marriagemalpractice Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Cheaters are controllers. Plain and simple. I know I was trying to control my W when I had my revenge EA. (I'm still glad I decided to end it and come clean). Anyway, I recently uncovered some more crap about my wife's year long EA/PA which apparently was NOT over this summer like I was led to believe. The lies never stop. And it got me thinking about affairs again and how they are all about CONTROL. Look, the marriage was "over in your heart"? You found someone you were more compatible with? Fine and dandy, life happens. But just tell me as much and let me make my own decisions. Ah, but that's just the point isn't it? You don't want me to be able to make my own informed decisions because they might adversely impact you. You want to control what I think and what I do, so you can have your cake and eat it too! (Hey that's a great rhyme!) Seriously cheaters, if you want someone else, what on earth is stopping you from just coming out and saying so? Let's examine some common excuses: 1) If I tell my wife, she'll be really angry. Oh I see Mr. Cheater, so you think you should be in charge of what your wife gets to feel? You get to decide if she should be allowed to be angry or not? Must be nice to own someone's emotions. 2) If I tell him, I won't have any way to support myself. Wow Mrs. Cheater, must be great to be married to an ATM. So what you're saying is that you own him. You get to decide if he should or shouldn't keep paying all the bills, regardless of what you're choosing to do. You get to control his actions and his choices. It's OK for you to run around on him, but it would NOT be OK for him to stop paying your bills. Must be nice to be more important than other people. 3) If she finds out, she'll leave with the kids and I won't get to see them as much. Oh I see Mr. Cheater, so you own your wife's choices now. You get to have everything you want, just as long as she doesn't get to have a mind of her own. But then it wouldn't be fair for you to lose time with your kids. After all, what right does someone have to withhold something that should be yours? Oh wait.... 4) If I tell the OM I'm still sleeping with my husband, he won't want to have sex with me any more. Neato, Mrs. Cheater! Not only do you have some hot action on the side, you actually get to control and own his body! You get to decide whether he should want to have sex with you or not, and you get to manipulate the situation so that it's assured he will want to. Ironically, I bet you've told your OM at least once that you felt like your husband was just using you for sex.... 5) I can't come clean. If my family and/or friends found out, they'd be really upset and they'd judge me. Well hot dang! Not only are you so super special that you have the right to control you spouse and your OP, you also have the right to control your friends' and family's beliefs, thoughts, and feelings! It must be so awesome to be someone so important like you. You should get to control how other people view and perceive you, and how they act towards you. 6) I can't be honest with them because I'm confused. I want the OW in some ways, but I still want my wife sometimes too. And if I tell the truth, neither of them may want me in the end. Holy chili cheese fries Mr. Cheater, you must be more freaking important than the President! Your needs are so immensely important that you should get infinite time to decide what you're going to do, and neither of your partners should get any say in the matter. You get to control what they want and how long they stick around. 7) If my husband finds out, he might confront the OM! Good heavens to mergatroid Mrs. Cheater, that must never be allowed! You own and control your husband's choices, and even his very manhood! And you must protect your OM and make sure his choices can't have any consequences. You must control the outcome of all of this! 8) My wife isn't giving me enough love. I deserve love! Why yes you do, Mr. Cheater. You deserve the sun and the moon and the stars too. And you deserve to control how much love you get, from whom, all the time. Wife isn't giving you enough love, then leave her! Oh, then you won't have anyone to do the laundry? Oh yes, that would be a problem. Wouldn't be fair for you to lose your slave labor.... I could go on and on, but I think those examples pretty much cover it. Any excuse I've ever heard would pretty much fit into one of those categories. CHEATING = CONTROL. So to all the WS out there, perhaps you should stop being control freaks. Perhaps you should acknowledge that human beings, other than yourselves, have the right to make informed choices of their own. You don't own anyone else's mind, heart, feelings, or body. Stop trying to.
freestyle Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 great post---well stated, and very true, IMO. The ultimate form of control, IMO---is to withhold information that would allow a person to make an ACCURATELY informed decision about where they're investing their emotional currency.
seren Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 great post---well stated, and very true, IMO. The ultimate form of control, IMO---is to withhold information that would allow a person to make an ACCURATELY informed decision about where they're investing their emotional currency. I agree with the OP, I absolutely agree with Freestyle. Informed choice should be everyone's right.
