A Duck's Dilemma.

[aj22one]

these people aren't christians, they're just evil and selfish.

 

sounds like you need to make political views a deal breaker. i have, for the above reasons.

 

That's a little bit of an extreme position to take, "evil and selfish"?

 

Ah, any way, I agree with the overall point: politics can be a deal breaker if one or the other individual feels very strongly.

 

In the past I've dated women who disagreed with me politically. I tolerated their views, but it was they who had the issue with mine (I have been called "evil and selfish" haha). Oh well.

[FitChick]

Nice to hear my intuition was on track. Politics is a red herring and won't make or break a relationship. How you treat each other on a daily basis is more important. Because he hasn't been in a relationship, he doesn't know what is acceptable behavior. How will he ever learn?

 

I think there are so many men (and women) out there who have been dumped and have never been told why. If five women told a man that they were dumping him because he never put the toilet seat down, don't you think that the next time he'd put the toilet seat down so he could keep his girlfriend?

 

If you get rid of this guy, he'll be a better person for the next girlfriend because you'll have trained him. And so on with the next and the next. That is why people generally become better with each successive relationship, if they are intelligent. Relationships are about learning lessons.

 

Since you belong to the same church, you can go for pastoral counseling.

Edited March 21, 2012 by FitChick

[Duckduckgoose]

That's a little bit of an extreme position to take, "evil and selfish"?

 

Ah, any way, I agree with the overall point: politics can be a deal breaker if one or the other individual feels very strongly.

 

In the past I've dated women who disagreed with me politically. I tolerated their views, but it was they who had the issue with mine (I have been called "evil and selfish" haha). Oh well.

 

 

I wouldn't call him evil or selfish, or anyone who disagrees with me for that matter. I take issue with extremely liberal or extremely conservative types, but truth is that most people are moderate about things.

[Duckduckgoose]

Nice to hear my intuition was on track. Politics is a red herring and won't make or break a relationship. How you treat each other on a daily basis is more important. Because he hasn't been in a relationship, he doesn't know what is acceptable behavior. How will he ever learn?

 

I think there are so many men (and women) out there who have been dumped and have never been told why. If five women told a man that they were dumping him because he never put the toilet seat down, don't you think that the next time he'd put the toilet seat down so he could keep his girlfriend?

 

If you get rid of this guy, he'll be a better person for the next girlfriend because you'll have trained him. And so on with the next and the next. That is why people generally become better with each successive relationship, if they are intelligent. Relationships are about learning lessons.

 

Since you belong to the same church, you can go for pastoral counseling.

 

 

He will hopefully learn when I show him what I like. I talked with him last night about the selfishness. I explained that I think he puts himself as first priority because he's used to being the only person in his life to really be concerned about. I used a lot of examples of how I consider him in my decisions, and times I don't but let him know about it.

 

Counselling will be a good idea and mandatory if we get to the point of considering marriage. I also had to reiterate "If you want something or need something, let me know". I feel like a broken record, like I'm being too critical. He's sweet acting, and considerate once he figures out what I want (it doesn't always happen when I tell him it's like he needs to process it on a different level).

 

I have to tell myself he has that engineer brain... he's not an aspie or autistic, but engineers seem to think on a different plane than non-engineers.

 

I try to boost him and show him what he does right more than I point out issues. Its difficult... I might start writing things down to compliment him on.

 

Dang there are days I think I deserve a medal for all this

[Emilia]

Would you want your future kids to have a father like him though? Someone so devoid of warmth and empathy and who is so much work? Does he deserve to have kids?

[Ursa]

Duck, my husband is an engineer, and has the engineer brain. And yes, it's a bit of a different breed, and yes, sometimes it can be difficult for us to align our ways of thinking and come to a place of understanding...but in seven years it's never been as difficult as what you are describing, in what seems to still be the early days of your relationship, when things should be much smoother. The difference is, perhaps, that my husband has empathy. Also, he puts in work on the relationship, himself...it is not only me struggling with a brick wall, he is coming at us from his own angle and making his own committed efforts.

 

I believe in working on issues rather than crumpling up a good relationship and tossing it by the wayside...however I have to agree with the poster who suggested you are having trouble recognizing basic incompatibility here.

 

For whatever it's worth, if I genuinely felt like a man I was dating disrespected women, disdained the struggles of the poor, and lacked empathy in general, that would be a clear dealbreaker for me.

