OM/OW Analogy - Prospecting for a new job....

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Posted this within a thread in Infidelity section as the woman did not blame her spouse for cheating as she really did not listen to his concerns and was oblivious to the hurt and strain on the marriage she was causing (to paraphrase).

 

Got me thinking....

 

Let's look at this like a job. You start at the company and have great hopes. Work hard and are rewarded for your successes, wined, dined and paid well. You move up the ranks, have successes, maybe some duds and failures, however everyone is quite happy. Then you hit the roadblock. You try and make it work, but things are not improving and management/superiors really don't care when you bring these concerns forward. You continue to make overtures that you want some changes and are met with indifference and are sloughed off.

 

Eventually you realize you have hit the ceiling or maybe they are looking to move out or replace you. You start looking elsewhere. The company down the street looks interesting and you talk to them. You have no assets with the current company or anything tying you there (i.e. kids). If you do you formulate how this will be divided or handled when you leave.

 

You aren't dumb and just going to leave without a fallback plan, money or a job offer so you pursue the company hard and they do too.

 

You may actually do some consulting for them on your time to show your skill and expertise.

 

You pull the trigger and you tell your company you're gone. Some make a counter offer, some let you walk. Seldom do they scream you betrayed them.

 

I was impressed in the other thread that the OP was honest in her assessment. Was she completely honest? I don't know, but it was refreshing to read a WOMAN admit her role.

 

Sorry I do not support or condone cheating, but more and more I can empathize as to why it happens.

 

I hope she has learned and grown from this and will be a better person in the end.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic

[bentnotbroken]

I think there are very few BS who feel they had no role in marital problems. And some of us admit to major roles in marital dissatisfaction. But I will never believe a BS(whether they feel that way or not) had a role in a grown person choosing to cheat. I didn't expect Mr. Messy to take responsibility for my contribution to the marital problems anymore than I wanted him(which he did regularly)take credit for the things that I did to strengthen and our relationship. BS should own their contributions and the WS should own the added dynamic of the affair.

[woinlove]

Some people don't mind lying and betraying others. For them, it may not matter much what their spouse does, as they may want to cheat anyway. Others lie and betray, even though they don't feel good about it. For those, they have given up something important to them - honesty and integrity. No one should do that for another person. If you are going to give up your own integrity, do it for yourself and own it. There is usually an option which allows one to keep his/her integrity, no matter how bad the situation is.

 

While you seem to view this as a WS vs BS thing, I think cheating has a big element of WS vs WS in it - except for those who don't mind lying and betraying others.

 

Not sure about your job analogy, as most people are free to look for another job whenever they want to. I suppose some people are under contract to their employers and would get into trouble for breaking that contract. Maybe an analogy there.

Edited October 29, 2011 by woinlove

[Toodamnpragmatic]

What I was trying to say is why not be in an affair prior to leaving your spouse, if that is what has happened in your marriage. Now remember this is much different then being happy in your job, but just looking for the next best thing or job offer. You are not happy in the job and they are not making it enjoyable or fulfilling for you. To resign without a job lined up, especially if you are in a senior position is not a smart move.

 

When you're fired it's separation or divorce.

 

People have a hand in the dissolution of their jobs all the time. Yes it is a two way road. Very few are "superstars" and make no mistakes along the way. What I was saying is that when things start breaking down at the job or the marriage and there is little attempt to get back on track, a smart employee starts looking elsewhere and not waiting for his/her walking papers. What they do is they start courting prospective partners, which is in my analogy an EA and many if smart start the PA before they resign.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic

[woinlove]

What I was trying to say is why not be in an affair prior to leaving your spouse, if that is what has happened in your marriage. Now remember this is much different then being happy in your job, but just looking for the next best thing or job offer. You are not happy in the job and they are not making it enjoyable or fulfilling for you. To resign without a job lined up, especially if you are in a senior position is not a smart move.

 

When you're fired it's separation or divorce.

 

People have a hand in the dissolution of their jobs all the time. Yes it is a two way road. Very few are "superstars" and make no mistakes along the way. What I was saying is that when things start breaking down at the job or the marriage and there is little attempt to get back on track, a smart employee starts looking elsewhere and not waiting for his/her walking papers. What they do is they start courting prospective partners, which is in my analogy an EA and many if smart start the PA before they resign.

 

And, as I said, if you don't mind lying and deceiving, then that may work for you. On the other hand, if you want to be an honest and trustworthy person, then you can tell your spouse how you feel and what you plan to do and, yes your spouse may choose to separate or divorce you. It all comes down to how you want to behave, doesn't it?

 

As I also said, unless you are under a contract which restricts you from taking another job, there is typically no agreement or understanding between you and your employer that you will not look for another job. If you do have a contact and want to violate it, you may have to pay a penalty.

