Engagement in One Week... Having Second Thoughts?

[geegirl]

honestly trying, and know exactly what I need to. But, trust me, it's a struggle just to fight the physical symptoms from the loss (e.g. nightmares, lack of sleep, not eating). I'm kind of just hoping the symptoms just go away and I can find some motivation and not be so depressed/tired all the time.

 

Until you move out, you will keep feeling this way till March or more likely freefall into a deeper pit. The symptoms won't go away when you're right smack dab in the middle of what is destroying you.

 

Of course she's going to now label you a cheater. It's called gaslighting. She's manipulating you by confusing you into believing you're the one that has done wrong. That shifts the focus of her and places it on you. Now you're the one that caused the R to go downhill and you're going to start feeling guilty. Then you start questioning yourself and you know what happens then.

 

If I were you, I'd start packing stuff up and putting it in storage and living with the least amount of "stuff" in the apartment. Just your bedroom furniture and a few necessities for your bathroom and kitchen. The rest pack and store away.

Edited December 13, 2011 by geegirl

[MarMarMar]

Is there anything else you could do? Maybe get some authorities involved or something? Have her kicked out for her crazy ****?

[wilsonx]

I think you all hit the nail on the head. I have definitely become a co-dependent. I picked up this book Co-Dependent No More and as I am reading it my circumstances matched every factor. Strange thing was - when I brought up co-dependency to the therapist I was seeing he seemed to dismiss it. Instead, he simply said I see some of the concerns you have with your relationship and how they could be viewed as hard or not ideal. I was thinking, damm, "not ideal" are you listening to what I'm dealing with? She had an affair with a married man, cheated on me with a guy at a bar, has herpes - and tells me I'm at fault and she's done nothing wrong?

 

I have no doubt that the co-dependency I developed led me to stay in a horrible relationship for 5 years; where 99% of people would have kicked her to the curb. I also think she knew this and played into it perfectly. It was the perfect storm: someone with shattered self esteem who is dependent and looking to please and someone who is a user and manipulator.

 

You're also right that I'm still looking at this like I am a victim. I know I'm not a victim. I am definitely responsible for letting this happen. In a sense, I do have a "loser" mentality. My self esteem is zero right now. I want to get out there and do things, meet new people, start a business, etc. But, as many of you have pointed out, I can read all this advice over and over again - but still not do it. It's like trying to beat a dead horse. I'm honestly trying, and know exactly what I need to. But, trust me, it's a struggle just to fight the physical symptoms from the loss (e.g. nightmares, lack of sleep, not eating). I'm kind of just hoping the symptoms just go away and I can find some motivation and not be so depressed/tired all the time.

 

With respect to the financial, living, therapist situation. Unfortunately, it's not good. I'm in a fight with the jeweler I put a deposit down to pay for the ring. I took a huge hit on the custom setting which is not refundable and it doesn't look like I can sell it for 1/3 what I paid. Add in $350 a week for the therapist (which is one of the main reasons why I stopped, no insurance that covers it = $18k a year). I could probably move out and pay two rents for 3 months and moving expenses, but it would clean out everything I've saved. In NYC I would be spending over 7k a month for 3 months on the two places. I know you can't put a price on your mental health, but I don't know where my mental health will be when I'm broke because of this. She knows this too and it is the exact reason why she will stay. She knows her refusing to move will hurt me tremendously financially, where her moving would not hurt her at all because I would pay the entire rent.

 

Thanks for your feedback; I seriously need encouragement and stories to get through this. What I really need is an intervention. Someone to come up here and make me kick her a** to the curb and move on with my life.

 

As of now, it's Day 2 of NC but still living together and not speaking.

 

Ironically, I literally just got a txt message from her, telling me she "heard" I visited my x in December last year, calling me a liar and accusing ME of cheating on HER. Funny thing is: I did get in touch with my x last year in December via email; after Tracy broke up with me. This was the exact same time she was likely having an affair with a married man. I talked to my x about meeting up with her, but it never happened and I'm positive I never told anyone and I haven't had any contact with my x since. So, it looks like she has broken into my email account? I can't think of any other way she would know this from a year ago. Unless, she called the airline and was somehow able to get them to give her information on a a flight I reserved but never used. Yes, this is the level of what I am dealing with.

 

First off, I want to take back the co-dependent comment I made earlier. Your therapist was right to dismiss it. Its more about a lack of emotional maturity then anything.

 

Second off, you have a long battle a head of you. A long one. Hopefully one day you will be able to look back at this situation and laugh and say I was an idiot, I can't believe I did that.

