What motivation would a man have to get married as opposed to just staying in an LTR?

October 25, 2011

Just so that this doesn't devolve into a baseless gender war about men and women and finances and how 'men should never marry unless they want to lose their entire fortune', let's assume the premise of a pre-nup agreement being drafted to both parties' satisfaction prior to the marriage.

So. That being done, what reason would a man have to wish to marry in current society? The majority of women would happily have intercourse before marriage, so that is not required. Many women would live together before marriage too, for various reasons. So what is there left, that someone would marry for? The only answer I can think of would be children, but what if the couple does not want children? If it is for legal reasons, most countries accept de facto live-in relationships as pretty much akin to marriage for most legal purposes, AFAIK. If it is for certainty, there is divorce. If it is for love, there are... well, LTRs.

I guess this question does apply to both men and women, although IME women associate marriage with a desired feeling of commitment and security, as well as a principle and a statement, more so than men. That's just my opinion, however, and I am a woman and not homosexual, so this question is primarily directed at men.

October 25, 2011

No reason at all other than children. It's common knowledge that no amount of prenupping can avoid the extremely gender biased nature of the current legal system and that's not all about assets. To men in the U.S., marriage looks more and more like a rigged carney game at the county fair every year, men are waking up.

Also, as with so many other cultural aspects, all of the traditions favorable to men traditionally associated with the act of marriage and weddings, dowries, the likelihood of getting a relatively chaste bride, etc., are dead and gone while the traditions favorable to women, expensive engagement rings, lavish weddings, expensive honeymoons, etc. are alive and well. Imagine that. Contrary to what "the entitled" think, those pricey symbols aren't just door prizes given out to the golden vagina club but are -earned- by not using the golden vagina too much before getting married.

Doesn't take a genius to steer clear of that rigged carney game at all costs. Saw a stat the other day that at the current rate of decline in the marriage rate, marriage will become a culturally irrelevant institution sometime around 2040. Good riddance and good news for men.

October 25, 2011

Okaaay, I was trying to avoid this sort of gender flame-baiting with my pre-nup disclaimer, but I guess that went nowhere.

There are plenty of things I find inaccurate about your post, but I won't go there, as I really hope to keep this thread on-course. The question asks 'what motivation a man would have to get married', so that is what I am interested in, not the reasons a man would have to not get married, up to and including the 'golden vagina club'. I'm also not in the USA. So please, let's stick to that.

October 25, 2011

Dumbness...

October 25, 2011

Silly me, I should have known that the title would not primarily attract the people in happy marriages to provide helpful input -_-

Meh, forget it, I'll just ask friends instead.

October 25, 2011

A great prophet once said,

"If you liked it you shoulda put a ring on it"

so sayeth Beyonce.

October 25, 2011

I just asked my H, and he said (am paraphrasing), "Because I loved you and your son with my entire being, and I wanted to shout it to the entire world, and I wanted every possible method of tying myself to you (legal, emotional, spiritual, social, familial) and I wanted to protect you and take care of you as long as I can."

And he was the one who asked me to marry him; I was totally surprised. And we have both been married before (and he left his first marriage with less than half of the assets - his CHOICE), and I have a child, and he is far more financially stable than I am, and I asked for a pre-nup and he refused, and we will not be having another child.

(And no, for the eyerollers, he is not a moron; let's call him a very successful, very well respected, senior executive type.)

October 25, 2011

I just asked my H, and he said (am paraphrasing), "Because I loved you and your son with my entire being, and I wanted to shout it to the entire world, and I wanted every possible method of tying myself to you (legal, emotional, spiritual, social, familial) and I wanted to protect you and take care of you as long as I can."

And he was the one who asked me to marry him; I was totally surprised. And we have both been married before (and he left his first marriage with less than half of the assets - his CHOICE), and I have a child, and he is far more financially stable than I am, and I asked for a pre-nup and he refused, and we will not be having another child.