[SoMovinOn]

And, as I said, if you don't mind lying and deceiving, then that may work for you. On the other hand, if you want to be an honest and trustworthy person, then you can tell your spouse how you feel and what you plan to do and, yes your spouse may choose to separate or divorce you. It all comes down to how you want to behave, doesn't it?

 

Keeping with the analogy, you could also tell your employer you are unhappy and plan on looking at other options. At that point, your employer may fire you on the spot, leaving you unemployed and, possibly, unable to pay your bills.

 

It's a matter of controlling the outcome and when it happens. It is either you making the choices, or you laying everything out and allowing someone else to make the choice for you. Why would you do the latter? For honesty? Integrity? In most instances, the people on the other side of the equation would make no such considerations if the shoe were on the other foot - they'd put you out on your ass without a moments notice.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

And, as I said, if you don't mind lying and deceiving, then that may work for you. On the other hand, if you want to be an honest and trustworthy person, then you can tell your spouse how you feel and what you plan to do and, yes your spouse may choose to separate or divorce you. It all comes down to how you want to behave, doesn't it?

 

As I also said, unless you are under a contract which restricts you from taking another job, there is typically no agreement or understanding between you and your employer that you will not look for another job. If you do have a contact and want to violate it, you may have to pay a penalty.

 

First not me at all, and either dating, living together, married or married with children it was just an analogy. Very few jobs have contracts that have your specific wording in them and even then are difficult to enforce.

 

I was having fun and thought it was an appropo analogy specifically where a spouse wants to ease into another relationship as opposed to just leaving with no back-up plan.

 

Really no need to take it so literally.

[jlola]

 

 

When you're fired it's separation or divorce.

 

People have a hand in the dissolution of their jobs all the time. Yes it is a two way road. Very few are "superstars" and make no mistakes along the way. What I was saying is that when things start breaking down at the job or the marriage and there is little attempt to get back on track, a smart employee starts looking elsewhere and not waiting for his/her walking papers. What they do is they start courting prospective partners, which is in my analogy an EA and many if smart start the PA before they resign.

 

 

Relationships are very different than a job or career. most people are emotionally immature and would do well to take a step back when a relationship is not going well to see why it went off track.

 

 

I can never understand people who need another relationship lined up before they leave the old one. It how immaturity and lack of elf awareness. It also shows they are not comfortable being alone.

 

A I stated before. My sister is barely 40 and on her 5th marriage(married #4 in July). Every single marriage she left was due to her "dating while married". Everyone advices her to be on her own for awhile after divorce,get to know herself and THEN find someone. But it doesn't make sense to her.She chases romance.

 

If you want to continue to date, do not get married. And IF you get married, be sure to understand the phases of a relationship. All relationships go through those phases.

 

 

 

THE STAGES OF MARRIAGE

 

 

Building A Strong Family -

Proverbs 24:3

(Adapted from a sermon by Rick Warren)

Proverbs 24 says, “Homes are built on the foundation of wisdom and understanding.” (Prov 24:3) In other words, God wants you to be wise. He wants you to understand how your marriage operates.

This morning we're going to look at the common stages in a marriage -- so you can be wise and understanding. A lot of marriages fall apart due to ignorance. They're unaware of the dynamics. They're in the dark as to what is actually taking place in the marriage. I've had people say, “I have no idea what went wrong! I never noticed anything was wrong.”

Today we're going to let God give us some wisdom and understanding, which – He says -- is the foundation of a strong home life. There are three predictable stages in any marriage. We're going to describe these stages -- and then show you how to make it to stage three in your marriage.

The FIRST STAGE of marriage is found in The Song of Solomon. We might call it …

 

I. THE HAPPY HONEYMOON.

This is the “thrilling” stage of the marriage. The Song of Solomon is all about the happy honeymoon. Chapter 2, verses 2 through 9 describe this stage of the marriage. Listen to the comparisons and descriptions here. Solomon and his beloved wife are describing each other.

Solomon says, “Like a lily among thorns is my darling among the maidens.” This guy is smitten! She replies, “Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest is my lover among the young men. I delight to sit in his shade and his fruit is sweet to my taste. He's taken me to the banquet hall and his banner over me is love. Strengthen me with raisins and refresh me with applies for I am faint with love.”

She's saying, “I'm devastated by this guy. He's one big hunk!” Notice verse 8: “Listen my lover. Look! Here he comes leaping across the mountains bounding over the hills. My lover is like a swift gazelle or a young deer.” Wives, can you see your husbands bounding into the room in his boxer shorts? Leaping over chairs and couches?

What is happening here? There are five words that describe this first stage of marriage:

1. Intensity. There is focused attention. They're spellbound … absorbed. They are engrossed with each other. They've got a crush on each other. “I only have eyes for you!” They are totally preoccupied. “I'm faint with love,” she says. That's what happens in the first stage of marriage. You are zapped! All you can see is that person. It’s a time of great intensity.

