GreenPolicy Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Here's the situation: After my last serious relationship ended a year ago, I was lonely and set up an OKCupid profile. Online dating is tedious and time-consuming and I got to a point about a month ago where I thought it would be a good idea to take a break for a couple of months and work on myself before trying to date again. I had resolved to disable my account when I got a message from a very attractive girl. She seemed cool and we exchanged a series of messages, but I couldn't shake the nagging feeling that I was in a bad place mentally trying to force things to happen and decided that I should focus on letting things happen naturally in the real world and not rely on the crutch of online dating. So I disabled my account without ever setting up a meeting with her. Two weeks ago I was at a friend's birthday party where I met a girl. We ended up talking for a couple hours and really hit it off. Arranged to meet her for drinks last weekend. That went well and then she came over to my place this week and we ended up having sex. I went over to her place the next night and we had sex again. She told me couldn't wait for this weekend to come and that we'd be having lots and lots of sex. She told me she had been in a very long drought of almost two years. She's about a 6. I like her, we get along well, but she's not from here, and she wants to move back home to California for family and professional reasons in a couple of years. My life is here in Dallas where I live and grew up, and I just can't see myself ever making that kind of leap. So I'm enjoying her company, but I don't know that things are going to be viable long-term. Yesterday I ended up getting an invitation over facebook from a good friend of mine who lives in Canada and is back in town with his newlywed wife. They were throwing a wedding party/reception for all of their friends. The OKC girl from a month ago posted on the wall for this event. I did as well. So I IM'd my buddy and was like "So who is (OKC girl's real name)?" And he says "Funny you ask, because she asked me the exact same thing about you." And I explained the situation to him, how I "knew" her, and basically why I disabled my account. He tells me I should definitely come out because he thinks she wants to meet me. I met her last night at the party. She's like insanely hot, easily an 8-9, and she's got the same kind of interests and hobbies as I do. The entire time she was there, I kept kicking myself and saying to myself "You idiot!" OKC girl is originally from this area and just moved back, wants to be here long-term, and I can confirm that she is definitely single. I reactivated my OKC profile and I can see that she viewed mine within the past few days. I explained the situation to her about why I got rid of my account and she was good-natured and gracious about it. I thought I definitely should play it cool and not say anything about getting together for a date or "trying again." Sort of like, I'll be a man and take my lumps for screwing this up. She leaves early and an hour later a fb friend request shows up on my smartphone from her and I accepted. I understand that I'm if having sex every night and hanging out all the time with Cali 6 Girl, she's going to assume we're a couple whether or not we ever have a conversation about monogamy and exclusivity. On the one hand, it would be stupid to pass up spending time and making sexy time with a sure thing because of something that MIGHT lead to sexy time. I was asking my friends about this, and they were saying that if the ship had completely sailed with OKC Girl, she would not have been asking about me beforehand and then sending me a fb friend request afterwards. I don't want to be overestimating this girl's interest level and completely lose out on spending time with Cali 6 Girl only to find out that OKC Girl was just being nice and polite. I feel like I should be honest with the Cali 6 girl and should be setting boundaries and expectations if I want to see if there is anything at all possible with OKC Girl. I'm not a cheater and I don't want to lead anybody on. I've always been willing to give up sex if it meant that I behaved with integrity. From a logistical perspective, 6 lives five minutes away from me and 8 lives 35 minutes away from me. So would it be prudent to explain to Cali 6 girl that I understand long-term she wants to go back to California and that's a big leap for me, that we've only known each other for a couple of weeks and are still getting to know each other, and I'm seeing other people as well? If you're using protection, do you have to disclose you're sleeping with other people?
InJest Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 For now, don't bring anything up, and continue pursuing both since you have no idea what's going to happen. If Cali 6 girl brings up exclusivity or whatever, tell her that you know she wants to move back, so you don't see it going further than what you two have right now...fun. Pursue the girl that just moved back as well, and don't waste time, you've already done enough of that. Start setting up dates with her. If you find that you two really hit it off, then let Cali 6 girl know that it's not going to work out.
Survivor12 Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 " it would be stupid to pass up spending time and making sexy time with a sure thing because of something that MIGHT lead to sexy time." "I've always been willing to give up sex if it meant that I behaved with integrity." So which is it? If you are really interested in the OKCupid girl & are only keeping the other girl around as a backup for sex, it sounds to me like you're taking a big risk--particularly if you allow her to believe that you are exclusive. By allowing her to believe that you ARE then you are essentially lying to OKCG by allowing her to believe that you are available. ("Available" meaning without commitment or attachment) Oh, what a wicked web we weave... Time to ask yourself whether or not the drama and potential repercussions are worth the deception.
