Dreaded Friend ZONE

[tradewinds]

Women, how can guys stay out of the dreaded friend zone?

When does a guy cross from possible to the friend zone (as in what are the signs or how do you know)?

Don't give some generic answer like: When I find we have nothing in common (sorry but I think that is not always true).

 

Here's my theory:

• You think he is not his own man - No opinion, too agreeable, not capable of being the leader (too submissive)
  
• He is too predictable - no mystery
  
• Too much affection towards you (putting you on a pedestal)
  

 

What is it?

[somedude81]

From what I gather, the only way to stay out of the friendzone is to make your intentions very clear, very quickly.

 

Otherwise you may get suck in the friendzone, forever.

[ptp]

I think a lot also has to do with if a girl finds you physically attractive.

 

Good looking + good personality = potential mate

Unattractive + good personality = friend zone forever

[Cee]

I have a friend who is a master of overcoming the friendzone. Every girlfriend tried to friendzone him, but he persisted in wooing them and these gorgeous women succumbed. But he has unique strengths which is staggering intelligence coupled with a great sense of humor. He loves the challenge so he's not deterred if a woman says she's not interested. He had a strong ego and was confident he would succeed.

 

However, my friend's approach is unique to him. Another male friend wanted to use his approach, but it came across as creepy and stalkerish.

 

If you really want to overcome the friendzone, then you'll have to find ways to heighten the existing attraction women have for you. And then strike in a moment of vulnerability and openness. That requires some finesse, but I have seen it done.

[somedude81]

If you really want to overcome the friendzone, then you'll have to find ways to heighten the existing attraction women have for you. And then strike in a moment of vulnerability and openness. That requires some finesse, but I have seen it done.

Tips?

 

This is something I would greatly like to learn as I'm friendzoned all the damn time.

[tradewinds]

I think a lot also has to do with if a girl finds you physically attractive.

 

Good looking + good personality = potential mate

Unattractive + good personality = friend zone forever

 

Thanks for the input so far.

I'm talking about after that initial stage. We all know attraction (good looking) does not last forever on it's own. I am talking after that, when a girl says the dreaded, "I just want to be friends."

I have found myself in lasting friendships with girls after that. I look back now on how I acted and think "I was just to comfortable with her, and her with me. There was no mystery, the chase was over!" While in other instances, I may not have "connected" so well, didn't get too comfortable and the chase continued.

[grkBoy]

Set their hormones and panties on fire (not literally)

 

Be strong enough to reject thr friendzone offer and walk away.

[jerbear]

Tips?

 

This is something I would greatly like to learn as I'm friendzoned all the damn time.

Reject their offer, walk away, pick a new target. Still hang out only if there are other women around so you both are on the same friend zone page. She'll be your wing woman.

 

Set their hormones and panties on fire (not literally)

 

Be strong enough to reject thr friendzone offer and walk away.

 

It is when you walk away some of them might call you. Funny how that goes.

[somedude81]

Reject their offer, walk away, pick a new target.

Walking away from every single one, doesn't get me anything.

 

They never call.

[carhill]

Really, IMO, the only 'thing' that keeps a man in the friend-zone or brother-zone is his emotions; his 'want'. If not for that, FZ and BZ wouldn't exist. He wants a hot sweaty body fluid swap and gets the oh so warm and friendly hug of happenis death. Kill the want, since he's not going to get it and he's not going to rape her, and walk away.

 

I've found that the best way to end things (kill the want) is with a blatant sexual move, which of course shocks and angers the lady, then she gets pissed, I get pissed and game over. I don't recommend this but it works better with my psychology to sever the emotional connection which has been built. It respects my desire, allows me to care less about the lady's feelings since I've probably already been caring about them way too much, and ends things on a sour note which helps me not to revisit the dynamic with what-ifs. Again, not a recommendation, rather merely an anecdote which has helped over the years. Younger and/or more aggressive guys are generally making sexual moves right out of the box so they don't have such issues. In fact, their style (which I often read about here on LS) is a great way to never even approach the friend-zone. Either you get laid or you get slapped. No friends there.

[tradewinds]

Set their hormones and panties on fire (not literally)

 

Be strong enough to reject thr friendzone offer and walk away.