2. Idealism. You have a tendency in the first stage of your marriage to put your partner on a pedestal. We see this in chapter 4 of the Song of Solomon. He says,“How beautiful you are my darling. How beautiful.” Then he starts comparing her:“Your eyes behind your veils are doves. Your hair is like a flock of goats.”

Men, don't try that one on your wives! “Your teeth are like a flock of sheep.” Just understand this is oriental beauty! “Your lips are like a scarlet ribbon. Your mouth is lovely. Your temples behind your veil are like halves of a pomegranate. Your neck is like the tower of David.” (Song of Solomon 4:1-5) He's kind of giving her a run down on her body. He keeps going but I think I'll stop right there at the neckline! He sums it up in verse 7: “All beautiful you are, my darling. There is no flaw in you.” (Song of Solomon 4:7) Notice the idealism? They see each other as perfect. There is a total disregard of differences and faults.

There's intensity, idealism – thirdly …

3. Indulgence. There's a lot of giving in and a lot of giving up. “Whatever you want, darling!” You go along to get along. You cater to every whim. You're pampering each other. You can't stand sports but you go with your husband to the ball game. He hates going shopping at the mall -- but he goes anyway. In this stage you indulge each other, please each other. There is also …

4. Infatuation. There is extreme happiness, a great feeling of well-being. You are “in love.” Everything seems great. The world seems great, you seem great, your mate seems great. “I'm in love!” There's a bounce in your step. This entire book is filled with this – they are enamored with each other, infatuated – they can do no wrong.

You have all of these ingredients in the happy honeymoon. Intensity, idealism, indulgence, infatuation. But one more word describes this stage:

5. Ignorance. The fact is, you don't really even know that person. You're in love with an ideal of them. You don't know what they're really like and you don't know what you're in for.

(One guy said, “I didn't know that puppy love would lead to a dog's life.”)

During this first stage we tend to ignore our differences and overlook our faults and put our hang-ups aside and any major conflict is swept under the carpet.

Infatuation is when you look at her and think she looks like Julia Roberts, cooks like Martha Stewart, sings like Dolly Parton, plays tennis like Serena Williams, and can make you laugh like Joan Rivers.

Love is when you realize that - in fact - she cooks like Julia Roberts, sings like Martha Stewart, plays tennis like Dolly Parton, is as funny as Serena Williams, and looks like Joan Rivers.” (248)

It's infatuation when you think he is as sexy as Brad Pitt, as smart as Albert Einstein, as noble as Ralph Nader, as funny as Tim Allen, and as athletic as Michael Jordan.

It's love when you realize that -- in fact -- he is as sexy as Albert Einstein, as smart as Michael Jordan, as funny as Ralph Nader, and as athletic as Tim Allen. (413)

The fact is this stage doesn't last. It can't last. Sooner or later we awaken to a few realities - that we have differences and faults. We have different temperaments, we have different personalities -- and we come to realize there's more to life than just having fun. There are responsibilities you have to face. You start having to pay bills. The first stage kind of floats off to the side and we come to stage two.

 

 

STAGE TWO is described in Proverbs. Realize that the same man who wrote The Song of Solomon wrote Proverbs. Notice the change in attitude. In The Song, Solomon says, “You're perfect! You're flawless. There's nothing wrong with you. It's great. I'm in love. It's fantastic.”

A little while later -- in Proverbs – Solomon says this about his lovely wife, “It is better to live alone in the corner of an attic than with a contentious wife in a lovely home.” (Prov 21:9; 25:24) “A quarrelsome wife is like a constant dripping on a rainy day. Restraining her is like restraining the wind or grasping oil with the hand.” (Prov 27:15-16)

What happened? His delight turns to disillusionment. His dating turns to debating. His romance turns to resentment. The ideal turns to the ordeal. This is stage two. Stage one is the Happy Honeymoon. Stage two might be called …

II. THE PARTY'S OVER

The thrill turns to tension. It's like the man who goes in complaining to his pastor two months after marriage, “I got false advertising here.”

The Pastor said, “You took her for better or for worse.”

The man said, “Yeah, but she's a lot worse than I took her for.”

There are five words that characterize Stage Two in marriage:

1. Dullness. It's back to the routine. Boredom sets in. You become complacent. You lose interest. You neglect your appearance. In dating you looked perfect. But then, after you get married, you start letting it all hang out. The attitude before marriage is “Anything you want, darling.” After marriage it's “Get it yourself, Buster!” Dullness and routine is a part of this stage. Then, there are …

2. Disagreements. You begin to clash over differences. You begin to argue. There's some strife in your marriage and some hang-ups and you experience disharmony. There is conflict and disagreements.

3. Defensiveness. You start protecting yourself. You're not as open as you were. You don't let your guard down, you watch your rear flank -- you're not as open and vulnerable. There's a com-munication breakdown. You don't want your faults used against you. You start protecting yourself, because you think they could use that as ammunition against you. We accuse and excuse. We excuse ourselves and we accuse our mates. We blame them and start finding fault with each other. Resentment builds up.