Woggle Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 I fully agree though they love to shift it and call us who as for fidelity the controlling ones.
Got it Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Cheaters are controllers. Plain and simple. I know I was trying to control my W when I had my revenge EA. (I'm still glad I decided to end it and come clean). Anyway, I recently uncovered some more crap about my wife's year long EA/PA which apparently was NOT over this summer like I was led to believe. The lies never stop. And it got me thinking about affairs again and how they are all about CONTROL. Look, the marriage was "over in your heart"? You found someone you were more compatible with? Fine and dandy, life happens. But just tell me as much and let me make my own decisions. Ah, but that's just the point isn't it? You don't want me to be able to make my own informed decisions because they might adversely impact you. You want to control what I think and what I do, so you can have your cake and eat it too! (Hey that's a great rhyme!) Seriously cheaters, if you want someone else, what on earth is stopping you from just coming out and saying so? Let's examine some common excuses: 1) If I tell my wife, she'll be really angry. Oh I see Mr. Cheater, so you think you should be in charge of what your wife gets to feel? You get to decide if she should be allowed to be angry or not? Must be nice to own someone's emotions. 2) If I tell him, I won't have any way to support myself. Wow Mrs. Cheater, must be great to be married to an ATM. So what you're saying is that you own him. You get to decide if he should or shouldn't keep paying all the bills, regardless of what you're choosing to do. You get to control his actions and his choices. It's OK for you to run around on him, but it would NOT be OK for him to stop paying your bills. Must be nice to be more important than other people. 3) If she finds out, she'll leave with the kids and I won't get to see them as much. Oh I see Mr. Cheater, so you own your wife's choices now. You get to have everything you want, just as long as she doesn't get to have a mind of her own. But then it wouldn't be fair for you to lose time with your kids. After all, what right does someone have to withhold something that should be yours? Oh wait.... 4) If I tell the OM I'm still sleeping with my husband, he won't want to have sex with me any more. Neato, Mrs. Cheater! Not only do you have some hot action on the side, you actually get to control and own his body! You get to decide whether he should want to have sex with you or not, and you get to manipulate the situation so that it's assured he will want to. Ironically, I bet you've told your OM at least once that you felt like your husband was just using you for sex.... 5) I can't come clean. If my family and/or friends found out, they'd be really upset and they'd judge me. Well hot dang! Not only are you so super special that you have the right to control you spouse and your OP, you also have the right to control your friends' and family's beliefs, thoughts, and feelings! It must be so awesome to be someone so important like you. You should get to control how other people view and perceive you, and how they act towards you. 6) I can't be honest with them because I'm confused. I want the OW in some ways, but I still want my wife sometimes too. And if I tell the truth, neither of them may want me in the end. Holy chili cheese fries Mr. Cheater, you must be more freaking important than the President! Your needs are so immensely important that you should get infinite time to decide what you're going to do, and neither of your partners should get any say in the matter. You get to control what they want and how long they stick around. 7) If my husband finds out, he might confront the OM! Good heavens to mergatroid Mrs. Cheater, that must never be allowed! You own and control your husband's choices, and even his very manhood! And you must protect your OM and make sure his choices can't have any consequences. You must control the outcome of all of this! 8) My wife isn't giving me enough love. I deserve love! Why yes you do, Mr. Cheater. You deserve the sun and the moon and the stars too. And you deserve to control how much love you get, from whom, all the time. Wife isn't giving you enough love, then leave her! Oh, then you won't have anyone to do the laundry? Oh yes, that would be a problem. Wouldn't be fair for you to lose your slave labor.... I could go on and on, but I think those examples pretty much cover it. Any excuse I've ever heard would pretty much fit into one of those categories. CHEATING = CONTROL. So to all the WS out there, perhaps you should stop being control freaks. Perhaps you should acknowledge that human beings, other than yourselves, have the right to make informed choices of their own. You don't own anyone else's mind, heart, feelings, or body. Stop trying to. What about a MP who leaves the marriage immediately after the affair starts?
