Dust Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 OP if you want the girl then work things out. Only she can change the way she is though. If you've had enough then try to part ways as kindly as you can. Some times there is no good option. You just have to pick the better of the two. People have trouble closing doors. Thats why you'll lean toward trying to work this out rather then moving on. Either way you have much to gain and much to lose. Personaly I've had plenty of girls try to take advantage. Financialy you can just say no. If they anoy you a lot leave. With the cleaning up thing there isn't much you can do.
Pierre Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 The teaching point of the story is that living together without commitment usually leads to a break up as soon as there is a problem or an obstacle. If the OP was committed he would not complain and find a way to make things work. If the GF was committed she would also find a way to a solution. These living arrangements without commitment are good only if there are no obstacles or problems. As of now the OP and GF are looking out for themselves with little consideration for the other partner and that is the wrong thing to do for a couple.
zengirl Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 An aside about studies, chores, and working: I am currently employed full time (though my schedule varies wildly, anything from 30 hours per week to 70 hours per week) and a PhD candidate in night school classes what is considered full-time. I also completed my M.A./M.Ed (joint program) while working nearly full time most of the program, though I admit I did have to leave my initial career (advertising) because I wasn't able to attend classes with that schedule and constant not-knowing when I would need to work and instead took a restaurant job. I also worked full time my last year of undergraduate and before that worked 25-35 hours every week, with the exception of the first semester of college where I was looking for a job but had trouble finding one since I was 17. So, totally possible to work during school. A lot of it depends on the difficulty school poses to you; my classes have always been easy. I even consider the PhD work a breeze (and it's also in the field in which I work, which means I can do my PhD research at work, etc). So, a lot of the judgment depends on her field of study, etc. As to chores, I have always kept a fairly neat house. I'm no neatnik, but I don't find household chores really consume much time if done efficiently and regularly. As to this relationship, it sounds like, as Pierre says, y'all simply are not committed, and also that her finances and habits don't align with something YOU want to commit to, OP. So, that's kind of up to you. Would I have the same attitude she does about unemployment? No. But if her work is interfering with school, something has to be done. As to the help issue: My parents helped me out with graduate school --- I put myself through college, as they didn't have money at that time to really help me and hadn't saved anything, but during graduate school they helped me by buying my student health insurance and sending me grocery gift cards (in rather large amounts---probably bought most of my groceries during that time) and chipping in a few other places. I was still pretty young, but even now, at 27, if I needed help for some reason, I'd rather go to my parents than go into real debt. So, I guess the "Daddy paying for things" depends on the dynamic between her and her parents. I consider myself a very responsible, independent person, but family helps family. I have helped family members who needed money (without expecting anything back!) when I had it. To me, that doesn't seem an issue unless she has a user attitude about it, which is kind of unclear and really up to her Dad to worry about anyway. I have helped a SO and supported him before (not my current BF) when living together, and I would not be ashamed to have someone help and support me if they were a longterm SO, which is like family. It all depends on the attitude and dynamics of the relationship. At any rate, the biggest red flag is that she moved out without telling you. You also just don't sound happy. So, it sounds like this relationship is untenable, but not necessarily because anything is "wrong" with either of you. You just aren't compatible.
RiverRunning Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 This should be a warning to everyone - all of the cards need to be laid out on the table before moving in together. Housework, bills, what happens if someone loses a job, what happens if there's an unexpected pregnancy, how kids will be raised, etc. Mostly all of the same stuff you would discuss if you were to marry. I have several friends who decided to cohabit. Many have split. Poor planning and some making absolutely no effort. Or, they thought moving in together would fix their relationship. Surprise - it didn't. You can't change the lack of effort she's putting in. The only thing you can do is talk to her about your expectations - which I think should include at least a part-time job. If she can't work 10 to 15 hours a week, then she's demonstrating that she's not willing to work for what she wants. Is that someone you want to eventually marry? Someone who's going to lay back and expect you to pick up the slack? I can understand schooling, but c'mon. Considering her dependence, I'm going to guess it's undergrad. I dated someone like this. Eventually his job vanished (he got fired because he constantly called off of work). It was 'way too stressful' to go to 3 undergrad classes a week. Now he goes to one class a semester and doesn't work. Those 4 hours or so a week (including studying/writing papers/etc.) must leave him absolutely exhausted! The point being: if it's depression, you can try to help but ultimately she's got to pull herself out of that funk. You can only do so much. How long have you been dating, OP? I didn't catch it.