4. Disapproval. Before, we find Solomon saying, “Everything she does is right!” Now he's saying, “Nothing she does is right!” What a change in attitude. There's a lot of criticizing and complaining.

It's like the wife who said, “I knew my husband was temperamental but I found out it was 90% temper and 10% mental.”

And there's nagging. The husband says, “All she does is nag! She's a witch!” Solomon writes, “A nagging wife annoys like a constant dripping.” (Prov 19:13)

The wife says, “I just don't respect him any more.” Respect goes down the tubes. We criticize and jab. Someone said, “The way to bury your marriage is a lot of little digs” -- constantly being critical and disapproving of one another. Finally, there is …

5. Disappointment. You become disillusioned. I've heard people say, “I feel cheated. I got in this marriage and now I have these secret feelings of regret. I feel trapped and I don't know how to get out of it. What have I got myself into?” The doubts come along, “Did I do the right thing? Did I marry the right person? Was I not listening to God? Why didn't I listen to my mother?” Doubts, disillusionment, and disappointment.

These five D's -- Dullness, Disagreements, Defensiveness, Disapproval, and Disappointment -- set you up for the two Big D's: depression or divorce.

Since divorce is not really an option for the disciple of Christ, a lot of times we think the only alternative is depression -- endure the misery for the rest of my life, internalize the anger. I have had people tell me, “My relationship to my wife/husband is really getting me down!” What a change between Stage 1 and Stage 2. Stage 1 -- “You make me feel so great!” Stage 2 -- “You make me feel so bad!”

There are actually three alternatives to problems in marriage, not just two. Some people breakup, some people breakdown, but God enables us to breakthrough.

Unfortunately, most marriages never get past Stage 2. The average length of a marriage in the United States is now 7.2 years. That means they never get to Stage 3. They go through the honeymoon stage. Then they get stuck in the debating stage. The party's over and everything comes crashing in. They realize, “We do have differences! We look at the world differently.” There's either a breakup or abreakdown – divorce or depression -- (“I'm just going to live in mutual co‑existence and I'm not going to like it -- but we're just going to hang in there for the rest of our lives and be miserable!”) or there is a breakthrough into Stage Three. Dr. Linda Waite, a sociologist at the University of Chicago, led a study of 5,232 married couples. The results of the study were released last year and there were three very significant findings.

1. 67% of unhappy marriages become at least moderately happy within five years – so don’t give up hope.

2. Common feelings during unhappy marriages, such as depression and low self-esteem, rarely change after divorce – so the problem may not be the marriage – it may be personal issues that have never been faced and dealt with.

3. The unhappiest marriages had the greatest turn arounds, with 78% of people who stayed in marriages they described as “very unhappy” calling themselves “happy” five years later. Reasons for the turnaround – the unhappy state motivated them to talk their problems through (often with professional help) or they simply “hung on” and outlasted their problems. (Bottom Line Personal 1/15/03, p. 10)

No matter what your problems – there is hope. If you both WANT to work on your marriage you don’t need to succumb to either breakdown or break up – you canbreak through to Stage Three.

 

STAGE THREE is described in 1 Corinthians 13, the famous chapter on love. Listen to what it says: “Love is patient (that's how you make it to stage three). Love is kind. It does not envy. It does not boast. It is not proud. It is not rude. It is not self-seeking. It is not easily angered. Love keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices in the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes and always perseveres. Love never fails.” (1 Cor 13:4-7)

Stage three in a marriage is the stage of …

III. MATURE LOVE.

That's what is described here: mature love -- not infatuation, not romanticism -- butmature love. The love that the Bible speaks about is much different than what people normally mean when they use the word "love" today.

Biblical love is much more of a commitment to act in a certain way, a choice of the mind, rather than an emotional feeling that one falls into. Love is a decision to act in the best interests of another, to defer my will to their will, to submit my desires to their desires. True love never selfishly seeks it's own ends, but unselfishly lives to please the object of its love.

One reason many marriages fail is because the "love" they share is purely emotional, perhaps more lust than love. They look for good feelings, for the excitement of each other's presence, for the emotional rush their partner gives them. But life doesn't always feel good, isn’t always exciting. What happens when that emotional rush diminishes? Such "love” -- based on the self-centered interests of what makes mefeel good -- will inevitably fail.

Biblical love is a commitment to sacrifice my life, my interests, and my desires - for the sake of another. In marriage, it's a commitment to be sensitive in determining the needs of my mate and then meeting those needs, regardless of how I feel at the moment.

It's a commitment made to faithfully love and serve one another -- for better or worse; whether my mate is vibrant and healthy or ravaged by disease or accident; whether times are good or bad – and I guarantee that there will be bad times.

Biblical love is always unconditional. Our society says:

· I'll love you if ... (you do or are a certain way).