 

One of the things I want to teach you is to stop making excuses. Make a decision and just do it without regards to the consequence or monetary money involved. One of the most difficult decision of my life was kicking my ex out of the apartment. I finally made that decision and said you have a week to get the **** out. Her name was on the lease. Get a roommate for the other room. Keep going to therapy.

 

No more excuses, money , rent blah blah blah, just make a decision and follow through no matter what. The second you do this, you take that first step on the ladder into becoming a man. It could be a good decision or a bad one, just do it and deal with the outcome later.

 

There's also a lot to learn from this as well.

[maya arrow]

hey,

don't be so hard on yourself! the last thing you need is to beat yourself up over this. instead, CONGRATULATE yourself that you are taking hold of your life and refusing to let this person mess with you anymore. i don't agree that 99% of people would have kicked her to the curb. we all want love and when it comes in a pretty package, i think many people would do a lot to believe that it is true. you loved her, that says a lot of you. you also sound financially stable and successful, responsible, kind...seriously, very far from being a loser. if anything, SHE is the loser, and one day she will not be so hot anymore and she is going to make some poor sucker very miserable. don't let the good memories fool you. a good person does not turn on the charm one minute and say the kind of crap she was saying to you another.

 

and i agree with other posters that you should get out of that apt in any way possible. stay with friends, take some time off and go on a trip, just get away from her. she is c-r-a-z-y.

 

good luck!!!

[sugarmomma]

Since it appears that you have decided to try and stick it out through the lease just lkeep reading that book. It literally saved my life and I swear by anything that Melody Beattie has written. I would also suggest the 12 step guide to codepency by her as well. I read it like a bible and still do. It touches on so much more than codependency. Another one would be Unsafe People. The beginning chapters are really good and then it get a little religious. Still a good read nevertheless.

 

I won't beat you up for staying. As long as you have a plan to leave once the lease is up I think you will be fine. I don't think you have any real desire to reconcile since you know she has herpes and unknowingly put you at risk to get it. That should make anybody turn cold.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

I need some advice.

 

Background

 

Here's the background. I've dated my current GF, Tracy, on and off for 5 years. I'm currently 35, she's 26. We both live in New York City. I work in investment banking and she's a receptionist at a large Wall Street company.

 

The relationship has been somewhat of a roller coaster. When we first met and started dating things were good. We had our fare share of arguments, but overall, everything worked out.

 

About 2 years into dating, we moved in together. Things became a disaster. We started fighting all the time. Tracy has what I will call a very stubborn type-A personality and a "I will do whatever I want" outlook on life. Which strangely enough is the exact type of woman I am always attracted to and date. This is probably reinforced by the fact that she is an extremely attractive woman (multiple beauty pageant winner, former professional sports cheerleader, etc.) and her whole life men have fallen over themselves to buy her things, take her out, pay attention to her, etc.

 

The Breakup

 

After living together for 6 months it got to the point where we fought almost weekly. One issue she constantly brought up was that she wanted to be engaged by now and she didn't understand why I wasn't doing it. We started arguing about this. She started going out to clubs all the time and where previously she included me, it would only be with her friends. One evening I caught her text messaging another guy. She denied it. Said he was a friend. This led to serious mistrust on my part and another month of fighting. I chalked her actions up to being immature at the time as she was only 23. Despite my lack of trust, I decided to try and work things out and resolve our issues. She decided that she wanted out of the relationship, "I love you you but don't want to date just you". From what I've read here, this is exactly what is called the "Grass is Greener Syndrome".

 

Getting Back Together

 

After we broke up, I dated a few other people but couldn't find one that I even remotely liked. After 6 months of being broken up where she would periodically send me messages like "I miss you" but then reassert that "she wanted to find herself" one day I ran into her and she wouldn't leave me alone. She kept telling me that she made a mistake and now knew that I was the only person she wanted to be with and wanted to marry me. She blamed her leaving the initial relationship on me not marrying her after dating for 2+ years.

 

I gave in and agreed to give it a second chance. Our re-established relationship did not start out so well. For months, I would periodically catch her still talking to guys that she dated when we broke up. In all honesty, I was still talking to girls that I had dated or met when we were broken up (but never doing more than keeping them on the hook as friends) because I still didn't trust Tracy and I believed she was doing the same or worse.

 

This continued for a few more months, until one day I discovered that a married co-worker of hers (who is in his late 40s) was sending her inappropriate text messages insinuating that they may have been together when Tracy and I were separated. I confronted Tracy and to this day she denies it. Saying that they are just "very good friends". Despite every instinct I had that told me she was lying about what happened, I convinced myself to try and believe her. It didn't go well for months and she reverted to her old stubborn/selfish ways.

 

Eventually it got to a breaking point. She gave me an ultimatum. I didn't do anything wrong. I want to be with you and only you. Either break up with me. Or move past the issue about the co-worker and believe me.

