Dreaded Friend ZONE

[fishtaco]

Overcoming friend zone is very difficult.

 

I like Cee's post. If you want to pull some strategy, it better be YOUR strategy. A borrowed strategy comes off creepy. You CAN base your strategy on other people's but you have to really learn the gist of it, adapt it to your own strengths.

 

Basically, it's very difficult to do, and unless you are either 1) natural at it or 2) you have a point to prove, my advice is, don't bother.

 

Before you launch into an extended mission of defeating the friend zone, the most important question is, is she worth the effort. 99.9% of the time, the answer is no. There will be someone else right around the corner, that's just as good as she is, except, you don't need to do all this.

 

Dating is a number game. If you hit resistance, go date someone else. The shotgun approach is much easier to do and will yield much better results. If you fall into friendzone, write her off and hit on her friends. The only effort you should put in when it comes to this friendzone issue, is what somedude81 said, make your intention clear, as soon as possible. That is 100% worth doing. Everything else, don't bother.

 

With that said, I believe it is worth your time to do social experimentation. Try and see if you can do it. Throw some mind games at her, even if you feel it's beneath you to do so. Because you're testing limits of social interaction. Then after that, you'll come to the conclusion that it's not worth the time or the effort.

 

Anyway, if you want to try the overcoming friendzone thing, here's one trick that may or may not work.

1) Increase your time with her, get her used to your companionship

2) Suddenly pull back and be "busy"

3) Subtlely leak information that you're casually dating someone else. But, women have uncanny intuition, faking it is difficult, so when possible, do it for real, i.e. casually date other women for real, will work much better.

4) Circle back around and see how she responds. Remember, many women, even if they are interested, won't take the aggressive step to come after you. So you have to circle back, determine she is now interested, and then put your move on her.

 

If this works (low percentage BTW), then enjoy your victory, but make it quick, because it won't last. Once you turn around and focus back on her, she's going to lose interest. Because this interest was artificially generated. So have sex with her, prove your point, throw a party, brag to your friends, do whatever it is you need to do, but make it quick -- it's not going to last.

 

Anyway, my recommendation still is:

- Make your intention clear right off the bat

- Shotgun method and take the path of least resistance

[Cypress25]

I've never had real issues with women who weren't attracted and expressed that clearly. The 'friend-zone' never resulted from those interactions. It was more the fence-sitters and nebulous nellies and less savory characters which gave rise to what LS'ers call the 'friend-zone'.

 

But that's just it. Women who friend zone you think they are expressing themselves clearly. It's just a polite way of rejecting you. They don't really want to be friends, but they don't want to come right out and say they're not attracted to you. They don't want to hurt your feelings, so they suggest being friends in an effort to soften the blow.

 

'Ooh, I love spending time with you. bla bla bla. Let's go do xxx or xxx'. Then there's the inane laughter. On and on.

 

Those are the more nebulous ones....

 

Those are the ones who probably do want to be friends with you because they genuinely like your personality. But they're still not attracted to you. Hence the friend zone.

 

I have identified two clear signals, historically, which have helped me clear the fog a bit....one, the non-friendzoning woman isn't all chatty about her 'stuff' and she never shares her insecurities in the early stages.

 

Some women will say anything to anyone. It shocks me, probably because I'm quite reserved with people I don't know. But I've met plenty of women who just love to talk about themselves, and they'll chat endlessly with anyone in their immediate vicinity. Friends, boyfriend, bartender, mailman, hairdresser, random guy in line at the supermarket, it doesn't matter. Doesn't necessarily mean she's friend zoning you.

 

Even now I've known this one girl for almost two year and I don't think she gives a damn about me.

 

There really is no point in being friends with women.

 

If she doesn't give a damn about you, then she's not a true friend. I have plenty of guy friends (I didn't friend zone them, OK, we've always been friends) and I treat them the way I would treat any of my friends. I'm there for them, I listen to them, we get along, we have fun when we hang out. That's a real friendship. And they don't pay for my dinner!

 

Being friends with a woman doesn't mean getting used or ignored. That's not friendship.

 

I kind of looked at him like he had a 3rd eye. "Fun activity"?