· I love you because ... (you're so beautiful, you make me feel good).

· I love you when ... (you do something).

But if our love is conditioned upon the actions or appearance of another, it will be short-lived. Appearances change. Thirty years ago, when Karen took me for better or worse, she took someone that was 20 pounds lighter, with far less wrinkles and no gray hair. Appearances change.

Others don't always act the way we want them to act. Biblical love says, "I love you ... REGARDLESS ...” regardless of what you do, what you say, what you are -- I love you and am committed to your welfare.

This is the love God commands us to have for our mates. Now, you can't command a feeling, only a conscious choice can be commanded. Many people don’t have a relationship that lasts for a lifetime because they have never CHOSEN to love each other unselfishly and unconditionally.

Love is a choice, a decision. If you choose to love each other unselfishly and unconditionally, then you will have a relationship that will last a lifetime.

I want to give you some words that are characteristic of stage 3. I put them in an acrostic TRUST -- the only way you make it to stage three in marriage is through mutual trust.

...

[SoMovinOn]

I like your analogy here Tood. I think this method is a good way to gain a different perspective on a situation - putting a similar set of circumstances into a different scenario.

 

Looking at it from a job perspective, it's easy to see how it makes sense to take care of yourself first. The same is true in a M or R - when it's over, it makes sense to take care of yourself first as well.

 

In either scenario, the people you leave behind may feel betrayed and lied to. While that is a consideration during the relationship, once it's over, the risk is that one or both parties will make moves behind the other's back in order to prepare for the split. While you are out looking for a another job, your employer may be interviewing your replacement - without telling you. It can easily come down to who does what first.

 

In any scenario, when things are over or ending, any of the parties involved can choose to bury their head in the sand and pretend there is no problem, or they may be unintentionally clueless. That's not *you* problem, it's theirs. If they get blindsided, it's not because they didn't have all the same clues you did.

[SoMovinOn]

Really no need to take it so literally.

 

I have found, through years of online discussion, when providing an analogy, some people will choose to argue the details of the analogy, while ignoring the point the analogy is intended to make.

[woinlove]

Keeping with the analogy, you could also tell your employer you are unhappy and plan on looking at other options. At that point, your employer may fire you on the spot, leaving you unemployed and, possibly, unable to pay your bills.

 

Maybe if you are in the analogous situation and would be breaking a contract, this might be a better option. Maybe the employer would let you out of the contract, while if you just go ahead and break it, you will almost certainly pay a penalty. Otherwise, you typically are not expected to not be looking for jobs and it is more analogous to the case of casual dating, with no understanding of exclusivity. Sure go ahead and check others out in that case - there's no problem, just as there is no problem checking out other jobs.

 

It's a matter of controlling the outcome and when it happens. It is either you making the choices, or you laying everything out and allowing someone else to make the choice for you. Why would you do the latter? For honesty? Integrity? In most instances, the people on the other side of the equation would make no such considerations if the shoe were on the other foot - they'd put you out on your ass without a moments notice.

 

Personally, when it comes to my own integrity, I am much less concerned about what others would do than what I do. This is a situation where the person wants to stay married but check out other partners. As I said, they can choose to cheat if that is how they want to behave. If it is more important to you to stay married and you are willing to be dishonest and trick the person in order to stay married, then that is your choice. I would not choose that option, myself, but some people do.

[SoMovinOn]

Relationships are very different than a job or career.

 

No, they are not. You have a relationship with the people involved in your job or career. All relationships are built on the same foundations (mutual trust, respect, commitment, loyalty). From there, there are additional foundations which help define they type of relationship (such as love being one of the foundations of a romantic relationship).

[woinlove]

First not me at all, and either dating, living together, married or married with children it was just an analogy. Very few jobs have contracts that have your specific wording in them and even then are difficult to enforce.

 

I was having fun and thought it was an appropo analogy specifically where a spouse wants to ease into another relationship as opposed to just leaving with no back-up plan.

 

Really no need to take it so literally.

 

Non-exclusive relationships work just like your job analogy. Check others out whenever you want, no need to even inform your non-exclusive dating partner if you don't want and there is no understanding that you would.

[woinlove]

I have found, through years of online discussion, when providing an analogy, some people will choose to argue the details of the analogy, while ignoring the point the analogy is intended to make.

 

I'm not ignoring the point as I understand the idea that marriage might just be a convenient backup plan for people who want to cheat - it is just that I disagree with it and am trying to make my own point. You aren't ignoring the point I am trying to make, are you? :laugh: No, I'm sure you simply disagree with me. Which is fine.

[SoMovinOn]

Maybe if you are in the analogous situation and would be breaking a contract, this might be a better option. Maybe the employer would let you out of the contract, while if you just go ahead and break it, you will almost certainly pay a penalty. Otherwise, you typically are not expected to not be looking for jobs and it is more analogous to the case of casual dating, with no understanding of exclusivity. Sure go ahead and check others out in that case - there's no problem, just as there is no problem checking out other jobs.

