Barrsitter Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 SBC - a good question for Circular. I would love to know why he doesn't end his marriage also. Not trying to be judgmental or critical here. I really want to understand this from a MM's point of view.
Author Choose Life Posted October 17, 2011 Author Posted October 17, 2011 I concur, very well said. I do now understand a little, but don't feel sorry enough, to look past he wasn't strong enough to leave. "Be careful with empathy, it is a dangerous (two sided) emotion. Use empathy to keep your from being vindictive --being vindictive serves no purpose. So this is a good use of empathy. But if taken too far, it can lead to feeling sorry for someone which weakens boundaries. Just because they get snagged up in the stream of life does not mean you have to get stuck with them. It is a trap and they will die there. Keep flowing with the stream of life --better things wait for you downstream. If he does not have the strength to break free, you don't want him anyway." Totally Agree SBC! Well said.
heartinlove Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 I think SBC explained it very well. I know for myself my feelings were everything but fake (MM w/ MW). I know I ended it, I walked away, and the only way I could walk away was to remove myself completely from the situation, become cold, become distant, and act like I didn't care. My only alternative was to remain vulnerable somehow and the issue there is that being vulnerable is what keeps us in the situation, keeps us attached and when we break-away we're fighting that attachment, trying to break it apart. In turn xMW became cold, distant herself towards me, can't say I really blame her, though she had started doing this before I walked away while she was flip-flopping. Honestly, it's been the most painful break-up I've ever experienced. I think there is a little part of all of us that wants to believe it meant less, or meant nothing to the AP, even though we seek validation to the contrary. By believing they can be so cold, callous, unloving, etc... we find a foothold for anger, distrust, disbelief that makes it easier for us to let go, or keep a distance. I in some ways this is important initially to get us to a better place. Over time though this gets replaced by reality, that it did mean something in the moment, that love doesn't conquer all and we accept that the other person really isn't a bad person but that they're trying to deal with a complicated situation as best as they can. The sucky thing about being an MP is dealing with the grief. When? Where? I have to wait until nobody is around, in my car, it sucks and I can't do what I used to do in college; go party with my friends and start something with someone else. Oh, I'll never have another A, I know that for sure. As usual Circular, I really resonate with your post and it really helps me to move forward. In one of my last conversations with MM he was very distant when telling me he had decided to stay in the marriage. I was very hurt and taken aback by the conversation. When we spoke again later he said he was just doing it that way to help both of us move on. That it is harder for him when he is feeling connected to me and all we share, and that it in that space he wants to be with me and it is more difficult to break away. I have so many mixed feelings now. On a purely intellectual level, I truly believe he made the right choice to stay in his marriage at this point. He needs to really give his all to see if it is truly over. If he didn't and left, I think he would regret that. On a heart level, I am just hurting and missing him so much and doing my best to move forward in life without him. And barsitter I also really related to your post. My mm also said that his heart was with me, yet his head said that he belonged with his wife. As you said, its very confusing to hear that, but its no longer mine to deal with. Also, I do think theres a difference leaving a marriage because youre in love with another versus divorcing because the marriage is done. In the former you are adding starting a new relationship inside so much hurt being caused to his famiy, his wife, and a total loss of self on the MM's part. He has to leave because the marriage is truly over and that clearly wasn't the case when the affair started or else he wouldn't have been married. Choose Life. You sound like you're doing really great in moving forward. Its not that the MM's feelings weren't real its just that he had a whole other life he had created that existed when he met you. It sounded like he truly had feelings about you, but just didn't want to end a very long marriage and that he loved his life with his family too. I know that doesn't make it easier, but that is the trouble with affairs. They dont end because the affair relationship has naturally ended, or that the love is gone, they end because the married partner doesn't want or know how to give up the life they already have with their wives and children. It helps to post here as there are so many of us recovering from these experiences. I am looking forward to being further away from all of this and to accepting my life without MM who was such a cherished part of my life.