 

I thought it was weird. I wonder if he's asexual.

 

LOL, he didn't mean you should literally say the words "fun activity." He meant [fill in the blank with a fun activity]. Like see a movie, go to a concert, etc. And I doubt he's asexual, he just sees the benefit in being friends with women who can introduce him to other women. Also, he probably stays friends with those women because he genuinely enjoys their company. He doesn't expect the friendship to lead to a romance, and he's OK with that. He pursues other women instead.

[irc333]

LOL, he didn't mean you should literally say the words "fun activity." He meant [fill in the blank with a fun activity]. Like see a movie, go to a concert, etc. And I doubt he's asexual, he just sees the benefit in being friends with women who can introduce him to other women. Also, he probably stays friends with those women because he genuinely enjoys their company. He doesn't expect the friendship to lead to a romance, and he's OK with that. He pursues other women instead.

 

Yeah, he just pursues friends of their friends. lol

[grkBoy]

In my experience, there`s no such thing as being permanently banished to the friend zone. Several girls have asked me out after being friends for years, even though I only wanted them as friends (I had a disease that eliminated my libido for several years). The catalyst could be a sincere conversation about the meaning of life or just 1 kiss that changes everything. Girls have told me there`s something very appealing about dating someone you know so well and trust, rather than trying to date a stranger. You don`t have to worry about making a good first impression, or what this person is like once the mask comes off.

 

Only times I've had women want to pull me out of the friendzone was when they were pushing a baby stroller from the d-bag who knocked them up and ran. One was just a mental case with no baby, but too much baggage from the many bad decisions she made after FZing me.

 

In my neck of the woods, these women only saw interest in me as a "last resort" or "backup plan".

 

 

 

I have a friend, over 40, single....has a lot of female friends that welcome him everywhere, he might sometimes be the only guy painting the town with them at the clubs.

 

I thought it was weird. I wonder if he's asexual.

 

Your friend sounds like he's at peace with himself and doesn't seem to care much if he has a GF or not.

 

I don't fully agree with his ideas simply because 99% of the time a guy ends up in the FZ for it. I'm not saying a guy should try to grope a woman he just met, but he should simply show interest and make it clearly obvious.

 

If she rejects the guy, IMHO it's not because he came on too strong, but because she wasn't into him to begin with...nor will she ever be into him. Guaranteed if Mr Dreamboat came on too strong she would still try dating him...because she's attracted to him.

[joystickd]

Why worry about the friend zone? I been through horrible experiences with women and been the friend. It got to me so much that one day I woke up and just dont really care. She says I want to be friends I say cool and never speak to her again. I refuse to hear problems from some woman that I can't hear moan from me giving it to them. Listening to problems doesnt benefit me. Thats why now I'm direct with what I want. She says no its cool because its her loss. Why be friends with someone that tells you about their relationships good or bad. You are basically watching them burnout. Its better to have a turnout than a burnout lol

[Cypress25]

Your friend sounds like he's at peace with himself and doesn't seem to care much if he has a GF or not.

 

Actually it sounds like he realizes that he can be friends with women while simultaneously seeking a GF outside of his circle of female friends. He doesn't say "You just want to be friends? Well, that's not what I want, so I'm never going to speak to you again." Instead, he says "Fine, we can be friends. I'll flirt with other women instead, and I'll keep my friendship with you purely platonic."

 

I don't fully agree with his ideas simply because 99% of the time a guy ends up in the FZ for it.

 

But this guy is already in the friend zone. He's accepted it because he respects the fact that the woman is not sexually attracted to him. He's not trying to change her mind. So he settles for being her friend and turns his romantic interest to other women. That's probably why the women who FZ him think he's such a good friend. Because he flirted with her, she declined his advances, and he respected her decision. He didn't pretend to be her friend while continuing to hit on her.

[somedude81]

The main reason guys who have a problem with the friendzone actually have a problem, is because they are constantly being friendzoned.

 

How would you feel if every single guy you've liked told you, "Sorry, I don't want to be in a relationship with you. But I'll have sex with you."

 

Would you accept it and respect the fact they only want you for sex?