 

I still didn't believe her, but based on a overwhelming sense of loyalty I felt and a desire not to go back to the dating scene which was awful for me for the 6 months we were broken up, I chose to try and work things out. We had been together for almost four years at that point and I just couldn't throw away all the time and effort.

 

After some trying times, things finally returned to good. We have now been dating for another year and about 6 months ago we signed a lease on a new apartment and moved in together again as both of our leases were up.

 

I have to admit, right now, things are pretty good. We rarely fight. We get along well. The trust has mostly been rebuilt. But every once in a while mistrust, etc. creeps back in based on everything that has happened.

 

Unfortunately, I now have a new (well, actually "old") problem. Over the past 4 months since we moved back in together Tracy has expressed her frustration over not being married again. She continuously talks about how that was the reason things didn't work out before (because I couldn't commit - which I still doubt) and how things are starting to get stagnant.

 

She has provided me with an ultimatum that is basically: She's 26, she wants to have kids by the time she's 30, I've dated her for almost 6 years, and I either need to marry her or break up with her. She's tired of wasting time. While she hasn't set a date, we need to renew or opt out of our lease in 2 months and she refuses to do it unless she is engaged. But either way we still have 6 months left on our current lease together.

 

In a sense, I agree with her. After 6 years, while things haven't always been great, I should be able to make a decision. But, maybe it is because I am extremely over analytical, I can't. While she lives life on a whim, I am way more conservative. In an ideal world, none of the bad things would have ever happened and she would be the perfect person, but I don't think that's the case. Everyone has flaws. And I can't change the past.

 

So here's where I am:

 

My Concerns

 

(1) Maybe this is wrong and is my insecurity issue that I'm not dealing with right, but I still don't fully trust her based on everything that has happened. Things have been good for almost 8 months and MAYBE she now only has the best intentions, but I am a believer in history is the greatest predictor of the future and her history only shows that she has been deceitful in the past and could very well do it again in the future. Her track record of contacting men says something. And, I am 99.9% certain that she had some sort of improper relationship with her married co-worker at the least when we were broken up and at the worst when we were still together.

 

(2) She's selfish and moody. While her type-A personality is something I admire, she is admittedly a "selfish" person. While it is great to put yourself first always for self-confidence purposes, she takes it to the extreme. She refuses to compromise in certain situations, for example, if there is something I want to do but she doesn't. Instead of agreeing to do it with me, she will tell me to go do it myself or flat out refuse. She honestly sees no problem with ONLY doing what she wants, as this has worked for her in the past. I have seen her take this view point with not just me, but her friends and family. The only way I can describe it is she is just wired differently than most people. She doesn't beat around the bush, she doesn't participate in bs, and she just does what she wants. I was hoping the extremely unwillingness to compromise in certain situations was an immaturity thing and she would grow out of it, but she's already 26 and it hasn't changed yet.

 

She's also very moody and can act mean or upset at the drop of a hat. I guess everyone is moody. I know I am. But she just has these general mean streaks every once in a while. This concerns me. As I've never dated anyone who can give me attitude so often.

 

(3) She's a little too materialistic for me. Probably my biggest concern. We live in New York City and there is a serious culture of very attractive women who have the world as their oyster. Here, like in many places, attractive women can go to any club in the city, walk right in and have men fall over themselves to buy them drinks. I can walk down my company's hallway right now and name half a dozen men that buy expensive dinners, trips, purses, watches, etc. for attractive women they are dating or have dated. While beauty does fade, generally, men will do anything for an extremely attractive woman.

 

Working at a large Wall Street company with many wealthy men, Tracy knows this. And has been treated her whole life to men that will do anything for her. To be honest, I can't fault her. If I had this power I would probably take advantage of it as well. But, a few things about this concern me. I don't know where she learned it, but she believes that it is the man's responsibility to pay for almost everything. Though I will admit that she does pay for dinners, items for the house, etc. on occasion.

 

What more concerns me is her lack of respect for saving for the future. She is in debt for student loans and credit cards but refuses to curtail her spending on luxury items like designer purses and clothing. Her viewpoint: what if I die tomorrow, I don't want to have any regrets, so I am going to buy everything I want today. I will worry about the future when I get there. Her friends are all the same way; very concerned about money or dating guys with money. And none of them have very high paying jobs, they all just rely on their boyfriends or husbands to provide what they want.

 

In addition, she has made it very clear to me that she wants a particular Harry Winston engagement ring that costs $32,000. Yes, that's correct. Her viewpoint: I am only going to wear one ring for the rest of my life, so it better be extremely nice and the exact ring I want.