[Duckduckgoose]

Would you want your future kids to have a father like him though? Someone so devoid of warmth and empathy and who is so much work? Does he deserve to have kids?

 

I've watched how he acts around his niece and nephew, and his cousins' kids. He is a bit hands-off about them, but he is nice to them. I also watch how he treats animals and specifically my birds. He is kind to animals, and kind to my birds... he gives them treats and takes his time to pet all of them. One of the birds really likes him, and while he's at my place, that bird will spend the whole time on him, getting scratched on her head. That same bird doesn't even like me very much lol.

 

Maybe his type of empathy is expressed differently than what I'm used to? My exH wore his heart on his sleeve... wasn't hard to tell what he was feeling it would follow him around everywhere

 

I am thinking of asking his mom about how he expresses himself. His family likes me a lot, they are very open, friendly, and caring. His mellowness comes more from his father. His other siblings took more after their mom, she is lively.

[Duckduckgoose]

For whatever it's worth, if I genuinely felt like a man I was dating disrespected women, disdained the struggles of the poor, and lacked empathy in general, that would be a clear dealbreaker for me.

 

I agree 100%. I'm going to get to the root of this matter, and if he is indeed disrespectful towards women, disdains the poor, and has no empathy I will call things off with him.

 

I texted him today about his thoughts on one of the matters. He will probably type the reply up tonight. Part of the post where I was venting about these matters was my paranoia. What I have gotten from him on these issues was him being defensive in some ways because I would start in on my opinion and when he would give his, I would interrupt... which would cause him to get defensive.

 

This is the same pattern of behaviour I had with my exH... I would interrupt, interject my comments, and cause him to get defensive. Its something I need to break. And it starts now.

 

So I am going to ask him about these things (the empathy thing I will ask his mom about probably), and get his viewpoint uninterrupted. If he is as bad as my paranoid rantings made him out to be, he will get the door. However, when I let him speak I find out that he's pretty sensible even where we do differ.

 

I've watched how he treats women in public, or in places where he has nothing to lose from treating them poorly (ie waitresses at restaurants)... he tips well, is polite, and holds doors. Even when things are wrong, he is polite about returning the food, or asking for something else. He voted for some women in political positions... whereas if he thought all women belonged locked away why would he vote to put a woman in charge, of all things?

 

I'm trying to puzzle this out, and overthinking things in the meantime. I plan to ask him about women in person. That's a conversation I want face to face.

 

It seems that typing this is drawing out the issues with myself, as well as the issues with him. Free therapy.

[Duckduckgoose]

So he texted the answers to my questions about the poor... and it's actually pretty similar to how I feel about the situation.

 

Wow... I think I overreacted. He even went so far as to say that pandering to the rich voters or poor voters is an overreach of government because they are basically "buying" votes and he's against that. Nice.

 

You know, I guess I should have asked his views on the subject instead of assuming he held certain views because he was in favor of a certain political party.

 

I think by shutting him down by not listening and jumping to my own conclusions I did myself a disservice.

 

Oh well. We shall see. Oddly enough, my mom called and she happened to mention the whole "women's rights" thing. I dunno if she's reading this or what (Hi mom?). She said that her and my dad got into a BIG row early on in their marriage because he wanted her to quit work and let him be the breadwinner, nevermind that he met her while she was working at a bank, and she'd been working to support herself since she COULD work. Both of my parents are conservative.

 

My mom works because she wants to, and she enjoys it. She doesn't have to, but my dad respects that she wants to work, and encourages her in it.

 

I guess I will find out my boyfriends' real views on married women working and all in a few days. I'm still pretty scared about this one...

[FitChick]

You know, I guess I should have asked his views on the subject instead of assuming he held certain views because he was in favor of a certain political party.

 

Sadly, most people are like that.

[spiderowl]

Sounds like he has Asperger's to me too, and I know a bit about it as both my kids have it. My son would be exactly like him, waiting for cues, not sure what to do, and not able to empathise about how it makes you feel.

 

The good thing is that my son is a kindly, gentle character and if he cared for someone would go to the ends of the earth for her. She'd have to tell him what she needed though or he wouldn't have a clue. He just hasn't picked up the normal social cues that other kids do naturally. I can imagine it's frustrating for you and one wants a guy to take the initiative and know what to do. As I said, my son would be loyal and loving with the right woman who knew how to prompt him. I only hope one will give him the chance.

