What motivation would a man have to get married as opposed to just staying in an LTR?

[Els]

So she stops nagging me!

 

Seriously, a lot the marriages I have seen were due to guys in happy ltrs having arguments with their gf. They were all happy in an ltr while the gf wanted marriage. In most cases, it was simply what the guy had to do to keep the relationship going. As a friend of mine point out, how does it change his life other than some insurance/tax breaks (he was living with his gf)?

 

Oh, that is rather sad. I guess it works for some, but it really shouldn't be that way IMO.

 

And any person who jumps into a legally binding agreement such as marriage without carefully calculating the advantages and the disadvantages of the agreement is a naive fool.

 

Besides, a woman should be the last person commenting on being calculating in viewing a marriage. After all men are generally the ones who have far less criteria in selecting a wife than the other way around.

 

Will you answer my question, please? For someone who claims that women shy away from logic, you seem poorly trained in the use of it.

[Star Gazer]

And any person who jumps into a legally binding agreement such as marriage without carefully calculating the advantages and the disadvantages of the agreement is a naive fool.

 

Besides, a woman should be the last person commenting on being calculating in viewing a marriage. After all men are generally the ones who have far less criteria in selecting a wife than the other way around.

 

I would never marry someone who views marriage as nothing more than a legally binding agreement (which it's not, if there's a pre-nup involved - THAT is the legally binding agreement, not the marriage).

 

And if you have far less criteria for selecting a mate, why aren't you in a relationship??

[Sanman]

Oh, that is rather sad. I guess it works for some, but it really shouldn't be that way IMO.

 

 

In all fairness, some don't want marriage and some just don't want the headache of weddings. However, other than kids, what real difference is there to most people compared to living together? Back in the day, most people got married just to have sex or fortify business contracts (arranged marriages/ alliances). Marriage really has nothing to do with the childhood fairy tales we hear about it.

[carhill]

I know a great person to ask this question of since he just got married at the ripe old age of 76 to a long-time friend of he and his late wife. Last time I saw him he appeared overjoyed at the prospect and, quote 'I haven't felt this good in years'. He cared for his wife for a number of years as she died of cancer.

 

Myself, it's pretty much a wash. I know the downside and the upside. I like the 'feeling' of being married and the legal and social components which attend in my particular social and economic group. A pre-nup and marriage license pretty much costs the same as all the various legal documents which would spell out the relationship of unmarried partners at my age and with the commensurate life and 'stuff' of that age.

 

The one major difference I noticed between LTR's and a M was, with the LTR's, when one of the partners had a problem, leaving solved that problem. Done. M was different. It wasn't as easy to just leave so we made efforts to reconcile our differences. I'll bet, if we hadn't been married, my exW would've left right after my mom's first stroke. Gone. Why deal with it? Who wants that kind of crap to deal with? I wouldn't have blamed her either, not now.

 

So, all else being equal, I like the feeling of consistency and commitment in evidence with a mutually and voluntarily entered contract.

 

As a friend of mine point out, how does it change his life other than some insurance/tax breaks (he was living with his gf)?

I can address one particular nuance that I can speak to clearly. As a married couple, when my dad was dying of cancer, my mom spoke for him and managed their marital affairs as his legal partner and spouse. For myself to do the same for my mom during her illness and death cost me nearly five figures in legal fees over the course of her illness, and that was with prudent legal preparation on her part prior. Stuff happens and a son ain't a spouse or legal partner. That's the tip of the 'real' iceberg of 'stuff'. It's one tiny example. My lawyer could tell you more examples, specific ones, and attach a dollar value to them for legal process. I'm just a layperson. Edited October 25, 2011 by carhill

[musemaj11]

I made no mention about what men want women to do. I simply said that, assuming your premise of men having no reason to get married because they get no benefits from it over an LTR (which I am hoping to disagree with), the logical workaround to that would be for women to simply give less 'benefits' while unmarried. Do you disagree? If so, what logical flaw do you see in that statement?

If thats what you are asking, then I very much agree.

 

However, the success of such 'tactic' depends on various external factors.

 

One factor for example is that ALL women have to unite to hold men hostage that they won't put out until the men agree to marry. Otherwise the men will simply move on to another woman who is willing to put out.

 

Practically through collective bargaining, men and women can make the other gender do anything they want. But how realistic that is is questionable.

 

Will you answer my question, please? For someone who claims that women shy away from logic, you seem poorly trained in the use of it.

Geez dude, be patient. Im typing through my smartphone. Edited October 25, 2011 by musemaj11

[Els]

In all fairness, some don't want marriage and some just don't want the headache of weddings. However, other than kids, what real difference is there to most people compared to living together? Back in the day, most people got married just to have sex or fortify business contracts (arranged marriages/ alliances). Marriage really has nothing to do with the childhood fairy tales we hear about it.

