What motivation would a man have to get married as opposed to just staying in an LTR?

October 25, 2011

So. That being done, what reason would a man have to wish to marry in current society?

As a man marriage means that I am fully committed to the relationship. Legalization of the relationship is a symbol of the commitment.

Those that do not want to get married are not fully committed. It is that simple.

October 25, 2011

Good points, both of you.

I find it interesting how I am ultimately divided on this. One part of me emotionally desires it, wants that deepest, most final tie. Another part pragmatically asks itself, "What happens if it turns sour and I can't leave?". One cannot entirely rule out the probability of that happening in the future, after all, despite how good things are now. But if one were to enter marriage with the thought, "I can just divorce if things go wrong", is there a purpose to entering it in the first place?

October 25, 2011

Good points, both of you.

I find it interesting how I am ultimately divided on this. One part of me emotionally desires it, wants that deepest, most final tie. Another part pragmatically asks itself, "What happens if it turns sour and I can't leave?". One cannot entirely rule out the probability of that happening in the future, after all, despite how good things are now. But if one were to enter marriage with the thought, "I can just divorce if things go wrong", is there a purpose to entering it in the first place?

If you are looking ahead to a time when there will be trouble in the relationship then you are not that much in love or you are not committed.

October 25, 2011

It's a socialized idea, really. I find it compelling that so many people mention marrying "to have kids." If marriage is useless otherwise, why is it useful in this way (for kids)? The answer is: because you believe it to be.

Also, because others believe it to be. There's still a stigma (in some areas) surrounding having children out of wedlock... and my liberal views in this area don't stop bigotry from others.

There's also less confusion if a family all has the same last name. (although marriage isn't the only way to do that)

October 25, 2011

As a man marriage means that I am fully committed to the relationship. Legalization of the relationship is a symbol of the commitment.

Those that do not want to get married are not fully committed. It is that simple.

Dude, can we clone you?

October 25, 2011

Also, because others believe it to be. There's still a stigma (in some areas) surrounding having children out of wedlock... and my liberal views in this area don't stop bigotry from others.

There's also less confusion if a family all has the same last name. (although marriage isn't the only way to do that)

True on the first part. The second. . . eh? I never had the same last name as my parents (Mom and Stepdad), and it never mattered.

October 25, 2011

If you are looking ahead to a time when there will be trouble in the relationship then you are not that much in love or you are not committed.

Urm, no, you don't get it.

Pragmatism sees what is. Two people could be 100% in love at one time, but that does not disprove the possibility that it could change in the future. Nothing can ever make that possibility untrue.

Not that that is a very good reason for not wanting marriage, I guess, since nothing else in life is certain, either.

October 25, 2011

One of the biggest things I would look for before I get married is how well my partner works with me. Things will get tough, we will disagree, sometimes we'll feel less in love with each other, sometimes we will hate each other... but if I know that no matter what she'll try her best and she knows that I'll do the same, then that's all we can ask of each other, because, as you said, nothing is ever certain, apart from my undying commitment to you, babe (Sorry, got carried away with my romantic side as I thought of my future wife:o)

October 25, 2011

But if one were to enter marriage with the thought, "I can just divorce if things go wrong", is there a purpose to entering it in the first place?

I wouldn't advise marrying with an attitude as glib as this, but I am also very glad that the law provides a legal option to reverse marriage.

The option to divorce gives staying married more meaning.

October 25, 2011

I'm not a man, so... take this as you will...

But I think there are still some very traditional men out there who have a lot of pride in the institution of marriage and the ability to call a woman his "wife." I think it brings out the protective, caretaking instinct in some men and is important for them to feel the sense of being part of a family (even if it is just the two) and a home, and marriage solidifies that.

This is pretty much it for me. Call me a hopeless romantic, an idiot, etc. Perhaps it's a risk (like guys on here always say) but I've never been a risk averse person.

October 25, 2011

Urm, no, you don't get it.

Pragmatism sees what is. Two people could be 100% in love at one time, but that does not disprove the possibility that it could change in the future. Nothing can ever make that possibility untrue.

Not that that is a very good reason for not wanting marriage, I guess, since nothing else in life is certain, either.

Dude:

Things could go sour, but it would be odd to be in love with a woman and to assume at the same time it will go sour at any time. IMHO, that is not true love or true commitment.

You are basically saying that your love is conditional. Basically you imply that you may want to marry her, but you do not want to go there because it could fail. I cannot love in that manner and I feel bad for those that love in that manner. It simply reflects a problem within you. It says you are unable to let go and truly love someone else. It implies selfishness.

I have news for you!

We are going to die. Yes, you and I will DIE. That does not stop you and I from living this life and trying our best.

October 25, 2011

No, accepting the probability that anything could happen is not the same as assuming that it will happen. If you wish to prove your point, it would be best to instead debate with the men here claiming that any man who wishes to marry is, in their words, dumb. Because I am in essence agreeing with you, especially as I stated that such an inherent probability is not a really good reason to not do anything.