 

There is always a contract, in the form of an agreement. There is an understanding. In any job, both parties feel some amount of security in the agreement, whether it is written, verbal, or even unspoken - The employer will not be trying to hire someone to replace you, you will not be looking for a job elsewhere. The expectation is, as long as both parties are fulfilling the obligations of the agreement, neither will break it.

 

The problem, in a job or a relationship, is when the obligations of the agreement are not being fulfilled and one party refuses to accept that reality.

[woinlove]

There is always a contract, in the form of an agreement. There is an understanding. In any job, both parties feel some amount of security in the agreement, whether it is written, verbal, or even unspoken - The employer will not be trying to hire someone to replace you, you will not be looking for a job elsewhere. The expectation is, as long as both parties are fulfilling the obligations of the agreement, neither will break it.

 

The problem, in a job or a relationship, is when the obligations of the agreement are not being fulfilled and one party refuses to accept that reality.

 

Not in any job I've been in. I've only been required to give due notice not to assure my employer that I will not look at other jobs.

[norajane]

What I was trying to say is why not be in an affair prior to leaving your spouse, if that is what has happened in your marriage.

 

Many people in affairs never leave their marriages, nor do they want to, even if things are rocky.

 

But some people do have exit affairs. The thing is, they don't necessarily end up with the person they had the exit affair with. Once they're out of the marriage, they also drop their affair partner.

[woinlove]

Many people in affairs never leave their marriages, nor do they want to, even if things are rocky.

 

But some people do have exit affairs. The thing is, they don't necessarily end up with the person they had the exit affair with. Once they're out of the marriage, they also drop their affair partner.

 

Yes, often exit affairs are more about ending the M, than about finding a new partner.

[KathyM]

Posted this within a thread in Infidelity section as the woman did not blame her spouse for cheating as she really did not listen to his concerns and was oblivious to the hurt and strain on the marriage she was causing (to paraphrase).

 

Got me thinking....

 

Let's look at this like a job. You start at the company and have great hopes. Work hard and are rewarded for your successes, wined, dined and paid well. You move up the ranks, have successes, maybe some duds and failures, however everyone is quite happy. Then you hit the roadblock. You try and make it work, but things are not improving and management/superiors really don't care when you bring these concerns forward. You continue to make overtures that you want some changes and are met with indifference and are sloughed off.

 

Eventually you realize you have hit the ceiling or maybe they are looking to move out or replace you. You start looking elsewhere. The company down the street looks interesting and you talk to them. You have no assets with the current company or anything tying you there (i.e. kids). If you do you formulate how this will be divided or handled when you leave.

 

You aren't dumb and just going to leave without a fallback plan, money or a job offer so you pursue the company hard and they do too.

 

You may actually do some consulting for them on your time to show your skill and expertise.

 

You pull the trigger and you tell your company you're gone. Some make a counter offer, some let you walk. Seldom do they scream you betrayed them.

 

I was impressed in the other thread that the OP was honest in her assessment. Was she completely honest? I don't know, but it was refreshing to read a WOMAN admit her role.

 

Sorry I do not support or condone cheating, but more and more I can empathize as to why it happens.

 

I hope she has learned and grown from this and will be a better person in the end.

If you want to use the job analogy, how about looking at it this way: The man enters into a contract with a company to devote all of his working hours to this company, and signs a noncompete agreement, and he is paid handsomely for it. His employer invests a lot of time into training him, and rewards him with bonuses, overlooks his mistakes on the job, assuming they are not grave ones, and treats this employee with loyalty and respect. Then comes a road block, the man starts becoming dissatisfied with his job, and his complaints to the company falls on deaf ears. So he breaches his contract and sells his knowledge and expertise, gained through the training paid for by the company he contracted with, to a competitor company on the side while still collecting a full paycheck from the original company and still going to work every day at the original company, pretending to devote all his time and attention to his job at the original company, but all the time he is sitting at his desk, collecting his paycheck, he is Emailing his work product and expertise to the competitor company and getting paid by both companies at the same time. He doesn't want to give up the paycheck from the original company, so he stays there and pretends to be a loyal employee, while collecting a paycheck from both companies and spending some of his work time promised to the original company to promote the business from a competitor company. He's thinking of an exit plan how to leave the original company without giving notice of his leaving to the original company to enable them to find a replacement. You don't see anything wrong with this scenario? That he's collecting a paycheck from both companies, breaching his contract with the first company, spending his time and effort for the competing company while pretending to be a loyal employee and coming to work every day to his original employer, and then cheating them out of his time and leaving them high and dry without notice of leaving while he is actually working for the competing company? Pretty dishonest stuff, whether it's as an employee, or as a spouse. Far better to honor his contract with the original employer, or at the very least, not be collecting a paycheck from two employers and cheating his original employer out of what the original employer is paying him for, and be honest to that original employer that you are not satisfied with the job any longer and are planning to leave. That would enable the employer to find a replacement so they are not left high and dry. Heaven forbid, the guy is without a woman for a short period of time after giving up the wife.