 

This is easy to do, but this is more of a curiosity thing. I think I know, I just want some other theories.

[carhill]

OP, generally, if a woman does not feel a marked buzz in her nether regions upon first encountering you *and* you get to know her through friendly discourse, you are forever banished to that warm and celibate place of the friend. IME, it's a two stage process. Further, she might get a little wet but, if you don't work it right away and build it, just like your erection can die down, so can her wetness. Once it's gone and you didn't do anything to rev it back up, friend.

 

You'll hear it on this forum (and I've heard it in real life) that 'he must not be interested in me' after some nebulous period of time and nebulous perception of some actions I performed. After that point she's made up her mind and it doesn't matter. This was especially true back when I was an undisclosed virgin dating women and 'getting to know' them. I wasn't revving up their engine like they were used to (with other men) so 'friend'.

 

Obviously, this ignores dynamics where the lady thought me completely unattractive. That's a no brainer - zippo. Might as well charm the North Pole.

 

Theories are nice to discuss but that's all they are - theories. There are billions of women in the world and they're all unique. I'm just sharing my infinitesimally small sample of them and the generalities gleaned from that. YMMV.

[USMCHokie]

OP, generally, if a woman does not feel a marked buzz in her nether regions upon first encountering you *and* you get to know her through friendly discourse, you are forever banished to that warm and celibate place of the friend. IME, it's a two stage process. Further, she might get a little wet but, if you don't work it right away and build it, just like your erection can die down, so can her wetness. Once it's gone and you didn't do anything to rev it back up, friend.

 

You'll hear it on this forum (and I've heard it in real life) that 'he must not be interested in me' after some nebulous period of time and nebulous perception of some actions I performed. After that point she's made up her mind and it doesn't matter. This was especially true back when I was an undisclosed virgin dating women and 'getting to know' them. I wasn't revving up their engine like they were used to (with other men) so 'friend'.

 

Obviously, this ignores dynamics where the lady thought me completely unattractive. That's a no brainer - zippo. Might as well charm the North Pole.

 

Theories are nice to discuss but that's all they are - theories. There are billions of women in the world and they're all unique. I'm just sharing my infinitesimally small sample of them and the generalities gleaned from that. YMMV.

 

If this is true, then it does not bode well for me on my little "date" tomorrow night...

[AHardDaysNight]

Carhill, what you say depresses me.

 

How are you supposed to avoid the friendzone, if every single girl reacts the same?

 

Damn.

[Cypress25]

The friend zone has nothing to do with a guy's personality. You'll get friend zoned if a woman is not sexually attracted to you. There's nothing you can do to avoid the friend zone. Physical attraction is either there or it isn't.

 

Come on, guys, you understand. You wouldn't want to date a woman you're not attracted to either.

[carhill]

I've never had real issues with women who weren't attracted and expressed that clearly. The 'friend-zone' never resulted from those interactions. It was more the fence-sitters and nebulous nellies and less savory characters which gave rise to what LS'ers call the 'friend-zone'.

 

Example: 'I'll never see you as anyone other than a friend'.... That's a great line. Over and done.

 

Next, perhaps not as brutal but still pretty clear: 'I don't feel 'that' way about you'. They feel something, but no buzz in the loins. Cool. Accepted.

 

'Ooh, I love spending time with you. bla bla bla. Let's go do xxx or xxx'. Then there's the inane laughter. On and on.

 

Those are the more nebulous ones....

 

I have identified two clear signals, historically, which have helped me clear the fog a bit....one, the non-friendzoning woman isn't all chatty about her 'stuff' and she never shares her insecurities in the early stages. Two, I get marked little snippets of bitchiness and jealousy. Not much, but there's an 'edge' to things because there's something about me that 'matters' to her. She, at some level, 'cares' about where this might go and if my actions aren't matching up, that's annoying. If I'm 'just a friend', she could care less....bla, bla, no biggie.

 

Anyway, carry on...

[Trovador]

This is not a tip, just my experience:

 

5 girls in 4 years. All of them my girlfriends.

 

I made clear my intentions from the beginning.

 

I was genuinely interested in them.

 

I made them believe they were unique. They were.

 

They were my whole world and they sensed it.

 

I did my thing by ear. That is, they heard from me the sweetest things a guy might tell them. All of those things were sincere.