Author GreenPolicy Posted October 28, 2011 Author Posted October 28, 2011 For now, don't bring anything up, and continue pursuing both since you have no idea what's going to happen. If Cali 6 girl brings up exclusivity or whatever, tell her that you know she wants to move back, so you don't see it going further than what you two have right now...fun. Pursue the girl that just moved back as well, and don't waste time, you've already done enough of that. Start setting up dates with her. If you find that you two really hit it off, then let Cali 6 girl know that it's not going to work out. So I was thinking i should casually see Cali 6 once or twice a week instead of all the time. I just don't want to lead anybody on and turn around and say "Hold on, I'm a free agent" when my actions have been saying otherwise.
Survivor12 Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 "I just don't want to lead anybody on and turn around and say "Hold on, I'm a free agent" when my actions have been saying otherwise." Exactly. As long as you give neither one reason (through your actions or words) that you are exclusive, you are free to date both with a clear conscience.
Nexus One Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 I've always been willing to give up sex if it meant that I behaved with integrity. In my opinion you have to stop banging the Cali girl. 1. You're leading her on right now. 2. If you want to date the Dallas girl for a relationship, then you should stop banging Cali girl. Or atleast disclose that you're banging her, so that Dallas can make an informed choice about whether or not she wants to proceed with you. If you don't want to to go about things ethically and if you don't want to risk ruining your chances with Dallas girl. Then you should break it off with Cali girl immediately. It's not fair them either of them to secretly f*ck both of them.
Author GreenPolicy Posted October 28, 2011 Author Posted October 28, 2011 " it would be stupid to pass up spending time and making sexy time with a sure thing because of something that MIGHT lead to sexy time." "I've always been willing to give up sex if it meant that I behaved with integrity." So which is it? If you are really interested in the OKCupid girl & are only keeping the other girl around as a backup for sex, it sounds to me like you're taking a big risk--particularly if you allow her to believe that you are exclusive. By allowing her to believe that you ARE then you are essentially lying to OKCG by allowing her to believe that you are available. ("Available" meaning without commitment or attachment) Oh, what a wicked web we weave... Time to ask yourself whether or not the drama and potential repercussions are worth the deception. I don't feel like I've done anything wrong at this point or deceived anybody. OKC Girl and I did not discuss dating or anything of the sort last night, and I don't think accepting her friend request leads her on in a direction one way or the other. Cali 6 girl and I have not said anything about dating exclusively and we only met recently. I don't see a long-term future with Cali 6 girl. But I see what you are saying - I don't want to be a schmuck to anybody. The way I see it is that I don't know either of them really well at all and dating is a discovery process that either leads to parting ways or deciding to see each other exclusively. These two girls might be talking to other guys as well. I guess what I'm asking is, do I need to curtail sex with Cali 6 in order to date other girls, or can I continue to sleep with her if I use protection and let her know that I am not ready to do something exclusive?
Nexus One Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 So I was thinking i should casually see Cali 6 once or twice a week instead of all the time. I just don't want to lead anybody on and turn around and say "Hold on, I'm a free agent" when my actions have been saying otherwise. "I just don't want to lead anybody on and turn around and say "Hold on, I'm a free agent" when my actions have been saying otherwise." Exactly. As long as you give neither one reason (through your actions or words) that you are exclusive, you are free to date both with a clear conscience. If he really would have a clear conscience doing that, then he can inform them both that he's intending to f*ck them both and see how they react. I suspect that will not go down very well, you know why? Because secretly f*cking them both wouldn't be done with a clear conscience in the first place. He'd be taking away the choice from them to make an informed decision.
Survivor12 Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 "I understand that I'm if having sex every night and hanging out all the time with Cali 6 Girl, she's going to assume we're a couple whether or not we ever have a conversation about monogamy and exclusivity." "Cali 6 girl and I have not said anything about dating exclusively and we only met recently. I don't see a long-term future with Cali 6 girl." You are contradicting yourself. To answer your question (which both Nexxus and I have already), BOTH girls have a right to make informed decisions about whether to date/sleep with you and it's up to you not to misconstrue your intentions.