[joystickd]

[grkBoy]

Actually it sounds like he realizes that he can be friends with women while simultaneously seeking a GF outside of his circle of female friends. He doesn't say "You just want to be friends? Well, that's not what I want, so I'm never going to speak to you again." Instead, he says "Fine, we can be friends. I'll flirt with other women instead, and I'll keep my friendship with you purely platonic."

 

But this guy is already in the friend zone. He's accepted it because he respects the fact that the woman is not sexually attracted to him. He's not trying to change her mind. So he settles for being her friend and turns his romantic interest to other women. That's probably why the women who FZ him think he's such a good friend. Because he flirted with her, she declined his advances, and he respected her decision. He didn't pretend to be her friend while continuing to hit on her.

 

And there's nothing wrong with that. I've done the very same thing. It's easy if you thought the girl was attractive but you didn't have a strong enough lust for her that it would make "friends only" difficult.

 

I only tell guys not to accept the friendzone when they really feel some deep lust and can't fathom this girl as anything other than girlfriend. That and I tell guys NEVER to accept the friendzone if they're hoping this will lead to more. In most cases, people don't end up dating their friends unless they're desperate.

 

Let's be honest here...most of the guys on this board who get FZed did not want to be "just friends"...and if they see "just friends" as a step down, then they should simply walk away with their manhood as opposed to hoping things could grow to more.

[Trovador]

I honestly can't recall a sole instance in my whole life where a woman developed romantic feelings for me after some time of friendship or colleagueship, even if, or especially if, I felt (or believed I did) something for them after that time...

 

And it is possible that some women in my past might have feelings after I showed them I was interested, that is, I somehow created those would be feelings...

 

And of course there were women that liked me right away, what doesn't automatically means we could have a relationship...

 

And there were women that liked me and wanted and could have a relationship with me and I happily and readily obliged...

 

And there were women who had the shots for me at first but after some lack of cojones from my part, got all lukewarm if not blatantly cold...

 

What I am trying to say is that most women, if not all of them, offer friendship by default and it's up to us, men, to show the girls we are crazy for that that won't be the case, we'll never play the role of the gay old friend!

[Wolf18]

For all you women who use the misleading friend line because you want to be "nice", stop doing that.

 

If you put a man in the friend zone, we already know you are not sexually attracted to us, and they have probably been put in the friend zone many times before for the same exact reason.

 

Putting a man in the friend zone is way worst than just saying "you're too short", "you're too ugly" , "you're too poor" , etc, because atleast if you do that we can lie to ourselves and say "wow she was a bitch anyway, good thing she rejected me" Instead, when you friend zone a guy and become close to him , and later on we find out how well we get along, and you still have us friend zoned because of physical appearance, it's way worse than just telling us to **** off.

 

To men who fall for the friend zone trick, trust me, a woman friend is a pretty fruitless relationship.

[MaxNoob]

 

To men who fall for the friend zone trick, trust me, a woman friend is a pretty fruitless relationship.

 

Just the opposite for me. When I had no libido, hanging out with guys was annoying. Just sitting around drinking, talking about how they want to bang every 2nd girl that walks by. They’d hassle me; “hey why aren`t you banging those hot girls you know?” With girls, I could have an interesting conversation, and actually do something other than drinking, like go skiing, see a movie, climb a mountain.

[Wolf18]

Just the opposite for me. When I had no libido, hanging out with guys was annoying. Just sitting around drinking, talking about how they want to bang every 2nd girl that walks by. They’d hassle me; “hey why aren`t you banging those hot girls you know?” With girls, I could have an interesting conversation, and actually do something other than drinking, like go skiing, see a movie, climb a mountain.

 

I guess everyone has a different experience. Yes, I do like talking about women I want to bang with my friends, but 90% of the conversations we have are about philosophy, world events, explosives/fireworks, how to make a potato cannon, and other things that no woman I've ever met has been even remotely interested in.

 

I think skiing is an empty, sanitized thrill for lame, yuppy bourgeois types (IE, more of a status symbol than anything deep or meaningful). And I don't believe you've climbed any worthwhile mountains with women. Most movies nowadays are made for a female audience, so I believe that too.