Edited March 23, 2012 by spiderowl

[Duckduckgoose]

I listened to a lot of Asperger's stuff online today at work. A lot of the aspie stuff is ringing a bell with how my boyfriend acts.

 

I've asked him twice about it though, and the second time he got pretty defensive about it. I texted his mom about it today, she hasn't gotten back to me yet. I'm not asking to be nosy or pry... I'm asking because I care. And also as his girlfriend I feel like I have the right to know.

[Jeremy87]

I listened to a lot of Asperger's stuff online today at work. A lot of the aspie stuff is ringing a bell with how my boyfriend acts.

 

I've asked him twice about it though, and the second time he got pretty defensive about it. I texted his mom about it today, she hasn't gotten back to me yet. I'm not asking to be nosy or pry... I'm asking because I care. And also as his girlfriend I feel like I have the right to know.

 

You are nosy and prying. LOL

[FitChick]

I listened to a lot of Asperger's stuff online today at work. A lot of the aspie stuff is ringing a bell with how my boyfriend acts.

 

I've asked him twice about it though, and the second time he got pretty defensive about it. I texted his mom about it today, she hasn't gotten back to me yet. I'm not asking to be nosy or pry... I'm asking because I care. And also as his girlfriend I feel like I have the right to know.

 

Perhaps her son was made fun of and bullied when he was younger and his mother is afraid to confirm your "diagnosis" for fear you will dump him. He is "defective" in the eyes of many people so of course they both would be defensive. You need to reassure her that a confirmation would actually make your interaction with him easier since you would know how to deal with him and be less surprised by things he does or doesn't do.

[Duckduckgoose]

Perhaps her son was made fun of and bullied when he was younger and his mother is afraid to confirm your "diagnosis" for fear you will dump him. He is "defective" in the eyes of many people so of course they both would be defensive. You need to reassure her that a confirmation would actually make your interaction with him easier since you would know how to deal with him and be less surprised by things he does or doesn't do.

 

Well I read up on it more, and by the way that so many people are having issues with it, I'm not real sure it would be wise to continue a relationship if he is an Aspie.

 

What would make my interactions easier would be if he admitted he had it, and would progress to help us both build bridges. In ways he acts like an Aspie, in ways he doesn't... so I'm confused. The lack of eye contact, the seeming lack of empathy... not taking compliments well or giving any of his own. If I tell him these things I'm sure he will start doing them... he's been really good about doing what I tell him, but I don't like having to "tell" him everything. I'm not a horrible controlling person.

 

Maybe I've read too many horror stories of it on the internet... maybe I'm getting paranoid again, always assuming the worst.

[FitChick]

I'm sure there are different degrees of Asperger's. You should just go by your interactions with him and not what anyone else says. If you dump him I predict he will find another girlfriend and be a much better boyfriend than he would have been had he not met you because he will know what is expected of him.

 

Plenty of women wish they had a man who was so "trainable."

[Jeremy87]

Well I read up on it more, and by the way that so many people are having issues with it, I'm not real sure it would be wise to continue a relationship if he is an Aspie.

 

What would make my interactions easier would be if he admitted he had it, and would progress to help us both build bridges. In ways he acts like an Aspie, in ways he doesn't... so I'm confused. The lack of eye contact, the seeming lack of empathy... not taking compliments well or giving any of his own. If I tell him these things I'm sure he will start doing them... he's been really good about doing what I tell him, but I don't like having to "tell" him everything. I'm not a horrible controlling person.

 

Maybe I've read too many horror stories of it on the internet... maybe I'm getting paranoid again, always assuming the worst.

 

women don't want to date aspies. why the **** would he admit to it? aspies suck at sex too so you should ditch him and date a real man

[FredRutherford]

 

Originally Posted by thatone

these people aren't christians, they're just evil and selfish.

 

sounds like you need to make political views a deal breaker. i have, for the above reasons.

 

 

That's a little bit of an extreme position to take, "evil and selfish"?

 

 

 

This.

 

The poster her makes it a point to dredge up his bitter childhood experience with religion and use it to slur anyone who even remotely expresses a religious viewpoint.

[Duckduckgoose]

I discussed some of the things that were bothering me with him over the past couple weeks. His mom never got back to me on the Asperger's thing. I did some things that an Aspie might have trouble with, based on what I had been reading and listening to on Youtube, and he seemed to do fine... like making him think abstractly during conversation and see how he reacted.

