How do I get women to approach me (guy)?

[insertnamehere]

I dont understand your point.

 

Are you saying we all should stick closely to certain gender roles?

 

"Men approach; women don't" is pretty much the de facto rule anyhow. While a lot changed with the Sexual Revolution, that rule survived almost entirely intact.

 

I see no reason to tinker with a rule that has held up through many permutations of western sexual ethics.

 

Anytime I see a guy begging for ways to "get women to approach", I feel like someone missed orientation day. Fact is, it's fairly rare for women to approach men.

 

From my perspective, having been approached a decent number of times by women, I just don't like it. When I say that, I mean the full-on approach. Close proximity, forearm touch type range. Full conversational open with a clear attempt to extend as necessary to keep pushing forward.

 

I don't like it. I have never, ever responded positively to it.

Edited October 27, 2011 by insertnamehere

[musemaj11]

"Men approach; women don't" is pretty much the de facto rule anyhow. While a lot changed with the Sexual Revolution, that rule survived almost entirely intact.

 

I see no reason to tinker with a rule that has held up through many permutations of western sexual ethics.

 

Anytime I see a guy begging for ways to "get women to approach", I feel like someone missed orientation day. Fact is, it's fairly rare for women to approach men.

I believe people are free adopt what way is best for them in leading their personal lives.

 

But I don't like strict gender roles that demand people to follow a designated line.

 

I wonder if your conservative view is due to cultural or generational factor.

 

From my perspective, having been approached a decent number of times by women, I just don't like it. When I say that, I mean the full-on approach. Close proximity, forearm touch type range. Full conversational open with a clear attempt to extend as necessary to keep pushing forward.

 

I don't like it. I have never, ever responded positively to it.

I dont expect women to approach me. I approach women Im attracted to. But I have been approached a few times and I had no problem with it. Its just that I havent had the luck to be approached by a woman whim I actually found attractive.

[insertnamehere]

I'm 33 and was raised by a widowed mother who is hardcore liberal, old school "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" liberal. My dad died when I was five. It's not upbringing.

 

At the end of the day, math and evolution have rendered a verdict on this matter. Male demand for women is higher than female demand for men. Therefore, men get stuck making the first bid.

 

I think, if anything, liberalism has enhanced this effect. After all, if women can reproduce when they wish and can make a living without a man, much of the value of a man fades away. Where a hundred years ago it was imperative to get a good man, now it's just sort of a thing to do whenever.

 

The way sex games out, the first move defaults to the man.

[musemaj11]

I'm 33 and was raised by a widowed mother who is hardcore liberal, old school "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" liberal. My dad died when I was five. It's not upbringing.

 

At the end of the day, math and evolution have rendered a verdict on this matter. Male demand for women is higher than female demand for men. Therefore, men get stuck making the first bid.

 

I think, if anything, liberalism has enhanced this effect. After all, if women can reproduce when they wish and can make a living without a man, much of the value of a man fades away. Where a hundred years ago it was imperative to get a good man, now it's just sort of a thing to do whenever.

 

The way sex games out, the first move defaults to the man.

It all goes both ways actually.

 

Men need women no more than women need men.

 

I grew up in a traditional third world country. One think I notice is that in a liberal country, women are dependent on men less, but at the same time, men need women less as well. In traditional countries for example, many men are dependent on their mothers, spouses or maids when it comes to 'womanly jobs' such as cooking, ironing, cleaning, etc. On the other hand, nearly all men in developed countries have also learned to be able to take care of themselves.

 

Currently, Im staying temporarily in my old country. And as my dating life goes, Im having a hard time taking interest in all the traditional women here because after living in non-traditional country for so long, I have learned to be independent and cannot see the benefit in what these women have to offer. Many men here are willing to trade an income with the luxury of not having to lift a finger once they are home. But Im not willing to do that because Im used to do everything around the house.

[zengirl]

I know plenty of women who will approach, to various degrees, including myself. I messaged my BF first online and have messaged or walked up and started conversations with many other guys that have led to dates.

 

What makes me go up to a guy?

 

Attraction, sure, so I have to think he's cute.

And I have to think there's some reason to believe we'd be compatible and have some knowledge about his personality, which is why I'm WAY more likely to write first online than go up to some guy out in public. Now, if I know a guy, and I find him interesting, I'm totally up for flirting with him, and that'll do the trick, honestly.