 

My viewpoint, wouldn't you rather have that money to pay off your debt or use as a down payment on a house and have a smaller ring. Her response: no, I will only have one engagement ring that I will wear for the rest of my life, I want it to be very nice. I don't want a small ring and then an upgrade later, I just want one ring. Don't you want people to see the large ring and think what a great husband I have? This is a ring I will be wearing everyday for the rest of my life.

 

I've tried to explain how ridiculously expensive a $30k+ ring is. But she honestly believes that is what she deserves and wants. She has further argued that I can afford it, so why shouldn't I buy it.

 

She's partially right, people in investment banking do make significantly more than most, including myself, but I am by no means rich. In fact, I make much less than most investment bankers.

 

The truth is I have the money to buy the $30k ring, but I don't think it's a smart decision financially. If I had $100k of unused capital sitting around or a $1 million a year job, I would actually say ok, no problem. But I don't.

 

In addition, I really want to change jobs and am just not guaranteed of making the type of money I am currently making for the rest of my life. I would rather have the money as a nest egg and save for the future. And, I work in a very uncertain industry. I could lose my job tomorrow.

 

Then I really start to question what would happen. If we broke up, would she take the ring and take off. Then I'd be out $30,000?

 

The Good Stuff

 

Those negatives being said, I will admit:

 

-She is extremely loving and goes out of her way to show it

 

-She is the most exciting and fun person I have ever been around and we always have a great time

 

-We have almost identical common interests and love to do the same things

 

-She has a great family that I love and get along with tremendously

 

-She has stood by me, for the most part, for 6 years. And, I am not always the easiest person to be with

 

The Decision

 

So for weeks I've been thinking things over. When it comes down to it, we've dated for almost 6 years, I'm 35 and not getting any younger, and generally she makes me very happy. If it wasn't for some of the things that happened in the past and the few things I've noted above, I would be 100% about marrying her. While on the other hand, I don't want to ignore any glaring red flags and do something that I will seriously regret. It's a tough call, my heart says "yes", but my brain says "think twice".

 

So, I convinced myself I need to stop being such a "wuss" and just man up and get engaged. What's the worst that could possibly happen? I need to put an end to this once and for all. Best case scenario we stay happily married forever. Worst case scenario, we get engaged and break up and she keeps the ring. But at least then it's over and I tried and I can move on with my life since right now I'm just stuck in a 6 year limbo.

 

So, despite not wanting to spend what I believe is an unreasonable amount, I've stopped by Harry Winston and put a hold on the ring. I got a call today that the price is going up by $4,000 next week due to the increase in holiday pricing so I need to buy before then. And, we've got a trip to Europe to visit my relatives coming up in a week as well. So, if I don't propose then before we have to renew the lease, I seriously don't know when I will?

 

But at times like now, I'm having doubts and time is running out. I keep thinking that I focus too much on the negative and maybe the concerns I have aren't that bad I'm just blowing them out of proportion. On the other hand, maybe I'm not.

 

I know no one can predict the future, but am I making a mistake? Or is this just pre-engagement jitters and I'm overly critical and asking for too much?

 

The only other alternative I have is break up with the girl I've dated for 6 years and am currently living with who does make me happy and hope that one day I meet someone else better. Even though I haven't yet. But at 35 and wanting to have a family, what are the odds?

 

 

 

Wow, this was really eye-opening and thought-provoking.

 

Going from bottom to top (until I stop wanting to go in that direction)...

 

FIRSTLY, the ring... I think the handy rule is "10% of the current year's salary" is right for a guy to spend on THE ring. (you're analytical and mathematical, so you can do that math)

 

 

 

 

NOW, I sense ONE ELEMENT at the CORE, which you are not factoring-in as of having written this first, descriptive post.

 

And it relates to HOW men and women view one another.

 

When (heterosexual) men take interest in women (with whom they don't work, to whom they aren't related or caused to know BY someone who is related, and with whom they aren't neighbors, etc.), it is only with the usual pipe dream of wanting to be romantic with them. Such men see themselves as being "in line" for her heart, regardless of what she sees. (walk down that hallway in your office, and count THOSE guys...)

 

With women, and PARTICULARLY the type of women you describe, (who are so striking that they have lived a lifetime being doted on, fawned over, and effectively having anything they want from men)... it is NOT the case at all that THEY have any interest in the many guys who are always falling all over them.

 

Have a conversation with yourself, and say: "Self, I need to get it through my head that any past interest in "friendship" with a woman I had was mostly for my ('wanting more') than just that friendship". (it's OK to call yourself friends with the waitress at the diner you frequent for lunch, because you know her name, know the names of her kids, and know the small town in Rhode Island she calls 'home', but that ain't what I'm talking about)

 

For women, again, THAT pre-ordained-in-men (necessity?) does NOT hold true.