Circular Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 A lot of these answers I've covered many times and can be found in my thread history, but I'll answer them here briefly. Circular - you are a MM who had an A with a MW? Correct? If so, may I please ask you some questions? What led you to having an A? xMW and I were friends for a few years before our EA started. We had good chemistry and a lot in common so it was easy for us to become friends, we worked together. Over time we continued to grow closer and closer, let our guard down more and more and fell for each other. Even though it led to being physical it was everything but that for a few years. Was it something that is lacking in your marriage? I think the reason I was OK with it slipping into an EA was because there is something missing from my M. Something I wasn't aware how deeply it was affecting me until things started moving full-forward in the A. As odd as it sounds it took the A for me to actually put my finger on the problem. Why didn't you leave your M? Firstly, I walked away from the A for a few reasons but mainly because I could see how she was struggling with it (flip-flopping) and because of her children which I truly don't want to disrupt their lives. In the end I decided to work on doing the right thing, stay in my M and work on fixing the challenges. Now that you are staying, what will you do with your M? Work on it? Yes What will you do with all the feelings for your xOMW? Learn to deal with them like I have been doing. Did your W know about your A? No Thanks.
Circular Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 As usual Circular, I really resonate with your post and it really helps me to move forward. In one of my last conversations with MM he was very distant when telling me he had decided to stay in the marriage. I was very hurt and taken aback by the conversation. When we spoke again later he said he was just doing it that way to help both of us move on. That it is harder for him when he is feeling connected to me and all we share, and that it in that space he wants to be with me and it is more difficult to break away. Yes, this is both how xmw and I have been towards each other. We both know that by sharing and talking like we used to that it will draw us closer again. I experienced that last year with her during a very short period of time, we both let out guards down and it was almost shocking how quickly we both fell back into our pattern with each other. It was at that point that I realized that trying to be friends might not ever work.
Barrsitter Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Circular, you said: "We both know that by sharing and talking like we used to that it will draw us closer again. I experienced that last year with her during a very short period of time, we both let out guards down and it was almost shocking how quickly we both fell back into our pattern with each other. It was at that point that I realized that trying to be friends might not ever work." Is it possible that the woman you are supposed to be with is your xMOW? And if she told you whe would leave her marriage for you, would you leave your W? Just trying to understand all this. Not trying to be judgmental.
Circular Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Circular, you said: "We both know that by sharing and talking like we used to that it will draw us closer again. I experienced that last year with her during a very short period of time, we both let out guards down and it was almost shocking how quickly we both fell back into our pattern with each other. It was at that point that I realized that trying to be friends might not ever work." Is it possible that the woman you are supposed to be with is your xMOW? And if she told you whe would leave her marriage for you, would you leave your W? Just trying to understand all this. Not trying to be judgmental. I don't take the question as being judgmental and even if it was I'd still answer it the best I could. I think the problem is more complicated then how it's being asked though. Firstly, I wouldn't want her to leave her marriage because of me. I'd want her to leave her marriage because it's the right thing to do for her H, for her kids, and for herself. Likewise I look at it the same way, I shouldn't leave my M just for her, I should make the decision to leave based on it being the right decision for me and my W. If she left her M based on that would it instigate me into leaving mine, it probably would play a factor no doubt. For me a huge factor is her children, I have no issue being a step-dad, etc... but I came from a divorced family and honestly I wouldn't want to put kids through that unless it somehow made their lives better. I'd want to be sure they were well provided for and connected to their family in a non-disruptive manner. That said, could xMOW be the woman I'm supposed to be with? Yes, that very well could be and in my heart its a very conflicted feeling. I do honestly believe though that the timing for both of us is wrong, maybe there will never be the 'right' timing. If I seem a bit evasive it's more so that I'm nearly 20 months post-A and I've been more and more focused on my M over that time. I'm a believer if things are meant to be then things will happen to pave the path to get there. It's complicated and all I can say is I'm doing the best to make things right for now.
SBC Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Likewise I look at it the same way, I shouldn't leave my M just for her, I should make the decision to leave based on it being the right decision for me and my W. If she left her M based on that would it instigate me into leaving mine, it probably would play a factor no doubt. . The two thoughts do not appear to go together.
Moanin Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 I love this post, and it describes, so well ,how I felt at times in my A. I'm out of my A now and also agree with concentrating on myself. I love it too....it also beautifully summed up my behavior during my A as well...
Circular Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 The two thoughts do not appear to go together. Sure they do. I said it would play a factor, I didn't say it would be the reason.
SBC Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Sure they do. I said it would play a factor, I didn't say it would be the reason. but it would be the reason --otherwise you would leave now. You are playing chicken with each other. You both want the other to move first. Trust issues?
