this case. Deny it all you want but while alcohol and porn can both be addictions, they are not the same entities that bore the same exact problems. While both alcohol and porn can destroy lives, there is something important about porn you ignore which is the dynamics of relationships and sex between men and women and how it becomes mirrored or reflected in the real world. I'm not talking about the end goals being the same, I'm talking about the arguments being presented resemble each other. Alcohol was said to cause men to beat their wives, cocaine and marijuana was alleged to cause black men to rape white women in the South. Even today you see it with the arguments against lowering the legal age to drink. "It's going to cause 12 year olds to get drunk" or "drunk driving fatalities will rise", etc. Totally bogus and sensational arguments. People can be addicted to porn, and that's bad. However that doesn't make porn a public ill. There are people addicted to video games and conspiracy theories, yet people still watch Oliver Stone movies or play the occasional Nintendo. And I really don't see anything inherently bad about what I bolded. If porn invites a healthy sense of adventure (role playing, different acts, etc.) then I think it's really not bad IMO. As I've said before, my fiance watched porn when single, and I have no complaints about our sex life. I don't feel degraded. Even if he still watched porn now I wouldn't have any issue with it so long as he didn't become addicted to it (which could be said of any hobby).
Author AHardDaysNight Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 Here is just one of the many sites out there that contribute scientific evidence as to why porn is healthy: Amidst the loud angry cries against pornography, a few serious scientific studies have been performed on the subject. It seems that men and women who view pornography, have improved sex lives, better sexual knowledge, and an overall better quality of life. Surprisingly, one study found that the more that pornography is viewed, the greater the improvements. In an extensive study performed in Australia, the majority of married respondents stated that they believed that pornography has had a positive effect on their marriage. While clearly not always linked to pornography, studies have found that men who had fewer orgasms were twice as likely to die of any cause as those having two or more orgasms a week. Interesting Fact: Pornography (and the anti-pornography movement) as it is understood today is a concept of the Victorian era (19th century) which was extremely moralistic. Sexual imagery was not taboo before that time. Top 10 Things That Are Surprisingly Good For You Thoughts?
somedude81 Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Yeah, I regret starting this thread. A sexually liberal woman wouldn't care at all if her man watched porn. Yet there are plenty of people who have an issue with it. Yeah, the thread is kind of pointless and all it does is bait the anti-porn crusaders. But if it's something you feel strongly about, then it's fine. I wouldn't really say sexually liberal woman, but more like a secure confident woman would not care if a man watches porn as long as it doesn't have a negative affect on their lives.. Some are even fine with men having been with prostitutes if he had a good reason. A good woman is understanding and not quick to judge. Obviously they aren't the type to post that porn is bad.
xxoo Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Well, clearly I am not having sex, so I need porn. What came first, the chicken or the egg? What came first, the porn use or the need for some sort of sexual influence (regular sex or porn?) Why do you need porn to masturbate? Did you not masturbate before you had access to porn? I certainly did! I'm not anti-porn, but this kind of dependence on porn has to affect a person. Porn can be part of a healthy sexual "diet", but it should be a small part--like chocolate cake can be a small part of an overall healthy diet. Porn is a cheat. It's instant gratification. It's TOO easy. Indulge too much, and it will affect your ability to use your own imagination, and fully appreciate a real woman. It happens all the time. It is like the 6 yo who is addicted to tv, and doesn't know how to entertain himself. Or the adult who loves salty, fatty fast food, and no longer appreciates the taste of a healthier meal.
somedude81 Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Why do you need porn to masturbate? Did you not masturbate before you had access to porn? I certainly did! I don't know about him. But I've been masturbating since I was 10. Masturbation has been my sole source of sexual release for the past 20 years. Can you imagine how boring that gets? Sure imagination is good for a while but it gets old fast. With porn, there is a constant influx of new material. In addition, men are more visual so we are more excited by things we can see. I do masturbate to my imagination every once in a while and when I do, it's almost always to the girl I'm infatuated with. And sense she's already turned me down, masturbating to her is kind of depressing.
Ross MwcFan Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Great post AHDN, I agree with everything you've said.
xxoo Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 I don't know about him. But I've been masturbating since I was 10. Masturbation has been my sole source of sexual release for the past 20 years. Can you imagine how boring that gets? Sure imagination is good for a while but it gets old fast. I, too, started young. It was at least 10 years before I had a partner, and I didn't have porn. It was never boring. But if it got boring, maybe you would be more turned on by women in the world around you that you are overlooking now? Women that are "unattractive" now might look a LOT more attractive if you didn't have porn to fill that need--and you could be happily in a real relationship.
oaks Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Odds are that the vast majority of men I'd say 99% on this forum and a good number of women watch porn. But they don't feel the need to make an argument why they should keep being allowed to do so. The population of this forum isn't exactly likely to be typical in this area (consisting largely of people with dysfunctional dating histories searching for advice on improving same)! But, yes, most porn users probably don't feel strongly enough about the need to justify it in a 'debate'.
oaks Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Porn is a cheat. It's instant gratification. It's TOO easy. No. Sometimes it can take minutes to find the good stuff.