 

I told them I loved them, even before we had a relationship. Again, this was true. Or I believed that, which it is the same thing.

 

I combined eroticism with romanticism, or rather I balanced both.

 

Despite I was crazy for them (I really was) I never told them all there was to know about me, even to this day.

 

I made all of them laugh since the first instant we met. I tried for all means to be their personal source of good humor, as opposed to the public clown all people laugh at.

 

All of them told me I was an unpredictable guy.

 

And... I "broke up" with them after some weeks, when all of them seemed cold, maybe as a defense mechanism because, frankly, I am not the prettiest boy in the block. All of them "came back" after a reasonable period. The rest is history.

 

This is the way I am. I refuse to be a friend if the girl isn't (or doesn't show me she is) into me, mainly because I don't want to be her friend, I want to be her lover.

 

Three days ago I told a girl I was interested in that I refused her offer of friendship, which it was all she could give to me. I disappeared from her life. Until today, when she called me and admitted she had feelings for me, but she "expected to dilute (sic) them in a close friendship..."

 

I am not saying you do this, but maybe you can find something useful in my experience. Have in mind that whenever I've been a wuss and the guy any girl would take home to mother I have never batted a hit (the world series is here, go Cards!)...

[MaxNoob]

OP, generally, if a woman does not feel a marked buzz in her nether regions upon first encountering you *and* you get to know her through friendly discourse, you are forever banished to that warm and celibate place of the friend.

 

In my experience, there`s no such thing as being permanently banished to the friend zone. Several girls have asked me out after being friends for years, even though I only wanted them as friends (I had a disease that eliminated my libido for several years). The catalyst could be a sincere conversation about the meaning of life or just 1 kiss that changes everything. Girls have told me there`s something very appealing about dating someone you know so well and trust, rather than trying to date a stranger. You don`t have to worry about making a good first impression, or what this person is like once the mask comes off.

[grkBoy]

It is when you walk away some of them might call you. Funny how that goes.

 

I agree in many ways. Most of the time they don't come calling, but they stop seeing you as some "non-gender" person whom they can hang with, buddy with, and especially cry on your shoulder when every guy she actually wants rejects her.

 

 

This is easy to do, but this is more of a curiosity thing. I think I know, I just want some other theories.

 

The point is, there are no magic words or moves that guarantee a guy won't see the friend zone. You want to up your chances to stay out? Then it's the usual shallow things:

 

1. Hit the gym regularly and get a tight swimmer's body
   
2. Invest in good hygiene and metro stuff to have great hair all the time. Even if you're going more for a "rugged" or "masculine" thing, you still have to spend more time worrying about your appearance every time you're going out into the world.
   
3. Work hard and apply yourself to make lots of money...because most women love guys who are successful.
   
4. Build that confidence to the point of narcissism, so you come off as the biggest VIP out there, and women will kill themselves to be with you.
   

 

That's really the "guaranteed" ways. When you're the hot, financially well-to-do, confident alpha male, women will never fathom "friend zone" with you.

 

The problem is most guys do not have the ability, time, or even opportunity to become this. So the only things I can tell you is to make sure you come off as a man every time you approach a woman. Flirt...show her you have a penis and are ready to use it. Granted you'll still get a lot of rejections...but women will flat-out reject you as opposed to friendzoning you.

 

I talk about "walking away" from the friendzone offer because most of the time, these women don't want to be your friend. They either just want you go away, or to be their backup guy when they need a date for a wedding reception. These women also want you to be their cuddle-b***h, crying blanket, and "good gal pal" they can talk to all the time...despite that they won't date you. They want to attempt to make you the intellectual side of a RL, while some other douchebag gets to be the physical side.

 

Some have actually tried to get the "friend" to take her out on dates, then drop her off at the "boyfriend's" apartment so she can bang him. I still cannot believe some guys let themselves fall into this trap.

 

Now some girls actually want to be friends. They will listen when you have a problem, give you a hug when you're down, and even introduce you to their single female friends whom they think you would click with. These are definitely keepers, but I say if you want to date a girl, then be strong and walk away when she won't give you that.

 

In the end, many women will respect you for showing strength. I don't think they'll change their minds, but they will see you as a man.