 

I've also been giving him extra compliments and being very sweet. At a couple points he said, you're being very sweet. I was like "OMG FINALLY YOU'RE REALIZING!" I mentioned that I like to give compliments and be sweet, but I also like the same in return, and that he had never really given me a compliment. He remembered it for a few days but kind of stopped again

 

When I pointed out that he doesn't like to do things I ask of him his answer was an odd "You can't make anyone do anything but you can make them WANT to do something". I responded that I refuse to make anyone do anything but I will ask. If they don't do what I ask I keep that in mind for future reference. That was aggrivating, like he thinks it's some kind of game?

 

I asked him again about women, and he only answered a couple of my questions. His answer was pretty much, "How do your parents handle it?" Either he didn't have a very strong opinion on it, or he was just not in the mood to answer me. I DID ask him about the cheating thing and women in the workplace and the answers I got were conflicting. Part of it was that 'there are a lot of other factors involved but if a woman is in the workplace the temptation is there'.

 

Which I still find insulting since I hold to the notion that someone with the heart to cheat will cheat no matter the circumstances and someone who will not cheat will not change their mind even in the most tempting of circumstances.

 

I asked him if women should stay at home all day, and he said that if a man can pay all the bills a woman should not be obligated to work and that if she does it puts more stress on both of them, and a balance can be achieved but at a sacrifice to some things. I asked him if he thinks women are happier at home all day, and if he thinks a man's only duty is to bring home a paycheck...I didn't get answers to those. I also asked if he thinks that if a woman should stay at home should they bother getting a college education or should they just marry up early and live off a sugar daddy?

 

His response to that was vague 'if you don't have kids it's a different story'.

 

Sometimes also, I wonder if he gives me the answers I want to hear instead of that answers that I NEED to hear to make clear decisions. Maybe this is just his relationship lack of experience showing?

[somedude81]

Why are you still trying to test him?

[FitChick]

Why are you still trying to test him?

 

This is just one example of why you should never get involved with someone newly divorced. Wait two years at least. Oh, the divorcees will all protest of course, but I have personally experienced similar scenarios and so have many others with these people. They are not ready to have a serious relationship. They will always look for ways in which you are similar to their ex or not instead of looking at who you are as a unique individual.

 

To the OP, why don't you just date other separated and newly divorced men and avoid causing an innocent man heartache by dissecting everything he says and does, trying to "catch him out" and trip him up? He deserves better.

[somedude81]

This is just one example of why you should never get involved with someone newly divorced. Wait two years at least. Oh, the divorcees will all protest of course, but I have personally experienced similar scenarios and so have many others with these people. They are not ready to have a serious relationship. They will always look for ways in which you are similar to their ex or not instead of looking at who you are as a unique individual.

This is one reason why I keep coming to the forum.

 

I never know when I'm going to get a piece of solid advice and then it just happens.

[Duckduckgoose]

This is just one example of why you should never get involved with someone newly divorced. Wait two years at least. Oh, the divorcees will all protest of course, but I have personally experienced similar scenarios and so have many others with these people. They are not ready to have a serious relationship. They will always look for ways in which you are similar to their ex or not instead of looking at who you are as a unique individual.

 

To the OP, why don't you just date other separated and newly divorced men and avoid causing an innocent man heartache by dissecting everything he says and does, trying to "catch him out" and trip him up? He deserves better.

 

 

One thing I am not doing much of is comparing him to my exH. My counsellor helped me with that. She showed me that instead of comparing men to your ex, make a list of what you like in a man and don't like, and compare the men you date with the list. Also discuss things with your friends and parents (who can give you a good perspective)

 

On my own, I made a list of my exH's good and bad traits, but that was just for mental clarity. I put that list away a long time ago.... like a year ago at least.

 

TBH there are things my exH did that my boyfriend does not do and vice versa. I realize that is because they are different people, and do not act too much alike. I was warned to avoid men too much like my exH... that felt too "familiar" because I would get into the same type of rut that I did with my exH.

 

Maybe it was too early for me to start dating. I know I have some issues. I'm not gonna lie about that or try to cover up. By posting here it helps me work out some of my issues, or figure out what fall under the realm of 'his' issues.

 

The dissection, or trying to "trip him up" is possibly paranoia... like trying to find out what he's about so I don't get hurt again. I've found myself doing it before in past relationships... it's probably worse now that I AM divorced though...