Author monkey00 Posted October 20, 2011 Author Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) OP if you want the girl then work things out. Only she can change the way she is though. If you've had enough then try to part ways as kindly as you can. Some times there is no good option. You just have to pick the better of the two. People have trouble closing doors. Thats why you'll lean toward trying to work this out rather then moving on. Either way you have much to gain and much to lose. Personaly I've had plenty of girls try to take advantage. Financialy you can just say no. If they anoy you a lot leave. With the cleaning up thing there isn't much you can do. I do have much to gain and much to lose. And I do have some difficulty closing the door on this. I am still very much emotionally attached to her. And I do think of her/miss her when she isn't around. Given all the good and bad in the relationship, she was good to me and I was good to her. I feel like I've always had a bad habit with attracting girls who had a spoiled upbringing and look to me as a provider, a previous ex was like that also. Do you love this girl? As yourself this question. Everyone here going to say what they think is best for you. I would come home and tell her hey " I just lost all my money in an investment deal that had gone bad" We're going to have to tighten the funds available now! Cut back too.. See how she takes it and then you know who your dealing with. Keep control of your money and just watch how she plays her hand. Your in a tight spot with her. Seems you care about her to share the info you have told us. Good Luck! I've ran into a few situations where she would see me spend money elsewhere like things for the house. There are times where she doesn't have a good reaction...she brings it up every now and then when we have an argument. I wonder if she's bitter because she doesn't have access to my money. I've seen her spend money on things also for herself but I never complain. There was one time where she mentioned about opening a bank account together, to save for vacations - which to me I saw unnecessary because if I wanted to travel somewhere I would have the money for it. Another time she mentioned about sharing my bank account with her, and I just ignored her. With her spending habits and debt she would easily suck my savings dry. I don't know if I can blame her for looking for someone to support her financially or wanting access to money. I've never been without cash or broke, so I don't know how it feels. But I can imagine it must be a terrible situation to be in. Before she started school this semester, she had a low paying job on top of her school loan + credit card debt. Truthfully she did trap me in the beginning by lying about her debt. And if I did not ask her again for the real debt # the day before she moved out, I don't know when/if I would have ever found out. The teaching point of the story is that living together without commitment usually leads to a break up as soon as there is a problem or an obstacle. If the OP was committed he would not complain and find a way to make things work. If the GF was committed she would also find a way to a solution. These living arrangements without commitment are good only if there are no obstacles or problems. As of now the OP and GF are looking out for themselves with little consideration for the other partner and that is the wrong thing to do for a couple. The first few months we were living together things were good. And we were both committed. But I think down the line, she slowly became the one that became uncommitted. A) we used to cook dinner and eat together at night...eventually she decided to keep switching diets, then stopped eating what I cook altogether. B) She slowly became more miserable with her job and was seeking a new career path....her job and financial situation made her depressed at times C) 90% of the time I had to clean up after both of us in the morning and night (kitchen and dishes). My life became hell because I got off work late at night having to cook my own dinner and clean up after both of us. Especially when I would come home from work seeing her watching tv or being on facebook. She was the one that changed/shifted/became inconsistent. While I've been working to adapt to her changes/situation. An aside about studies, chores, and working: I am currently employed full time (though my schedule varies wildly, anything from 30 hours per week to 70 hours per week) and a PhD candidate in night school classes what is considered full-time. I also completed my M.A./M.Ed (joint program) while working nearly full time most of the program, though I admit I did have to leave my initial career (advertising) because I wasn't able to attend classes with that schedule and constant not-knowing when I would need to work and instead took a restaurant job. I also worked full time my last year of undergraduate and before that worked 25-35 hours every week, with the exception of the first semester of college where I was looking for a job but had trouble finding one since I was 17. So, totally possible to work during school. A lot