bentnotbroken Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 You talk as if we have 100% free will. Scientifically, it is shown that people are easily manipulated and prone to respond to the environment. For example, this paper shows an experiment where you can get subjects to invest more by manipulating the sense of "status". http://spq.sagepub.com/content/67/1/103.short Behavior towards infidelity is no difference. ON AVERAGE, people respond to environmental factors. You forgot I am one of those "religious nuts" :rolleyes:who believes in free will. I know you live by scientific evidence...this explains our differences of opinion to a degree.
bentnotbroken Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 "There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics" - Mark Twain You can prove, or disprove most anything with numbers if you're smart enough to manipulate them correctly. Regardless, a set of numbers does not define me. My point is simply, no matter what a statistic proves, or disproves, it doesn't make that thing right, or wrong, and there's little point in throwing them around as if they mean anything important socially or morally. Numbers mean something when you use them to decide if we need more paved roads here, or more gas stations there, but they can never prove that things like cheating are right or wrong. So true....
nyrias2 Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 So true.... Not in peer review scientific journals.
nyrias2 Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 Numbers mean something when you use them to decide if we need more paved roads here, or more gas stations there, but they can never prove that things like cheating are right or wrong. But it can tell you your chance of marrying a cheater. It can tell you how many % of your neighbor is cheating if you care about that. Don't you want to know what the society you live in is made up of? Plus, if you know a 70% of people want to cheat (if they are not caught), don't you think education about the harm of cheating becomes more important? Don't you think it is useful to have more resources going to pre-marriage counseling ... or even more drastic yet, a roll-back of the marriage institution? Numbers are useful in infidelity issues, just like any other social issues.
nyrias2 Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 You forgot I am one of those "religious nuts" :rolleyes:who believes in free will. I know you live by scientific evidence...this explains our differences of opinion to a degree. Of course it is your choice to believe in something that is shown to be blatantly not true with obvious and strong evidence. BTW, do you NOT believe in the ability to manipulate behavior after reading the paper I have cited? If so, i am very curious about your psychology.
mzdolphin Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Breaking News! Study shows during economic boom men cheat because they have more money and can afford more girlfriends. ---------------------------------------- bottom line. Cheaters cheat.
bentnotbroken Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Of course it is your choice to believe in something that is shown to be blatantly not true with obvious and strong evidence. BTW, do you NOT believe in the ability to manipulate behavior after reading the paper I have cited? If so, i am very curious about your psychology. Of course it isn't true and the evidence is viewed as completely conclusive:laugh:.
bentnotbroken Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Breaking News! Study shows during economic boom men cheat because they have more money and can afford more girlfriends. ---------------------------------------- bottom line. Cheaters cheat. :lmao::bunny::bunny::lmao:
StoneCold Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) If you won't cheat.....you won't cheat. I dont think you can sum it up that simply So what of the people that swear up and down they would never do it...and then 5 years later end up doing it? and says.... "It just happened!" (how often have you heard that one)....People change bent.....and everyone has a "line"......and accept it or not your environment in many cases plays a certain role (to varying degrees). As a religious person, bent (I'm assuming you are christian?)... I'm sure you beleive that people can change and become what is popularly called a "born again Christian"...right? .....so then logically if you beleive that this can happen, then you must also beleive that one can change and go off into any other direction.... If you beleive this isnt you then fine...but to make a general statement like that.......I dont know about that one Edited October 26, 2011 by StoneCold
bentnotbroken Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 I dont think you can sum it up that simply So what of the people that swear up and down they would never do it...and then 5 years later end up doing it? and says.... "It just happened!" (how often have you heard that one)....People change bent.....and everyone has a "line"......and accept it or not your environment in many cases plays a certain role (to varying degrees). As a religious person, bent (I'm assuming you are christian?)... I'm sure you beleive that people can change and become what is popularly called a "born again Christian"...right? .....so then logically if you beleive that this can happen, then you must also beleive that one can change and go off into any other direction.... If you beleive this isnt you then fine...but to make a general statement like that.......I dont know about that one I understand your view. I was speaking for myself mainly. But I also believe there are people who won't cheat...even 5 years down the road. I also believe there are other egregious acts that I will commit if put in the right circumstances. I have weak boundaries in those areas. Anything concerning my children being in danger is all bets off. I suspect there are aspects of society that you will never participate in no matter the time frame or circumstance...why is it so hard to believe that some people actually feel that way about cheating.