Nexus One Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 I guess what I'm asking is, do I need to curtail sex with Cali 6 in order to date other girls, or can I continue to sleep with her if I use protection and let her know that I am not ready to do something exclusive? There are two options. You either stop having sex with Cali girl and pursue the Dallas girl for a relationship OR you keep having sex with Cali girl and disclose both to Cali girl and Dallas girl that you intend to f*ck them both. In the last case you could be dating Dallas girl for a relationship while f*cking Cali girl, they need to know about that, otherwise it would be deception in my opinion, for the fact that you'd take the power to make an informed choice away from them.
verhrzn Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 I don't feel like I've done anything wrong at this point or deceived anybody. OKC Girl and I did not discuss dating or anything of the sort last night, and I don't think accepting her friend request leads her on in a direction one way or the other. Cali 6 girl and I have not said anything about dating exclusively and we only met recently. I don't see a long-term future with Cali 6 girl. But I see what you are saying - I don't want to be a schmuck to anybody. The way I see it is that I don't know either of them really well at all and dating is a discovery process that either leads to parting ways or deciding to see each other exclusively. These two girls might be talking to other guys as well. I guess what I'm asking is, do I need to curtail sex with Cali 6 in order to date other girls, or can I continue to sleep with her if I use protection and let her know that I am not ready to do something exclusive? It sounds like you're just using Cali 6 girl for sex. How bout you just leave her alone all together? You're not doing her any favors, even if you do make it clear you're "not ready" for exclusivity. Frankly, telling her that you're "not ready" to be exclusive is also a lie. You ARE ready to be exclusive... with a girl you're interested in. You're just not interested in Cali 6. You just want to have sex, and she is what's available. In other words-you're using her. So be the bigger person and stop it, even if it means you don't have a "sure thing" for sex.
serial muse Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 OK, hypothetical question time: How would you feel if, after a few dates (including or not including sex) with OK Cupid girl, you discovered that she has been having (protected) sex with another guy while making up her mind about you? 1. Would you feel jealous/angry/upset in any way? 2. Would you feel deceived, if she had simply "omitted" to tell you this piece of information? 3. Would you wonder about her ethics, in that she has been banging another guy as a backup? I don't think there's a right answer here, necessarily, as long as everyone is safe and everyone is on the same page. But that's kind of the point - everyone has a different threshold, and putting yourself in the opposite role is likely the fairest way to really determine your own threshold and what you really think is ethical behavior - and to make sure you're not creating any double standards.
verhrzn Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 There are two options. You either stop having sex with Cali girl and pursue the Dallas girl for a relationship OR you keep having sex with Cali girl and disclose both to Cali girl and Dallas girl that you intend to f*ck them both. In the last case you could be dating Dallas girl for a relationship while f*cking Cali girl, they need to know about that, otherwise it would be deception in my opinion, for the fact that you'd take the power to make an informed choice away from them. Yep, Nexus One has the truth of it.
Author GreenPolicy Posted October 28, 2011 Author Posted October 28, 2011 If he really would have a clear conscience doing that, then he can inform them both that he's intending to f*ck them both and see how they react. I suspect that will not go down very well, you know why? Because secretly f*cking them both wouldn't be done with a clear conscience in the first place. He'd be taking away the choice from them to make an informed decision. I guess what I'm asking is, can you be sexually active with two different girls if you use protection and tell them that you're seeing other people, or you're not yet willing to be exclusive? Because I will give up one if I have to in order to have a clear conscience and not lead them on. If I'm hanging out with Cali 6 girl every single night and we end up having sex every single night, and then one night I go out on a date with OK Cupid Girl and don't answer Cali 6 girl's texts, that's not a road I'm going down. That's sh*tty behavior. I won't let things get to that point. But if I'm seeing Cali 6 girl once or twice a week and I use protection if we do end up having sex, and we haven't had any discussions about monogamy or exclusivity, am I in the clear? I just want some feedback on ethics before I go down any bad road, because as I see it, I haven't done anything wrong yet. Cali 6 girl isn't going to be here in two years. OKC Girl will. And that's eons away. OKC Girl and I talked for like 20 minutes last night. After a couple of dates and getting to know her better, one or both of us might not want to continue to see each other and I've kicked away spending time with somebody's whose company I enjoy for a mirage.
serial muse Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 I was going to edit and add (but was too slow) - that you should also ask yourself the same series of questions about Cali girl - supposing you discovered after a few weeks or so that you were her backup? How would you feel then?