of it depends on the difficulty school poses to you; my classes have always been easy. I even consider the PhD work a breeze (and it's also in the field in which I work, which means I can do my PhD research at work, etc). So, a lot of the judgment depends on her field of study, etc. As to chores, I have always kept a fairly neat house. I'm no neatnik, but I don't find household chores really consume much time if done efficiently and regularly. As to this relationship, it sounds like, as Pierre says, y'all simply are not committed, and also that her finances and habits don't align with something YOU want to commit to, OP. So, that's kind of up to you. Would I have the same attitude she does about unemployment? No. But if her work is interfering with school, something has to be done. yes daily chores likely take less than 30 minutes to do. We even have a dishwasher and she doesn't even use it. I think some days she can be depressed and unhappy, but the next minute she can be happy. She has sudden mood swings like that. I have a feeling that when she is happy she will pitch in around the house, and when she isn't she will be lying around the house doing nothing. She is an undergrad studying to change career paths. According to her, her major is difficult and requires a lot of time to study. Although that could be true, I find it's a poor excuse not to work part-time for a whole year. I see her on facebook when she's out hanging with friends, visiting the family, or going to the gym. The way I see it, she has as much leisure time as she does school work. As to the help issue: My parents helped me out with graduate school --- I put myself through college, as they didn't have money at that time to really help me and hadn't saved anything, but during graduate school they helped me by buying my student health insurance and sending me grocery gift cards (in rather large amounts---probably bought most of my groceries during that time) and chipping in a few other places. I was still pretty young, but even now, at 27, if I needed help for some reason, I'd rather go to my parents than go into real debt. So, I guess the "Daddy paying for things" depends on the dynamic between her and her parents. I consider myself a very responsible, independent person, but family helps family. I have helped family members who needed money (without expecting anything back!) when I had it. To me, that doesn't seem an issue unless she has a user attitude about it, which is kind of unclear and really up to her Dad to worry about anyway. I have helped a SO and supported him before (not my current BF) when living together, and I would not be ashamed to have someone help and support me if they were a longterm SO, which is like family. It all depends on the attitude and dynamics of the relationship. It sounds to me like your dynamic with your parents sound pretty similar to hers. She's ok with family helping her out and doing things on top of the financial aspect. She's from the suburbs and I'm from the city, so I feel like we have that clash that's preventing us from understanding each other. I've always made sure I was self-reliant because I know people can be unreliable and flakey. So in essence I do appreciate hard work and being fair/being a team player. On the other hand I feel the opposite from her, she does not appreciate hard work and would rather someone do something for her if they offer. She would rather rely/expect someone to do something than being self-reliant herself. My problem with her is that she's okay with that, and I get annoyed because I feel like she takes advantage of people as she readily accepts help from people. And strange as it is people area always offering to help her/do things for her, including friends, family, acquantances, and strangers. She doesn't have the ego to say no and accepts the situation. That's why I feel like she's spoiled. At any rate, the biggest red flag is that she moved out without telling you. You also just don't sound happy. So, it sounds like this relationship is untenable, but not necessarily because anything is "wrong" with either of you. You just aren't compatible. Her sister has a strong influence over her and I felt that was one of the major reasons she moved out. But what lead to that was a terrible argument we had that stayed unresolved for just 1 day. It was extremely selfish and immature that she moved out. She does have a strange problem...one time we had a disagreement about purchasing a piece of furniture at Ikea, she walked out on me and left the store. She admitted this as a problem eventually. This should be a warning to everyone - all of the cards need to be laid out on the table before moving in together. Housework, bills, what happens if someone loses a job, what happens if there's an unexpected pregnancy, how kids will be raised, etc. Mostly all of the same stuff you would discuss if you were to marry. I have several friends who decided to cohabit. Many have split. Poor planning and some making absolutely no effort. Or, they thought moving in together would fix their relationship. Surprise - it didn't. You can't change the lack of effort she's