 

But the reason I don't go up to random guys in public in an "approach" way is I honestly don't understand why anyone, male or female, would do so. I love meeting new people and making friends, so I do talk to strangers in appropriate places (social settings, like pubs or at events or whatnot) at times --- I do that even now, and I'm not single. But as for actually approaching someone? If I don't know him, I'm not going to feel any real pull to do so. Online, I can learn a lot from a guy's profile, and get that little pull, but just seeing a guy out in public isn't going to do anything.

 

Now, this would go ESPECIALLY if the guy was a 6.5, as the OP self-rated. I mean, that means the guy is average looking at best and I don't know him. What would be the draw? Looks certainly aren't everything, BUT if they're the only thing you know about a person, the only way they'd be enough to draw you over would be if: (a) They were really good looks and (b) Looks alone are enough to intrigue you. With many women and the OP, NEITHER of those are true, and with all women and the OP, (a) is not true, so it's going to result in pretty much 0% success.

[Cypress25]

Don't pretend like you put in as much effort as us.

 

I don't have to pretend.

 

The least you can do is giving us the credit we deserve for asking you out, initiating all the contact, initiating the kiss, initiating all affection, initiating "the talk" and guiding it towards a relationship.

 

I certainly do give men credit for that. I don't give credit to the ones who whine about it, like it's the biggest inconvenience in the world. "Why do I have to do all that, why can't women do it instead?" Yeah, that's not attractive.

 

And I doubt you initiate ALL the affection. You just don't notice or acknowledge when the woman does it. Like a lot of guys don't notice the effort their girlfriends/wives put into the relationship because they take it for granted.

 

While you for the most part remains passive and just gladly accept our advances.

 

I've never been passive in a relationship. Being passive doesn't sound like much fun, and a relationship can't get off the ground if one person is passive. I don't personally know any women who are passive about dating either, but I don't know everyone in the world, so they probably do exist. I just think it's rare.

[futuregopher]

I know plenty of women who will approach, to various degrees, including myself. I messaged my BF first online and have messaged or walked up and started conversations with many other guys that have led to dates.

 

What makes me go up to a guy?

 

Attraction, sure, so I have to think he's cute.

And I have to think there's some reason to believe we'd be compatible and have some knowledge about his personality, which is why I'm WAY more likely to write first online than go up to some guy out in public. Now, if I know a guy, and I find him interesting, I'm totally up for flirting with him, and that'll do the trick, honestly.

 

But the reason I don't go up to random guys in public in an "approach" way is I honestly don't understand why anyone, male or female, would do so. I love meeting new people and making friends, so I do talk to strangers in appropriate places (social settings, like pubs or at events or whatnot) at times --- I do that even now, and I'm not single. But as for actually approaching someone? If I don't know him, I'm not going to feel any real pull to do so. Online, I can learn a lot from a guy's profile, and get that little pull, but just seeing a guy out in public isn't going to do anything.

 

Now, this would go ESPECIALLY if the guy was a 6.5, as the OP self-rated. I mean, that means the guy is average looking at best and I don't know him. What would be the draw? Looks certainly aren't everything, BUT if they're the only thing you know about a person, the only way they'd be enough to draw you over would be if: (a) They were really good looks and (b) Looks alone are enough to intrigue you. With many women and the OP, NEITHER of those are true, and with all women and the OP, (a) is not true, so it's going to result in pretty much 0% success.

 

Well to be fair let me explain my rating system. A 5 is average and 10 is Cristiano Ronaldo

[Cypress25]

Women who whine about having to start initiating things and put in effort aka do what we men have been doing 10 times more than you. Is equally unattractive.

 

I've never heard women whining about it. They happily put in the necessary effort. Many women are not comfortable making the initial approach because that is traditionally the man's job, so they just don't do it. But they don't whine about it.

 

Giving hints or signals for the man to initiate affection is not the same thing as actually initiating it.

 

I'm talking about real initiating. Are you telling me that in every relationship you've ever had, throughout the entire relationship, the girl never initiated anything, ever? I doubt it.

 

What is it that you do that makes you not passive then? Do you take action? Do you take actual initiatives?

 

I've already gone into detail in previous posts about my behavior in relationships. You keep asking this question, I've already answered it. Go back and re-read.