Also, I'm the woman, and when it comes down to it, the emotional side of me wins over and does want to marry.

October 25, 2011

This is pretty much it for me. Call me a hopeless romantic, an idiot, etc. Perhaps it's a risk (like guys on here always say) but I've never been a risk averse person.

Oh, yes, that just about sums it up for me. I am actually a risk-averse person, but when it comes down to it I think the 'gains', for lack of a better word, outweigh the risks in a well-chosen marriage. It's interesting how the responses here range from the extreme, "If you even believe that there is a possibility a marriage would fail, you are selfish" to "A person who wants to marry is dumb". Such is the variety of humankind, I guess.

October 25, 2011

No, accepting the probability that anything could happen is not the same as assuming that it will happen. If you wish to prove your point, it would be best to instead debate with the men here claiming that any man who wishes to marry is, in their words, dumb. Because I am in essence agreeing with you, especially as I stated that such an inherent probability is not a really good reason to not do anything.

Also, I'm the woman, and when it comes down to it, the emotional side of me wins over and does want to marry.

It is all about commitment.

Those that do not want to get married want the option of having one foot in the door just in case.

I would be nauseated to offer that to the woman I love. In fact, I think it is rather demeaning to the other party.

October 25, 2011

It is all about commitment.

Those that do not want to get married want the option of having one foot in the door just in case.

I would be nauseated to offer that to the woman I love. In fact, I think it is rather demeaning to the other party.

There are as many people who marry easily but also divorce easily, as there are people who carefully think marriage over. If you believe the former is preferable, that is your prerogative.

I really don't understand why we are debating this when I did my best to explain to you how my acknowledgement of probabilities was purely a factual intellectual assessment and has no bearings on my own decisions re: marriage, but I guess we can't all expect to understand everything.

At any rate, it's good to see that many men do still believe in marriage.

October 25, 2011

Dude, can we clone you?

it wouldn't do you any good.

women are the ones who can't resist the attention of other men by a much larger margin .

men have to actively pursue the intent to cheat on women. women simply have to sit down in a public place by themselves and wait.

my response was going to be very similar to carhill's. i haven't been married. but to me it's a barrier to people behaving as they do normally (which isn't normal). i.e., ending relationships because i want to screw the bartender/waitress, ending relationships because i want to go back to school, ending relationships because i want to hang out with my friends more, ending relationships because i want to move to a different city. marriage is a barrier to selfish behavior, you have to pay a lawyer at least to throw the other person away, and assume the title of 'divorced'.

Edited October 25, 2011 by thatone

October 25, 2011

True on the first part. The second. . . eh? I never had the same last name as my parents (Mom and Stepdad), and it never mattered.

Perhaps I'm scraping the barrel on looking for good reasons to get married.

On further reflection I came up with another idea: marriage is symbolic of an intent for the relationship to be enduring (which isn't quite the same as using the 'commitment' word), so a motivation could be a desire to express that intent.

October 25, 2011

Perhaps I'm scraping the barrel on looking for good reasons to get married.

On further reflection I came up with another idea: marriage is symbolic of an intent for the relationship to be enduring (which isn't quite the same as using the 'commitment' word), so a motivation could be a desire to express that intent.

I don't see why we need to scrape the barrel or talk about kids at all is my point. The only reason to get married is that you're in love and you think it'd make you happy and make your love even better. Whatever those other side notes are, they're just side notes. Why does it need a logical justification?

I don't need a reason to eat chocolate cake or snuggle with my honey or play with the pup or grab a beer with my friends or do anything else that brings me joy. The people who are in lasting marriages derive joy from the thought of being married to their spouse, the action of marrying them, and the sustaining state of marriage when they're in it, I figure. So, the real answer to why marry? is: If it'll make you happier than if you don't.

October 25, 2011

If marriage is nothing more than a show of commitment, why then nearly all women are so repulsed by the idea of a prenup? And ironically, the women who are repulsed by a prenup are ALWAYS women who have less to lose than the men financially in the case of a future divorce.

Pay attention. I said that I was the one who approached the idea of a pre-nup with my current H, and he said no. He brought FAR more assets to the marriage than I did. He works full-time as a senior executive in a pretty large corporation, and he brings home a hefty pay package. I work part-time in a field that gives me great personal satisfaction as well as helping people who are not as fortunate as I am, and I bring home a not-so-hefty salary with no benefits. I owned a home, and he did not. I have a son, and he is pretty expensive, I reckon! He owned 2 cars, I owned one. His retirement was far larger than mine.

He believes that pre-nups are an admission that divorce is a possibility. And he and I BOTH were already divorced, and we KNOW that marriages can end in divorce. We both KNOW that either of us could lose substantially in a divorce; he left his first marriage with about 42% of his financial assets and about 20% of household goods on HIS own decision. But he firmly believed that if we admitted that our marriage could end in divorce, then there was a greater possibility that it would.