 

I'm also sure your female "friends" talked about guys that are "HOT" as often or more as men. Women are more subtle, but the thought is the same. In fact, 9 out of 10 things that come out of a woman's mouth pertain to physical looks: "wow she's so pretty", "she's ugly", "wow he's really tall", "omg look at his biceps", BLAH BLAH BLAH .

Edited October 21, 2011 by Wolf18

[MaxNoob]

I'm also sure your female "friends" talked about guys that are "HOT" as often or more as men. Women are more subtle, but the thought is the same. In fact, 9 out of 10 things that come out of a woman's mouth pertain to physical looks: "wow she's so pretty", "she's ugly", "wow he's really tall", "omg look at his biceps", BLAH BLAH BLAH .

 

Yeah, the girly girls. Mine weren`t like that, or at least they had the courtesy to refrain from that when I was with them. With guys, that kind of banter is expected of me, and it`s just nauseating.

[Cypress25]

How would you feel if every single guy you've liked told you, "Sorry, I don't want to be in a relationship with you. But I'll have sex with you."

 

Would you accept it and respect the fact they only want you for sex?

 

No, because a guy who says that just wants to use me. But friendship is not about using people. If a woman is a true friend of yours, she's not trying to use you.

 

Instead, when you friend zone a guy and become close to him , and later on we find out how well we get along, and you still have us friend zoned because of physical appearance, it's way worse than just telling us to **** off.

 

You have a choice, you know. You don't have to become the woman's friend if you don't want to. When you make your romantic interest known, you take a risk. And part of that risk is not having any control over the way you get rejected. It's not really fair to tell a woman that she has to reject you in a way that makes her feel terrible. And she probably would feel terrible about telling a guy that he's too ugly.

 

In fact, 9 out of 10 things that come out of a woman's mouth pertain to physical looks: "wow she's so pretty", "she's ugly", "wow he's really tall", "omg look at his biceps", BLAH BLAH BLAH .

 

I don't know anyone who talks like that.

[Wolf18]

^ That's a real white wash. Women aren't upfront and honest because they love the attention, even if it's not from a guy they like. If you think men and women can be friends without some degree of the male-female dynamic involved, you need to get real.

[Cypress25]

I am real. I'm a woman and I have many guy friends. I didn't friend zone them. They never hit on me, we've always been friends. Some of them have girlfriends, some of them don't. It's entirely possible for genuine friendship to exist between men and women.

 

Women aren't upfront and honest because they love the attention, even if it's not from a guy they like.

 

No one wants attention from someone they don't like. Spending time with someone you don't like is annoying at best and infuriating at worst. Most women are not attention whores, no matter how much you want to believe they are.

 

When a woman gives you the friend line, it means one of two things: (1) "I don't like you but I don't want to be a bitch about it, so I'm going to let you down gently and hope you take the hint." or (2) "I'm not attracted to you, but I genuinely like your personality so I wouldn't mind being friends."

 

In scenario 1, the woman is hoping you'll walk away and never bother her again. In scenario 2, the woman is hoping you'll be her friend because she truly likes you as a person. In neither of these scenarios is the woman trying to use you for attention. So either walk away or be a true friend. Don't sulk and bitterly accuse her of something she's not doing.

 

I just don't know how guys translate "Let's be friends" to "I want to use you." Friends don't use each other.

[somedude81]

No, because a guy who says that just wants to use me. But friendship is not about using people. If a woman is a true friend of yours, she's not trying to use you.

Using or not.

 

They are still offering friendship as a consolation prize.

 

That's why men take it as an insult when a woman rejects him but offers him friendship.

 

It's roughly the same thing as a man turning down a friendship but he's willing to have sex with you.

[OnyxSnowfall]

^ That's a real white wash. Women aren't upfront and honest because they love the attention, even if it's not from a guy they like. If you think men and women can be friends without some degree of the male-female dynamic involved, you need to get real.

 

I actually tend to really lean this way heh.... at least, within a certain age range. In my experience, it's been very common... (I haven't bothered trying to have male "platonic" friends for quite a long time now because they do always want more --- and the female "platonic" friends my boyfriend had were married but constantly flirted with him, but had long since friend-zoned him [and a "close" one in particular was really, really horrible and attempted to go far beyond flirting... but only once he and I got together lol]).