FrustratedStandards Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 I honestly think people are so stupid to think porn is cheating. Seriously? Okay. What if your partner is into kinky stuff and you aren't? Instead of complaining that he is always asking to do that stuff, why not just let him watch that kind of porn, jerk off to it and be happy? I watch porn myself, and I always suggested watching porn with my exes. It's so much fun, and you really learn about the things your partner likes. Things they wouldn't usually tell you. Porn is cheating? Wow. People have dumbed down more than I thought.
dasein Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 I don't use porn. Porn has the potential to cause damage to relationships, but then again so does most any other habit, buying too many expensive shoes for example, eating too many cheeseburgers with onions, too much video gaming, having cleanliness compulsions or germ phobias, cellphone addiction. We don't single out every prospective cause of stress in a relationship that originates in the behavior or habit of one or both partners. Why not? Why does porn get so much special attention? Because lots of women don't like it, some are threatened by it, some view it as sexist or at least antifeminist. Somehow men don't get as bent out of shape about things like bachelor auctions, most eligible lists, the literal sea of celebrity worship in our media and the fashion industry that fosters unrealistic expectations in women in exactly the same way that porn fosters unrealistic expectations in men. I guess the "height threads" are an exception admittedly, but the men who start and participate in those are keelhauled here, so it's different. Women complain that porn gives men unrealistic expectations about real women, then blithely choose a 6'4" man with a six pack who is "cut" like a model (just like they see in the tabloids and fashion marketing) to have as FWB or NSA, oblivious to the fact that that model height, protruding abdominal muscles and < 10% body fat are every bit as unnatural as gigantic perfectly shaped firm breasts on a woman with a tiny waist if not moreso. Women willingly chase after and SHARE these few men with other women, hoping to win the lottery one day by snagging a man far far above them in physical attractiveness and value in the dating market. Then they denounce the men who get left out of the musical chair game for using porn... hilarious in the irony and hypocrisy. So before anyone waves the "holier than thou" flag about porn, they need to examine their own preferences, behavior, sexual habits, and the porn equivalents that they consume, respond to and are manipulated by. IMO most women who complain about porn use, unless they are personally experiencing trying to have a relationship with a porn addict, need to get off their high horse. Porn allows many men who are left out of the dating game in a way the average woman will never understand an outlet. Why is that a bad thing?
oaks Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Here is just one of the many sites out there that contribute scientific evidence as to why porn is healthy: Thoughts? That's a very narrow view of what it actually says. The article you listed doesn't contribute scientific evidence at all - it's just a journalistic (and I use that term loosely) article linking to two other journalistic articles that reference scientific studies. At least one of those article has the sense to write in a balanced way and also points to a scientific study that counters the 'good for you' notion with quotes such as "Clive Hamilton makes the emphatic claim that no man who uses pornography regularly can have a healthy relationship with a woman." So while there can be benefits to watching porn, the article you cite ("Top 10 Things That Are Surprisingly Good For You") rather undermines itself if one cares to read the references. I'm not anti-porn, but I'm anti-bad-arguments-in-support-of-it.
Eclypse Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 How about the two sides just along? The problem with a lot of these arguments is yes porn can be damaging to your relationship and yes it can make some people have unrealistic expectations of women, BUT many other things like alcohol and video game s can cause even bigger problems if you become addicted. I know... because my WoW addiction nearly destroyed my life. So I managed to quit playing it. The important thing is to identify your risk factors. Some can handle porn. Some can't. Same with games or alcohol or a thousand other things. But why are there no crusaders against those things? It's always just porn porn porn. It gets really old seeing 10 million threads on this every day. When I get home after busting my ass for 12 hours and know i wont see her for a while i put on a Porno to relax and unwind. I don't want to be constantly accused of corrupting my mind and killing my relationship with my girlfriend by objectifying her and making her feel like she can't live up to the porn girls. We have a loving tender relationship and I never even think of porn while with her or try act out "fetishes." If anything she's the one who bosses me around. In summary I would say if porn is damaging your life then quit. But if no one is being hurt then there's no big deal. Same as with a lot of things.
norajane Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) How about the two sides just along? The problem with a lot of these arguments is yes porn can be damaging to your relationship and yes it can make some people have unrealistic expectations of women, BUT many other things like alcohol and video game s can cause even bigger problems if you become addicted. I know... because my WoW addiction nearly destroyed my life. So I managed to quit playing it. The important thing is to identify your risk factors. Some can handle porn. Some can't. Same with games or alcohol or a thousand other things. But why are there no crusaders against those things? Because alcohol and video games aren't sexist and demeaning to 50% of the population. Well, some video games are. And both alcohol and the violence and sexism in video games also DO have crusaders against them. Edited October 31, 2011 by norajane
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