Always being "On"

[SoMovinOn]

Maybe you have answered this before somewhere else, but I do not remember...but if you don't mind: why then are you guys still with your spouses if the A is primary and "stable", so to speak? If you are sure you both love each other and have such a great A that mimics a normal relationship...what is hindering you from cutting off these secondary people (your spouses)?

 

A number of things;

Finances

Housing market

Me - giving my STBXW time to get herself together and get out on her own

Her - fear of her abusive H

 

We'll get there.

[2sure]

Thought about the things mentioned by Spark and Tiger..all of us really... last night. About how we, as OW & just Women, gravitate to men we think represent something we want/need. Ultimately realizing that we dont need them (SWDINU4!) because that kind of fulfillment has to come from ourselves , from self respect and worth.

 

So anyway...I was thinking. You all know that before I remarried I was OW several times over to MM who were A-Types, professionally successful, seeming to have it all, and willing to share it. High profile, able to navigate the world. Eventually I realized that I also had it all and didnt need them. But I wanted my own guy.

 

So, I got one just like them. My exH the serial cheater.

 

Epiphany is Humbling.

 

I knew I came back for a reason.

[TigerCub]

Thought about the things mentioned by Spark and Tiger..all of us really... last night. About how we, as OW & just Women, gravitate to men we think represent something we want/need. Ultimately realizing that we dont need them (SWDINU4!) because that kind of fulfillment has to come from ourselves , from self respect and worth.

 

So anyway...I was thinking. You all know that before I remarried I was OW several times over to MM who were A-Types, professionally successful, seeming to have it all, and willing to share it. High profile, able to navigate the world. Eventually I realized that I also had it all and didnt need them. But I wanted my own guy.

 

So, I got one just like them. My exH the serial cheater.

It really is fascinating how we follow certain patterns without realizing them. But you left that guy and you worked it during the divorce. So I think it means that you did learn something after all

 

Epiphany is Humbling.

 

I knew I came back for a reason.

 

It sure is!

I think we have moments of clarity where we see things for what they are and we acknowledge what's important, but the moments of clarity pass so quickly.

 

It takes many of them to reach epiphany, but once we do, it sticks

That's what I think at least.

[MissBee]

A number of things;

Finances

Housing market

Me - giving my STBXW time to get herself together and get out on her own

Her - fear of her abusive H

 

We'll get there.

 

So does your wife think you have a happy marriage? Or will this all be a shock when you finally announce you're leaving?

 

I ask because I get that when one divorces you don't just up and do it on a whim for many reasons...but I imagine the ethical and simply logical idea is that you don't decide, for say, 3 years that you're definitely leaving and in all that time never bring it up or bring up that possibility so that this person can prepare...what do you mean by give her time to get out on her own? If she still believes you're happily married (you haven't answered this, but let's say) then what would she be preparing for?

 

Sooo if your AP doesn't leave...you won't leave either and will just continue the A for all eternity while being married to other people or if she breaks it off because her husband finds out and forces her to do so...you'll just continue to be married to your wife?

[SoMovinOn]

So does your wife think you have a happy marriage? Or will this all be a shock when you finally announce you're leaving?

 

My W thinks we are getting divorced. She thinks we have been split up, but living in the same house, for the past 19 months. She thinks I told her she can stay here for a couple of years to give her time to find a full time job, get herself together and deal with things we need to do in order to make the split as easy for both of us as possible. She also thinks I have done and continue to do everything possible to get her help for her depression and whatever other mental health issues she has, along with her severe alcoholism. As I told her at the time, I don't know what else to do to help her - she needs professional help.

 

There will be no shock when I leave. I'm staying here.

There will be no shock when she leaves. I know she's leaving and she knows she's leaving.

 

 

I ask because I get that when one divorces you don't just up and do it on a whim for many reasons...but I imagine the ethical and simply logical idea is that you don't decide, for say, 3 years that you're definitely leaving and in all that time never bring it up or bring up that possibility so that this person can prepare...

 

I think she had a pretty good clue it was coming after her multiple A's. I also think our 15 months of attempted reconciliation (by which I mean, I attempted, she did nothing) gave her a bit of a heads up that something was wrong. In the event that neither provided her with some amount of preparation, our discussion about splitting up, getting divorced, and me giving her time to get herself together before leaving was more than clear.

 

what do you mean by give her time to get out on her own? If she still believes you're happily married (you haven't answered this, but let's say) then what would she be preparing for?

 

How could you possibly imagine she and I would have had a discussion about her having time to get out on her own, yet somehow also imagine she has no idea we're splitting?

