Am I Losing Her? (Backwards Momentum in Dating)

[spinaroonie]

Met her doing a day game approach on campus Friday two weeks ago. Tall blonde, 22, 7.5, bio major, slightly socially awkward but cute, somewhat of a loner, lives at home with her parents.

 

Met up for drinks the following Friday. Split two pitchers, brought her back to my place, make out, but she suddenly becomes non-responsive and starts to pass out on me (no clothes come off). Didn’t escalate hard physically and try to get the panties off as with most girls I bring back to the crib - saw some long term potential with this one. I walked her home (too tipsy to drive) – hold hands and walk arm in arm part of the way.

 

She texts me on Saturday.

 

Her: Hey how are u did u enjoy yourself last night

Me: I had a good time, in TO now. so how bad was your hangover this morning

 

No response.

 

No contact Sunday or Monday.

 

I text her on Tuesday 9:30PM:

 

Me: just drove by a girl in leather go go boots and thought of you. how was your long weekend?

Her: Haha it was alright a bit too much procrastination making up for it now you?

Me: lol awesome. worked on the magazine project I told you about. went to my Helen's friend's big fat Italian/Chinese wedding... Asian grandmas dancing to rap = win

Her: Ah right you were saying that sounds like a good time i did go kayaking down the grand yesterday...beautiful weather stunning fall colours

Me: awesome ya the fall foliage is amazing. gotta cook now I'll call you in a bit

 

Call, chat about my weekend, ask about hers. Some teasing and callback humour about our Friday night. Tell her my schedule’s busy but I might be free again this Friday. She says she may have the weekend free but may be going out with a friend on Friday. Tell her I’m out of town this weekend (legit). I end the phone call by telling her I’ll text later this week to confirm. Conversation is about 30 minutes.

 

No contact on Wednesday.

 

Text her on Thursday 8:30PM.

 

I just dominated two 60 yr old men at pool. self esteem = all time high. how did your midterm go?

 

No response.

 

Call her at 10:30. She doesn’t pick up. I don’t leave a voicemail but text her:

 

hey just called

 

She texts me back a few minutes later.

 

Oh **** sorry didnt realize cell was in the other room and it appears i do have prior engagements bed now!

 

I don’t respond.

 

Am I losing her? Normally I wouldn’t care but this was a girl I felt a genuine connection with. How do I salvage this?

[leninjapirate]

Well, I'd say call her tomorrow, start off by saying that you'd like to see her this week if she's up for it, and see what she says. If you keep it as direct and open as that then you can gauge from her response how interested she is. It's unlikely that she has no free time the entire week, so if she seems to be blowing you off, she probably is. Reading what you said I could see her side as either not being that interested or thinking that you aren't that interested in her, but I think it's more likely the latter.

 

Think about it from her perspective. She's the one who initiated contact the day after your date, and your reply said nothing about wanting to see her again. You wait three days before texting again (and you texted instead of calling, though you did call after a few messages so props for that), then you say that you MIGHT be free on ONE night. She's not going to clear her schedule just to suit you, buddy, and you wouldn't want a girl who did, right? So this time, call, get straight to the point, and see what days she's free, and then see where your free days match. Boom.

 

Hope it works out for you!

[spinaroonie]

Update:

 

So I text this girl on Tuesday last week - first contact made in two weeks:

 

Me: I just met your twin

Her: Whaaat

Her: Send me a pic i wanna see haha

Me: shes gone now. youre def the bad twin tho. how've you been?

Her: What did i ever do to deserve that title im fine u?

Me: major writers block. got a sec?

Her: Okay

 

Called her up, chatted for about 20 minutes. Some teasing, a funny travel story, and catching up with what's going on with our lives. Didn't attempt to ask her out - this was strictly a "reconnect after the freezeout" call.

 

There might still be some potential here as she responded right away to my texts and invested time in the phone call. I've a feeling that girls don't forget that you're a cool dude even if they flake initially.