Gentlegirl Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 This is YOUR definition because it is how it feels for you. But I don't think it is necessarily true. Anyone who thinks that after an affair that the MP just slides back into their married life painlessly and seamlessly is fooling themselves. In fact, I would bet it is WORSE for the MP, simply because they got a taste of freedom and then had to head back to "jail" Whereas the SP (once the get their head out of their a@@) is free to move onto bigger and better things. I amazes me that so many single OW/OM cannot see how they are in the better position than the MP. *shakes head* He said he thought the pain of going NC and breaking up was going to be worse for him. He had nobody to talk to about the A because everybody in his life knew his W. There wasn't a soul he could tell. He said it was going to be a long lonely path to reovery for him. Just another point of vew, GG
Author Choose Life Posted October 17, 2011 Author Posted October 17, 2011 I can totally relate to this. We both tried being friends, it was fine via text, FB, but as soon as we were around eachother it just fell into the old pattern. He basically told me, something just took over when he was around me, and just wanted to touch me, kiss me, just listen to me all day. I felt the same way, it was so easy around him, I just couldn't keep my guard up. In the end he just said enough was enough, and told me to cut him out of my life and he would do the same. So no texts, he blocked me on FB,no e-mail. I stayed away from the gym for 2 months, I was marathon training anyway! Then I went back, and I saw him, and I felt like I was back to square one. I see him now and again, but because we both act like we do, no conversation, but I have caught myself and him, just staring at each other! The feelings are there on both sides, I just think now, I know how painful it can be going down the friends route, so I keep my distance. I am now considering changing gyms altogether, as seeing him is just too painful for a few days after, until I find balance. Yes, this is both how xmw and I have been towards each other. We both know that by sharing and talking like we used to that it will draw us closer again. I experienced that last year with her during a very short period of time, we both let out guards down and it was almost shocking how quickly we both fell back into our pattern with each other. It was at that point that I realized that trying to be friends might not ever work.
SBC Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 He said he thought the pain of going NC and breaking up was going to be worse for him. He had nobody to talk to about the A because everybody in his life knew his W. There wasn't a soul he could tell. He said it was going to be a long lonely path to reovery for him. Just another point of vew, GG I wasnt trying to be mean to him or discount his feelings. But he said that he thought it is worse for the single person. I am only saying that is his perspective and offered a different one. I will agree, either way it sucks.
Barrsitter Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Circ - thanks. Certainly if there are children and your OMW's M is not that bad, then I suppose your OMW should stay where she is. I am wondering though, what is the reason you and she hooked up in the first place? There was obviously an attraction more than just sex. I guess I am asking a deeper question - if you two are meant to be together, are you blocking that by making excuses as to why your "should" stay in your own Ms? You sound like you would be a very committed step-dad and very concerned about her children seeing their biological dad. So that can't be the reason. Secondly, if the reason you stayed in your own M was to work on it, why did you need to have an A to find that out? What prevented you from working on your M before you had an A? Finally, I believe you said you didn't tell you W about your A. Any reason you didn't? Do you think you should now?
Circular Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 but it would be the reason --otherwise you would leave now. You are playing chicken with each other. You both want the other to move first. Trust issues? No, I said I'm working on my M now. I was asked to surmise what I might do based on a purely hypothetical question. It's a greatly simplified question without any context of the situation. I can only guess that if she left her H that I would take that under consideration like any human being might.
SBC Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) No, I said I'm working on my M now. I was asked to surmise what I might do based on a purely hypothetical question. It's a greatly simplified question without any context of the situation. I can only guess that if she left her H that I would take that under consideration like any human being might. Hypothetical? You said yourself (post #18) that you know for sure you will have another A. How can you be working on your M if you already know you are going to cheat on her again? Why not just leave now? Edited October 17, 2011 by SBC
Circular Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Circ - thanks. Certainly if there are children and your OMW's M is not that bad, then I suppose your OMW should stay where she is. I am wondering though, what is the reason you and she hooked up in the first place? There was obviously an attraction more than just sex. I guess I am asking a deeper question - if you two are meant to be together, are you blocking that by making excuses as to why your "should" stay in your own Ms? You sound like you would be a very committed step-dad and very concerned about her children seeing their biological dad. So that can't be the reason. There are some larger extenuating circumstances that I don't talk about because it's TMI. Secondly, if the reason you stayed in your own M was to work on it, why did you need to have an A to find that out? What prevented you from working on your M before you had an A? I don't remember saying I needed to have an A, I wasn't looking to have an A to begin with. xMW and I were good friends, we connected well with each other, over time that led us to a point where we were deeply attached to each other. This wasn't something that happened over a few months, it happened over a few years. During the A it became much clearer to me what things in my M were missing that xMW was clearly providing. I think up until that point I wasn't aware that the lack of that component was being so under-served. Finally, I believe you said you didn't tell you W about your A. Any reason you didn't? Do you think you should now? I feel it's important to protect xMWs kids from what happened and I still do.