 

 

Sooo if your AP doesn't leave...you won't leave either and will just continue the A for all eternity while being married to other people or if she breaks it off because her husband finds out and forces her to do so...you'll just continue to be married to your wife?

 

If my AP doesn't leave, it has no impact on my D. I am getting D. If my AP didn't exist, I would still be getting D. AP didn't come into the picture until after my W and I had "split" - we were already done. Since then, W has been dating, I have been dating.

 

If my GF never leaves her H, and desires to continue an A with me, I will continue the A. If my GF chooses to end the A, for any reason, whether she leave her H or not, we will end the A, and I'll be ok with that.

[findingnemo]

I see what you're saying - but in all truth, the way I present myself (physical appearance) to xMM is the way I am pretty much all the time.

The boyfriend gets to see the no make up stuff because we actually spend nights together, and he sees me the next morning

 

But I was actually talking more about showing all sides, of personality or the way we behave.

 

hehe, I do see more in hindsight, that's for sure. But this particular thought was always in my mind - kind of "what if we really do end up together, can he really handle all of me? what would he think? would he like it all?"

 

that kinda stuff...

 

Hi Tiger,

 

During my A, I always believed that xMM didn't know the real me. It wasn't about my looks because we spent nights together. For me, it was about my personality. In our R which happened before he was married, I pretty much was myself. Later when the A began and as it went on, I hid a lot of my true thoughts and feelings from him. I wouldn't let him see me cry even though I cried every single time we parted. I also felt uncomfortable telling him my problems and basically said everything was ok. It was classic self-defence on my part. It felt weird telling him that I was lonely, horny or anything like that. I pretended to be a very strong person. Maybe I was just being kiddish but I always felt like he didn't know the real me since he was oblivious of what made me sad, angry, lonely, etc.

[TigerCub]

Hi Tiger,

 

During my A, I always believed that xMM didn't know the real me. It wasn't about my looks because we spent nights together. For me, it was about my personality. In our R which happened before he was married, I pretty much was myself. Later when the A began and as it went on, I hid a lot of my true thoughts and feelings from him. I wouldn't let him see me cry even though I cried every single time we parted. I also felt uncomfortable telling him my problems and basically said everything was ok. It was classic self-defence on my part. It felt weird telling him that I was lonely, horny or anything like that. I pretended to be a very strong person. Maybe I was just being kiddish but I always felt like he didn't know the real me since he was oblivious of what made me sad, angry, lonely, etc.

 

Hey FN,

 

Thanks for telling me about your experience.

Do you think that you were being strong in front of him to show him that you can handle the affair and that you're not "like most other women", kinda like you can **** like a man and not get caught up in emotions? Which I would assume would be a very prized quality from a mm's perspective.

 

I'm only asking because although I can do that with certain people I couldn't do it with someone I loved and xmm knew that about me, he knew that was the reason me and him never got to sleep together. And I didn't care if he thought that sucked or whatever.

 

It is weird, although I hid parts of me from him, I didn't hide my anger, my sadness my tears. Sure, I tried to be happier around him and not really let on, but I didn't care if I ended up crying. I didn't like it much, but I knew I couldn't help it cuz it hurt so bad.

[findingnemo]

Hey FN,

 

Thanks for telling me about your experience.

Do you think that you were being strong in front of him to show him that you can handle the affair and that you're not "like most other women", kinda like you can **** like a man and not get caught up in emotions? Which I would assume would be a very prized quality from a mm's perspective.

 

I'm only asking because although I can do that with certain people I couldn't do it with someone I loved and xmm knew that about me, he knew that was the reason me and him never got to sleep together. And I didn't care if he thought that sucked or whatever.

 

It is weird, although I hid parts of me from him, I didn't hide my anger, my sadness my tears. Sure, I tried to be happier around him and not really let on, but I didn't care if I ended up crying. I didn't like it much, but I knew I couldn't help it cuz it hurt so bad.

 

Good question. Well, we had a R for about a year prior to his M. He had a fiance but proposed to me and I said no believing I was too young (22 yrs old). Getting into an A with him was inevitable, or at least if felt like it because he was (and still is:() the man that I loved. But I hated being the mistress and was ambivalent about the whole thing.