[spinaroonie]

Update:

 

After no-contact for a week, I sent a "restart text" and called this girl on Friday and chatted for about 20 min. Got her laughing and while we're at a conversational high I cut the convo short by telling her I was gonna pre-party with friends. She asks what bar, I say I'm not sure yet. She says "I'd actually invite myself but I have work to do."

 

I take this as a huge IOI and ask how her calendar is this wknd. She says she'd be busy but counteroffered with later next wk after her midterm. I say "sure we'll work something out."

 

Looks like there's still potential with this one despite it being a month since I last saw her. Shows the importance of no contact while "pinging" with a random text once a week week so you're still on her mind; also I didn't ask her out on our first phone call since our date (to convey non-neediness), and this was only the second phone call.

 

I assume there is still some interest. Oddly, she never initiates texts but some girls are like that.

 

As counter-intuitive as it seems, no contact does work!

[dispatch3d]

This is bull****. I would have called her on her ****ty behaviour when she asked "why am I the bad twin". For example "cause you're ****ing impossible to meet up with" hahaha.

 

I feel like you're just giving her way too much lee way. What do you think would happen if you attempted to do that crap to her? I'm not saying tell her off or whatever, but for the love of god stand up for yourself.

[dispatch3d]

5 weeks and no date. Man you do not have to put this much effort into dating a girl. At this point I'd say you're fueling her self esteem more than anything else. She's probably like "ohhhh look it's my fan boy! hurray!"

 

Honestly, next time just call the girl, say lets have a date on x day, go on the date. No more of this bs. You have more things to do with your time than think up clever things to say to women over week long periods. **** that ****.

 

Call, chat about my weekend, ask about hers. Some teasing and callback humour about our Friday night. Tell her my schedule’s busy but I might be free again this Friday. She says she may have the weekend free but may be going out with a friend on Friday.

 

"I guess I'll see you around then." Then hang up. Leave the ball in her court if she's being impossible. Also you need to schedule dates, not drinking events. Girls don't want to be your fan girl either. She may say yes to a date, but no to a drinking with the buddies, for obvious reasons (I would think they are obvious at least).

Edited November 6, 2011 by dispatch3d

[phineas]

^^^^^^^^^^^

This!

 

OP, that was a painful read.

Mostly because I used to put up with that crap also.

Then I smartened up & got some projects under my belt & realized, I got better things to do then waste my time on a woman that isn't putting in any effort to see me.

[Imajerk17]

Update:

 

After no-contact for a week, I sent a "restart text" and called this girl on Friday and chatted for about 20 min. Got her laughing and while we're at a conversational high I cut the convo short by telling her I was gonna pre-party with friends. She asks what bar, I say I'm not sure yet. She says "I'd actually invite myself but I have work to do."

 

I take this as a huge IOI and ask how her calendar is this wknd. She says she'd be busy but counteroffered with later next wk after her midterm. I say "sure we'll work something out."

 

Looks like there's still potential with this one despite it being a month since I last saw her. Shows the importance of no contact while "pinging" with a random text once a week week so you're still on her mind; also I didn't ask her out on our first phone call since our date (to convey non-neediness), and this was only the second phone call.

 

I assume there is still some interest. Oddly, she never initiates texts but some girls are like that.

 

As counter-intuitive as it seems, no contact does work!

 

There's a concept called "overgaming". You got her on the phone, twice. So, why didn't you try to meet up with her?

 

This is the problem with a lot of PUAs (which you seem to be by your use of "Community" lingo). You do some things that are actually quite smooth (such as your texts) but in the end you blow it by overthinking things. Your results here say it all--5 weeks and all these texts and two phone calls and still no second meet-up.

 

A guy who didn't know any better might have proposed something at the end of the first phone call. And the girl actually might have said yes.

[snowflakes88]

I think you should've dropped the lame PUA stuff and simply asked her out a long time ago. Not sure how old you are, but the gaming and scheming typically works best on girls who are either (1) very young or (2) young-minded. I think you'll find that most women who have true potential find the games tiring and even pathetic. If you're looking for a genuine connection, there is absolutely nothing wrong with just being polite and straightforward. The other stuff turns cheesy and old really quickly.