 

Who asks you out and plans the dates? Who calls you and texts you? Who reaches out for your hand to hold hands? Who kisses you? Who hugs you?

 

The first time any of those things happen? He does. After that, it's pretty much equal between us, he initiates sometimes and I initiate sometimes. Until he eventually goes into lazy boyfriend mode (usually around the 6-month mark), and then it's mostly me doing those things.

 

It's the guy, in every thing. You might give hints, signals and so forth but that IS still being passive.

 

You are passive by defenition. Being unpassive would require you to for example pick up the phone and give a call or plan a date or something.

 

Of course I pick up the phone and call/text and plan dates. You think girls never call their boyfriends? You think girls never plan dates with their boyfriends? You think girls never initiate kissing or sex with their boyfriends?

 

I think we're talking about two different things here. I'm talking about behavior over the course of a relationship (at least a few weeks to a few months), while you seem to be fixated on the initial approach and the first few dates. Yes, I expect the man to be the one to approach me and ask me out on the first date. I also expect him to initiate the first kiss. After that, I have no problem initiating. In an established relationship, I initiate all the time.

 

Expecting the man to make the first move is not being passive. It's giving the man a chance to BE A MAN and do what men do. I'm not interested in dating a guy who waits for me to take him by the hand and lead the way. If that's the type of guy he is, then he should date a more dominant woman who won't mind wearing the pants in the relationship.

 

If a guy isn't even willing to approach a girl he likes and ask her out on the first date, then what is he willing to do?

[Monm82]

The whole What a ''What a real man does'' and ''What a real woman does'' thing is so old and tired.

 

Plus, most guys aren't truly confident. I think most guys prefer women to at least be way more direct than they usually are.

[Cypress25]

The whole What a ''What a real man does'' and ''What a real woman does'' thing is so old and tired.

 

I never said "real" men and "real" women. We're all real men and women. But there are certain behaviors that are expected of men and certain behaviors that are expected of women. No one has to follow traditional gender roles if they don't want to, but if you want to go against the grain, be prepared to do it by yourself. If a man wants to act like a woman, fine. But he can't expect women to follow his lead and start acting like men.

 

For example. I'm a woman but I don't like the idea of becoming a housewife. The traditional arrangement for a married couple is for the man to work and the woman to stay home and raise the kids. But that's not what I want for my life. So even if I get married, I'm not going to have kids or quit my job. I'm rejecting the gender role that says women should be stay-at-home moms. But I wouldn't expect my husband to have kids and quit his job! I'm not trying to put that gender role on him.

 

So if a man rejects the gender role that says men should pursue women, fine, he doesn't have to pursue women. But he can't expect women to pursue him. It's not fair for him to put that gender role on women, just because he doesn't want it himself.

 

That would be like me saying to my husband, "I don't want to be a stay-at-home parent, I think you should do it instead." That would be unfair to him. I don't have to do it if I don't want to, but I can't expect him to do it for me.

 

Plus, most guys aren't truly confident.

 

And women are just overflowing with confidence? Maybe some women are extremely self-assured, but that's rare. Most people struggle with confidence and insecurity to some degree, especially when it comes to flirting and dating. It's not easy for a woman to just march right up to a man and flirt with him either, but someone has to make the approach, and in a patriarchal society such as ours, it's more acceptable for the man to do it. Women have a lot to lose by taking on that role.

 

I think most guys prefer women to at least be way more direct than they usually are.

 

Yes, that would make life easier for them, wouldn't it? In fact, wouldn't it be great if everyone said exactly what they were thinking and feeling all the time, so no one would ever have to read facial expressions or interpret body language? It would be so much easier for men if a woman could just say "I like you, I'm not going to reject you, it's safe to approach me." And it would be so much easier for women if a man could just say "I'm not interested in your personality, I just want to have sex with you a few times and then break your heart." Then no one would have to guess or take any risks because everyone would be direct and honest all the time.

 

I don't see that happening though, from either side. Social interaction is full of mystery and uncertainty. Life would probably be easier if everyone was more direct, but other people don't exist just to make your life easier. If I ever meet a guy who is 100% direct with me, then I'll be 100% direct with him.

[Thieves]

Fact. I experienced this a few times this past weekend when I visited my alma mater...this is why you should go to the gym...and wear clothes that fit...apparently girls like rubbing up on reasonably fit bodies...but unfortunately I'm retarded when it comes to women and just move my arm away as to not further encroach on their space...