 

My personality is to blame to some extent. In my early 20s, I was not very loving. I thought emoting was simple and ranged between love and hate, like and dislike. Maybe I'm abnormal but it was very balck and white then. I never actually thought of it as being more like a man. I knew from day one I loved him. I just didn't know how to discuss it or how to say anything more than "I love you". But at least I was open with him and he saw me happy and crazy and sad and mad, etc. It was only when we started having an A that all sorts of emotions starting cropping up. I was too scared to trust him, very angry that he'd married her, constantly weary that he'd up and leave because of an emergency or worried that the time we had was too little and very I'd be saying goodbye again. I was an emotional wreck and I frightened myself. I think I wanted him NOT to see that, not to see what I'd turned into. I didn't want to seem clingy although in my heart all I did was pine for him all day long. So I started hiding any weird emotions and was always just "happy".

 

Being the proud person I was, I'd be damned for him to think he had such control over me as to make me jealous, insecure, frightened, worried, you name it:sick:. Does that make any sense?

[Got it]

Goodness no, the man saw me in all different lights! Like most dating, in the beginning you try and make sure that everything is tip top but after awhile that gets to be too much. Since I saw him all the time it was way too much effort to be made up and looking my absolute best all the time; something had to give and I know he wasn't spending hours getting ready!

 

He saw me stressed, worried, angry, happy, sad, excited, and everything in between.

[TigerCub]

Good question. Well, we had a R for about a year prior to his M. He had a fiance but proposed to me and I said no believing I was too young (22 yrs old). Getting into an A with him was inevitable, or at least if felt like it because he was (and still is:() the man that I loved. But I hated being the mistress and was ambivalent about the whole thing.

 

My personality is to blame to some extent. In my early 20s, I was not very loving. I thought emoting was simple and ranged between love and hate, like and dislike. Maybe I'm abnormal but it was very balck and white then. I never actually thought of it as being more like a man. I knew from day one I loved him. I just didn't know how to discuss it or how to say anything more than "I love you". But at least I was open with him and he saw me happy and crazy and sad and mad, etc. It was only when we started having an A that all sorts of emotions starting cropping up. I was too scared to trust him, very angry that he'd married her, constantly weary that he'd up and leave because of an emergency or worried that the time we had was too little and very I'd be saying goodbye again. I was an emotional wreck and I frightened myself. I think I wanted him NOT to see that, not to see what I'd turned into. I didn't want to seem clingy although in my heart all I did was pine for him all day long. So I started hiding any weird emotions and was always just "happy".

 

Being the proud person I was, I'd be damned for him to think he had such control over me as to make me jealous, insecure, frightened, worried, you name it:sick:. Does that make any sense?

 

I totally get what you're saying FN. Thanks for explaining.

And keep your head up, there will be other loves and the next one will be way more worthy

[TigerCub]

Goodness no, the man saw me in all different lights! Like most dating, in the beginning you try and make sure that everything is tip top but after awhile that gets to be too much. Since I saw him all the time it was way too much effort to be made up and looking my absolute best all the time; something had to give and I know he wasn't spending hours getting ready!

 

He saw me stressed, worried, angry, happy, sad, excited, and everything in between.

 

Haha, Thanks Got it.

Its interesting to see how other people were in the A.

 

Also I think you pointed something interesting out too - you mentioned how you saw each other a lot, so yeah being "on" all the time and seeing each other often would be exhausting

 

I do think that its only natural that people get to see more sides of one another if they spend a lot of time together.

 

I didn't really spend waaay too much time with xMM, not so much that he would have really known me fully.

[Got it]

I was thinking of this thread and thought I would post a story about seeing each other in all of our wonderfulness.

 

We were doing some early spring cleaning and where cleaning up the horses' paddocks. I had been feeding roundbales all winter and horses do not eat all of it, they use it as a bed, bathroom, etc.

 

So to move all of it out so the spring grass could grow in that spot, we were using the tractor and pitchforks to move the wonderful smelling mix of old hay, manure, urine, and whatever else, into the bed of the truck and then pitching it into a remote corner of the property.

 

So trust me when I say we were lookin' hot covered in that mess and smelling great!

 

So there you go, my relationship with my (then)MM.

[Got it]

For us, and for me, the EMR wasn't any different than any other relationship I had been in. I didn't have any experiences with EMR so didn't know that they wouldn't follow the same set of rules. Sure there were a couple changes, but our EMR had lots of communication, open lines at almost all times unless either one of us was tied up in something (but I wasn't restricted in when I contacted him), saw each other as much as I would have with someone that was single, didn't "hide" each other, etc.

 

I wouldn't have been with him if I couldn't have approached it the same way as it wouldn't have fullfilled my needs. So when he did divorce the transition was pretty minor as we had gotten to know each other pretty well prior and were used to being around each other.

