Author Woggle Posted October 22, 2011 Author Posted October 22, 2011 I do have fond memories of my time with my ex early on but I can't find a single positive thing about her later on. Those last moments were pure hell. I didn't say that all women are misandrists but there are a lot of manhaters out there and I do hold off on trusting women until they prove they aren't one. I have helped women move stuff and did them favors only for them to make a misandrist comment afterwards and I felt completely used. I wish I didn't have to be on a constant guard but I do.
alphamale Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 When most men see that a woman truly understands us or is at least interested in truly it is very much a turn on. indeed woggle, a woman that doesn't nag and lets us watch football is the best. Also, she should be able to cook well and sew and be nurturing. The ability to swallow a load of semen and participate in anal sex is the ULTIMATE in understand how men tick.
xxoo Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 Now a question....how am I to know if someone cares if they don't express it? How am I to read their mind. Your know your husband, love your husband and he evidently shows that he cares. One possible clue is remembering details and acting on them, even if not apparently actively showing care. Perhaps he does that. I look for that too. It's part of the analysis process. He does that very well! Also, once I decide to act, he backs me 100%. He always takes my side, even when I'm wrong . He prioritizes me highly (time and money). His care is evident. I just had to learn to read him. What I'm beginning to notice here is something that is common with women, in that they are adept with putting things back onto the man and not taking responsibility. Why not listen, take it in and accept it as a possibility, instead of turning it around? That will be my final word on the matter. Food for thought.. That's a two-way street. I notice that behavior in both men and women here. In our marriage, it literally is a two-way street. Meaning, we do both. I listen and take in his pov, while also asking him to listen and take in mine. I want to hear AND be heard. One without the other is no good. When both points of view are heard, better solutions are discovered. xxoo, what you describe is common among many (not all) men. When a man sees and hears his partner talking about problems, he doesn't like to see his partner under such stress and his natural tendency is to try and "fix" the situation. To him, it's like a fire alarm going off. In his mind there is a fire and he has to take action to fix the problem immediately. When there is a fire, the last thing one does is sit around listening to someone talk about feelings. It may be obvious to women (and some men) that at that moment all she wants is her partner to just sit, listen and show some compassion for her feelings, but to an inexperienced man, it is a foreign concept. Once a guy has put forth a solution and he sees the situation has not been "fixed", he will try another solution, and another, but by the time he's tried 3 solutions, and nothing seems to be working in his mind, he will become very stressed and painful to just sit there and keep listening. Eventually he thinks he may be the problem and in big trouble, especially if she gets upset at him for not listening and understanding her feelings. In such a situation, men can understand women better by realizing that she doesn't need anything "fixed". The best thing he can do to put out the "fire" is to just listen and show compassion and understanding of her feelings. Women can understand men better if the women were to simply say at the start of this type of conversation, "honey, you don't need to fix anything. You did nothing wrong. All you need to do is listen to me for a while. That's the best thing you can do." Yes, all of this sounds like him. I do approach it as you suggest, but he still has his limitations. It's ok. I know it isn't personal. It became more evident that this is how he ticks when we became parents. Even our kids know that mom is the person to go to if you need to talk, and dad is the person to go to if you need action. Balance is good! Still, I'm surprised that men are finding women are, as a group, not good at this. I thought this was a stereotyped "female" trait.
thatone Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 I've worked around men for over 20 years.... I think their 'natural' tendency is to go to women (any woman who is nearby and receptive) when they want to talk about something that doesn't involve sports stats or politics. In fact, it has been argued that men actually suffer more emotionally after a break-up than women do because women have a bigger social safety net than alot of men. Men rely almost exclusively on the woman (or women) in their lives for emotional support... not other men. As they get older, I do see them forming closer male friendships. I'm thinking this is also a United States thing. Men in some other countries are alot more comfortable sharing their feelings and even showing affection towards their male friends than they do here in the US. ... still looking for that prime job overseas... *sigh*. i would say that's accurate. i don't talk to male friends about my relationships. brother and father to a limited extent, that's it. i have an aunt i'm close to that i talk about such things with in more detail.
Alexz Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 Mutual understandings between two people generally develop the strongest kind of bonds.
ThsAmericanLife Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 I do find the direction of this thread interesting. I too have always thought that women tended to be more "compassionate" and "understanding" than men. Even if the women were't naturally so inclined, most of us learned that those qualities are valued in women so tried to cultivate them. I have known more than a couple of women and girls who actually used their ability to "understand men" as a manipulative tool, too. Anyway, I have a lot of female friends who are actually very understanding and compassionate people towards other humans. Personally, even though I post "tough," I struggle with a tendency to over-empathize. I've had trouble with emotional boundaries around feeling and taking on other peoples stuff. I've cultivated boundaries, and a knack for really understanding a lot of what people go through without having to go there with them, myself, now. I suspect that some people who post 'tough' are actually much more compassionate in their words and actions in real life... and some who post 'nice' are not as nice in real life. Just more charming If we (as in collective 'we', not me and you we) post long enough, I sense most people can detect the caring through the words... despite the bluntness of them.