Author marriagemalpractice Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 What about a MP who leaves the marriage immediately after the affair starts? Well what about it? You're making my point for me. In this scenario the MP isn't sneaking around day after day, month after month, year after year, leaving the BS thinking everything is OK and taking away their ability to make choices based on the truth. The MP has said, "I want someone else and I'm leaving". The BS knows the truth, and now will move forward with their life and make decisions based on that truth. And if MP ever realizes the stupidity of what they've done and tries to come back, the BS will get to make an informed decision about whether or not to take them back.
findingnemo Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 This is a great post!! It should become a reference to all. When a WS gives the AP a reason why they aren't leaving, refer to this. It's true meaning is covered in there. That's why I think exposure is the best policy...for everyone.
analystfromhell Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 A great reference to point people towards when they come onboard loveshack and ask the inevitable question- "what should I do".
Spark1111 Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Great, great post! It rings so true! I hope everyone reads it. The need to control is based on being so out of control; emotionally, psychologically, physically, financially and mentally; and out of control people can become extremely selfish in trying to maintain "control." MY fWS didn't tell me the truth because he wanted to control me, my actions, my choices, my future. He wanted to ensure I remained faithful. Why else not tell the truth and separate and attend MC while he pursued his feelings for another? My acquaintance refuses to reconcile with her H because she needs his money to help pay bills while she dates around looking for the "one" as he pines for her to come to her senses. She doesn't love him. She loves his financial support. I wish OW/OM would embrace this. It has nothing to do with kids, finances, asset division, hurting the feelings of another, blah, blah, blah. The SECRECY of an affair is to ensure control of the BS and family, and all members of the triangle to remain put exactly where he or she wants them; under their control.
Reuben Kinkaid Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Look, I've never cheated. Neither has my wife (that I know of). And we don't have plans to cheat (that I know of). I feel tremendous sympathy for those struggling with infidelity in their relationships. But I don't think blanket statements about who is to blame or what's the root of infidelity are accurate. And - this is the part that will surely get people thinking I'm siding with cheaters - I believe there's usually sufficient blame to go around when marriages fail. Yes there are exceptions - wife beaters, arranged marriages, Tiger Woods types. I'm not siding with cheaters, but really no one comes out of a divorce without some dirt on their hands. Perhaps I'm naive as this is my first (and hopefully last) marriage.
jlola Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Cheaters are selfish. They want o make sure they are not left alone. That they have a soft spot to crash if their marriage goes kaput. They want to make sure their future is secure. They are afraid to be alone no matter how badly they complain about their marriage. They won't leave until they grab onto the next branch. Ironically, they do not care if their BS ha a soft spot to land. They do not care if the spouse now has a future that is insecure. They forget to mention to their BS they are lining up their ducks and protecting themselves. Perhaps BS should watch their back. Nope!!! It's all about ME!!!
Breezy Trousers Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 You know, I've read lots about infidelity, but this perspective passed me by. Excellent post, MarriageMal! I agree with you. Whether the intention to control is conscious or not, it's always there in infidelity... Another word for it would be narcissism, which everyone has to some degree but which becomes grossly exaggerated in all affair partners. Fact is, those who cannot control themselves will always want to control others.