[spinaroonie]

I think you should've dropped the lame PUA stuff and simply asked her out a long time ago. Not sure how old you are, but the gaming and scheming typically works best on girls who are either (1) very young or (2) young-minded. I think you'll find that most women who have true potential find the games tiring and even pathetic. If you're looking for a genuine connection, there is absolutely nothing wrong with just being polite and straightforward. The other stuff turns cheesy and old really quickly.

 

I hate game playing, and it's a shame that two people that like each other can't just go out and be transparent with one another. Unfortunately, part of building a connection with a woman lies in having her feel insecure about your feelings towards her -- in the early stages, anyway.

 

If you've had a string of (seemingly) great first dates, only to have the girl disappear afterwards, it is because you failed to leave room for doubt. You will have much better luck if you disappear for a bit immediately following the first date.

 

-Jeffst1980

[spinaroonie]

I've been deliberate with the sparse texting/calling. I'm not calling/texting her every other day.

 

This has been deliberate to stave off any semblance of "neediness". I realize may have come on too fast too strong after our first date initially so I backed off and took the no contact approach.

 

Keep in mind this girl is 22 and still in college.

 

The texts have only came after significant no contact periods (10-12 days). The calls were made to rekindle some of that spark from the initial interaction first date.

 

Here's our contact history since the first date.

 

Oct 7 - 1st date

Oct 8 - exchange texts

Oct 11 - exchange texts, call, I ask her out, she says she'll get back to me

Oct 13 - exchange texts, she's busy/declines to go out, no counter-offer

Oct 25 - exchange texts, 20 min phone call, I don't ask her out

Nov 4 - exchange texts, 20 min phone call, I ask her out, she says yes

 

 

Yes I was prepared to write this girl off so the text/phone call on Nov 3 was a last ditch hail mary effort. She did express interest in seeing me again so we'll see where this goes.

 

No contact works!

 

Also working on a few other girls right now, if this one doesn't pan out no biggie.

Edited November 6, 2011 by spinaroonie

[dispatch3d]

I've been deliberate with the sparse texting/calling. I'm not calling/texting her every other day.

 

This has been deliberate to stave off any semblance of "neediness". I realize may have come on too fast too strong after our first date initially so I backed off and took the no contact approach.

 

Keep in mind this girl is 22 and still in college.

 

The texts have only came after significant no contact periods (10-12 days). The calls were made to rekindle some of that spark from the initial interaction first date.

 

Here's our contact history since the first date.

 

Oct 7 - 1st date

Oct 8 - exchange texts

Oct 11 - exchange texts, call, I ask her out, she says she'll get back to me

Oct 13 - exchange texts, she's busy/declines to go out, no counter-offer

Oct 25 - exchange texts, 20 min phone call, I don't ask her out

Nov 4 - exchange texts, 20 min phone call, I ask her out, she says yes

 

 

Yes I was prepared to write this girl off so the text/phone call on Nov 3 was a last ditch hail mary effort. She did express interest in seeing me again so we'll see where this goes.

 

No contact works!

 

Also working on a few other girls right now, if this one doesn't pan out no biggie.

 

*face palm*

 

here's a hint. What's a reasonable time period for you to have a first date after you get a phone number? 4 days? 5 days? I am not waiting around 2 weeks I can tell you that. And a month is like my god man. Just lay it out - are you available anytime this week. If she's dodgy, or blablabla I might be doing this on that or whatever, tell her she can call you back when she gets her **** together.

 

If the girl isn't that into you, and is being super flaky, no amount of awesome texting is going to help you, unless it involves a 12 inch penis or something. Answer the question of why she should attend/go/want to hang out with you/like you/be interested/etc. and you'll have a much easier time. The problem is earlier on, not that you don't have fancy pants texting game.

 

Furthermore, do you really want to date someone who is this much of a pain in the ass to get together with? She's either incredibly lazy, has anxiety issues, or doesn't like you that much (but my money is on #1 or #2). At any rate, you're better off finding a better/higher quality girl. Especially given you can "approach" as many girls as you want.