Edited October 29, 2011 by KathyM
Needing to change some language

[alexandria35]

Most cheaters aren't actually prospecting for a new spouse. They just want to cheat. How many OW have we seen on Loveshack who have been waiting years for their MM to make a choice? How may stories have we read about the MM tossing the OW under the bus the second the BS gets a whiff of the affair? Cheaters want it all. They want their wife AND the OW.

 

In real life your job analogy would go more like this: I'm working for a company for years. The job has gotten boring, I don't feel appreciated, my employers aren't giving me the attention they used to. I start talking to other companies about the possibility of leaving my current job and coming to work for them. One company catches my eye and that company is certainly interested in me too. They go out of their way to impress me and show me all the ways that they are a better choice than my current company. Oh it sure is tempting and while I was only mildly disatisfied with my job before now I'm seeing all of my job's flaws like a big spotlight is shining on it. On the other hand I'm not sure I want to give up the career I have built up where I am. I have great relationships with my coworkers, I make good money, my boss, for all his faults and shortcoming, has always been loyal to me and we actually do get along pretty good. The other job looks so good too but what if it's not? What if quit this job and then the new job doesn't work out? Ohhh...so hard to make a decision one way or the other...so I sit on the fence and refuse to make a choice.

 

The new company is growing impatient and putting pressure on me to make a choice. I have to buy myself some time so I start making **** up just to hold them off. I tell them there is a big project I'm working on right now and I couldn't possibly abandon my current company right in the middle of it all. This works out great because not only does this make the new company back of a little they are also impressed by my loyalty in standing behind my commitments. Now they like me even more than they did already. They think I have honor and integrity because they don't know that I'm just making **** up to get them off my back.

 

One night while I'm out dining with the bigwig from the new company I run into some coworkers from my current company. They look puzzled because they all know who this bigwig is and they wonder why I'm having dinner with him. They don't say anything but I can see the questioning look in their eyes. It's uncomfortable but the bigwig doesn't seem all that fazed. When he sees that I'm not happy about the encounter he asks "well what are you so worried about? You're leaving that company anyways and coming to work for us so who cares who finds out?" The next day my boss says he heard about it and is also wondering about it. Dammit!! I'm not ready to decide yet and now I'm being questioned by everyone. Dammit! Now I gotta make some **** up for my boss too. I tell him that I wasn't seeing that guy about business, were just old friends and we were out catching up with each other.

 

I think I'm pretty clever but I also see that I have planted the first seeds of doubt both in my current employers mind and the possible new employers mind. The more time that goes by the more paralyzed I become with indecision. What if I leave my current job and the new job turns out to be crap? Then I'll have no job. What If I just decide to stay forever at my current job and it never gets any better than it is right now? Will I always regret letting that other job get away? Everyone thinks I'm a great guy what will they think when I jump ship and go work for the competition? Will I lose the respect of everyone in my business community? I've been telling the prospective new company insider secrets of my current company. If I refuse the new job will they tell my boss that I betrayed the trust of the company? Oh my God!! what am I going to do? How am I going to get out of this?

 

In the end I decide to just not decide. I keep doing exactly what I'm doing. Keep telling crap to the new company about how I'll be coming to work for them any day now and whenever my current boss hears anything about me hanging out at the new company I just tell him he's being paranoid for nothing. Were not doing anything!! we're just friends for pete's sake!! I let this go on and on, digging myself deeper and deeper until the other parties involved start to wise up. My boss says 'look if you want to leave and work somewhere else than just do it already' I jump up and down and swear on my life that I don't want to leave, that I've told that other company I'm not interest but they just won't leave me alone. The boss at the new company says 'look we're tired of waiting for you. If you don't want the job just tell us so we can find someone else' I jump up and down and swear on my life that I absolutely want the job but my current company is trying to make me stay there with threats and blackmail. They even gave my parking spot away, can you believe that?

 

Eventually the new company tires of the wait and starts scouting out other candidates for the job. I'm still in touch with them but they are drifting away. When I stopped in the other day they didn't even look all that happy to see me. That's okay, I never felt like I could trust them anyways. I'm still at my old job but my behaviour has caused a lot of tension and I know my boss doesn't have the same faith in me that he used to.I kind of wish things could go back to the way they were before I started looking to leave the company. It wasn't perfect but at least I had the respect and trust of my company. Oh woe is me!!

[findingnemo]

If you're going to use analogies, the more detailed the better. Kathy and Alexandria's version sound like really sh*tty behaviour.

 

No, its not right to search for a "future"partner while still married. There's no justifying the resulting pain by saying that one needed to know where they were going before they left. IMO.