 

That is true. However, I guess I personally like what it represents, and what the emotional significance of making the greatest commitment. Giving people presents during Christmas definitely does not have any solid benefit - you waste a lot of time shopping and everyone ends up losing money in effect. But it represents many things to many people.

[Els]

Thanks for the insight, carhill. All things considered, would you do it again, then? Why or why not?

[musemaj11]

I would never marry someone who views marriage as nothing more than a legally binding agreement (which it's not, if there's a pre-nup involved - THAT is the legally binding agreement, not the marriage).

If marriage is nothing more than a show of commitment, why then nearly all women are so repulsed by the idea of a prenup? And ironically, the women who are repulsed by a prenup are ALWAYS women who have less to lose than the men financially in the case of a future divorce.

 

And if you have far less criteria for selecting a mate, why aren't you in a relationship??

Because I dont like getting shortchanged.

[carhill]

Thanks for the insight, carhill. All things considered, would you do it again, then? Why or why not?

Absolutely. When I saw the smile on my friend's face, I knew everything I needed to know. Most of the 'why' was included in my prior post.

 

I'm not afraid of love and commitment. Never have been. Lousy at choosing compatible partners, definitely. However, as long as there's breath, there's opportunity.

 

If/when I meet a like-minded lady, I'll let you know how it goes.

[Els]

If marriage is nothing more than a show of commitment, why then nearly all women are so repulsed by the idea of a prenup? And ironically, the women who are repulsed by a prenup are ALWAYS women who have less to lose than the men financially in the case of a future divorce.

 

Um, I mentioned in my OP that all this is based on the premise that a pre-nup is written up, to avoid precisely this detour. SG is probably basing her answer on that.

 

Absolutely. When I saw the smile on my friend's face, I knew everything I needed to know. Most of the 'why' was included in my prior post.

 

I'm not afraid of love and commitment. Never have been. Lousy at choosing compatible partners, definitely. However, as long as there's breath, there's opportunity.

 

If/when I meet a like-minded lady, I'll let you know how it goes.

 

Aww, that's great to hear. I'm pretty sure common law nulls the legal benefit for most people, but I'd agree that the feeling must be irreplacable.

[musemaj11]

Um, I mentioned in my OP that all this is based on the premise that a pre-nup is written up, to avoid precisely this detour. SG is probably basing her answer on that.

Then Im not opposed to the idea of marriage if it does not impose ANY legal consequences whatsoever. Its just like an LTR except you get to call each other husband and wife.

[carhill]

Aww, that's great to hear. I'm pretty sure common law nulls the legal benefit for most people, but I'd agree that the feeling must be irreplacable.

In Cali, we don't have common law, so it's all contract or wing it here. As an example, if my mom had a BF (not legal husband) at the time of her stroke, he would have faced the same issues as I did with regard to managing her affairs.

 

Of course, those issues vary by country and jurisdiction, so my example is only good in my locale.

[Woggle]

Though I have no issue being married because she was willing to sign the prenup I did it because my wife wanted it. If it were up to me the courts and the law would get out of relationships all together. A man should only marry if she agrees to an iron clad prenup.

[alphamale]

i got married at 28, divorced her at 32. no kids. i hated it. i do not plan on marrying again unless i find the most incredible woman on earth who is at least 10 yrs younger than me.

[oaks]

Motivation: It's a good excuse for an expensive party with all your friends and relatives. (Sure, you can try to have a party anyway... but you won't get them all to turn up.)

 

There can be financial incentives. Various kinds of insurance are both cheaper if you are married and can also extend to cover your spouse rather than requiring separate policies for unmarried couples. It can be easier to leave more of your estate to your spouse if you die first than to an unmarried partner (ie avoiding paying death duties to the tax man).

 

Also, it's a romantic gesture of commitment (and it's a pretty big commitment, simply because it's awkward, time consuming and complicated to end it even with a perfect pre-nup and a co-operative spouse). The romance bit only comes about through social conditioning, though, and society does change and perhaps this part is being eroded.

[somedude81]

I think it's the sense of commitment that your partner would always be there no matter what. That they should stay when times get bad.

 

But with divorce so high, that's not the case any more.

 

I think the reasons why people continue to get married is because of traditionalist values and Disney. Religion has a part if one of the parties was raised that way.

 

And Elswyth, you're a virgin? Your BF is making you wait for sex?!

 

Is he very religious? He is virgin too right?

[Els]

Oaks, is that not covered by common law in your country as well?