 

Aw. Such a gentleman. As for the OP...

 

A desperate woman is a woman who initiates as a last resort because no one else wants her and she has to do something in order to get someone.

 

An assertive woman is a woman who has options but chooses to approach someone else that she really wants.

 

The former is unattractive while the latter is attractive.

 

I agree with this. I wouldn't necessarily call myself "assertive", as I've noticed on other forums how that word can be stretched to different meanings with women, but I don't really mind asking a man out -- if I feel attracted enough to him and feel there is chemistry.

 

Also, obviously one person's idea of who initiates contact might not be the same as another person's. Say for instance that I meet a nice-looking guy at work, and he's the first one to say "Hi". I'm responsive to this gesture and we start chatting comfortably with each other for a while, and at the end of the day I ask him if he would like to hang out sometime this week. He says sure, and we make plans together.

 

So, is it the man who really initiated or made the first move in the "courtship" because he introduced himself first -- or the woman because she was the first one to ask to hang out alone outside of work? I'm curious mainly because this is usually how things go when I meet a guy I like.

 

Call me crazy, but I don't always see where asking a person out and possibly facing rejection is the "end all, be all". Rejection happens, it's going to happen to you at least once, and not just with you but with everybody. I think a lot of it is simply taking the pressure off of yourself and keeping it casual until it develops into something more. And if you want a woman to approach you, dress nicely, smile, and have a sense of humor. That works for me.

[Monm82]

I never said "real" men and "real" women. We're all real men and women. But there are certain behaviors that are expected of men and certain behaviors that are expected of women. No one has to follow traditional gender roles if they don't want to, but if you want to go against the grain, be prepared to do it by yourself. If a man wants to act like a woman, fine. But he can't expect women to follow his lead and start acting like men.

 

For example. I'm a woman but I don't like the idea of becoming a housewife. The traditional arrangement for a married couple is for the man to work and the woman to stay home and raise the kids. But that's not what I want for my life. So even if I get married, I'm not going to have kids or quit my job. I'm rejecting the gender role that says women should be stay-at-home moms. But I wouldn't expect my husband to have kids and quit his job! I'm not trying to put that gender role on him.

 

So if a man rejects the gender role that says men should pursue women, fine, he doesn't have to pursue women. But he can't expect women to pursue him. It's not fair for him to put that gender role on women, just because he doesn't want it himself.

 

That would be like me saying to my husband, "I don't want to be a stay-at-home parent, I think you should do it instead." That would be unfair to him. I don't have to do it if I don't want to, but I can't expect him to do it for me.

 

 

 

And women are just overflowing with confidence? Maybe some women are extremely self-assured, but that's rare. Most people struggle with confidence and insecurity to some degree, especially when it comes to flirting and dating. It's not easy for a woman to just march right up to a man and flirt with him either, but someone has to make the approach, and in a patriarchal society such as ours, it's more acceptable for the man to do it. Women have a lot to lose by taking on that role.

 

 

 

Yes, that would make life easier for them, wouldn't it? In fact, wouldn't it be great if everyone said exactly what they were thinking and feeling all the time, so no one would ever have to read facial expressions or interpret body language? It would be so much easier for men if a woman could just say "I like you, I'm not going to reject you, it's safe to approach me." And it would be so much easier for women if a man could just say "I'm not interested in your personality, I just want to have sex with you a few times and then break your heart." Then no one would have to guess or take any risks because everyone would be direct and honest all the time.

 

I don't see that happening though, from either side. Social interaction is full of mystery and uncertainty. Life would probably be easier if everyone was more direct, but other people don't exist just to make your life easier. If I ever meet a guy who is 100% direct with me, then I'll be 100% direct with him.

 

I guess both men and women need to stop the game playing.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Monm82

[loversquarrel]

I consider myself to be very attractive, great dresser, but what seperates me the most from other men in the bars? Honestly my smile, confidence and personality are what really attracts women. I am also very selective and I don't sleep around (I don't come off needy or like a dog). Good women somehow sense how secure in myself I am and love it.

Be normal, talk and smile. It all builds on itself, but don't limit yourself to those that would approach you. The best girl I found (my current girlfriend) was one that I approached and it wasn't at a bar, we were friends first.