sayitasitis Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Please don't lash out at me. I'm not committing any crime or silly enough to not know the consequences. I just want honest, non-judgmental, opinions. I have this amazing connection with this guy I met online. Granted, we haven't met so the connection could all be crushed in real life. I have no intention of meeting him ever because he's still married even though the marriage, as he claims, hasn't worked for a long time. They're together for the benefit of his 3 kids. I enjoy my virtual time with him. But I'm torn between my morality and seeing him as a friend I can connect with on many levels. And I don't want to get so attached I hate myself. Should I stop helping him cheat on his wife mentally? Should I stop giving him the benefit of having me (even virtually)? Separated men and those men in this still-married situation, please weigh in.
loversquarrel Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 If the only time you have "spent" with him has been online, do yourself a favor and move on away from him. This guy sounds like the type I hear about all the time....he's looking for an affair and if you give it to him he'll take it and that will be it. If he says he's only in it for the kids then I would back off immediately as his intestinal fortitude sucks, a real man with character and confidence would have been divorced by now if things were really that bad. I am divorced, but have alot of friends that are married and have relationships on the side, and let me tell you THEY JUST WON'T LEAVE THIER WIVES. Giving up your moral character over this is too large a sacrifice, think of your future - You may end up meeting Mr. Right down the road and if he finds out you engaged in an affair with a married man, your value will plummet. Trust me on this.
whichwayisup Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 I have this amazing connection with this guy I met online. Granted, we haven't met so the connection could all be crushed in real life. He's lying. Why even bother with this guy, so what if there's a connection? he's married, and has kids..And is messing around online with you. I have no intention of meeting him ever because he's still married even though the marriage, as he claims, hasn't worked for a long time. They're together for the benefit of his 3 kids. How do you know he's telling you the truth? So he is only staying married because of the kids. Has he told you that he doesn't have sex with his wife? Sleep in separate bedrooms? Don't waste energy on someone whom chances are, you're not going to meet. Let alone that he's married, has kids. He's not free, so he shouldn't be offering himself up to you.
january2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 I agree with whichwayisup. I don't think internet strangers giving you permission/justification for continuing this 'relationship' is the way to go with this one when you said it yourself: I have no intention of meeting him ever because he's still married I don't want to get so attached I hate myself. You might have this "amazing connection" but his circumstances don't allow you to get what you want out of this unless all you're after is just sex rather than a fully committed partner. And even then, you have to overcome your internal conflict. How far do you see this going if you're not even prepared to meet him and you don't want to invest more of your heart? It's a non-issue. Break it off before the self-hate begins.
OliveOyl Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Please don't lash out at me. I'm not committing any crime or silly enough to not know the consequences. I just want honest, non-judgmental, opinions. I have this amazing connection with this guy I met online. Granted, we haven't met so the connection could all be crushed in real life. I have no intention of meeting him ever because he's still married even though the marriage, as he claims, hasn't worked for a long time. They're together for the benefit of his 3 kids. I enjoy my virtual time with him. But I'm torn between my morality and seeing him as a friend I can connect with on many levels. And I don't want to get so attached I hate myself. Should I stop helping him cheat on his wife mentally? Should I stop giving him the benefit of having me (even virtually)? Separated men and those men in this still-married situation, please weigh in. He doesn't sound separated. He sounds married-married. Does he live apart from his wife? Is he meeting with a lawyer drafting up papers? Virtual cheating is still cheating. Even if the marriage isn't working out. Being in an online/virtual relationship isn't the real deal, and being with a married guy isn't the real deal either. Do you really want to be strung along--that is, invest all your emotional energy--in a virtual relationship with a guy who isn't available? That's not much of anything.... for you.
oaks Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 This sounds like a case of married people giving separated people a bad name. He isn't separated. He's married, but not enjoying it and (by the sound of it) looking to cheat.
Leegh Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 The fact that he's honest enough to say that he is married and has 3 kids is not a bad sign. He's truthful about it; that he is indeed married. I have known people who remained married, for the kids, financial reasons, etc., but had left the marriage "emotionally" years before. He may be one of those types, I don't know. Unless you really, really feel that there is a strong connection, to be on the safe side, it may be best not to see him. Usually, when men leave their wives for other women, it's within six months. I would try meeting some single guys, it's less stressful.
KathyM Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Don't allow yourself to play a part in the breakup of this guy's marriage by having an emotional affair with him. He is still married and living with his wife and kids. He is not separated. Separated means actually leaving the wife and living apart. He is just looking for something on the side. Don't allow yourself to be played by this guy. Don't waste your emotional energy on some guy that is not available. You deserve better, and you deserve someone who can actually be there for you completely. This is not someone worth your time and energy. This is a cheater--don't be an enabler.