[dispatch3d]

fwiw I think you need her to be the one who is insecure whether you will hook up between dates, not for you to be the one. If she has the power, it will be the same as her and the other 20 guys that hit on her every day of the week. The easiest time of dating i've had so far is actually not making any effort to schedule the next date/what we will be doing. That way she actually has to do some work. Then again that girl just really liked me until I'm pretty sure a "friend" of mine cock blocked me. Anyhow, I think you need the pressure to be on her. Every time I've chased a girl they've played "hard to get", and when I backed off or stopped calling them they've acted all upset about it (why don't you call me anymore? You never text? etc. etc.). Remember, in girl land the reason you like them is because they ignore you. Worst logic ever.

[spinaroonie]

Dude, I think we're talking past each other.

 

Keep in mind I met this girl via a cold approach pickup during the day. We're not in the same social circle, we have no mutual friends.

 

Keep in mind this girl is 22.

 

One common problem with cold approach pickup (and dating in general) is that you are automatically penalized for being a stranger. You can go out and have a great date with a girl, only to have all the attraction evaporate in a few days as you exchange text messages, trying to plan another date.

 

The fact that you aren't someone that she sees regularly in her daily life means that it will be VERY difficult for her to feel any type of connection to you until you sleep with her. However, if you attempt to "forge" a connection by texting her continually, you will likely be punished for showing too much eagerness. It's a catch 22; this is why most traditional "dating" models don't lead to relationships.

 

The best strategy is to mimic the communication strategies of high valued men and prey on her need for validation. This is what it means to be a "challenge." Since the chemistry from your first date will be forgotten in days, the only way to get her interest level up is going to be to plant the seed that you aren't sure about her yet and have other prospects.

 

This means to avoid giving her any closure following the first date. Don't make plans for a second date on the first one, don't text her to make sure she got in ok at the end of the night, and don't text her the next day to thank her for a nice time. Wait at least a couple of days, unless she contacts you first...and even then, show restraint. Her need for validation is going to be the key to getting her out with you again, so you need to make her feel that tension and uncertainty.

 

When you DO ask her out again, keep it short and sweet- don't try too hard to be witty and keep these dates SIMPLE. A man valued by many women will NOT bend over backwards trying to impress a girl he just met. Trying to impress her will send her running at this stage in the game.

 

In the event that she can not make the day you suggest and doesn't offer an alternate day, say nothing. Either wait for her to text you again, or wait a week and contact her.

 

If she cancels the second date abruptly, say nothing.

 

The common thread in these responses is to treat disinterest with amplified disinterest- meaning that you won't even offer her closure by saying, "sure, that ok." This is the only way you can demonstrate value in these situations.

 

-Jeffst1980

[Imajerk17]

Saw your recent posts. That does change things.

 

 

Keep in mind I met this girl via a cold approach pickup during the day. We're not in the same social circle, we have no mutual friends.

 

Keep in mind this girl is 22.

 

One common problem with cold approach pickup (and dating in general) is that you are automatically penalized for being a stranger. You can go out and have a great date with a girl, only to have all the attraction evaporate in a few days as you exchange text messages, trying to plan another date.

 

 

Yes and yes. Props for meeting her via cold approach, as many guys do not have the skills and stones to make things happen that way. AND for getting her to meet up with you. I meet women via cold approach during the day, and a lot of them flake before the first meet.

 

 

This means to avoid giving her any closure following the first date. Don't make plans for a second date on the first one, don't text her to make sure she got in ok at the end of the night, and don't text her the next day to thank her for a nice time. Wait at least a couple of days, unless she contacts you first...and even then, show restraint. Her need for validation is going to be the key to getting her out with you again, so you need to make her feel that tension and uncertainty.

 

See I don't agree. I get what you are saying about "make them wonder" (we human beings are suckers for variable reinforcement). I say in this case, strike when the iron is hot. If she is feeling a connection, she will agree to see you again. Then you have her word on your side, which, if she really is "high quality", will mean something. If you wait, those good feelings might dissipate.