Circular Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Hypothetical? You said yourself (post #18) that you know for sure you will have another A. How can you be working on your M if you already know you are going to cheat on her again? Why not just leave now? Go back and carefully read the last sentence of post #18, you mis-read it.
SBC Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Go back and carefully read the last sentence of post #18, you mis-read it. Holy crap! Please accept my apology!
Circular Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 I can totally relate to this. We both tried being friends, it was fine via text, FB, but as soon as we were around eachother it just fell into the old pattern. He basically told me, something just took over when he was around me, and just wanted to touch me, kiss me, just listen to me all day. I felt the same way, it was so easy around him, I just couldn't keep my guard up. In the end he just said enough was enough, and told me to cut him out of my life and he would do the same. So no texts, he blocked me on FB,no e-mail. I stayed away from the gym for 2 months, I was marathon training anyway! Then I went back, and I saw him, and I felt like I was back to square one. I see him now and again, but because we both act like we do, no conversation, but I have caught myself and him, just staring at each other! The feelings are there on both sides, I just think now, I know how painful it can be going down the friends route, so I keep my distance. I am now considering changing gyms altogether, as seeing him is just too painful for a few days after, until I find balance. Yes, this is very much how most people explain it. Matter of fact one thing I find funny is a lot of times I can be OK when I see her. It's about 24 hours later that it hits me like a bad flu.
Circular Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Holy crap! Please accept my apology! Happens, not a problem
East7 Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) Oh guys, please stop giving MPs excuses...it is not simple, they have staff, a life's work etc etc etc...Stop giving them excuses. No one stays where they don't want to be and if they stay it is because it is easier for them (like 2sure said) than to face changes. It is ALL ABOUT THEM, ALWAYS. And it takes a lot of courage to make a life change. An acquaintance of mine IRL, MM left his wife, the house and arranged shared custody to go to be with OW. He is only 32, she is 27. I mean people make choices, a choice always implies to give up on something. The question why an A hurts so much has been asked before and I have always posted that the main reason is because it is a double betrayal. Not only you are thrown under the bus but on top of that they choose their spouse over you which makes it double painful. Your ego takes a hard chock because you feel less worthy, you feel like you have been "tested" and at the end you weren't good enough for them to be with you. That's the most humiliating and painful feeling I have ever experienced. That's why I also understand the pain of a BS. It is like the 2 sides of the same coin : painful betrayal. Edited October 17, 2011 by East7
SBC Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Your ego takes a hard chock because you feel less worthy, you feel like you have been "tested" and at the end you weren't good enough for them to be with you. That's the most humiliating and painful feeling I have ever experienced. . I have never felt like that. And I object to your suggesting anyone wasn't good enough for anyone. The MP may have stayed because it was easier, or more appropriate to have stayed --but because the OP was not good enough? No. And if you feel that way, then East, you have some work on yourself to do, because NO ONE should have the power to make you feel that way.
Heart On Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 IMO...it's a "set up" for failure right out the gate because our INTENTIONS are different.They want temporary escape,we want "it all".I also think part of the reason it hurts so much is because they stay with the very women or men they used to justify cheating with us.It's beyond confusing and feels like the entire thing was a lie to get laid.At least in my situation.I made a CHOICE to leave my marriage and after my xMM wasting 2 years of my life leading me on to nowhere,toying with my emotions,getting me to trust his lies,being made to feel like I was "So Special" and then he stayed? But the ONLY reason he could make that "choice" was because she was clueless that she had been betrayed.I think thier expectation for us to stay thier dirty secret is what hurts more than the fact that we aren't with them and thier wives are.I mean really.Why would we be jealous of a spouse who was so utterly disrespected? I got over the pain imagining how much worse it would be had I been his wife and I felt lucky. I was beyond worth leaving his marriage over and ironically HE made me think that.Problem was,he wasn't worth me leaving mine over. DOH!
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