 

...or it could be me just trying to understand him a little better. I like to figure out what he likes or what makes him tick so I can make him happy. He's not terribly open about some things, so I have to keep asking.

 

Maybe he does deserve someone better than me. I find myself thinking "Oh he never this he never that" and I catch myself in the act and then remind myself of when he does do such things. I keep telling myself I can't think in absolutes like that... it's not fair to him or me. Its rough.

[prune juice]

I discussed some of the things that were bothering me with him over the past couple weeks. His mom never got back to me on the Asperger's thing. I did some things that an Aspie might have trouble with, based on what I had been reading and listening to on Youtube, and he seemed to do fine... like making him think abstractly during conversation and see how he reacted.

 

I've also been giving him extra compliments and being very sweet. At a couple points he said, you're being very sweet. I was like "OMG FINALLY YOU'RE REALIZING!" I mentioned that I like to give compliments and be sweet, but I also like the same in return, and that he had never really given me a compliment. He remembered it for a few days but kind of stopped again

 

When I pointed out that he doesn't like to do things I ask of him his answer was an odd "You can't make anyone do anything but you can make them WANT to do something". I responded that I refuse to make anyone do anything but I will ask. If they don't do what I ask I keep that in mind for future reference. That was aggrivating, like he thinks it's some kind of game?

 

I asked him again about women, and he only answered a couple of my questions. His answer was pretty much, "How do your parents handle it?" Either he didn't have a very strong opinion on it, or he was just not in the mood to answer me. I DID ask him about the cheating thing and women in the workplace and the answers I got were conflicting. Part of it was that 'there are a lot of other factors involved but if a woman is in the workplace the temptation is there'.

 

Which I still find insulting since I hold to the notion that someone with the heart to cheat will cheat no matter the circumstances and someone who will not cheat will not change their mind even in the most tempting of circumstances.

 

I asked him if women should stay at home all day, and he said that if a man can pay all the bills a woman should not be obligated to work and that if she does it puts more stress on both of them, and a balance can be achieved but at a sacrifice to some things. I asked him if he thinks women are happier at home all day, and if he thinks a man's only duty is to bring home a paycheck...I didn't get answers to those. I also asked if he thinks that if a woman should stay at home should they bother getting a college education or should they just marry up early and live off a sugar daddy?

 

His response to that was vague 'if you don't have kids it's a different story'.

 

Sometimes also, I wonder if he gives me the answers I want to hear instead of that answers that I NEED to hear to make clear decisions. Maybe this is just his relationship lack of experience showing?

 

mistake on asking him and his mom if he is an aspie. i know a few and none like the word aspie brought up. drop it. it's like if a man asks a woman if shes fat. its a loaded question. you're asking too many tough questions. men don't like tough questions. he may be annoyed. i'd be. it may or may not work out, but don't sabotage it.

[prune juice]

One thing I am not doing much of is comparing him to my exH. My counsellor helped me with that. She showed me that instead of comparing men to your ex, make a list of what you like in a man and don't like, and compare the men you date with the list. Also discuss things with your friends and parents (who can give you a good perspective)

 

On my own, I made a list of my exH's good and bad traits, but that was just for mental clarity. I put that list away a long time ago.... like a year ago at least.

 

TBH there are things my exH did that my boyfriend does not do and vice versa. I realize that is because they are different people, and do not act too much alike. I was warned to avoid men too much like my exH... that felt too "familiar" because I would get into the same type of rut that I did with my exH.

 

Maybe it was too early for me to start dating. I know I have some issues. I'm not gonna lie about that or try to cover up. By posting here it helps me work out some of my issues, or figure out what fall under the realm of 'his' issues.

 

The dissection, or trying to "trip him up" is possibly paranoia... like trying to find out what he's about so I don't get hurt again. I've found myself doing it before in past relationships... it's probably worse now that I AM divorced though...

 

...or it could be me just trying to understand him a little better. I like to figure out what he likes or what makes him tick so I can make him happy. He's not terribly open about some things, so I have to keep asking.

 

Maybe he does deserve someone better than me. I find myself thinking "Oh he never this he never that" and I catch myself in the act and then remind myself of when he does do such things. I keep telling myself I can't think in absolutes like that... it's not fair to him or me. Its rough.

 

good on not comparing him to the ex. don't focus on the r'ship so much though. have a good time with him.