StoneCold Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) I understand your view. I was speaking for myself mainly. But I also believe there are people who won't cheat...even 5 years down the road. I also believe there are other egregious acts that I will commit if put in the right circumstances. I have weak boundaries in those areas. Anything concerning my children being in danger is all bets off. I suspect there are aspects of society that you will never participate in no matter the time frame or circumstance...why is it so hard to believe that some people actually feel that way about cheating. I beleive there are people out there who will never cheat too bent. But not because they are a moral monolith of integrity....but because their line will simply not get tested by the right (or "wrong", depending on how you look at it) set of circumstances....for whatever reason. They can beleive what they want; and yes some or more or less likely than others....however, until they are on their death bed they cant make an absolute statement about that because you never know what tomorrow holds for you....and odder things have happened. Edited October 26, 2011 by StoneCold
bentnotbroken Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 I beleive there are people out there who will never cheat too bent. But not because they are a moral monolith of integrity....but because their line will simply not get tested by the right (or "wrong", depending on how you look at it) set of circumstances....for whatever reason. They can beleive what they want; and yes some or more or less likely than others....however, until they are on their death bed they cant make an absolute statement about that because you never know what tomorrow holds for you....and odder things have happened. True. Do you think that people who haven't cheated haven't been tempted, in the right circumstance or tested by situations?
2long Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 You talk as if we have 100% free will. Scientifically, it is shown that people are easily manipulated and prone to respond to the environment. For example, this paper shows an experiment where you can get subjects to invest more by manipulating the sense of "status". Behavior towards infidelity is no difference. ON AVERAGE, people respond to environmental factors. Okay... On average, what do *you* do? Allow yourself 2 be manipulated? Or make your own choices? -ol' 2long
StoneCold Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) True. Do you think that people who haven't cheated haven't been tempted, in the right circumstance or tested by situations? Yes....the "right circumstance" being the key. What circumstance is that? I dont know. Even many subjects wouldnt know until after the fact....and for those who know their weakness and run the other way to avoid it...well..... its reasonable to accept that its likely that you could lose the race one day right? I mean the tortois did beat the hare in that race didnt he? "slow and steady wins the race" isnt the only lesson to be had from that age old story....sometimes you just dont see it coming and even a hare could lose a race to a tortois now how likely is that "right circumstance"? I dont know this either.....Perhaps for a person who has strong feelings about it like you do, that "right circumstance" may be so erroneous it is highly unlikey..... but highly unlikely doesnt mean never.....and as I said.....odder things have happened Edited October 26, 2011 by StoneCold
bentnotbroken Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Yes....the "right circumstance" being the key. What circumstance is that? I dont know. Even many subjects wouldnt know until after the fact....and for those who know their weakness and run the other way to avoid it...well..... its reasonable to accept that its likely that you could lose the race one day right? I mean the tortois did beat the hare in that race didnt he? "slow and steady wins the race" isnt the only lesson to be had from that age old story....sometimes you just dont see it coming and even a hare could lose a race to a tortois now how likely is that "right circumstance"? I dont know this either.....Perhaps for a person who has strong feelings about it like you do, that "right circumstance" may be so erroneous it is highly unlikey..... but highly unlikely doesnt mean never.....and as I said.....odder things have happened Thanks for the clarification. I not only feel strongly, I truly fear the consequences of cheating. I am human, the thought, the opportunity and the natural urges are still present and in working order. But there are places that I know I will run from as if my azz where on fire and the nearest water source was a mile away. And there are other places I won't be so quick to get the heck out of dodge even though I know it will only bring me trouble and grief(a whole other story:o). I have seen the worst side of affairs. One person lost her unborn baby due to a cheating spouse. A man killed his wife and her lover in our area a couple of years ago. A family member is HIV positive because his wife cheated while he was in the military. And then what happened in my own situation and watching my kids (long lasting OW issues) and going to brink myself. No thanks. I appreciate your answers SC.
frozensprouts Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 people who will cheat will cheat, any will use whatever excuse they feel justifies their actions. This does not mean "once a cheat, always a cheat", as some people will have an affair, see it as a huge mistake that they never want to repeat and will take the steps necessary to prevent it happening again. Myself, i have to inclination what so ever to cheat. I think that it's hurtful both to the betrayed spouse and the person cheating. It makes life complicated...my life is complicated enough...why the hell would i want add to it? I think I'm also too honest... I hate lying, and would be miserable knowing i was lying to my spouse I wouldn't want to inject the drama that would surely ensue into my kids lives. why do that? if I don't like my marriage and i want something more, i am fully free to get up off my butt and ask for a separation/divorce. I am a "big girl' and can be on my own. there are a whole lot of reasons, but the most important is that i love my husband and i love myself and cheating would be very hurtful to both of us. why hurt he ones you love for a few minutes of gratification?