Breezy Trousers Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Look, I've never cheated. Neither has my wife (that I know of). And we don't have plans to cheat (that I know of). I feel tremendous sympathy for those struggling with infidelity in their relationships. But I don't think blanket statements about who is to blame or what's the root of infidelity are accurate. And - this is the part that will surely get people thinking I'm siding with cheaters - I believe there's usually sufficient blame to go around when marriages fail. Yes there are exceptions - wife beaters, arranged marriages, Tiger Woods types. I'm not siding with cheaters, but really no one comes out of a divorce without some dirt on their hands. Perhaps I'm naive as this is my first (and hopefully last) marriage. I used to think that way, too. Here's the thing: Two people are always to blame for their marriages. However, only one person is to blame for infidelity. No person or circumstance forces another person to deceive, cheat & manipulate. There are plenty of marriages sharing the same exact unhappy circumstances, but infidelity is never considered to be an option for those couples. Infidelity is always a reflection of the cheater's internal landscape -- not the marriage, not the BS. No one deserves to be gaslighted --- to have his/her perception of reality deliberately toyed with by another. Unhappy in a marriage? Man up! Go to therapy, get a divorce, do polyamory, whatever --- but don't gaslight and manipulate others. And don't justify your dishonesty by saying someone/something made you do it. That's the internal landscape of a four-year-old. Most importantly: Who are YOU to determine who "deserves" that gaslighting? Where are YOUR clean hands? Who made YOU the God of all others? (BTW, the "you" isn't directed toward you, Reuben. Just trying to show you where I think MarriageMal's "control" post may be coming from ...)
Breezy Trousers Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Sparks, your entire post was gold, but this was worth repeating: The SECRECY of an affair is to ensure control of the BS and family, and all members of the triangle to remain put exactly where he or she wants them; under their control.
Steadfast Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 I've always considered selfishness the root of cheating and the following lying, manipulation, entitlement; everything based on fear of consequences, I haven't considered control as a cheat 'conspiracy'. And while all the above can be applied to relationships where cheating is not present, so can control. It seems to all wash out in the end. Cheater's will stop at nothing to justify, those cheated on will stop at nothing to understand why. It's a dirty game.
jlola Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Great, great post! It rings so true! I hope everyone reads it. The need to control is based on being so out of control; emotionally, psychologically, physically, financially and mentally; and out of control people can become extremely selfish in trying to maintain "control." MY fWS didn't tell me the truth because he wanted to control me, my actions, my choices, my future. He wanted to ensure I remained faithful. Why else not tell the truth and separate and attend MC while he pursued his feelings for another? My acquaintance refuses to reconcile with her H because she needs his money to help pay bills while she dates around looking for the "one" as he pines for her to come to her senses. She doesn't love him. She loves his financial support. I wish OW/OM would embrace this. It has nothing to do with kids, finances, asset division, hurting the feelings of another, blah, blah, blah. The SECRECY of an affair is to ensure control of the BS and family, and all members of the triangle to remain put exactly where he or she wants them; under their control. Exactly!!!! When a M male friend left his wife for MOW she began big time cake eating for 2 year. I guess she wanted them both,him and her husband. When he would finally get fed up with the games,she would try to lure him in again. Eventually he gave up after she got pregnant. I told him he dodged the bullet. He would never win.Because a soon as MW and he got together AND her husband moved on and began to date, she would be right back to trying to gain her status quo with husband again. Right back to trying to regain control . When she saw the new girlfriend enjoying the life she thought she was entitled to, the attention she was entitled to,all hell would break lose and my friend would then be in the position of MW's husband. Yup,control,entitlement and selfishness is what you need to play the game.
Snowflower Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 You know, I've read lots about infidelity, but this perspective passed me by. Excellent post, MarriageMal! I agree with you. Whether the intention to control is conscious or not, it's always there in infidelity... Another word for it would be narcissism, which everyone has to some degree but which becomes grossly exaggerated in all affair partners. Fact is, those who cannot control themselves will always want to control others. re: the bolded...yes, this is it. The cheater lacked self-control but wants everyone else to "pay" for it...their BS by keeping them in the dark, the OP by insisting on secrecy (often by unspoken agreement), and friends/family by keeping them in the dark. I never really subscribed to the CS as always being a cake-eater but after reading this post and reflecting on it, yes, this I think all cheaters are narcissistic and cake-eaters, at least while in the affair. What I read here time after time on LS is a WS who makes a huge mistake/bad choice/decision and then wants everyone else to clean it up for them, whether the others know they are actually doing this or not: "I can't tell my BS because she/he will leave me and then I will have a real mess to deal with: an expensive divorce, losing my house, my kids, etc. I don't want to have any of that happen so I won't tell my spouse." "My AP and I got "secret" cell phones so that our spouses will not know we are talking. Therefore, we can keep that unspoken agreement that we will not tell anyone about us. Our spouses will not know what is really going either." "Maybe if I act like an a**/b*atch for long enough...my spouse will just go ahead and file for divorce and I can look like the poor spouse who was so surprised that they are divorcing me. Meanwhile, I can just carry on the affair because it is EASIER." Great post, MM!