 

Furthermore, any canoodling she did with someone while you were separated/apart, can not count against her no matter what.

 

Sheeeeeeeeeeee is in control of her affections, and she just isn't burdened with the same general dis-interest in (mere) 'friendship' with the opposite sex other than for one reason.

 

Those 'other guys'... yes, all of'em... all of'em wanting to get-at your girlfriend... If mere "opportunity" makes someone cheat... then you could write your girlfriend off, for we all know she'll continue to get scores of opportunities. I haven't seen direct assurance in your detailed offering to suggest she will cross boundaries of her own will.

 

 

Nowthen, moving on...

 

The finances thing is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally going to be a serious problem... indeed you might have enough beans to just put it to rest (provided you get to stay at your current level, income-wise)

 

The SAD truth about her is that she sorely neeeeeeeeeeeeds some financial discipline, and she needs it for her OWN sake, and not (just) yours. Further sadness comes from the high probability that the likes of her could go out and land the RIGHT guy who would neglect her heart, but whose bank account goes on endlessly.

 

I don't know if I can fathom the degree of discipline a guy in your shoes would need, to require that he see signs of improvement in how she handles finances beFOOOOOOOOOOOORE making a commitment to this woman.

 

Through all of this, I don't see any present signs of her being any sort of 'baaaaaaaaad' on the grand scale of women. I just... perceive that her sense of money is an unhealthy fit for you.

 

I wouldn't imagine a male soul in the world giving up what you have just for that reason (even if the reason itself is food for thought), espeeeeeeeeeeecially after SIX YEARS (of investing your respective souls in one another).

 

Oh yeah, one thing about all of those doting guys, everything you've said about your girlfriend assures that she has (had to) develop(ed) at least some SIGNIFICANT resistance TO the social onslaught. And I think THAT part of her WOULD and SHOULD evolve to be less of a concern as your relationship thrives in the near future.

 

I think that she needs you and she collectively to undergo the equivalent of "financial counseling" (as a PROactive measure).

 

I know that when it is a REactive measure, it would be "debt consolidation".

 

It would be so grand if you could somehow inspire a woman like her to take a class in "personal finance" WITH you at her side.

 

You seem to have all of your thoughts in good order, and I hope it goes well for you. Let me underscore the part where I say: "most any guy in your position would take his chances with her"... just in CASE you are looking back with regret in a few years.

 

I agree with "your biggest concern".

 

Good luck!

[Antique]

Holy sh*t! Well, I learned how she found out about me making plans to visit my x-girlfriend that never actually happened and I never told anyone about right after Tracy broke up with me.

 

She stole my computer media drives out of my work briefcase and went through/likely copied the files!

 

I thought she was a super-b*tch and spiteful - but this is insane! In what I guess in her mind was retribution for me looking in her medicine cabinet and finding the herpes medication, she must have purposely gone into my briefcase and stole my media drives and went through them yesterday. I didn't even know they were gone, but this morning when I woke up - there they were sitting in the middle of the hallway table where I leave my keys. They weren't there when I went to bed last night.

 

The drives had all kinds of confidential work, financial/bank account, personal health/doctor, etc. information. Including, a copy of the receipt for the flight I booked when I was contemplating visiting the x but never went.

 

My work finds out this information was taken, they would immediately fire me for not protecting it sufficiently. In addition, the media drive has my whole medical history (e.g. disclosures to the therapist I was seeing, medications, etc.). She knows she releases any of this and I'm ruined. I guess that's why she left it right there on the table - to make sure I know she has it. Holy sh*t! I can't believe this woman. What kind of person does this?

[MarMarMar]

Holy sh*t! Well, I learned how she found out about me making plans to visit my x-girlfriend that never actually happened and I never told anyone about right after Tracy broke up with me.

 

She stole my computer media drives out of my work briefcase and went through/likely copied the files!

 

I thought she was a super-b*tch and spiteful - but this is insane! In what I guess in her mind was retribution for me looking in her medicine cabinet and finding the herpes medication, she must have purposely gone into my briefcase and stole my media drives and went through them yesterday. I didn't even know they were gone, but this morning when I woke up - there they were sitting in the middle of the hallway table where I leave my keys. They weren't there when I went to bed last night.

 

The drives had all kinds of confidential work, financial/bank account, personal health/doctor, etc. information. Including, a copy of the receipt for the flight I booked when I was contemplating visiting the x but never went.