(And no, for the eyerollers, he is not a moron; let's call him a very successful, very well respected, senior executive type.)

Thanks for the input, L_O. The 'every method' part is quite an eye-opener.

I am mainly asking, because it suddenly struck me that there might be a good reason the bf had wanted to save vaginal intercourse til after engagement. I think it was partially because he wanted to have something 'left', something we had not done, to look forward to upon marriage, the final symbolic 'barrier' to breach.

I'm not sure if it is a good mentality to have, or even if I am correct, but I guess I don't think it's wrong, especially since we have done pretty much everything else that a married couple would have and possibly more (and I do mean everything, if anyone misses the subtle nuance). I had previously intended to gently ask him for it again, because I figured I had to get my virginity taken someday, and better this man who had been with me through better or worse for 3+ years, than anyone else. But I think now, I should wait, as he suggested. I really am not sure if it will affect things either way in the future, though.

October 25, 2011

There are plenty of things I find inaccurate about your post, but I won't go there, as I really hope to keep this thread on-course.

My reply was completely topical, you simply don't like my POV. That's fine but let's not act like I'm trying to derail your thread somehow.

October 25, 2011

I'm not a man, so... take this as you will...

But I think there are still some very traditional men out there who have a lot of pride in the institution of marriage and the ability to call a woman his "wife." I think it brings out the protective, caretaking instinct in some men and is important for them to feel the sense of being part of a family (even if it is just the two) and a home, and marriage solidifies that.

October 25, 2011

I made a couple threads about this a while back.

There is absolutely very little benefits that a man gets from a marriage that he cannot get from a non-marital long term relationship.

Getting married is what a foolish man does.

But I think there are still some very traditional men out there who have a lot of pride in the institution of marriage and the ability to call a woman his "wife." I think it brings out the protective, caretaking instinct in some men and is important for them to feel the sense of being part of a family (even if it is just the two) and a home, and marriage solidifies that.

Until one day he sees that hot young thang and realizes that he is trapped in a cage for life! LOL

October 25, 2011

I'm not a man, so... take this as you will...

But I think there are still some very traditional men out there who have a lot of pride in the institution of marriage and the ability to call a woman his "wife." I think it brings out the protective, caretaking instinct in some men and is important for them to feel the sense of being part of a family (even if it is just the two) and a home, and marriage solidifies that.

Mm, excellent point. I guess, though, that the majority of completely traditional men I know (those who not only want to protect and caretake, but also greatly want the traditional institution of marriage to solidify that) do want children, and the married couples I know mostly got married just in time to pop one out from the oven, not much sooner. I had noticed that for the past 1-2 years during the blitz of marriages I witnessed after graduation. Do you know many traditional couples who don't wish to have children?

October 25, 2011

So, the men on this thread are of the opinion that women should 'give men fewer benefits in LTRs' so that they will have motivation to desire marriage? Curiouser and curiouser, but a valid viewpoint nevertheless I suppose.

October 25, 2011

Lots of men feel more secure in marriage, as husbands, than they do as mere boyfriends. I have heard men mention the prestige among other men, of basically having proved that they can lasso a female of their own and have someone to cook them dinner. I see lots of men rushing to marry.

October 25, 2011

Social status, carreer move.

In some strongly hierarchic companies once you get up to the level where it is expected to play golf with the guy above you both men living together with a girlfriend and singles above a certain age are somewhat frowned upon and will be less likely to be promoted than the same guy with a ring on his finger.

October 25, 2011

So, the men on this thread are of the opinion that women should 'give men fewer benefits in LTRs' so that they will have motivation to desire marriage? Curiouser and curiouser, but a valid viewpoint nevertheless I suppose.

The bigger question is why does a woman want to get married, if she doesn't want children? Not saying there is anything wrong with the desire. But the implication in the text quoted above is that the woman always wants to get married, and the guy doesn't.