Author GreenPolicy Posted October 28, 2011 Author Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) It sounds like you're just using Cali 6 girl for sex. How bout you just leave her alone all together? You're not doing her any favors, even if you do make it clear you're "not ready" for exclusivity. No, I do like her. She's funny, she's smart, I enjoy spending time and talking to her even if we're not having sex. But she's not really a long-term option is she if Texas is not where she wants to be? I'm not going to be in a long-term relationship with somebody for 2-3 years and then have to go through the pain of losing them because uprooting my life and my entire network is something I can't do. I went through that once before of having to say goodbye to somebody for that reason and I'm not doing that again. So I think it's safe to say that I could never do anything serious with her. We are clearly having sex without any talk of exclusivity, and that street cuts both ways. I couldn't get upset if she her own version of OKC Girl. My attitude is until we agree to be exclusive, or we start spending all of our time together and common sense implies that we are behaving as a monogamous couple, neither one of us can get upset about having other options. Edited October 28, 2011 by GreenPolicy
Ruby Slippers Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Personally, I wouldn't feel right having sex with one guy and dating another, even just to test out the new guy. I just ended a FWB relationship with a guy who wanted more and with whom I did not, and all along, I knew that if I met a prospect I saw real potential with, I would immediately stop the FWB activity, even before the first date. If I were in your place, I would end it with girl #1 and go out with girl #2. If it doesn't work out, you can possibly get back with girl #1 or most likely find some other girl you're not that into just for sex.
Nexus One Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 I guess what I'm asking is, can you be sexually active with two different girls if you use protection and tell them that you're seeing other people, or you're not yet willing to be exclusive? Because I will give up one if I have to in order to have a clear conscience and not lead them on. If I'm hanging out with Cali 6 girl every single night and we end up having sex every single night, and then one night I go out on a date with OK Cupid Girl and don't answer Cali 6 girl's texts, that's not a road I'm going down. That's sh*tty behavior. I won't let things get to that point. But if I'm seeing Cali 6 girl once or twice a week and I use protection if we do end up having sex, and we haven't had any discussions about monogamy or exclusivity, am I in the clear? I just want some feedback on ethics before I go down any bad road, because as I see it, I haven't done anything wrong yet. Cali 6 girl isn't going to be here in two years. OKC Girl will. And that's eons away. OKC Girl and I talked for like 20 minutes last night. After a couple of dates and getting to know her better, one or both of us might not want to continue to see each other and I've kicked away spending time with somebody's whose company I enjoy for a mirage. I'm not sure what you're asking here. I pretty much explained the ethics dilemma of it already. Or do you mean that the only ethical issue you see here is whether or not to use a condom? You have two ethical options in my opinion: 1. Stop f*cking Cali girl and pursue Dallas girl for a relationship. 2. Or disclose to both of them that you intend to f*ck them and that you intend to date Dallas girl for a relationship while doing that. But then also first stop leading on Cali girl that you'd move out to CA with her for a relationship. If you don't do this right, then you can make quite a mess of it and indeed end up cheating in my opinion.
verhrzn Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 No, I do like her. She's funny, she's smart, I enjoy spending time and talking to her even if we're not having sex. But she's not really a long-term option is she if Texas is not where she wants to be? I'm not going to be in a long-term relationship with somebody for 2-3 years and then have to go through the pain of losing them because uprooting my life and my entire network is something I can't do. I went through that once before of having to say goodbye to somebody for that reason and I'm not doing that again. So I think it's safe to say that I could never do anything serious with her. We are clearly having sex without any talk of exclusivity, and that street cuts both ways. I couldn't get upset if she her own version of OKC Girl. My attitude is until we agree to be exclusive, or we start spending all of our time together and common sense implies that we are behaving as a monogamous couple, neither one of us can get upset about having other options. You're still using her. You don't see a long term relationship with her. This situation would only be all right if you sat her down and told her that directly. "Hey this is just a friends-with-benefits situation, I don't want to date you." If she agreed to that, then you can continue your current arrangement without overstepping ethical boundaries.