[Summer Breeze]

For us, and for me, the EMR wasn't any different than any other relationship I had been in. I didn't have any experiences with EMR so didn't know that they wouldn't follow the same set of rules. Sure there were a couple changes, but our EMR had lots of communication, open lines at almost all times unless either one of us was tied up in something (but I wasn't restricted in when I contacted him), saw each other as much as I would have with someone that was single, didn't "hide" each other, etc.

 

I wouldn't have been with him if I couldn't have approached it the same way as it wouldn't have fullfilled my needs. So when he did divorce the transition was pretty minor as we had gotten to know each other pretty well prior and were used to being around each other.

 

Bolded was true for me as well. I knew the rules would be different if I allowed it but I didn't. I don't doll up just for effect. If it's a casual night in I'm in jeans and a baggy sweater with no makeup. If I'm out for a night on the town I dress up for it - I don't care who it's with.

[NoIDidn't]

I've seen the always "on" type of affairs, and the "knight in shining armor" types of affairs play out.

 

They both tend to end up at that "so what do I need you for" moment sooner or later.

 

The always "on" seems to be trying to outdo the W in some way, or at least not repeat what they think are the W's mistakes in turning her H away. The KISA affairs usually have the MM seeing the OW at her worst most of the time but always trying to save her from her life while destroying his own. In KISA's the MM is always on, not the OW.

 

But in both, the person that's ON usually wonders what would happen to the R if they needed to be "off" at some point and it causes a panic. They figure they can't keep it up for the person that's off and needs them on. And then the passion starts to fade.

 

At least, that's what I've seen. I've dealt with committed guys that wanted a trophy and didn't like that I refused to be one for them. I've dealt with committed guys that wanted someone to save and that I wasn't vulnerable enough for them. There is a "type" of MP that winds up with their specific "type" of OP. Its very interesting to observe. Especially when one considers why the MP is looking for the "type" they pick.

[Mimolicious]

Hey,

 

When I was in the A, xMM only got to see me at my best. He never got to see my dorky side, me without makeup, etc...

 

And I felt even during the A, that if one day we "end up together", I kinda thought about how I would always have to be "on" to make sure that he's happy and he's getting what he likes.

 

I'm wondering was it just me that worried about that, or if that is a thought you guys have/had too?

 

Don't get me wrong, its not like what he saw wasn't me, but he didn't get to see all "sides" of me.

 

 

That must be exhausting too. This is when a lot of people say As are a "fantasy" because in many of them only the "good" side is "on".

[TigerCub]

I just wanted to thank everyone who responded. I much appreciated your experiences, your insight and your humor about it.

 

Affairs are a fantasy, and no one can maintain being "on" forever, and if being on is originating from fear of being cheated on like the spouse that "failed" the MP (as it was in my case), then really what the hell is healthy about all that??!

 

Its funny how much we see when we're out of things.

 

I am aware that there are many cases were the MP and AP felt so at ease with one another and the being "on" dilemma never even occurred and to that, I say at least you maintained some sense of realism, and that must at least make your situation more real than mine ever was.

 

Thanks everyone I learn so much reading and posting here

[Silly_Girl]

That must be exhausting too. This is when a lot of people say As are a "fantasy" because in many of them only the "good" side is "on".

 

And that can never work, not in your career, your relationship or your friendships. If you aren't yourself then it will begin to unravel at some point. Living authentically is so very important.

[findingnemo]

Reading all the posts reminded me of something one of my aunts once told me. She said that one should never ever fall in love with an ambassador. She explained something to me as follows:

 

When you meet a man you like, bear in mind that you are meeting an ambassador of that person ie. a representative and not the real man. He is on his best behavior trying to figure out what you like and don't like. The same thing you are basically doing. But if he's a player, he'll figure you out way before you do him. From then on, you'll never know the real him. The person who breaks the barrier and gets to the real person first has a very big advantage.

 

As an OW, xMM only got to know my representative. He never saw the sides of me that my H saw. Stbxh rather. For example, I'm not a morning person unless I've had 9 hours uninterrupted sleep. Waking me up by slamming doors or turning on the TV, or asking me stupid questions like "Where are my gym shirts, socks, vests, etc, turned me into a wicked shrew. xMM never got that. I was always happy. No matter how late I slept, I'd be up early, excited to start the day. Weird, isn't it? xMM never knew how grumpy I got with newborn feeding schedules which are crazy as you know. He never saw me sick all through the pregnancy, hating his cologne, complaining that he wasn't there enough, throwing his friends out for being loud, drunk and obnoxious on weekday night. To date he doesn't know how I freak out over bathroom issues, how I can't stand messy closets and how I hate sharing towels regardless of who it is. My stbxh on the other hand knows all this.