 

My work finds out this information was taken, they would immediately fire me for not protecting it sufficiently. In addition, the media drive has my whole medical history (e.g. disclosures to the therapist I was seeing, medications, etc.). She knows she releases any of this and I'm ruined. I guess that's why she left it right there on the table - to make sure I know she has it. Holy sh*t! I can't believe this woman. What kind of person does this?

 

Dude just get her out of your life. Can't you report her to authorities for the stolen confidential information? There's a difference between looking in a medicine cabinet and that ****. Can't you just get proof together of the **** she's done with the intent to hurt/harm you and just get a restraining order? That will get her out of the house.

[Antique]

Today has been particularly rough. Maybe the reality of 5+ years down the drain is starting to set in. And the fact that I'm 35 - not 25 anymore. Why couldn't this have happened 10 years ago? I guess better at 35 than 45 or 55 if there can be any sort of optimism.

 

It's strange, I know she is an awful, terrible, horrible person and my life would be hell with her. But I miss being with her. I miss being "happy". Maybe I just miss having someone to share everything with and someone at 35 that I had planned on starting a future and family with.

 

I know it's not right, but it makes you think. What did I do wrong that I permitted all of this go on? Why was I good enough to stay with for 5 years, want to marry, etc. but not good enough to not cheat on, lie to, treat like crap, etc.

 

I try to justify it by telling myself she is just rotten to the core and her true nature would have come out with anyone. But it makes me distraught when I think about all the money, energy, missed opportunities with others and prime years of my life that are now gone with nothing to show for it. And her still relatively young and still attractive can move on easily to some other guy that will fall for her act for as long as she decides she wants to play it.

[geegirl]

Today has been particularly rough. Maybe the reality of 5+ years down the drain is starting to set in. And the fact that I'm 35 - not 25 anymore. Why couldn't this have happened 10 years ago? I guess better at 35 than 45 or 55 if there can be any sort of optimism.

 

Maybe if it had happened 10 years ago, it would have been a different lesson and experience to you. At 25, grasping a lesson of this magnitude may have either propelled you way into your years or it may have completely broken you. Or you may have been immature not to ever learn anything from it. Instead of worrying on years lost, focus on what you're gaining. If you had invested more in her (and you were this close to proposing when you came to this site), and if you continued a life with her, all your years would have been lost. Take this as a blessing. You are only 35! Life hasn't stopped for you, it's just beginning.

 

It's strange, I know she is an awful, terrible, horrible person and my life would be hell with her. But I miss being with her. I miss being "happy". Maybe I just miss having someone to share everything with and someone at 35 that I had planned on starting a future and family with.

 

It's normal to idealize the R and your partner no matter how toxic they were. After all, there were good times and they may have portrayed decency, care and love when they were with us. And we can miss that but we always have to remember the reality of what their core is. You miss for what you hope to have had in your life. You feel sad and angry for having to start all over again. It's very normal feelings. But when you're in a better place, that loss of opportunity will feel different to you. You will be optimistic about finding it again versus feeling the sadness of losing it.

 

I know it's not right, but it makes you think. What did I do wrong that I permitted all of this go on? Why was I good enough to stay with for 5 years, want to marry, etc. but not good enough to not cheat on, lie to, treat like crap, etc.

 

Don't beat yourself up. When you love someone, you turn a blind eye. You cling to hope rather than reality. You let this go on because you hoped that what you felt for her and how you valued the relationship was what she was feeling and hoping for and even if she didn't you hoped that with enough showering of love and care and money, she'd come your way. You were good enough to stay with because you enabled her bad behavior. It wasn't about one or the other.

 

I know this is so very hard for you. But you have to believe that at 35, there is so much to look forward to and if you can't feel that now, know that each and everyone of us that's felt the pain of a broken relationship, at some point started living life again at it didn't matter what the numbers were. You will find your optimism in life when you break away from this.

[M2155]

Ummm....I'm 35. I am starting single from scratch. I hope I am walking into the future with better communication skills, coping skills and wisdom that will make the past worth it. I'm sorry she has done so much damage in your life but you will admit it has revealed a lot of your own flaws and faults. Now you can work on them. We barely knew ourselves at 25 (no offense 25 year olds...you'll know what I'm saying one day;)). There were probably red flags about this girl when you were 30, 31, 32...so there is no guarantee you would have fared any better when you were younger, it probably could have taken a $32K ring down the drain and 10 years of life for you to see this and learn. Yes this is better than 45, 55 etc.. Don't focus on getting old, focus on getting healthy.

 

And ditto everything geegirl said!

[rosyposy90]

Antique,

 

I don't believe you are co-dependent. When I read your posts the thing that leaps out at me is the importance you place on her looks. You seem tormented by the thoughts that a)someone else will get the pleasure and status of having her on their arm and b) you will never find anyone as good as her again. I think it is those thoughts that have you stuck where you are.