Author sayitasitis Posted October 29, 2011 Author Posted October 29, 2011 If the only time you have "spent" with him has been online, do yourself a favor and move on away from him. This guy sounds like the type I hear about all the time....he's looking for an affair and if you give it to him he'll take it and that will be it. If he says he's only in it for the kids then I would back off immediately as his intestinal fortitude sucks, a real man with character and confidence would have been divorced by now if things were really that bad. I am divorced, but have alot of friends that are married and have relationships on the side, and let me tell you THEY JUST WON'T LEAVE THIER WIVES. Giving up your moral character over this is too large a sacrifice, think of your future - You may end up meeting Mr. Right down the road and if he finds out you engaged in an affair with a married man, your value will plummet. Trust me on this. I did wonder why he's not divorced by now if his marriage is not working out. But assuming he's saying the truth about the kids, I get it. Not great, but in general even if it wasn't him and we didn't have a connection and even if it was someone else, I get it. I don't think I want a long-term relationship with him. I know it's not going to happen but the connection is so strong it's even weird. How do you know he's telling you the truth? So he is only staying married because of the kids. Has he told you that he doesn't have sex with his wife? Sleep in separate bedrooms? Don't waste energy on someone whom chances are, you're not going to meet. Let alone that he's married, has kids. He's not free, so he shouldn't be offering himself up to you. According to him, they sleep in separate bedrooms and they haven't had sex. I'm not saying I buy it or don't. I'm answering your question. You're right. He's not free. Even though I told him we'll never meet, I wonder whether he would meet in a public place, if meeting was an option. How far do you see this going if you're not even prepared to meet him and you don't want to invest more of your heart? It's a non-issue. Break it off before the self-hate begins. I guess I enjoy talking to him like we're together. It's probably a little like a long-distance relationship. We don't meet (for LDR couples, they meet a few times a year) so we rely on the phone and emails and IMs. I considered breaking the online thing off. But it's so tough. He's like a good friend, someone you want in your life whether you meet or not. Do you really want to be strung along--that is, invest all your emotional energy--in a virtual relationship with a guy who isn't available? That's not much of anything.... for you. I'm not sure he's stringing me along. He knows we won't get to meet. My terms. The fact that he's honest enough to say that he is married and has 3 kids is not a bad sign. He's truthful about it; that he is indeed married. I have known people who remained married, for the kids, financial reasons, etc., but had left the marriage "emotionally" years before. He may be one of those types, I don't know. Unless you really, really feel that there is a strong connection, to be on the safe side, it may be best not to see him. Usually, when men leave their wives for other women, it's within six months. I would try meeting some single guys, it's less stressful. I did think that he's truthful about it and is willing to discuss it when I bring it up. Though I know it's not some Mother Theresa trait in his case. He said he's mentally checked out for years. I know, a bad sign. Don't allow yourself to play a part in the breakup of this guy's marriage by having an emotional affair with him. He is still married and living with his wife and kids. He is not separated. Separated means actually leaving the wife and living apart. He is just looking for something on the side. Don't allow yourself to be played by this guy. Don't waste your emotional energy on some guy that is not available. You deserve better, and you deserve someone who can actually be there for you completely. This is not someone worth your time and energy. This is a cheater--don't be an enabler. I kind of feel it's because I've been played out by single men that now I wonder so what about them? Even if they're available. I'm not looking for a real affair with this guy but at least he gives me that connection I was looking for in a single man.
carhill Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Not all separated men are bad. Separation can mean a lot of things, all of which can be qualified. Then, decide if those things match up with what you want. Example (not advice): You want a LTR. If so, then the separated man would necessarily need to be in the same place if he was to be compatible. Evidence of his perspective could be talking about his own living space, describing it, sending pictures. It could be providing you with the progress of his legal separation or divorce that you could verify with the court. It could be pictures of him and his children out and about by themselves. It could be availability at any time via land line or cell phone. Lots of examples. I dated while separated. It was a non-issue. My exW and I had started the divorce process, she lived 30 miles away in her own home and we had a nice paper trail at the court showing all of it. The ladies I dated were met through OLD and my profile notated that I was separated. Not very exciting, huh? Yeah, but that's life. I'll tell you something I noticed. When I was married, women came out of the woodwork, something I had never experienced in the 20-something years prior to getting married. As soon as the wedding ring came off, meaning I was single, they disappeared again. Interesting how that works. Good luck and stay safe.