[carhill]

In my experience, there`s no such thing as being permanently banished to the friend zone. Several girls have asked me out after being friends for years, even though I only wanted them as friends (I had a disease that eliminated my libido for several years)

How old are you, son?

 

I'm reflecting back on about 37 years of experience, so far. Almost two generations. Daughters of women. You can even ask a number of female LS'ers right here, if they're willing to voluntarily share what they know. Very few women here have shared that their feelings 'change' over time. Either they felt that way in the beginning, a 'spark' they call it, like with you when your libido was on vacation, or they didn't. That they didn't act on it until later is only time. If they didn't feel that spark *and* you became their 'friend' (it takes two to do that part, not just the woman's perception), then that's the path.

 

LS women live to call me wrong so I'll watch for that. The OP wanted theories on why and mine is pretty solid, backed up by years of experience and having female friends probably old enough to be your mother. They definitely can get attached emotionally, but not in a romantic way. Haven't seen one exception yet. Longest lived examples now pushing 18 years of consistent friendship, some through multiple marriages, which brings me to my next theory, which is, if one meets a woman while married, and the vast majority in these parts are, then one is cast into her mind a certain way, healthily, and remains that way, even if she were to become single in the future. One becomes the trusted friend who respected her while married, a valuable commodity and one she doesn't wish to lose. Men come and go but friends are valuable lifelong commodities.

 

Anyway, glad you've had different experiences and perhaps the young men here can take heart from them. Mine are pretty common in my generation but generally men my age don't talk about them, either because they're embarassed or because they've never thought about it and have lived their lives chasing tail so don't think of women as potential friends, ever. It's only been since my male friends have gotten older that the less than studly stories come out over beers. Nice to hear they're human too. Superman is overrated.

[AH1990]

This is not a tip, just my experience:

 

5 girls in 4 years. All of them my girlfriends.

 

I made clear my intentions from the beginning.

 

I was genuinely interested in them.

 

I made them believe they were unique. They were.

 

They were my whole world and they sensed it.

 

I did my thing by ear. That is, they heard from me the sweetest things a guy might tell them. All of those things were sincere.

 

I told them I loved them, even before we had a relationship. Again, this was true. Or I believed that, which it is the same thing.

 

I combined eroticism with romanticism, or rather I balanced both.

 

Despite I was crazy for them (I really was) I never told them all there was to know about me, even to this day.

 

I made all of them laugh since the first instant we met. I tried for all means to be their personal source of good humor, as opposed to the public clown all people laugh at.

 

All of them told me I was an unpredictable guy.

 

And... I "broke up" with them after some weeks, when all of them seemed cold, maybe as a defense mechanism because, frankly, I am not the prettiest boy in the block. All of them "came back" after a reasonable period. The rest is history.

 

This is the way I am. I refuse to be a friend if the girl isn't (or doesn't show me she is) into me, mainly because I don't want to be her friend, I want to be her lover.

 

Three days ago I told a girl I was interested in that I refused her offer of friendship, which it was all she could give to me. I disappeared from her life. Until today, when she called me and admitted she had feelings for me, but she "expected to dilute (sic) them in a close friendship..."

 

I am not saying you do this, but maybe you can find something useful in my experience. Have in mind that whenever I've been a wuss and the guy any girl would take home to mother I have never batted a hit (the world series is here, go Cards!)...

 

Happened to me on Tuesday. This girl initially came onto me back in July. Tried 'dating' for about a month. Then she told me she wasn't over her ex, I backed off, she ended up going out with someone 2 weeks later. And she wanted me to be her friend. I declined. 3 weeks later, she talked to me, wanted me to ask her out. Then again, she had something else going on. I declined friends. And MY GOD did she push the friend zone thing this time!!!! HARD!!!!!

 

Now, three days later, she texted me "hello". I didn't really give her an inch in the conversation we had. Sent about 3 messages. Didn't really ask her what was going on in her life. I didn't care. She wasn't my friend.

 

2 weeks from that day pass (this past Tuesday 18th), low and behold, she texts me!!! This time, she came out of nowhere and asked me if we could talk again. She even told me that she ended her 'so called relationship' she was having. Seemed kinda odd that she told me that because the conversation went from one end of the spectrum to the far opposite. Major subject change.