 

If it makes you feel any better, you have had her best years lookswise. She is now over 25 and she is running out of time to use her looks to hook a man with money and status and she will know this. Fast forward a few short years. Women over the age of 30 are considered old and less desirable in our society. She will no longer be young and radiantly beautiful. She has no earning capacity of her own. If she doesn't get a rich man soon she is in trouble. I pity anyone who ends up with her. She has traded on her looks her entire life, she has never developed as a person and probably never will.

 

At 35 or so, a male is in his prime. Especially a male with financial resources. She must be with you for a reason, so if you have been desirable to her then you will be desirable to someone else.

 

You should be so thankful you can get rid of her before you had children. Ten years from now, had you married her, your position would be unrecoverable. You would be divorced and bankrupt with kids you hardly ever see. Beauty in women is fleeting, but a nasty personality is forever. You are still young- go out and find someone both attractive and nice. Don't waste anymore time on her- time is precious. Get free emotionally so you can give all of yourself to a new relationship. Be happy

[Antique]

Another rough morning. Looks like it only took a matter of a few days before she was able to lure someone else in. Not surprising. Last night I heard her on the phone definitely talking to some guy about meeting him. I saw her walk out at 10pm. Then, I was woken up at 2:30am when she came home. I don't think there is any mystery about what is going on when you go to meet someone at 10pm.

 

I'm trying to focus on the positive. Thank god she's out of my life and I don't have to deal with the lies, cheating, using and a lifetime of pain. But it's awful to be forced to watch her move on so quickly and effortlessly. While I'm still in no condition to move on and honestly don't really have anyone I've met that I could go out with. One thing I'm learning quickly is that at 35, unlike, 25 all of my friends are now married or in serious relationships. No more are the days of having time for friends; instead it's wives and kids. Depressing, because I always planned I would be right there too.

 

I need to get out of the apartment. Can't deal with having it right there thrown in my face. I mean, days after a 5 year relationship is over and she's already effortlessly moved on to someone else? It's kind of what I expected, but to have to see it on a daily basis is torture. Probably part of the reason why she is doing it.

[wilsonx]

Trust me shes not over it, shes trying to mask and cover up the pain and anger and resentment with sex, new relationships, drinking and dating.

 

She's walled off and thats why you see her cool as ice. She made herself numb so that she wouldnt have to feel anything.

[CaliBabe]

I can't imagine how you must be feeling... Trying to keep it together but watching it happen right before your eyes. Continue being strong. You atleast know now that what she is doing is wrong and you are trying your best to move on and not take that kind of treatment anymore. I mean give yourself that. In the end she will be the one losing, continue to better yourself and keep strong. Once you are healed and happy again, you will then be able to share that with someone else.

[TheGrimSweeper]

Trust me shes not over it, shes trying to mask and cover up the pain and anger and resentment with sex, new relationships, drinking and dating.

 

She's walled off and thats why you see her cool as ice. She made herself numb so that she wouldnt have to feel anything.

 

I completely agree with this.

 

In my opnion, it takes a strong person like yourself to completely realize your not ready for a new relationship, take the time to heal and then move on.

 

She is a weak, scared, insecure person who is simply trying to cover up her pain by doing this, and I guarntee she is also hoping its hurting you in the process too boost her ego.

 

I've read this whole thread Antique and completely sympathize with you, but know that you deserve far better then her, to be perfectly blunt, she sounds completely insane.

[marqueemoon4]

I know how hard this is, I totally empathize. YOU DODGED A HUGE BULLET. $32k for a ring is nothing compared to the pain of not living with kid/kids again, having to pay big $$ for support/alimony, and having to see the person that did this to you twice a week. Cut ties man and thank the good Lord above. You've been spared.

[Dust]

Hi Antique. Sorry if I missed any details in the 7 pages that have gone on. Please feel free to correct me if I'm off base.

 

Why are you still letting her live with you?

 

I don't thinks she's bad or your bad. I think you both made some mistakes.

 

You are my oposite in many ways with how you think about women. You need to take charge a little. Be willing to reject them. Also realize the great great majority of women have a psychopathic view of mariage. Can't avoid that! Good luck moving onto your next adventure.

[wilsonx]

. Also realize the great great majority of women have a psychopathic view of mariage. Can't avoid that! Good luck moving onto your next adventure.

 

Dust, what do you mean by this. Im intrigued?

[Dust]

Dust, what do you mean by this. Im intrigued?

 

Women have their own crazy, chick crack if you will. Mariage is something women are crazy for. There for they are inocent by reason of insanity the same way you'd let some one get away with a crime in certain situations. You have to forgive them "sometimes" and get them back on track. he will most likely face atleast the wanting to get married thing with the next girl. The cheating was unacceptable and he's to blame for that too though because he let it go on obviously.