Leegh Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 I don't see that as a bad sign of his character that he's checked out emotionally from his wife. Lots of good, decent people lose interest in their spouse, it's nothing unusual. It would be a lot worse if he told you that he still loved his wife, as it would show really bad character on his part if he loved his wife and was trying to meet new ladies on the side. If his children are young, he may be staying because of them.
Author sayitasitis Posted October 29, 2011 Author Posted October 29, 2011 Not all separated men are bad. Separation can mean a lot of things, all of which can be qualified. Then, decide if those things match up with what you want. Example (not advice): You want a LTR. If so, then the separated man would necessarily need to be in the same place if he was to be compatible. Evidence of his perspective could be talking about his own living space, describing it, sending pictures. It could be providing you with the progress of his legal separation or divorce that you could verify with the court. It could be pictures of him and his children out and about by themselves. It could be availability at any time via land line or cell phone. Lots of examples. I dated while separated. It was a non-issue. My exW and I had started the divorce process, she lived 30 miles away in her own home and we had a nice paper trail at the court showing all of it. The ladies I dated were met through OLD and my profile notated that I was separated. Not very exciting, huh? Yeah, but that's life. I'll tell you something I noticed. When I was married, women came out of the woodwork, something I had never experienced in the 20-something years prior to getting married. As soon as the wedding ring came off, meaning I was single, they disappeared again. Interesting how that works. Good luck and stay safe. I'm not attracted to married men. I didn't seek him out. I chatted with him knowing he's "separated" but I didn't think much of it. It was only after chatting that I felt we clicked and other things fell together. I want a LTR and I've told him how he can't give me what I want. He's sent me photos and given me his numbers. I'm skeptical so I don't think all these mean all that much. But I know other so-called separated men won't do those things. They don't want paper trail. I never asked whether he would leave his wife since he said he's in this for his kids and it's been years so I don't think he would do it now. I don't see that as a bad sign of his character that he's checked out emotionally from his wife. Lots of good, decent people lose interest in their spouse, it's nothing unusual. It would be a lot worse if he told you that he still loved his wife, as it would show really bad character on his part if he loved his wife and was trying to meet new ladies on the side. If his children are young, he may be staying because of them. His children are in their teens and under 10. I know what you mean about him telling me he's checked out emotionally. But I have no way of verifying it. I don't know for sure what's going on his life. He's told me to ask him questions about his case and that he would answer them. I kind of tell myself I would end it sometime but I don't know when I would have the heart to completely cut it off.
carhill Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Should I stop helping him cheat on his wife mentally? Should I stop giving him the benefit of having me (even virtually)? Answering this question narrowly, I'd need context. What exactly is going on 'virtually'? Is this an emotional support thing or are you and he having cybersex? An easy way to tell the difference, presuming you're hetero, is would you carry on such discourse with a close girlfriend? I know how intimate girlfriends can be. Does it go like that, or is it the same kind of flirtatious and sexual interaction you'd normally have with a man? The reason I ask that question is because I had a quite damaging EA which never included sexual innuendos or perspectives or interactions. The deciding factor? Feelings, of which such de-prioritized the marriage. I wouldn't want you to be a knowing part of that, not because the man has decided that the M is over and he's staying for the children, but rather because you have no idea what his partner knows about or has decided. If they're in agreement, then that. If not, that. In my case, my EA partner and spouse worked it out independently. There was no hiding and no 'virtual'. That's one kind of 'separation'. Your experience will be unique to you. Many years ago, I invested a lot like you're investing now, except in real life, with a separated person. I was young and pretty ignorant and got in over my head and it took a long time to recover from that. The telling part is that it was the same person who later would 'interact independently' with my spouse. So my advice would be to pass on the 'connection'. BTDT, paid the price. Wouldn't want you to go through anything like it.