Sort of like Carhill said - when times are rough emotionally, it helps to know that you just can't walk away when you are tired of a situation. You have to stay and try to work it out. All relationships go through ups and downs, and too many people throw out the baby with the bathwater when they make snap decisions to break up a R. If there are ramifications to the break-up, it makes people more determined to make the R work - which is better for the family unit and for society, IMHO (and a whole lot of research backs me up).

Musemaj, I look at you and I look at my husband, and I see two men. But when I look at him, I see a man who is generous to a fault, optimistic and broad-minded; when I read your posts, I picture a man who is petty, stingy in finances and emotion, and small-minded.

So all in all, it is far best that you remain single and unmarried, while my husband and I enjoy the luxury of having each other and being happy as a partnership in all aspects - legally, emotionally, spiritually, and socially. Have fun!

October 25, 2011

Why does it need a logical justification?

Good point!

October 25, 2011

I recently got married, 2nd time around, and I am in my 50's. My husband just turned 60. I think I can speak for both of us about what motivated the taking of the vows.

Certainly, no question of bearing young in this equation. He and I both had our stuff, our lives, and our own financial situations in order (somewhat, anyway). We'd both raised children to adulthood.

We had been together for 2 1/2 years, and lived together for 2 when we got married. In moments of intense emotion (or if he was tipsy,) he would mention marriage or even say semi - seriously, "will you marry me?" But, everything was fine just living together - he'd even been able to put me on his company medical insurance, which was a great boon to me because as a self employed person I'd been paying through the nose.

Anyway, we both decided that we wanted to make the formal and socially bonding step to cement our lives together. We wanted to include some friends and family in the bonding ceremony and celebration. Even though we were/ are not in the stage of life to be launching a family, to be growing our careers, or gaining "stuff," the considerations around getting married were very serious in a different way than they were the first time around for each of us.

The majority of people who get married intend to stay together "forever," I think. But when you get married at this stage of life - the reality of seeing one another through the (heh, heh) "golden years" is very … real.

I will say that there is a very different feeling about the relationship now that we are husband and wife. I NEVER felt like I would just bail if things got tough … but now, I know that I've promised I won't. My promise is very important to me. So is his.

But, back to the motivation.

Taking that step - to make a big, solemn promise to one another with our "love" at the center of it - was taking our commitment to a whole new level. That's what he wanted. Also, he is a pretty traditional person and I think he is more comfortable being married than co-habiting without the formal binding thing. Even though he is terrified of failing - he was very destroyed by the failure of his first marriage, and sometimes has self doubt.

October 25, 2011

I'm not a guy, but I look at it this way. If a man is only willing to go so far in our emotional relationship, and then he draws a line and says "this is where I get off because this is as far as we are going", that's a red flag. He is putting limitations on our relationship.

The "red flag" is insisting on a state-enforced contract for life, not 5 years, not 10 not 20... LIFE... to demonstrate emotional commitment to a relationship instead of building trust that one is loved over time. Now THAT's drawing a line, an unreasonable, irrational one IMO.

October 25, 2011

If you are looking ahead to a time when there will be trouble in the relationship then you are not that much in love or you are not committed.

By that logic, you could take any external requirement to the same wrong conclusion:

If you won't wear a tracking device then you are not that much in love or you are not committed.

If you won't wear a chastity belt then you are not that much in love or your are not committed.

If you don't spend at least $30k on an engagement ring then you are not that much in love or are not committed.

Do those sound silly? They are. But tracking devices and chastity belts can be taken off and rings pawned. How is insisting on third party, state involvement in a permanent, lifetime contract any less silly if not even moreso?

October 25, 2011

By that logic, you could take any external requirement to the same wrong conclusion:

If you won't wear a tracking device then you are not that much in love or you are not committed.

If you won't wear a chastity belt then you are not that much in love or your are not committed.

If you don't spend at least $30k on an engagement ring then you are not that much in love or are not committed.

Do those sound silly? They are. But tracking devices and chastity belts can be taken off and rings pawned. How is insisting on third party, state involvement in a permanent, lifetime contract any less silly if not even moreso?

All relationships can end, including marriage.

Marriage is not insurance against the ending of the relationship.

Marriage simply means greater commitment.

GPS tracking device and chastity belts symbolize lack of trust. If there is no trust then there should not be a marriage. So I do not get the analogy.

The ring is a material thing and does not enhance commitment.

Marriage does not enhance commitment. However, those that choose marriage seem to be more committed than those that avoid marriage like the plague.

October 25, 2011

I guess this question does apply to both men and women, although IME women associate marriage with a desired feeling of commitment and security, as well as a principle and a statement, more so than men. That's just my opinion, however, and I am a woman and not homosexual, so this question is primarily directed at men.

Sometimes immigration status and citizenship for those born outside the country.

Bottom line... it's a risk, and taking that risk makes a statement to your partner about how much you love, trust, and cherish them. 90% of the time you get knifed in the back... but what the hell... most of us guys are stupid gamblers at heart.

So really the answer to your question is Love. That's why.

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What motivation would a man have to get married as opposed to just staying in an LTR?

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