[wilsonx]

dust I agree with you on this, but there is a lot more to this entire situation then just the cheating.

 

she has been testing him nonstop and he kept failing. Its not his fault either because he did not know he was being tested and she probably did not know it either.

 

The biggest test he failed was the 32k ring. When I saw him post this and his rationale on not doing yet he went through with it anyway, i just facepalmed myself and let it go

[Dust]

dust I agree with you on this, but there is a lot more to this entire situation then just the cheating.

 

she has been testing him nonstop and he kept failing. Its not his fault either because he did not know he was being tested and she probably did not know it either.

 

The biggest test he failed was the 32k ring. When I saw him post this and his rationale on not doing yet he went through with it anyway, i just facepalmed myself and let it go

 

If I had this mans money I'd buy women jewlery too. The thing is he wasn't having fun with it. He needs to have more fun. He just turns it all into an ordeal.

 

He had all the power in a way. In another way she had and still does have the power.

 

He needs to learn how to just enjoy the journey. For the most part though women will always want money. (mariage is part of that in a very big way)

[Antique]

A Monday update. I spent most of the weekend with my friends - away from the house. I still feel horrible, but I think it's getting better.

 

On Friday, she broke into my room and went through my stuff again. She sent me a txt message picture while I was out on Friday of a sleeping medication that was in my work briefcase that I just got from my doctor with the subject "How does it feel to have your privacy invaded... good thing you're medicating, you need it". I didn't respond.

 

On Saturday she went out at 11pm and came home at 9am with her "going out" clothes she wore the night before still on. I think it's safe to say she probably spent the night at some guy's house. When she saw me, I said, "Can you do me a favor and stop breaking into my room. It's childish and illegal. I just want you to move out." She said, "Don't worry, I will move out as soon as I can afford it. I am so over you and want nothing to do with you."

 

I left and spent the night at a friend's place.

 

The next day when I came home, I didn't speak to her. An hour or so later, she came into my room and asked me if I was going to watch the Giants game. When I said yes, and she asked me if I wanted to watch it with her?!?!? I thought, are you serious??? I said, "I have no desire to watch the game with you". She left and spent the night in her room, didn't hear from her again.

 

She breaks into my room AGAIN, likely spends the night at a guy's place, insults me and tells me she wants nothing to do with me and then asks me to watch the Giants game with her?!? Is she insane?

 

I spoke to my attorney friend again, and he said I still can't evict her. I could try to press charges or do something along those lines for her breaking into my room, but it would be a long process and I would have to have solid proof. She could always lie and try to press charges against me for something I didn't do and drag my name through the mud. Something I know she would do.

 

This is going to sound terrible, but I can admit and realize now that I let her get away with murder solely based on the fact that she is extremely attractive. It definitely speaks to a shallow part of me, but I bought into the male stereotype hook line and sinker - a super attractive girl can get her way just because she is so attractive. Don't get me wrong, there were plenty of other reasons why I dated her that didn't have to do with just looks - common interests, great family, etc. But in the end, I let her run the show because she was so attractive and I hate to say this but 90% of guys probably would (and have) let her do the same. That is why she feels like she can act the way she does. A lot of people can post that they wouldn't give in. But I'm willing to bet if a girl that looks like a model walks up to you at a bar, sweet talks you, etc. Most guys would jump at the opportunity to buy her drinks, take her to dinner, etc. In fact, I haven't seen one that has turned her down.

 

When it comes down to it. Yes, I am at fault. I realize that. The red flags were there. 32k ring, lying, selfishness. I just chose to ignore them, because I thought "love" would be stronger and believed that someone couldn't truly be that awful and selfish that has dated you for 5+ years.

 

I thought I was dating "out of my league". But in the end, what it came down to was simply this: she is a social climber. She wants and believes she deserves to date a CEO, a professional athlete, etc. Someone who will pay her way, take her on exotic trips, buy her jewelry and purses, simply because she is classically beautiful. I made a good amount of money. I was above average. But I wasn't a CEO or a professional athlete. Or, even one of the high powered brokers in New York that she sees on a daily basis. Just someone who made a good living and was nice. Too nice and giving in to her. And that wasn't good enough for her to respect, not lie to or cheat on.

[wilsonx]

One of the things you will see and learn down the road is that she's just immature and has a lot of growing up to do. You like me were an enabler and instead of punishing bad behavior we allowed it. She is not the monster in the grand scheme of things, just young and stupid.

 

Now you are punishing her for her bad behavior and she's reacting like a child. Do you see this?