If children are not desired, there really is no strong logical argument for marriage except for the financial benefits (and there are some rather compelling financial and legal benefits of being married... however those benefits are completely wiped away and then some if the couple divorces).

There are strong emotional reasons though. Do you think these emotional components are always stronger for women than men?

October 25, 2011

I just asked my H, and he said (am paraphrasing), "Because I loved you and your son with my entire being, and I wanted to shout it to the entire world, and I wanted every possible method of tying myself to you (legal, emotional, spiritual, social, familial) and I wanted to protect you and take care of you as long as I can."

And he was the one who asked me to marry him; I was totally surprised. And we have both been married before (and he left his first marriage with less than half of the assets - his CHOICE), and I have a child, and he is far more financially stable than I am, and I asked for a pre-nup and he refused, and we will not be having another child.

(And no, for the eyerollers, he is not a moron; let's call him a very successful, very well respected, senior executive type.)

A typical manipulated man who values himself by how much sacrifice he is willing to do for a woman.

Silly me, I should have known that the title would not primarily attract the people in happy marriages to provide helpful input -_-

Meh, forget it, I'll just ask friends instead.

I dont think you should ask a question to a public audience if you are just seeking an answer that you want to hear.

So, the men on this thread are of the opinion that women should 'give men fewer benefits in LTRs' so that they will have motivation to desire marriage? Curiouser and curiouser, but a valid viewpoint nevertheless I suppose.

Lol, what a way to twist words. Thats like saying men need to give fewer benefits to women in a marriage in order to give them motivation to not want to get married. :laugh:

Lots of men feel more secure in marriage, as husbands, than they do as mere boyfriends. I have heard men mention the prestige among other men, of basically having proved that they can lasso a female of their own and have someone to cook them dinner. I see lots of men rushing to marry.

Only desperate or naive men rush to marry.

Its very rare for example for male hearththrobs who have women throwing themselves at them to want to rush into marriage. Its not a coincidence Im certain.

In many more conservative societies though, Men rush to marry because they dont know any other alternative.

Edited October 25, 2011 by musemaj11

October 25, 2011

The bigger question is why does a woman want to get married, if she doesn't want children? Not saying there is anything wrong with the desire. But the implication in the text quoted above is that the woman always wants to get married, and the guy doesn't.

If children are not desired, there really is no strong logical argument for marriage except for the financial benefits (and there are some rather compelling financial and legal benefits of being married... however those benefits are completely wiped away and then some if the couple divorces).

There are strong emotional reasons though. Do you think these emotional components are always stronger for women than men?

I agree with everything you said, OO. My personal experience has been that women emotionally value marriage over a man though. It may not be PC, and of course it may be completely wrong, but that has just been my experience. Has yours been otherwise?

I dont think you should ask a question to a public audience if you are just seeking an answer that you want to hear.

I'm sorry, but I don't think 'dumbness....' or a rant about the 'golden vagina club' is a good answer to virtually any thread here. If you think so, well, I'm frankly not surprised, but let's leave it at that.

Lol, what a way to twist words. Thats like saying in order for men to make women not want marriage, men need to give them fewer benefits in marriage. :laugh:

Um, yes, that would be the logical counterpoint, if a man wishes to never marry.

Can you think of any other way around your self-claimed statement of 'men have no reason to marry because anything that they can get from marriage can be gotten from an LTR'?

October 25, 2011

Social status, carreer move.

In some strongly hierarchic companies once you get up to the level where it is expected to play golf with the guy above you both men living together with a girlfriend and singles above a certain age are somewhat frowned upon and will be less likely to be promoted than the same guy with a ring on his finger.

This is actually a great point, but is fading out rapidly as the old "golf set" executive class ages.

Also forgot religion before. So modifying my prior post to include religious reasons and social/career advancement reasons.

Also agree with Olive's point. Reasons for either gender to marry that dont involve children or religion all seem overly sentimental and not rational.