 

Somedude: He isn't 'making' me, no. I fully knew he preferred to wait, and I don't have much of a problem with that. There is much one can do to satisfy one another sexually without vaginal intercourse - we probably do a lot more things than many intercourse-practicing couples do, and I see his point in a way. My only motivation for wanting to lose my technical virginity prior to marriage was 'might as well be him since it has to be someone', but that isn't really a good reason. I think his reasons are more to do with reserving something special for marriage, as opposed to anything else. I guess I personally don't really care about being a 'virgin' at my marriage bed that much (and really, I think I've done too much to deserve the term in all its customary glory), but hey, if the guy wants to wait, I don't see a reason I shouldn't. As for your other questions, I think I'll give them a pass, sorry. A little too personal, I'd rather people not be able to pinpoint me.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Elswyth

[alphamale]

marriage is a farce, for every happily married couple I know there are 5 unhappily married couples.

 

i don't like those odds.

[oaks]

Oaks, is that not covered by common law in your country as well?

 

Not sure, sorry.

[alphamale]

Not sure, sorry.

no need to apologize

[Els]

Alphamale, fair enough.

 

Not sure, sorry.

 

Aw, it's okay. That was an interesting concept about the social conditioning part though. I guess we have all been socially conditioned to see romance in certain things that otherwise have little 'use'.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I think for some people, marriage indicates a more intimate bond. It also requires more responsibility. Some people want the intimacy without the responsiblity. Which is why we have less people getting married and more people treating each other causally. It's easy to self gratify yourself. It's not so easy having to think of someone else. But I firmly believe having to think of someone else makes one a better person. I know it has for me. And while some men might not see the difference between long term boyfriends and husbands, I can see a clear difference. Is that to say long term boyfriends that don't want to get married are bad guys? No. Is it to say that all husbands are good guys? Nope. But in the couples I see, there is something inexplainable about husbands vs just long term boyfriends. And it's a nice something.

 

I'm not a guy, but I look at it this way. If a man is only willing to go so far in our emotional relationship, and then he draws a line and says "this is where I get off because this is as far as we are going", that's a red flag. He is putting limitations on our relationship. It would be the same if a girlfriend said to her man that she would only do intercourse missionary style or only do blow jobs but she would never do both. In most cases, people want to feel like the relationships is open to deeper depths of intimacy. In most cases, when a man is willing to long term date a woman but not marry her, her is basically saying "this is all I am giving you. No more". And I know that when women close themselves off sexually, men feel the same message in return. And it's not a good feeling for either side.

[Els]

That is true. I think that the very people who value the institution of marriage the most, are the people who are the most cautious about entering into it, though, for the very reason that they don't take such a commitment lightly. I personally don't know when I would truly be ready for such a commitment as it signifies, as I don't personally believe in divorce (though I don't look down on people who do).

[zengirl]

It's a socialized idea, really. I find it compelling that so many people mention marrying "to have kids." If marriage is useless otherwise, why is it useful in this way (for kids)? The answer is: because you believe it to be.

 

There are some financial and practical benefits, too, of course, but I doubt they're what sway most people --- male or female --- into getting married. The truth is, it's simply how someone was socialized, male or female, in terms of love and commitment. I find the best guys (i.e. those who'd make great boyfriends anyway) want to get married; many even have a very strong desire to do so. Sure, part of that is they want to be Dads, but not all of them. It's the idea of having a partner. And they're romantics.

 

The men I know mainly DO hate weddings, though. (I'm with them on that.) But most of them want to get married. Why? Because, as a nation, we're socialized to believe that's the final form of commitment, if you plan to stay with someone for life, and I assume they like the idea of locking it down once they meet a woman they really truly love. They may not like the canapes and wedding stress and craziness of the wedding, but they found a woman they love and want to be with forever. So not really so different from why a woman wants to get married, really, except the ways they romanticize it have nothing to do with white dresses.

 

But that's a certain type of man -- not all of them. And nowadays, I'd say, it's a certain type of woman too. Plenty of girls I know have no desire whatsoever to get married. All depends. I've noticed that people who've not seen many successful marriages tend to have a lower desire to get married, which makes sense.

[counterman]

I believe that marriage is the ultimate commitment to someone. I do want to get married but will only get married if I am absolutely sure that the girl I'm with is right for me. I've seen a few relatives of mine go through divorce, some of which has been caused by cheating. I don't want to go through that.

 

Interesting enough, one of my closest guy friends asked the same question. He asked "why can't two people just live together in a long-term relationship instead of getting married?" I think marriage is a stronger form of commitment and ending a marriage is pretty messy, whereas just a relationship without the marriage, a person can be in and out of your life just like that, so there's less of a commitment. Plus, I think it says you want to be with that person forever. As for myself, I love big ceremonies, but I wouldn't get married just to have a grand wedding or just to have kids.