 

That said, do you really feel she had a great time with you? She might feel embarrassed for what happened. Does she know *why* you had a great time with her? I mean, no girl wants to see herself as a drunken hookup.

[dispatch3d]

High quality guys don't wait 4 weeks hoping to get a date with some girl they barely know. Give her one-two shots max, let her know if she just ****ed up her chances, and then call it a day if she messes up. A girl who has acted super flaky, and gotten away with it is going to be way harder to hook up with than a fresh number.

 

Call them on the phone. No more texting. Trust me on that one. It is way too easy for them to be wishywashy in texts, or turn you down. It is significantly harder for them to say no to your voice over the phone.

 

Not chasing girls for four weeks is more of a me thing. I don't enjoy that process at all. Me constantly putting myself out there, and a girl not even giving me the time of day, and using the whole experience as a way to boost her own self esteem. Screw that.

[snowflakes88]

I hate game playing, and it's a shame that two people that like each other can't just go out and be transparent with one another. Unfortunately, part of building a connection with a woman lies in having her feel insecure about your feelings towards her -- in the early stages, anyway.

 

If you've had a string of (seemingly) great first dates, only to have the girl disappear afterwards, it is because you failed to leave room for doubt. You will have much better luck if you disappear for a bit immediately following the first date.

 

-Jeffst1980

 

As an actual woman, I can assure you that mature women do not find those types of games appealing. If a guy disappears for a stretch after what I thought was a good first date, I will definitely not be around when he decides to reappear. Again, I think young and immature girls might be into the games, but women with their heads on straight are not.

[spinaroonie]

As an actual woman, I can assure you that mature women do not find those types of games appealing. If a guy disappears for a stretch after what I thought was a good first date, I will definitely not be around when he decides to reappear. Again, I think young and immature girls might be into the games, but women with their heads on straight are not.

 

I'm assuming you're much older than 22.

 

If a guy proposes a second date and she flakes and doesn't counter-offer with a date, and if she nevers initiates a text/phone call, the guy has no choice but to assume that

(1) he's coming on too strong too quickly and scaring the girl away

(2) she's lost interest.

 

In this case I assumed (1).

 

So I didn't contact her for two weeks.

 

Now she's wondering why that cute, charming guy whom she had a great first date with and who used to call her up once in a while suddenly disappeared.

 

Now she sees me as a non-needy guy with a lot of options, because I didn't pester her with texts and phonecalls every other day trying to ask her out.

 

Then I text and call her out of the blue after two weeks and reignite some of those old feelings. Now she's thinking "I like him, I regret letting this guy go." When I called her again a week later and told her about my plans, SHE volunteered to tag along.

 

The only way to treat disinterest is with amplified disinterest.

 

This strategy worked.

[snowflakes88]

24, actually. I think it's interesting that so many of you would prefer to listen to other men tell you what "works," rather than take the time to hear what actual women think/feel/observe/live. I don't find it coincidental that most guys who employ these PUA techniques tend to need a lot of advice, have to copy & paste their text exchanges to get help figuring out where they went wrong, etc. I fail to see how it's working... still no date, and you're still chasing. Even several men in this thread told you how difficult/embarassing the whole thing is to read. If you're much older than 22, I hope you outgrow these games sooner rather than later. Good luck.

[spinaroonie]

Update.

 

After no contact since Friday, text her today:

 

Me (8:33 PM): do you know Rachel (her last name)?

Her (9:26 PM): Nope!

 

Call her around 11. Chat for 10 minutes, ask her if she's free tomorrow. She says she's busy with a huge lab report. She says next week would be better (we're both out of town this weekend). I say "alright let's make this more definitive. How's Tuesday." She says "Tuesday should be good, I should be done my lab report then". I say "alright there's this cool lounge I'd like to check out uptown, get on that lab report and make sure you get it done."

 

I can tolerate academic excuses. I understand college girls have demanding schedules and big assignments and lab reports. When I was in undergrad I was the same way - academics came first and I respect that so I wasn't pushy. (And hopefully she sees that, though in my experience girls tend to assume the worst and confuse kindness for weakness.)