ThsAmericanLife Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 indeed woggle, a woman that doesn't nag and lets us watch football is the best. Also, she should be able to cook well and sew and be nurturing. The ability to swallow a load of semen and participate in anal sex is the ULTIMATE in understand how men tick. Well, that would make me your perfect woman, except I occasionally feel the need to speak... and do I have all of my teeth... so probably not a match. so sad.
thatone Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 I agree so wholeheartedly I cannot even express … I have been through a lot. I have been truly victimized, starting in early childhood, and also, I put myself in the victim role at some times. I think I understand why, now. I also wreaked havoc in my own life. What gave me the chance to see another way to live was cultivating gratitude. I've mentioned before that I met my husband on Match.com. He'd been "trying" there for several years; I had for a much shorter period. What we both experienced was a preponderance of people (due to our ages, almost all had been divorced at least once) who were living in a state of bitterness and blame about their ex, the wreckage of their marriage, etc. That made both he and I IMMEDIATELY "next" those people. It was not due to a lack of compassion on either of our parts. Believe me, he and I both could have been just as bitter and negative if we'd chosen that for ourselves. we have that in common. i've posted this before but i've been the child of parents whose careers were more important, whose social lives were more important, etc. so i learned their behaviors. i grew up to think that i was always better than my friends, better than the women i met, better than the boss at work, etc. being dismissive of others was the right way to be in my mind, that's the environment i grew up in. it's hard to get over that stuff. took me til damn near 30 to figure it all out. but yes it is liberating to be able to look people in the eye and say "yeah i went through this and i went through that, but that's ok, i don't hold any grudges against those people and i'll be fine." and that translates to relationships. the gf i recently broke up with was semi long-distance, i spent time there due to owning a business in the city she was from, and that city being one known for expensive entertainment and expensive restaurants and bars, we went through an awful lot of time and money in that few months. 10 years ago i would've been bitter about that, hating everything with a pair of boobs for months/years after the fact because someone managed to waste my time and money. but now, it doesn't matter. i don't get bitter, i don't get mad, i get over it and try again. i know who i am. (besides, taking out bitterness at random strangers is what LS is for, until you talk to people away from the site and then they even ruin that for you )
zengirl Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 I've worked around men for over 20 years.... I think their 'natural' tendency is to go to women (any woman who is nearby and receptive) when they want to talk about something that doesn't involve sports stats or politics. In fact, it has been argued that men actually suffer more emotionally after a break-up than women do because women have a bigger social safety net than alot of men. Men rely almost exclusively on the woman (or women) in their lives for emotional support... not other men. As you said, this changes with age and geography, but I'd say it's also a generational thing. The men in my generation, at least the ones I've dated or befriended, generally DO have male friends they can lean on. While many of my male friends will speak to me during their tough times, they don't "not speak" to their male friends about it---it all depends on the closeness of the people involved. Many would speak to male friends first, before I'd ever find out about their troubles, and some other ones who are closer to me, on a personal level, would not. In addition, in observing the even younger generations, I find gender is becoming less of a determiner in this in each new generation, personally, which makes sense since --- while we still aren't doing it perfectly evenly --- we are allowing boys to show more emotion and be socialized in a less "stiff upper lip" way with each generation. The idea that men can be emotional beings and still be cool, sexy, lovely, fantastic men who don't lose one drop of their masculinity is at least out there now, if not as fully formed as it should (and will) be. We're seeing progress. Unfortunately, we're also seeing compassion and empathy being devalued in ALL genders at the moment, but that's another trend entirely. In terms of women having compassion or empathy for men. . . I see tons of it out there. However, as those traits ARE desired, you're going to see those women snapped up, especially if they're also attractive in other ways. I will say that today, it is more expected that men listen to women, in an emotional way, than that women listen to men (different unfair things are expected of women, however; neither gender has cornered the market on being socialized unevenly); this is because it's more considered a "need" for women to be listened to, just as it's more considered a "need" for men to have a decent sex life. Really, we ALL probably need both of those things, to different degrees in different individuals, but there are gender ideas out there, clouding it up. And there are so many other examples like those, for both genders. I love that carhill brought up compassion, though. One of my favorite quotes and one I'm always putting everywhere (including on my dating profile!) is this: "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." --Dalai Lama It is so very, very true, IME. But maybe that's just my individual experience.
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