Beachgirl8 Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Awesome post. I have no sympathy for cheaters. I can't think of a single example where cheating is the appropriate response/solution to any situation. There is always an alternative that doesn't involve lying, manipulation, and control of the person the WS professes to be faithful to.
freestyle Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 What really sticks in my craw, and ticks me off about this........ Is that WS's will often accuse the BS of being "too controlling" when the BS first begins to suspect that something's ...off , and starts to question the WS. i.e. "You can't tell me who I can or can't be friends with" "Why do you need to know where I was last Thursday night?" and in their phony indignation, they'll label the BS as a "control freak". While all the while, the WS in engaging in the ULTIMATE form of control, by withholding the truth. It's so completely ridiculous to me.
blueskyday Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 I've been cheated on and cheated myself (which I deeply regret.) There is nothing worse than feeling like you have your decision making power taken away, except maybe deceiving someone yourself. In my case, it was a revenge cheating situation. I justified my actions saying he did it for years, was abusive as well, etc...Of course, there is no justification. It might have taken two to have the bad relationship dynamic, but a cheater is a thief of trust and that only takes one. I was also married for years and we were both faithful. When I felt like I might be tempted to cheat, I worked on my marriage with a therapist and although I eventually left, I never thought cheating was an option. It was simply a red flag that something was wrong. Thinking like that is the key to not cheating. When I did cheat on the abusive cheating boyfriend, I was so hurt because I had always been faithful and loyal and he treated me so badly in return. I was acting out in a horrible fashion by trying to regain my power by doing to him what he did to me. I desperately needed validation and went about getting it in the wrong way. I should have simply left, which I did after I regained my strength. Cheating is always the problem of the cheater. It is a very immature way of dealing with problems, whether relational between the two parties or internal to the cheater (like Tiger Woods.) I have such trust issues now. I never doubted anyone before, and being the victim of gaslighting makes one feel crazy and doubt their own instinct that something is wrong. It's very cruel. I know I did it to someone, too, and at the time I felt like he needed a taste of their own medicine. He was a serial cheater. He lied to me about his history of cheating on his wife. He cheated and lied to me during our relationship. I felt justifed in doing what I did, but of course, I wasn't. I still don't think a cheater who is cheated on should be able to cry about it to garner sympathy. To think I felt sorry for him because his ex-wife cheated on him and he would cry and cry about it....and I didn't know he cheated on her with so many women...and then he did it to me... Honestly, I would have felt worse cheating on my husband or someone who never cheated on me. In the end, however, we only cheat on ourselves, no matter what. I would never do it again, ever. I will leave first. Commitment is important, and I find it to be so elusive these days. It's hard to find a partner who will give that back, if you offer it. But, that's another post.
Spark1111 Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 What really sticks in my craw, and ticks me off about this........ Is that WS's will often accuse the BS of being "too controlling" when the BS first begins to suspect that something's ...off , and starts to question the WS. i.e. "You can't tell me who I can or can't be friends with" "Why do you need to know where I was last Thursday night?" and in their phony indignation, they'll label the BS as a "control freak". While all the while, the WS in engaging in the ULTIMATE form of control, by withholding the truth. It's so completely ridiculous to me. It's called projection and it is very common, unfortunately. You project only your positive attributes to your AP (halo effect) and YOUR negative attributes onto your BS.
beenburned Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 This is one of the best posts I have ever read about cheating! And one of the main reasons the cheater keeps BW/OW in the dark is they don't want anyone doing to them what they are doing to others. This IMO is why open marriages/ swinging/ polygamy usually never works out in the long run.
scatterd Posted November 4, 2011 Posted November 4, 2011 This post is great! It is so true, I had to laugh about it.
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