 

Having said that I'm prepared to next this girl. The constant flakiness is annoying. If she flakes out on me Tuesday with no definitive counter-offer it's over.

 

I'll continue to work on the other girls on my roster, girls who are far more amenable. It'll be unfortunate to have to lose this one. This was the girl I had the best connection with on our first date - brought her back to my place and made out. She initiated the text the next day asking "did you enjoy yourself last night". However, the flakiness of most girls these days is intolerable and I wonder if all her academic pressures is leading her to put me on the backburner.

 

There are girls that legitimately put school first - and guys tend to get in the way of that!

Edited November 10, 2011 by spinaroonie

[spinaroonie]

Update - so went out with her Friday night (instead of Tuesday as originally planned, she had a lot of assignments and although she said she'd come out I said "no finish your assignments we'll go out on Friday"). Hit up a pub and then a club afterwards. Drank and danced and grinded on the dance floor and made out for a bit on the couches.

 

Afterwards we went back to my apartment and watched the Bob Saget comedy roast. We're sitting on my couch and laughing hard although the whole time she still has has her coat on. She has her head cuddled against my chest and I'm stroking her hair... and about a half hour in I notice her suddenly getting quiet - she was passing out! I woke her up and we kissed for a bit, but then she passed out again.

 

As she was asleep I got up from the couch, turned off the TV, turned off all the lights and went to bed on my own. A couple hours later I guess she'd awoken form her slumber and I heard her quietly slip out the door.

 

Still not sure what to make of her. At times she seems affectionate, at times distant. She readily submits to my frame when I suggest something and is always down for whatever I lead her to do. Yet I suspect she has some unresolved LSE/anxiety issues - she's a bit of a loner, lives at home with her parents, not a lot of friends and confesses to being slightly socially awkward. She also spends a lot of time on Reddit and has some problems managing schoolwork. Still, the slight social awkwardness is not a dealbreaker as she's cute, pleasant company, and fun to be with. However, she's not the best kisser and never initiates anything physical - and although she's always receptive when I initiate, I don't feel that she puts much effort in (ie. she receives but doesn't reciprocate).

 

With most "normal" girls I can smoothly escalate and get something going. But this girl has thrown a monkey wrench into my system - with the hot & cold/mixed signals she's got confused. Sometimes I feel she genuinely likes me, sometimes I'm not so sure. I think I've played everything well, being dominant and leading when necessary but showing restraint and not taking advantage of her when vulnerable.

 

Is this girl just a headcase with baggage? What am I to do at this point?

Edited November 19, 2011 by spinaroonie

[mammamia1]

In my previous relationship, I was 'hot and cold'. It could mean anything. Sometimes because I was going through a difficult stage of my life. Sometimes coz I'm tempted to leave for a better guy. Sometimes coz of school work etc.

 

What to do next depends on whether you love her enough to put up with all of those. Tell you one thing, most likely she won't change. The guy I was with tolerated my mood swing. He spoke out, complained, but still stayed. So I found absolutely no reason to change, though I knew I made it hard for him.

 

If you can put up with it the whole time, AND you love her, stay. If not, leave.

[spinaroonie]

Date was on Friday night. Texts exchanged Saturday:

 

Her (7:00 PM): Hey

Me (7:22 PM): what's up

Her (7:24 PM): Just seeing how youre doing if you had a good time last night..

Me (7:28 PM): until you passed out out again. ez on the drinks next time

Her (7:31 PM): Yeah i probably could have stopped after the first screwdriver

Her (7:33 PM): In my defence i probably would have been just as tired had i been sober

Me (7:41 PM): k we'll take it easy next time

Her (7:46 PM): It seems that every time i drink now i wake up a bit ashamed of myself

Her (8:50 PM): Sorry did u call? I was eating

 

Didn't respond to her last two texts. And no, I didn't call.

 

Thoughts?

[ScienceGal]

She seems awkward and nervous. You should plan a date earlier in the day that doesn't involve alcohol. Then, there should be no passing out and you can determine if there is any potential...

[spinaroonie]

Appreciate the tip.

 

How do I play it from here?