 

M truly proved to me that when you live with someone 24/7, inevitably, the representative act gets dropped leaving just you. Unless one is living with the WS for an extended period of time, isn't this really the infatuation/fantasy state of an A or even a R in which ambassadors abound?

[findingnemo]

I just wanted to add that in an A, the time constraint makes the AP very forgiving of things that normally would cause major problems in an R. An AP can't afford to hold a grudge for long lest the two day trip comes to an end without enjoying it. Whether you like it or not, you (AP) are kind of stuck with the WS for a limited period. This makes it easy to sweep things under the rug that the BS would be angry about for days under normal circumstances. Knowing my stbxh as I do, I'm sure that his OWs would have exactly the same reactions I had to some of his annoying habits. An R or M provides you the security to be you. Can an A do that? How? Perpetual dating as someone said earlier.

[Silly_Girl]

I just wanted to add that in an A, the time constraint makes the AP very forgiving of things that normally would cause major problems in an R. An AP can't afford to hold a grudge for long lest the two day trip comes to an end without enjoying it. Whether you like it or not, you (AP) are kind of stuck with the WS for a limited period. This makes it easy to sweep things under the rug that the BS would be angry about for days under normal circumstances. Knowing my stbxh as I do, I'm sure that his OWs would have exactly the same reactions I had to some of his annoying habits. An R or M provides you the security to be you. Can an A do that? How? Perpetual dating as someone said earlier.

 

I liked that though. I had been with a sulker previously; my boyfriend is a conflict avoider who was with a conflict avoider; my ex and I had big, big ol' rows. With my boyfriend and I we've reached a communication method we're really happy with. We face things pretty quick as they arise, but might not be able to devote the time to it (we work opposing hours quite often) so we reach a compromise, or agree a plan and have to leave it and come back. And we always do get to the bottom of things, much to his disappointment sometimes I'd guess . So I think you have a valid point about 'affairs make it hard to bear a grudge' but I like it, it happened to be a useful and comfortable aspect of the relationship dynamic. It works with our combined confronter/avoider approaches.

[OWoman]

M truly proved to me that when you live with someone 24/7, inevitably, the representative act gets dropped leaving just you. Unless one is living with the WS for an extended period of time, isn't this really the infatuation/fantasy state of an A or even a R in which ambassadors abound?

 

Sometimes, I'm sure. But there are other As which exists as islands of authenticity in a sea of role-playing for the WS - a little space where s/he can be him/herself, instead of having to "perform" as daddy / husband / breadwinner / nice guy / etc all the time.

 

TBH, I can't be arsed to put on an act with anyone. I'd far rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not. It must be terribly exhausting to be "on", even for short periods. I've also found that when one person acts authentically, others tend to drop their acts too and connect on an authentic level.

[Got it]

Yes I agree with OW and a little perplexed at the idea of being someone you are not for an extended period of time. While I understanding being on someone's best behavior at the very beginning stages of a relationship I would think at some point as you and the other person grow intimacy you want to show your true sides so that the person falls in love with the "real" you.

 

I guess I would see unless you are ashamed/embarassed of yourself being who you are is one of the heady feelings of falling in love and knowing that person is falling in love with you.

 

But I do follow my father's line of thinking that you don't marry someone until you see them in each of the four seasons, it does take time to get to know someone.

[Got it]

I just wanted to add that in an A, the time constraint makes the AP very forgiving of things that normally would cause major problems in an R. An AP can't afford to hold a grudge for long lest the two day trip comes to an end without enjoying it. Whether you like it or not, you (AP) are kind of stuck with the WS for a limited period. This makes it easy to sweep things under the rug that the BS would be angry about for days under normal circumstances. Knowing my stbxh as I do, I'm sure that his OWs would have exactly the same reactions I had to some of his annoying habits. An R or M provides you the security to be you. Can an A do that? How? Perpetual dating as someone said earlier.

 

Actually I took the opposite approach. I saw it that the man was beyond lucky to not only have a wife but a mistress as well and so he damn well better raise his bar. And for me to consider being his OW, well I better be spoiled rotten to agree to any limitations on a relationship. So, in my case, I probably expected more from him, definitely had more epic meltdowns, and had a much higher bar and shorter patience when we were OW/MM than now.

 

Sometimes I miss the OW days. . .

[seren]

As someone who has been in a relationship for 26 years, I still put on lipstick, perfume and do my hair when I know H is due home. Not to say he hasn't seen me at my worse and I he, but I also think that living together can sometimes result in getting too comfy and while I couldn't be 'on' all the time, it doesn't hurt to make an effort to look good.