nyrias2 Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 True. Do you think that people who haven't cheated haven't been tempted, in the right circumstance or tested by situations? The answer is likely to be all of the above. The cheating rate is high, but not 100%. Given the law of large number, it is likely that there are some incidents in each category. It is a well known fact that people are heterogeneous in different dimensions. While i have not seen research on this dimension, intuition says that people are also heterogeneous in response to temptation.
nyrias2 Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 why hurt he ones you love for a few minutes of gratification? Is that a rhetorical question? The answer is many and obvious: 1) There is no love 2) for particular people, a few min of gratification outweigh other consequences not unlike gamblers or drug addicts. 3) There is a good chance (roughly 60% by literature posted in other threads) that the cheater will not be caught. 4) exit affair -> thus do not care if found out, and actually the consequence (a divorce) may be desirable. 5) seek revenge? And in particular, do not underestimate the power of a few min of gratification. People are myopic.
StoneCold Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Is that a rhetorical question? The answer is many and obvious: 1) There is no love 2) for particular people, a few min of gratification outweigh other consequences not unlike gamblers or drug addicts. 3) There is a good chance (roughly 60% by literature posted in other threads) that the cheater will not be caught. 4) exit affair -> thus do not care if found out, and actually the consequence (a divorce) may be desirable. 5) seek revenge? And in particular, do not underestimate the power of a few min of gratification. People are myopic. Agreed....
Elizabeth Southerns Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 True. People can't afford to divorce and support two households. So, hey - a guy might as well cheat if he knows that his wife can't afford to leave. Alternatively, he can't afford to D his W and remarry, so he keeps his new lover on as his GF.
frozensprouts Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Is that a rhetorical question? The answer is many and obvious: 1) There is no love 2) for particular people, a few min of gratification outweigh other consequences not unlike gamblers or drug addicts. 3) There is a good chance (roughly 60% by literature posted in other threads) that the cheater will not be caught. 4) exit affair -> thus do not care if found out, and actually the consequence (a divorce) may be desirable. 5) seek revenge? And in particular, do not underestimate the power of a few min of gratification. People are myopic. when i first glanced at your response,i wasn't fully attentive and at first I thought it said "never underestimate the power of a few GIN" ( would that count as reason number 6 for risking your marriage for a few minutes of instant gratification?:laugh::laugh:)
michelangelo Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 Someone mentioned peer-reviewed journals as a way to guarantee that a certain result is worth believing as true. So, are there particles that travel faster than the speed of light or not? There are peer-reviewed journals that argue for and against that idea. And that's for something not involving human behavior. I'm thinking that it will take a lot more than an article in Psychology Today to convince me of something regarding infidelity.
nofool4u Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 Thanks for the clarification. I not only feel strongly, I truly fear the consequences of cheating. I am human, the thought, the opportunity and the natural urges are still present and in working order. But there are places that I know I will run from as if my azz where on fire and the nearest water source was a mile away. And there are other places I won't be so quick to get the heck out of dodge even though I know it will only bring me trouble and grief(a whole other story:o). bent, there are simply people out there who don't want to believe that there are people, unlike them, who don't have a cheating bone in their body. and just because they have it in their character to cheat, they want to believe that everyone else does too. and if they think it has to do with opportunity, as if those that don't cheat aren't attractive or something, they are wrong. I've never cheated, never will. And yes, on business I have had many temptations over the years. Temptation in the sense that I was shown interest, but I had no interest in return because I was married. And it didn't matter how attractive a woman was. Flattering it was, but I was committed and, at the time, loved my wife and know what commitment is. so there are some that can say they will never cheat, and it will be a true and accurate statement. now I think it may be fair to say that the people that can say they won't cheat and mean it are few and far between. we are simply a small bunch.
HappyAtLast Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 But there are places that I know I will run from as if my azz where on fire and the nearest water source was a mile away. ). . That statement right there is the key to a marriage unscathed by infidelity. Avoid those types of situations and avoid the temptation. A very good way to live, in my very humble opinion.
nyrias2 Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 Someone mentioned peer-reviewed journals as a way to guarantee that a certain result is worth believing as true. So, are there particles that travel faster than the speed of light or not? There are peer-reviewed journals that argue for and against that idea. And that's for something not involving human behavior. I'm thinking that it will take a lot more than an article in Psychology Today to convince me of something regarding infidelity. Nothing is guaranteed to be true .. but have more credibility than random OPINIONS on the internet. I actually read that paper about neutrinos traveling faster than light. At least they write down carefully what they did so others can check. (And many are checking right now, i am sure). If a point can be duplicated 100 times in experiments, i will believe it a lot more than what many here says with ZERO or only anecdotal evidence.
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