putting in. The only thing you can do is talk to her about your expectations - which I think should include at least a part-time job. If she can't work 10 to 15 hours a week, then she's demonstrating that she's not willing to work for what she wants. Is that someone you want to eventually marry? Someone who's going to lay back and expect you to pick up the slack? I can understand schooling, but c'mon. Considering her dependence, I'm going to guess it's undergrad. I dated someone like this. Eventually his job vanished (he got fired because he constantly called off of work). It was 'way too stressful' to go to 3 undergrad classes a week. Now he goes to one class a semester and doesn't work. Those 4 hours or so a week (including studying/writing papers/etc.) must leave him absolutely exhausted! The point being: if it's depression, you can try to help but ultimately she's got to pull herself out of that funk. You can only do so much. How long have you been dating, OP? I didn't catch it. Right. We did fail at laying all the cards on the table. We lived together for about a year and ultimately I put in most of the effort. I think she can be a very passive person at times, and the behavior from that would bug me inside and outside of the house. She failed at communicating problems or feelings with me and expected me to read her mind. I also failed because I would yell at her instead of talking to her when she wouldn't do something. It became that way because talking to her didn't work. While I don't think moving in will fix any relationship, given the right circumstance it can bring your closer and allow it to progress for the future. We were together for about 20 months. Edited October 20, 2011 by monkey00
musemaj11 Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 A lot of stupid men in this world. Ya'll are the reasons why there are countless self-entitled princesses.
zengirl Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 It sounds to me like your dynamic with your parents sound pretty similar to hers. She's ok with family helping her out and doing things on top of the financial aspect. She's from the suburbs and I'm from the city, so I feel like we have that clash that's preventing us from understanding each other. I've always made sure I was self-reliant because I know people can be unreliable and flakey. Well, I could've survived without my parents during grad school, if I had to, so I never saw myself as failing to be self-reliant. And, as I said, I supported myself through undergrad. However, yes, like her, I'm okay with family helping me out when I need it. If you have a loving family (who can afford it and are happy to do so), I cannot see why that'd ever be an issue. If you HAD to make sure you were self-reliant because you felt your family was unreliable and flaky and would never be there to help you, I can certainly understand that, but it's sad. People shouldn't go through life, feeling they have no safety net. I know many do. So in essence I do appreciate hard work and being fair/being a team player. On the other hand I feel the opposite from her, she does not appreciate hard work and would rather someone do something for her if they offer. So, I can certainly empathize with different viewpoints, I think. I do think that accepting money from family who offers it is fine if you need it for something like getting through school; no shame in that. If people can take loans out from the government, why can't they borrow on family capital which will likely be paid back over the years, either to parents when they need help later or future generations or whatnot. Family, to me, is a team that shares the wealth, to a degree. Family always takes care of family. Not a terribly American view these days, though, I guess. You say "being a team player." Well, a team supports each other. I don't know the attitude with which your GF approaches her family or their dynamic, but if they DID offer---and for undergrad, that's not that unusual---I don't see what's really wrong with it. Especially if she does take school seriously and work hard at that. I always worked, even in grad school, and I like people who know how to work too. But what I don't really dig is judging other people's family dynamics wholesale. If the parents are happy offering support, and she is happy receiving, what exactly is your problem with that? If it's a values clash, then decide whether your values are absolutely correct (which means walk away from this relationship) or whether hers could be an acceptable choice as well (which means work it out). Don't try to change hers. My point is that a lot of it depends on how you see family and your relationship with others. When you see it as a team, then taking what is offered, when you could use the assistance, is just kind of natural. Now, if she takes money from her parents and treats them like crap or manipulates them, that's gross, but if they really are offering and she seems to have a good relationship with them, I don't see the issue. As you say later, sounds like an ego issue you have with anyone accepting help.
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