Author sayitasitis Posted October 29, 2011 Author Posted October 29, 2011 Answering this question narrowly, I'd need context. What exactly is going on 'virtually'? Is this an emotional support thing or are you and he having cybersex? An easy way to tell the difference, presuming you're hetero, is would you carry on such discourse with a close girlfriend? I know how intimate girlfriends can be. Does it go like that, or is it the same kind of flirtatious and sexual interaction you'd normally have with a man? The reason I ask that question is because I had a quite damaging EA which never included sexual innuendos or perspectives or interactions. The deciding factor? Feelings, of which such de-prioritized the marriage. I wouldn't want you to be a knowing part of that, not because the man has decided that the M is over and he's staying for the children, but rather because you have no idea what his partner knows about or has decided. If they're in agreement, then that. If not, that. In my case, my EA partner and spouse worked it out independently. There was no hiding and no 'virtual'. That's one kind of 'separation'. Your experience will be unique to you. Many years ago, I invested a lot like you're investing now, except in real life, with a separated person. I was young and pretty ignorant and got in over my head and it took a long time to recover from that. The telling part is that it was the same person who later would 'interact independently' with my spouse. So my advice would be to pass on the 'connection'. BTDT, paid the price. Wouldn't want you to go through anything like it. We talk about everything under the sky and we click in the different subjects we talk about, which is rare. We also have cybersex. He does it for me all around (i.e. almost every aspect of my life). I may not talk in the same way with a close girlfriend because the flirting and sex part would be weird already. But other discussions I could have with them. I don't know whether his wife knows what he does. He's quite available, at least online, so it doesn't seem like he has a lot of life in his marriage. What do you mean by the same person later interacted independently with your spouse?
carhill Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 What do you mean by the same person later interacted independently with your spouse? We went out to dinner with she and her boyfriend and they interacted independently after that. Since she wasn't 'new', my exW knew of my past experiences with her long before we got married. So, there was really nothing to hide. He's quite available, at least online, so it doesn't seem like he has a lot of life in his marriage. I remember, as one example, chatting with my EA partner online while my exW was watching American Idol sitting not three feet away. BTDT, giving you the real scoop on how it can go. Doesn't mean it goes that way every time, just one potential. Difference is, I'm divorced now; he's not yet. If you go back to my early posts on LS, you'll see the process. I was in the middle of that 'stuff' when I joined LS. He's going to stay for the children, it seems. OK, go with that; accept it. What's your plan?
Author sayitasitis Posted October 29, 2011 Author Posted October 29, 2011 We went out to dinner with she and her boyfriend and they interacted independently after that. Since she wasn't 'new', my exW knew of my past experiences with her long before we got married. So, there was really nothing to hide. I remember, as one example, chatting with my EA partner online while my exW was watching American Idol sitting not three feet away. BTDT, giving you the real scoop on how it can go. Doesn't mean it goes that way every time, just one potential. Difference is, I'm divorced now; he's not yet. If you go back to my early posts on LS, you'll see the process. I was in the middle of that 'stuff' when I joined LS. He's going to stay for the children, it seems. OK, go with that; accept it. What's your plan? In your case, it was all out in the open. So that was good. I would imagine him on his computer with his kids and wife nearby even if in different rooms. Sometimes he would stop to do other things and tell me he'll come back in a bit. I don't have a plan. Going with the flow. I don't think I'll meet him. At least I can't allow myself to even though I would want to. The strange thing is he seems a better person than the other single guys I know. Or maybe because I have less expectation of him that I think that. I'm a little scared because I'm starting to get jealous of the thought that he's out there chatting with other girls too. I have no right to since his case already doesn't permit me feeling that way and the fact that I won't meet him means he has the right to find someone who would.
january2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 he has the right to find someone who would. You also have the right to find someone who is free so that you can have the LTR that you want. He's married, he has kids, he's still living with his ex-wife, he's not going to leave her, he's talking to other girls, you won't meet him. How much further from a fulfilling and committed LTR does the situation have to be before you see that it's not giving you what you want and that all you'll end up with is a world of hurt? You've invested a lot of emotional energy into this EA that's not going to go anywhere. And in the meantime, there's someone out there who is free who you're not investing in because you're looking the other way. Given how much you are justifying your position and his, I don't think you really care about the answer to your thread topic. It seems you just want validation that what you're doing is okay. I don't think many people on this thread have said that it is. Will you listen to us and break it off? I'm not sure that you will. Until you can see that you're not going to get what you really want out of this situation, I think you're going to carry on investing because for the moment he fulfils your emotional needs even if he can't fulfil anything else. I would say be careful of your heart and dignity, but I'm afraid that it's probably too late.
carhill Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Married people can appear more 'open' because there's no downside to it. They have the safety and comfort, even if tenuous at times, of their M. It's a different vibe than a single person sends out. I've noted this markedly with MW's; the 'vulnerability'. Men operate differently, but the openness is still there, and that can be attractive. If the situation with you doesn't work out, there's always home life and the next potential. So, what do you do right now when men approach you in real life?