The time is nigh for "permanent" relationships between men and women where children and religion are not involved to go away or get modified and modernized. I would LOVE for enforceable short term fidelity agreements to exist, as today those would be of tremendous benefit in leveling the relationship field between men and women.

October 25, 2011

This is actually a great point, but is fading out rapidly as the old "golf set" executive class ages.

Also forgot religion before. So modifying my prior post to include religious reasons and social/career advancement reasons.

Also agree with Olive's point. Reasons for either gender to marry that dont involve children or religion all seem overly sentimental and not rational.

The time is nigh for "permanent" relationships between men and women where children and religion are not involved to go away or get modified and modernized. I would LOVE for enforceable short term fidelity agreements to exist, as today those would be of tremendous benefit in leveling the relationship field between men and women.

Thanks, that was a good answer. Again, I don't necessarily agree with it, but it was enlightening.

October 25, 2011

I'm sorry, but I don't think 'dumbness....' or a rant about the 'golden vagina club' is a good answer to virtually any thread here. If you think so, well, I'm frankly not surprised, but let's leave it at that.

However snarky an answer is, its still valid as long as it has factual basis.

Um, yes, that would be the logical counterpoint, if a man wishes to never marry. Can you think of any other way around your self-claimed statement of 'men have no reason to marry because anything that they can get from marriage can be gotten from an LTR'?

I was just saying that when I said, "there is little benefits for a man from a marriage that he cannot get from an LTR", its not the same as saying, "men want women to give them fewer benefits in an LTR in order to motivate him to get married." Thats called twisting words.

October 25, 2011

There is absolutely very little benefits that a man gets from a marriage that he cannot get from a non-marital long term relationship.

Any person, male or female, who views the sanctity of marriage and the marital bond in terms of "benefits" (aka, "What can you do for me??") shouldn't be getting married anyway.

October 25, 2011

However snarky an answer is, its still valid as long as it has factual basis.

I was just saying that when I said, "there is little benefits for a man from a marriage that he cannot get from an LTR", its not the same as saying, "men want women to give them fewer benefits in an LTR in order to motivate him to get married." Thats called twisting words.

I made no mention about what men want women to do. I simply said that, assuming your premise of men having no reason to get married because they get no benefits from it over an LTR (which I am hoping to disagree with), the logical workaround to that would be for women to simply give less 'benefits' while unmarried. Do you disagree? If so, what logical flaw do you see in that statement?

Any person, male or female, who views the sanctity of marriage and the marital bond in terms of "benefits" (aka, "What can you do for me??") shouldn't be getting married anyway.

I think this is a good way of looking at it, yes. But I think it is the way of the world that people often choose actions for their own benefit as well, although for most of us, there is a balance between receiving and giving.

October 25, 2011

So she stops nagging me!

Seriously, a lot the marriages I have seen were due to guys in happy ltrs having arguments with their gf. They were all happy in an ltr while the gf wanted marriage. In most cases, it was simply what the guy had to do to keep the relationship going. As a friend of mine point out, how does it change his life other than some insurance/tax breaks (he was living with his gf)?

October 25, 2011

Any person, male or female, who views the sanctity of marriage and the marital bond in terms of "benefits" (aka, "What can you do for me??") shouldn't be getting married anyway.

And any person who jumps into a legally binding agreement such as marriage without carefully calculating the advantages and the disadvantages of the agreement is a naive fool.

Besides, a woman should be the last person commenting on being calculating in viewing a marriage. After all men are generally the ones who have far less criteria in selecting a wife than the other way around.

Sign In

What motivation would a man have to get married as opposed to just staying in an LTR?

Recommended Posts

Els

dasein

Els

ChessPieceFace

Els

LoveBear22

Lucky_One

Els

dasein

OliveOyl

musemaj11

Els

Els

SoleMate

Jynxx

OliveOyl

musemaj11

Els

dasein

Els

musemaj11

Star Gazer

Els

Sanman

musemaj11

What's New

My Activity Streams

More...