Author GreenPolicy Posted October 28, 2011 Author Posted October 28, 2011 Personally, I wouldn't feel right having sex with one guy and dating another, even just to test out the new guy. I just ended a FWB relationship with a guy who wanted more and with whom I did not, and all along, I knew that if I met a prospect I saw real potential with, I would immediately stop the FWB activity, even before the first date. If I were in your place, I would end it with girl #1 and go out with girl #2. If it doesn't work out, you can possibly get back with girl #1 or most likely find some other girl you're not that into just for sex. I think I am going to ask Cali Girl what she sees us as and what her plans are, and if she wants to continue the arrangement as a casual dating situation with the knowledge that we are free to see other people because our long-term plans are different,and if either one of us met somebody that fit our long-term plans better, we would stop seeing each other romantically. If I had a shot at exclusivity with OKC Girl,I would take it for two reasons: she plans on living in Texas the rest of her life and she's hotter. And if she made it clear she wanted to be exclusive with me, I would end things with Cali Girl. I'm trying to avoid deception and leading either of them on, keeping in mind that I may be wildly overestimating OKC Girl's interest in me and this is all a moot point. As I see it, I've done nothing wrong yet and I want to keep it that way.
verhrzn Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 I think I am going to ask Cali Girl what she sees us as and what her plans are, and if she wants to continue the arrangement as a casual dating situation with the knowledge that we are free to see other people because our long-term plans are different,and if either one of us met somebody that fit our long-term plans better, we would stop seeing each other romantically. If I had a shot at exclusivity with OKC Girl,I would take it for two reasons: she plans on living in Texas the rest of her life and she's hotter. And if she made it clear she wanted to be exclusive with me, I would end things with Cali Girl. Oh just freaking dump Cali Girl already. You want OKC girl cause she's hotter? Then you don't deserve the easy sex you get from Cali Girl. Just... seriously, leave her alone and go pursue your hotter girl.
serial muse Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 I think I am going to ask Cali Girl what she sees us as and what her plans are, and if she wants to continue the arrangement as a casual dating situation with the knowledge that we are free to see other people because our long-term plans are different,and if either one of us met somebody that fit our long-term plans better, we would stop seeing each other romantically. If I had a shot at exclusivity with OKC Girl,I would take it for two reasons: she plans on living in Texas the rest of her life and she's hotter. And if she made it clear she wanted to be exclusive with me, I would end things with Cali Girl. I'm trying to avoid deception and leading either of them on, keeping in mind that I may be wildly overestimating OKC Girl's interest in me and this is all a moot point. As I see it, I've done nothing wrong yet and I want to keep it that way. It does sound like you should tell Cali Girl that you don't see this going anywhere long term, since you're certain about that. Why not, really?
Ruby Slippers Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 I think I am going to ask Cali Girl what she sees us as and what her plans are, and if she wants to continue the arrangement as a casual dating situation with the knowledge that we are free to see other people because our long-term plans are different,and if either one of us met somebody that fit our long-term plans better, we would stop seeing each other romantically. I see nothing wrong with that. But I agree with verhrzn that it's only fair to be honest about the fact that you don't see her as long-term material and this is essentially FWB. That's what I said to my FWB, and if he had said that to me first, I would have been totally fine with it. The only kind of exclusivity I wanted from him was sexual, for sexual health, and I agreed to that from my side, too. I do think you need to be honest with both of them if you get to the point where you plan to have sex with both -- or stop having sex with girl #1 when the time comes with girl #2.
Author GreenPolicy Posted October 28, 2011 Author Posted October 28, 2011 It does sound like you should tell Cali Girl that you don't see this going anywhere long term, since you're certain about that. Why not, really? She's from California and she told me early on that she wants to move back there in a couple of years. I've lived in Texas my whole life. My entire network of friends and family is here. I'd be more interested in her long-term if I thought she was going to be here long-term. I'm going to see her tonight probably and I'm going to get this all out in the open, just make sure we're on the same page. If we're having fun and dating casually, and I've made my boundaries clear, then I don't see myself as doing anything wrong.
Author GreenPolicy Posted October 28, 2011 Author Posted October 28, 2011 I see nothing wrong with that. But I agree with verhrzn that it's only fair to be honest about the fact that you don't see her as long-term material and this is essentially FWB. That's what I said to my FWB, and if he had said that to me first, I would have been totally fine with it. The only kind of exclusivity I wanted from him was sexual, for sexual health, and I agreed to that from my side, too. I do think you need to be honest with both of them if you get to the point where you plan to have sex with both -- or stop having sex with girl #1 when the time comes with girl #2. Thanks. This is pretty much what I'm going to do. I won't have sex with them both. If things got to that point with #2, I would stop the casual dating situation with #1. I'm just not going to be the kind of person who is in an exclusive, committed relationship with one person and then secretly lines up a replacement.
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