 

Now here I am, today, typing this, wondering where I should take her for our date next week that she agreed too .

 

This is the second girl that this has happened with. All times I declined friends. First time happened when I was 16. I declined friends, and low and behold she came back over a month later. I'm now 21 and this is still happening.

 

Just don't give them an inch! Let them know, you like them MORE THAN A FRIEND, let them know your intentions. If they decline, walk away. Simple as that. Sure enough if there is something that attracted them to you in the beginning, odds are its still there. If you let people walk all over you, THEY WILL!! Don't be their fun buddy, don't be their shoulder to cry on. You know what you want, and don't settle for anything less than that.

[MaxNoob]

How old are you, son?

 

 

I`m 32; 4 girls have asked me out after being long term friends.

 

In one case, it was because I had changed; I had gone through immense suffering, which does help to build character, and it made me stronger, which she liked.

 

In another case, the girl fell in love with me from one minute to the next after being friends for a year. I didn`t really do it on purpose (or maybe I did). I was just being considerate and humble while helping her with a task, making a big deal out of something trivial. Falling in love can create intense physical attraction when before there was none. A girl can have a list of conditions to consider someone as relationship material; he must be experienced, have a good job, etc. But all those conditions go out the window when she falls in love - love is blindness and it is unconditional. She had at least 5 guys after her, including a millionaire, but all of a sudden she only wanted me, even though I only had a net worth of $200.

 

In another case, the girl had to kiss me because of a true or dare contest, which did change everything.

 

And in the other case, the girl was trying to get revenge on her ex, so I guess that one doesn`t count. But in all these cases, I`m quite certain there was no attraction initially.

[somedude81]

Lucky.

 

I've never had a girl fall for me after being friends with her.

 

Even now I've known this one girl for almost two year and I don't think she gives a damn about me.

 

There really is no point in being friends with women.

[irc333]

I've found that the best way to end things (kill the want) is with a blatant sexual move, which of course shocks and angers the lady, then she gets pissed, I get pissed and game over. I don't recommend this but it works better with my psychology to sever the emotional connection which has been built. It respects my desire, allows me to care less about the lady's feelings since I've probably already been caring about them way too much, and ends things on a sour note which helps me not to revisit the dynamic with what-ifs. Again, not a recommendation, rather merely an anecdote which has helped over the years. Younger and/or more aggressive guys are generally making sexual moves right out of the box so they don't have such issues. In fact, their style (which I often read about here on LS) is a great way to never even approach the friend-zone. Either you get laid or you get slapped. No friends there.

 

I have a friend, over 40, single....has a lot of female friends that welcome him everywhere, he might sometimes be the only guy painting the town with them at the clubs.

 

He says, "The one thing they like about me, is that I don't try to grope them"

 

That they feel comfortable around him, and I think he's the first man I've ever met in his age bracket, that actually does not get frustrated by the friend zone.

 

You would not see him in this thread complaining about it the way some of us do either. LOL

 

He somehow makes a positive out it, inso much that those friends could introduce him to other female friends, networking so-to-speak. That trying to make things awkward for a woman, deliberately burning bridges as he puts it (and the way we think about making our intentions known, and fast) might just sabotage things, perhaps creep her out, she'll tell her friends you tried to "hit" on her...might even ruin your chances with her friends, too, because women have been known to talk.

 

When I talk to him about how I've been friendzone, he' asks me if I make my approach to asking them out too quickly, come on too strong, etc

 

Of course, in this thread we are encouraged to "come on too strong" by letting our intentions be known right away, but at the same time ruining a friendship....or in fact, ruining ANY contact with said woman.

 

He said, "Why don't you just ask her out on a 'friendly outing'" as he puts it or "a fun activity"

 

Say something like "Hey, there's this real fun activity at Fun Town tonight, want to come along?"

 

Instead of, "Hey, mind joining me on a date?"

 

I kind of looked at him like he had a 3rd eye. "Fun activity"?

 

I thought it was weird. I wonder if he's asexual.

[ptp]

Lucky.

 

I've never had a girl fall for me after being friends with her.

 

Even now I've known this one girl for almost two year and I don't think she gives a damn about me.

 

There really is no point in being friends with women.

 

Or at least ones that you want to get with.

 

Hey, I have been telling you to drop that chick for months.