 

However, I think your scope will broaden as you age more...

[thatcatlady67]

Just keep approaching women and think of it as practice. Learn to read body language. This will build your confidence, and confidence (not cockiness) attracts quality women. Don't take it too personally if a woman is not romantically attracted to you. Each time you get friendzoned, you are that much closer to finding the right one.

[Cypress25]

Using or not.

 

They are still offering friendship as a consolation prize.

 

That's why men take it as an insult when a woman rejects him but offers him friendship.

 

If you think women are offering friendship as a consolation prize, then don't take it. I would only accept that offer if it was genuine. If it's not genuine, then it's just a polite rejection, and rejection always hurts, even if it's gentle.

 

It's roughly the same thing as a man turning down a friendship but he's willing to have sex with you.

 

I still have to disagree with this. That's not even a consolation prize, that's just "I'll use you if you let me." Nothing consoling about that.

 

On average women will always have more women friends.

Men will have more men friends.

 

This is because men and women were put on this earth to mate. Not to be friendly with each other. Friendliness doesn't continue the existence of our species.

 

Apparently women were put on this earth to be bitches to each other, then. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I have more male friends than female friends, just because I get along better with guys. I have a few female friends, but I've known them for more than 20 years. For the most part, I find women hard to get along with. Too gossipy and catty for me.

[FrustratedStandards]

Honestly?

 

Physical attraction. Every guy in the friend zone (in my case) is there because he is a great guy, but doesn't pass for physical attraction, otherwise I would have dated him.

[joystickd]

Honestly?

 

Physical attraction. Every guy in the friend zone (in my case) is there because he is a great guy, but doesn't pass for physical attraction, otherwise I would have dated him.

 

You may feel that way but to a man that is like saying "Hey you are qualified for the job but we can't hire you and we will hire someone and tell you all about it".

 

Let's be honest here no man is out here looking for platonic friendship. Imagine some guy like "Oh man! She is so hot and I bet she will make an excellent platonic friend!". Just picture someone saying that. If you are not attracted just say no its as simple as that. Some men mistake the friend zone as that shred of hope of it changing in their favor and the reality is it never does. I pissed a woman off once by asking her how many of these "male friends" became turned into a relationship. She had no answer and on top of that she was one of those women that are very manipulative. Its these type of women that take a friend zone which could be a possibly rewarding friendship given certain circumstances and make it bad for all women. Just like certain men that make it bad for all men. I seen it a few time they want to be friends then dangle a chance for more out there then take it back.

 

I know for me I have a rule that is if she wants to be friends I really dont speak to her anymore. I came to this conclusion after putting a woman that really liked me in the friend zone. She would call all the time and sometimes practically beg for a relationship. After that experience I decided it was better to just find a nice way to reject them. I prefer if women did the same thing. I would never consider it a friendship if one person is using it to buy time until they can get closer to you because in a way to me thats being manipulative.

[FrustratedStandards]

BUt my friend zoned guys date other girls and have other girlfriends. Don't give the girl too much credit. My "friend-zoning" them didn't have that big of an effect. They understood it as i'm not interested romantically and moved on.

 

I think in this case its not really giving hope unless the girl leads you on. If she plain out says "lets just be friends" isn't that clue enough that she's not interested romantically? Why would you continue to pursue her?

 

I think maybe you just need to change your attitude about it. If you know that friend zoning doesn't lead anywhere, why do you continue to say it gives men hope? By now you should know that its false hope and won't really lead anywhere.

 

And for the record, I friend zoned them because they are great guys, and I still talk to many of them and they have girlfriends. Just because I won't date them doesn't mean they are entirely uninteresting people with whom I can't keep in touch. But that's just me. I'm sure a manipulative women would do differently.

[YaOldBuckaroo]

Hi!

 

One of the biggest reasons why a girl keeps a guy in the friend zone is because she doesn't see enough of the qualities her idea of the ideal boyfriend should have. Moreover, it's possible she isn't sexually attracted to any of your physical features or the image you project upon her.

 

That's my opinion. Also, found this article on the net. Might help to check it out.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Max