[OpenBook]

No, they are not. You have a relationship with the people involved in your job or career. All relationships are built on the same foundations (mutual trust, respect, commitment, loyalty).

 

Not in a Right To Work state (otherwise known as "employment at will").

 

Sorry, I don't agree that a job and a marriage can be effectively compared in an analogy. There's multiple 3rd parties involved in a job (state & federal law; CEO's with a mission; stockholders). And companies certainly don't "love" their employees. They're commodities to be used & discarded when they become too expensive.

 

Of course, you're welcome to knock yourself out comparing that last one to a marriage.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I like your analogies too.... I have often said that while there are serial cheaters, the one's I use in examples are the vast majority, stuck in marriages they are not happy with and not sure what they want.

 

The point was most people do not feel comfortable enough to cut all ties and start looking from scratch and like to know they already have something lined up. Not right in many a case, just an observation.

 

And Kathy and Alexandria I stated that they had invested in the company and worked hard and now there are roadblocks in the way and they are at a dead end....

 

Was just having fun in any case.

[MissBee]

And, as I said, if you don't mind lying and deceiving, then that may work for you. On the other hand, if you want to be an honest and trustworthy person, then you can tell your spouse how you feel and what you plan to do and, yes your spouse may choose to separate or divorce you. It all comes down to how you want to behave, doesn't it?

As I also said, unless you are under a contract which restricts you from taking another job, there is typically no agreement or understanding between you and your employer that you will not look for another job. If you do have a contact and want to violate it, you may have to pay a penalty.

 

I think that the job analogy doesn't account for certain factors present in a marriage. I get what the OP is saying...except, as you pointed out, with a job there is NO expectation that your employee can never find another job or look for one while still working for you. In fact, the employers sometimes look for other people too to take over your job without your knowledge. So I'd say depending on your job....it is really not comparable to a monogamous relationship based on fidelity...but more so an open relationship that is polyamorous lol. There is an understanding that you work for me now, but you can fire me and I can quit if I feel like it. We're going to do it as decently as possible and lawfully, but don't get too comfortable in believing that you're my one and only. Not to mention jobs have other employees and those relations that work more communally versus a one-to-one relationship between you and your employer (which is more polygamous).

 

Also, different professions have different standards of behavior that are considered proper etiquette...likewise the etiquette of business and interpersonal/romantic relationships are not the same,so that weakens the analogy. What is proper to do in the field of law may not be proper as a clergyman; so too, what is proper protocol in a business/professional relationship may not be proper in a romantic relationship.

 

In a marriage people vow until death do them part and to forsake all others (you get the idea...I do realize perhaps not all people literally said this in their vows). A marriage isn't a business arrangement (unless it really is) so the standards of communicating, honesty, openness, transparency and communication look different than that of a business arrangement. Different games, different rules, although they may look similar or sometimes overlap. Also the concept of love does not factor into a business/job situation....and that aspect of love complicates matters more than anything else and is very particular to romantic involvement...making romance a very unique thing for us humans.

 

In any case, I do understand why some people resort to cheating. I do get it. It is no mystery to me. Understanding why people do something though and believing it is the best thing to do is another matter. In terms of believing that one should have an affair and outside safety blanket before leaving one's spouse...what's the point? I mean if you are unhappy with them, you try to communicate etc to no avail, wouldn't you STILL be unhappy whether or not you found someone new? So the idea that you need to check out others before you leave doesn't make sense. With a job, it makes sense, as if you need money, you're going to need another job, so you need to look for a new one.Although, some people are so stressed and unhappy with their job that they leave before finding a new one. However, you don't need another spouse so you leaving shouldn't be predicated upon whether or not you find another man/woman. If you leave your job without finding a new job, you may be unable to provide for yourself. If you leave your spouse without finding a new spouse...you'll be A-ok.

 

No one is going to get up one day and ask for a divorce on the first sign of issues. That's foolish. But keeping the lines of communication open to say that is probably on the horizon, beginning to organize a separation etc. in the open is what makes sense...not secretly having an affair...as in the end, you're still going to have to deal with your divorce and all that.

 

Therefore I believe in leaving a relationship on the basis of that relationship in itself isn't doing it for you...it's not like you need to find someone new to realize this...you already know!

Edited October 29, 2011 by MissBee

[Toodamnpragmatic]

But shouldn't the point of a marriage and a job be to keep each other happy so they don't look elsewhere. A job may do it by offering job security, a good work environment, perks, benefits, opportunity for advancement, and dynamic work environment (pick the appropriate analogy for each in a marriage).... The employee is then expected to work hard to earn that trust and those things within the job.

 

When either fail on their end of the bargain, the employee looks elsewhere (i.e. what starts as an EA, may end as a PA) and the employer looks to terminate the employee (divorce,separation), or if discovered makes the choice to counter-offer or let them go.....

Edited October 30, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic