Responding to the Fade Out?

[CarrieInNYC]

Long-time lurker, first time poster with a question regarding how, if at all, to respond to the "no contact fade-out" in the early stages of dating (3-4 dates). I realize the general consensus is that people a) should but b) often do not affirmatively end things with someone with whom they've been out on a several dates with but are no longer interested in seeing with a short email/phone call saying, e.g., "You seem like a great person, but I don't think this is going to work for me. Good luck with everything!' or something to that effect. I realize that the less adult but probably as or more common approach is to just stop calling/returning phone calls until the other person gets the hint.

 

My question relates to what my options are if a guy probably needs to but is not sending the good-bye message. In my particular case circumstances are such that I truly feel the fade-out is disrespectful. That said, do I just ignore it and let myself be faded? Or is there something I can say?

 

For reference--I met this guy about 6 weeks ago at a singles event. We spoke briefly but exchanged email addresses. He emailed me the next day asking for a date. I unfortunately had a guest in from out-of-town, so it took about 10 days to set up the first date, but we eventually met up for weeknight drinks. He walked me home, no kiss (he looked like he wanted to try but wasn't sure of himself). He then emailed the next day to say he had a great time and to set something up for the following week. The next week we had a weeknight dinner date. After the date, he invited me back to his apartment for a nightcap where we engaged in some pretty heavy making out instigated mostly by him--I was the only who had to put an affirmative stop, or we would have ended up having sex. While I was there, he was very encouraging--saying how he wanted to see me again, etc. After I left, he followed up with a text telling me how he had a great time, couldn't wait to see me again, etc.

 

After the second date I didn't hear from him for a week. I probably should at this point have "taken the hint," but what can I say? I'm used to dealing with adults and trying to give men the benefit of the doubt. After a week of no contact, I emailed him asking if he wanted to hang out the next Sunday (which by this point would have been 10 days after our second date). He wrote back that it sounded like a great idea and that he would love to get together but he had a friend in from out-of-town that weekend and he didn't know whether he would have the energy after his friend left and could he let me know on Sunday? I realize at this point I should have told him "let's just do another day," but I stupidly agreed to his plan, and on Sunday he emailed confirming he was too tired to come out but hinting that if I wanted to come over and hang out that would be cool but that at any rate we should set something up for the following week. I declined the transparent booty call invitation, and we ended up setting up a date for Friday (2 weeks and a couple of days after our second date).

 

The Friday date went, I thought, great. During the date he made affirmative reference to things we should do/go see in the future. We went back to his apartment and engaged in slightly heavier making out and petting (no sex), and he even asked if I wanted to spend the night. When I left, it was more about the "I can't wait to do this again," etc. etc.

 

That was Friday 10 days ago. In the intervening time we've exchanged a few emails (sometimes by his instigation, sometimes by mine). One of his emails to me made joking reference to "future dates" such that it seemed to presume that such dates would occur. He's never affirmatively failed to respond to one of my messages, but he also hasn't made concrete plans to see me, and I haven't heard anything at all from him since Wednesday (5 days ago).

 

It seems pretty clear to me at this point that for whatever he's willing to do when we get together and for whatever he says that he's not all that interested. Unclear whether our third date would have happened but for my instigation, and the pattern is being repeated. Two weeks between dates is a very long time. I'm annoyed but not devastated--I definitely liked him enough to keep seeing him, but it's not like I was 100% sold on the relationship myself after only three dates.

 

I'm primarily annoyed not because of his lack of interest but because of the way he his handling it. When we were together, he clearly went out of his way to say (completely unnecessary!) things to me regarding future dates, future plans, wanting to see me again, that he really did not have to say and really should not have said if he was still uncertain. I realize people can get caught up in the moment and/or other things can intervene (other women he's dating, perhaps) such that they mean these things when they say them but later change their minds, but I feel that having said things like this that if a guy decides he no longer means them that I'm owed at least the courtesy of a "no thanks" email.

 

My question is this--is there anything i can do/say in this situation other than just, you know, never contacting him again, that would not make me look like a crazy person? I don't want to send him a 5-page email venting about how he's an ******* who broke my heart (this isn't even true), but something more along the lines of "hey, haven't heard from you in a while. I take it this means you're not interested? If that's true, I would have appreciated your letting me know" or something to that effect.

 

I'm honestly tired of being treated poorly in the dating scene by guys who "get away with it" because they know there will be no negative repercussions to their bad behavior. I'm hardily a psycho angry ex from hell, but I DO feel like a) I deserve respect, and b) I should be able to calmly and maturely stand up for myself when I feel I'm being treated disrespectfully.

 

What do you think? Is there a way to respond to the "no contact fade-out" that doesn't make me look like a crazy person? Or is my only real option just never speaking to him again?

Edited October 24, 2011 by CarrieInNYC
typos

[Emilia]

I'm not really sure what you mean by fade-out, he hasn't disappeared. You are unhappy that he doesn't want to see you frequently enough so why don't you ask him what the deal is? Why don't you say 'I like your company but to me fortnightly dates are pointless because they are too infrequent, please make up your mind whether you want to date me or whether you want to call it quits'. Why don't you take control of your own happiness?

[Imajerk17]

I agree that you are entitled to some sort of straight answer. A lot of people aren't capable of giving it, sad to say.

 

How would you feel about calling him?

[CarrieInNYC]

It's true, Emilia, I'm not getting the hard core "not returning your phone calls" vanishing act. But given that I had to set up our third date (after a week of no contact) and that it's been 10 days since our third date and he hasn't reached out to make plans, I think it's safe to assume that I'm experiencing the "I'm ending this without actually saying so" treatment.

 

That said, you raise a good point that because he hasn't technically vanished, if I'm going to say anything it should probably take into account that he isn't actually stonewalling.

 

Imajerk17, we've never actually talked on the phone? Weird to some, I know. But neither of us is a phone person. We email/text. I guess I could call if I wanted, but somehow that seems weirdly an excessively aggressive. I'm not really looking for a dramatic scene. I really just sort of want to say "Hey, no hard feelings, but seriously? Not cool."

[Emilia]

It sounds to me then that neither of you know what the other wants. Without proper communication it will be tricky to build the kind of rapport that you need for a relationship I think. If you are both this passive I'm not quite sure what future you are expecting really.

[CarrieInNYC]

It sounds to me then that neither of you know what the other wants. Without proper communication it will be tricky to build the kind of rapport that you need for a relationship I think. If you are both this passive I'm not quite sure what future you are expecting really.

Good point. I guess what I'm looking for is a suggestion on how to be more assertive. Specifically, what I can do at this point to break the cycle and get this resolved. I thought initiating our third date was a concrete step in showing interest. Given that we don't actually have a fourth date arranged, I don't really feel like I'm in a position to say "these twice a month dates aren't working." If he actually asked again, then I could say that, sure. No clue at this point whether he will or not, though I'm leaning against.

 

Not sure general passivity is the problem on his part. He was pretty direct in setting up our first couple of dates, and he's been pretty physically assertive, though not excessively so (that is to say, he doesn't pressure me to do more than I'm comfortable with and doesn't express any negative sentiments when I call a halt, but he's definitely not shy about escalating physical contact and making his desires in that area known.)

 

Maybe I've overinternalized the message that some women need to internalize more in just assuming that if a guy isn't actively and regularly pursuing me, it must mean he's just not interested, but I kind of doubt it. I really think he's just not that into me.

 

That said, suggestions on how to deal with this situation to resolve it in a manner that is assertive and reasonable and not crazy and excessive are greatly appreciated.

[blueskyday]

You are in that "in-between" stage: not in a consistent dating situation where things are progressing towards more dates and a familiarity, yet more than one date where you don't expect anything.

 

Tough one. How did you last leave it? If he asked and you declined last, then text him about doing something this weekend. If he bailed last time, then he should know it's up to him because he's got the ball....and if he doesn't know this, then you've got a lazy guy on your hands so forget him.

 

If I read your post correctly, you both set up the last date. So, if it were me, I'd send him an upbeat text like, "Hey, would love to see you this weekend!"

 

Then hang back and see if he sets something up. I would want to see some progression here to continue, but he may be in the same boat wanting to see if you are interested.

 

So, I'd throw him the line and see if he takes the bait. If he doesn't, then I would go date others. In my experience, I want a guy who is interested and shows it. After 3 dates, you are probably contemplating exclusivity, so interest and consistency are necessary....otherwise, it's time to date other guys. He doesn't have a claim on you.

[CarrieInNYC]

I guess we last left it as I was leaving his apartment, he said he couldn't wait until next time and would see me soon (or something to that effect). I sent him an email Monday (so, three days later), and he responded. He emailed me Tuesday, and I responded. I emailed him Wed, and he responded. Since then, radio silence. There has been no concrete mention on either side of an actual specific date on any specific day.

 

Should I really reach out again? Again, maybe I've over-internalized the "he's just not interested" message, but I set up the third date, he bailed and rescheduled. I really would have thought if he was interested in a fourth that he would reach out in some specific way.

[stillafool]

I, but I set up the third date, he bailed and rescheduled. I really would have thought if he was interested in a fourth that he would reach out in some specific way.

 

He would. Don't contact him again, let him contact you for a date.

[CarrieInNYC]

He would. Don't contact him again, let him contact you for a date.

Well, that's kind of the point. That was my plan (waiting for him to contact me if he wanted), but I think it's entirely fair to assume at this point that he's not going to. That is to say, that I'm receiving the "fade-out" treatment. I frankly think it's pretty rude all things considered and would kind of like to tell him so--politely but in a way that makes me feel like I've stood up for myself. Is that so crazy?

[tkgirl]

Well, that's kind of the point. That was my plan (waiting for him to contact me if he wanted), but I think it's entirely fair to assume at this point that he's not going to. That is to say, that I'm receiving the "fade-out" treatment. I frankly think it's pretty rude all things considered and would kind of like to tell him so--politely but in a way that makes me feel like I've stood up for myself. Is that so crazy?

 

hey Carrie! I know how you feel.. it sucks when guys do this and it feels like we let them get away with it by not saying anything.. but honestly, I think it's better for us that we don't say anything. Just write him off as the flake that he is, was probably only in it for one thing and not what you are looking for.. that you deserve better. Take the high road and all that... And if and when he does call you (or text or email) then just don't respond... or just you can just tell you've already moved on.. which is what you should be doing right now anyways!

 

good luck girl!!!

[InJest]

Unless you two are in high school, he's probably written you off as a tease.

[Lobouspo]

I recently went through the same thing as you. Was seeing someone once every couple weeks with only sporadic contact in between dates. Got tired of the game playing and confronted her about it (ie if u wanna date let's date, if not let me just move on no hard feelings). My point being if you confront him, he may just give you some BS explanation and continue to string you along. I finally just told her I would not contact her anymore but good luck I still think you r great. You just may wanna take the high road and commit to NC before you sleep with this guy and really get hurt. Just my 2 cents

[CarrieInNYC]

Unless you two are in high school, he's probably written you off as a tease.

Pardon? Is not sleeping with someone on the third date in this day and age being a "tease"? Wow.

 

tkgirl, I see your point. That's probably the path I'll end up taking. I just wish there were a polite way to tell someone that their behavior was noted and not appreciated. I'm not in any way devastated about this. I just am tired of the BS in the dating scene in general and would really like a way to just say "hey, you hurt me, and that wasn't cool" to someone without having it be a big production.

 

Lobouspro, if he does actually get in contact again (unsure at this point), I would DEFINITELY have that conversation with him before ANY sort of physical contact happened again. I might go out with him, but if there is any hope to having an actual relationship here--and honestly, I think chances are very slim--we need, at a minimum, to have a talk about expectations.

[InJest]

Pardon? Is not sleeping with someone on the third date in this day and age being a "tease"? Wow.

 

No, just not sleeping with someone on the third date is not being a tease. Going back to someone's house after a fun date, heavily making out, and then shutting them down when they want to go further..twice, is being a tease.

[CarrieInNYC]

No, just not sleeping with someone on the third date is not being a tease. Going back to someone's house after a fun date, heavily making out, and then shutting them down when they want to go further..twice, is being a tease.

What do you suggest as an alternative? I live in New York, so inside people's apartments is pretty much the only place there is any privacy.

 

He was 100% the instigator. I was a little taken aback when, e.g., after 3 minutes of kissing on our second date he started trying to unbutton my shirt. Both times I let him go as far as I was comfortable with, then stopped him. I guess I could have stopped him at an earlier point, but honestly I think sex is something you build up to. I don't necessarily think that you go from chaste good-night kisses to sex in the span of one date. And both times, I let him know EARLY ON in the encounter that sex was a no-go. He could have stopped at whatever point he wanted to knowing that there wasn't going to be any sex. It wasn't like I got him all worked up and then pulled the emergency brake.

[tkgirl]

Pardon? Is not sleeping with someone on the third date in this day and age being a "tease"? Wow.

 

tkgirl, I see your point. That's probably the path I'll end up taking. I just wish there were a polite way to tell someone that their behavior was noted and not appreciated. I'm not in any way devastated about this. I just am tired of the BS in the dating scene in general and would really like a way to just say "hey, you hurt me, and that wasn't cool" to someone without having it be a big production.

 

Lobouspro, if he does actually get in contact again (unsure at this point), I would DEFINITELY have that conversation with him before ANY sort of physical contact happened again. I might go out with him, but if there is any hope to having an actual relationship here--and honestly, I think chances are very slim--we need, at a minimum, to have a talk about expectations.

 

I know girl.. like I said, I've been there.. in my case I did say something and even though I tried not to sound crazy, I think I still did. My situation it was a little different though.. we had been dating for a while but felt he was just too casual about it. So I called him on it, let him off easy and said we're "just in different places" that wasn't the crazy part... that came later when he contacted me again and told me he missed me... only to disappear again. I let it go that time but when he tried to do it again, I sort of went off on him.. told him don't call me ever again, that I wasn't into games etc. I don't know why because it sounds reasonable to get that upset but I still wish to this day I would have handled it differently.. like if I could have just been indifferent and not contacted him at all. Maybe it comes down to not letting these kind of guys get to us... that we need to think more of ourselves to even be worried about it?

[InJest]

What do you suggest as an alternative? I live in New York, so inside people's apartments is pretty much the only place there is any privacy.

 

I suggest not going home with a guy unless you're willing to have sex with him.

 

And both times, I let him know EARLY ON in the encounter that sex was a no-go. He could have stopped at whatever point he wanted to knowing that there wasn't going to be any sex. It wasn't like I got him all worked up and then pulled the emergency brake.

 

I've had several girls tell me directly they're not having sex with me that night, only to have sex with me that night. I think maybe two out of five or six.

 

In any event, like you said, you live in New York. That means there are thousands of women out every night that have everything you have to offer, and they'll put out. In addition to those, there are also thousands of women who may offer a bit less than you, but will put out. One of the main reasons I love NY.

 

Take it from a guy that does the fade out, it's basically a way of saying, "**** you", while still leaving the door open for yourself in case she magically wants to sleep with you in the future..it happens but very rarely. Usually the girl just sits there upset, like you are, and that's good enough for me. You probably shouldn't waste any more time on the guy, definitely don't contact him to let him know how you feel. He'll either show it to his buddies and laugh, or he'll see it as renewed interest and try to sleep with you again.

[CarrieInNYC]

I know girl.. like I said, I've been there.. in my case I did say something and even though I tried not to sound crazy, I think I still did. My situation it was a little different though.. we had been dating for a while but felt he was just too casual about it. So I called him on it, let him off easy and said we're "just in different places" that wasn't the crazy part... that came later when he contacted me again and told me he missed me... only to disappear again. I let it go that time but when he tried to do it again, I sort of went off on him.. told him don't call me ever again, that I wasn't into games etc. I don't know why because it sounds reasonable to get that upset but I still wish to this day I would have handled it differently.. like if I could have just been indifferent and not contacted him at all. Maybe it comes down to not letting these kind of guys get to us... that we need to think more of ourselves to even be worried about it?

Yeah, I get you. It's hard trying to be an adult having a relationship with someone who isn't making the same effort. I don't know if I hope this guy contacts me again or if I hope he doesn't at this point. If he asks me out again at this point, I'd almost be insulted, you know?

[stillafool]

At least you didn't sleep with him. His loss. You can hold your head up about that.