Author sayitasitis Posted October 29, 2011 Author Posted October 29, 2011 Married people can appear more 'open' because there's no downside to it. They have the safety and comfort, even if tenuous at times, of their M. It's a different vibe than a single person sends out. I've noted this markedly with MW's; the 'vulnerability'. Men operate differently, but the openness is still there, and that can be attractive. If the situation with you doesn't work out, there's always home life and the next potential. So, what do you do right now when men approach you in real life? Actually I still go out with men in real life. No difference. This separated guy is just a nice distraction when there are no good single men or no dates. And he's like a friend (even though most won't believe it). Only a little more since we like each other. I do get annoyed that he can still have his marriage to go back to no matter how bad it may be. I've told him that but he said he's still a human being with feelings so if we don't make it, he would also be upset.
carhill Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 How often would you say you talk on the phone? Is he generally chatty? Most men aren't chatty with women unless they're gay or trying to sweet-talk the woman into something. An exception might be a man with a more 'feminine' personality. What's your take on that? Do you talk about your dates with him?
Author sayitasitis Posted October 29, 2011 Author Posted October 29, 2011 How often would you say you talk on the phone? Is he generally chatty? Most men aren't chatty with women unless they're gay or trying to sweet-talk the woman into something. An exception might be a man with a more 'feminine' personality. What's your take on that? Do you talk about your dates with him? We text or IM more than we chat on the phone. We have short calls a few times a week. Not heavy stuff but just checking in. I talk about some of my dates with him. He doesn't like it, or at least he tells me that. Maybe he doesn't care but I don't know. Do you have enough context to answer my question?
loversquarrel Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 It seems to me all you're looking for from us is a justification for you to have an affair with this guy. Just about every response you have received about this has been met with a "yeah but". You haven't even met him in person, how can it really be that difficult to walk away from that??? If you can't then what do you think you will be able to do after you get intimate with him??? I guarantee if you can't walk away now, you sure as **** won't be able to then. At this point you can still prevent much hurt and a societal stigma as being labled a homewrecker. Don't be stupid, the very fact you have to post about this speaks volumes of what your really thinking about this deep down. Find the strength and don't give up on yourself, its one thing if you get hurt by someone, but its that much worse if you are the one that lets it happen. Also, imo, bad marriage or not, staying just because of the kids is no reason to stay...people eff thier kids up more doing that instead of just getting a divorce. They also cheat themselves out of being able to meet someone very special, 2 happy seperated parents are better than 2 still together miserable ones.
OliveOyl Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) I had written: Do you really want to be strung along--that is, invest all your emotional energy--in a virtual relationship with a guy who isn't available? That's not much of anything.... for you. to which you replied: I'm not sure he's stringing me along. He knows we won't get to meet. My terms. My main point was that this is at least two degrees removed from a real relationship (e.g. a relationship in the real-life physical space. I'm not denying that there are real feelings between you two). It may be fine for now but at some point you will want more. You will. Do you really want to invest your energy in something that is so removed? How will you feel if a few years from now all you have to look back on is that you were typing over the computer (or webcamming, or whatever) instead of finding a relationship of "your own" that has a lot more potential? And yes... this DOES have the potential to suck up all your emotional energy so you have no interest in getting out or working things out in the "real" world. I speak from experience. Edited October 29, 2011 by OliveOyl
Author sayitasitis Posted October 30, 2011 Author Posted October 30, 2011 I had written: Do you really want to be strung along--that is, invest all your emotional energy--in a virtual relationship with a guy who isn't available? That's not much of anything.... for you. to which you replied: My main point was that this is at least two degrees removed from a real relationship (e.g. a relationship in the real-life physical space. I'm not denying that there are real feelings between you two). It may be fine for now but at some point you will want more. You will. Do you really want to invest your energy in something that is so removed? How will you feel if a few years from now all you have to look back on is that you were typing over the computer (or webcamming, or whatever) instead of finding a relationship of "your own" that has a lot more potential? And yes... this DOES have the potential to suck up all your emotional energy so you have no interest in getting out or working things out in the "real" world. I speak from experience. I guess it's not far from the truth that I think I may want more later on. At that point, if it feels like a "breakup" I may have no energy to go out and meet real guys. But perhaps at this stage he's a refreshing change because I've met a lot of jerks in real life so he's like a "safe" place in virtual space for me.
FitChick Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 The OP doesn't want a long term relationship. She is terrified to be in one, to make the investment of time and emotion and risk being rejected in real life by a man. So she has this safe fantasy relationship with someone who will skillfully worm his way into her life and heart and bed, then dump her saying, "Well, you knew I was married. I never lied to you." Classic! The pain will be far worse than all the rejections in real life by men with whom you had a few quick dates and there was no chemistry. You will be heavily invested in this married man. Let's hope his wife doesn't come after you. There are some states that still have laws on the books where the other woman or man can be sued by the spouse for alienation of affection. Better that than a shotgun, I guess.
Recommended Posts