Ladies: If you asked a guy "when was the last time you dated?" and he said "never"...

October 16, 2011

I like the vagina.

me too! its a very nice place...

October 16, 2011

every guy does that

Yeah, but my point is that I am not some 'innocent' person, just because I haven't had sex.

That's like saying to a blind person, "You can't see the world." Well, perhaps they can't see it conventionally...but they can imagine it.

What if someone had said to Steve Jobs, "You can't put an entire music library of 2,000 songs into a handheld device, carry it around with you, and reload it whenever you want." I know people are putting Steve Jobs up on a pedestal, but my point is he didn't let the impossible stop him. He just did what he did, and created an iPod.

What if someone had told Einstein that time travel was not possible, or that there is no reality to his theory of relativity? What if someone had told Bell (forget his first name) that his theory of a telephone was ridiculous?

My point is, experience doesn't trump creativity. There are enough experienced guys and girls who suck in bed, and that's because they lack creativity to learn and grow. I, however, desire to learn about sex, even though I feel bizarre about being my age and having to learn it.

October 16, 2011

AHDN one thing I will warn you about.

An experienced chick is going to pick up on your "innocence" pretty quickly. She might be confused at first, and will probably ask what's up. Don't lie. That's a bad way to start, and once you start getting intimate with her... she WILL know you were lying.

They are gonna appreciate your honesty much more than you trying to cover it up like you're ashamed.

Why can't women just sort of ignore it? You know, pretend it doesn't exist? Or is inexperience that noticeable?

October 16, 2011

Why can't women just sort of ignore it? You know, pretend it doesn't exist? Or is inexperience that noticeable?

I guess if you're shaking in your boots if she takes your hand, she's gonna notice it.

October 16, 2011

You know you just need self-confidence and you'll be fine.

You need to really believe in what *you* have to offer and you need to feel like you're worthy of what someone else has to offer.

Regardless ---

Going to be blunt, take it or leave itttt.

Again, I can't speak for other females... but a large part of what drew me to my boyfriend was that he was celibate and inexperienced and had been for years and years.

He has extreme amounts of self-control and self-discipline and it really, really appeals to me.

With that said, if he was into pornography, I'd still probably be single

Because yes, many many many men do indulge in pornography (even the ones who have been terrible in bed... I'm sure it's led to some of them being fail as well :X) and I am currently incapable of resonating with that (this incompatibility has never stopped various types of men from pursuing me either ... gee, I wonder why that is...)

I know I could possibly receive a lot of flack for that, but what-evs, I'm harmless anyway . It just is what it is. The topic is a beaten corpse, but... part of the allure of an inexperienced man (for me) IS that perhaps he has better and stronger sexual values than most other men. It is an unusual but (ironically?) extremely sexy thing (in my eyes)...

Sure, maybe I just want to corrupt such rare men LoL (heh not really).

But alas.... I guess I would be turned off by the notion of an inexperienced man... if I looked at it as though ALL men would have sex if they could, and if they cannot, then it's probably because they're undesirable ---

When viewed that way, it IS unattractive ---

Who wants to be possibly settled for and or to be someone's desperate catch and or go through the trouble of dealing with someone's stark and sexual / emotional interpersonal immaturity?

People generally want to be "chosen", and yes, perhaps among many --- because that means they're even more desirable than the other numerous options and it makes them feel exceedingly more wonderful (among other things).

The difference between someone who is intentionally abstinent and someone who is by no choice of their own is HUGE though... with the former, one can still be under the guise that they've been chosen by a desirable person

Someone who is inexperienced could also be the opposite in the sense that they could have too high of standards and yes, not meet their own standards even... "standards" that typically fall under superficial ones........

Regardless, there is still an "empowering" feeling to be had by teaching / treating an inexperienced person --- but I don't think a strong long-term relationship can be commonly founded off of that --- not that many such men would probably even mind... some might even prefer it...

Anyway, that's just my two cents. If I was single and I did come upon an inexperienced man AND he viewed sex just as typically as most of the other ones do --- I would not personally give him a "romantic" chance. I would sooner give the more seemingly "experienced" man one, though in reality I've rejected both and much more of the latter

I've developed into a monogamous FREAK and pornography causes conflict within me (plus I was addicted to it as a teenager... it had the gorgeous effect of desensitizing me and really gobbling up my capacity for deep, sexual intimacy heh --- this was before I learned from my own promiscuous excursions mistakes too [i.e, during the time I made most of them]).

And that be the way it be...

There are plenty of females that could careless about pornography (and plenty that are into it themselves)... buuuut finding them among the ones that are particularly interested/intrigued by an inexperienced man may prove to be harder... especially if you're interested in remotely "physically attractive" ones...

In the end, your inexperience only has as much power as you give it.

October 16, 2011

Why can't women just sort of ignore it? You know, pretend it doesn't exist? Or is inexperience that noticeable?

It's not always noticeable, but sometimes it is. For example, if the guy is a bad kisser due to inexperience, it's impossible for the woman to ignore it. Because she's the one who has to deal with the bad kiss.

But if the guy is miraculously a good kisser despite inexperience, then the woman probably wouldn't notice or care that he's inexperienced. Because she's still having a good time.

October 16, 2011

I don't think watching porn necessarily makes a man less innocent or shows he doesn't have values.

That is, unless he watches an excessive amount in which case it's just creepy or if he's some deviant who wants to re-enact everything he sees on the videos.

But for a regular person, I think even relatively innocent virgins will still like porn. Unless they've never masturbated, which is highly unlikely with older virgins, they're basically playing porno in their head a lot of the time anyway.

I'm sure even some Mormons or those devout Christians who wait until marriage still sometimes watch porn (maybe they pray for forgiveness afterwards ) sometimes.

October 16, 2011

But alas.... I guess I would be turned off by the notion of an inexperienced man... if I looked at it as though ALL men would have sex if they could, and if they cannot, then it's probably because they're undesirable ---

When viewed that way, it IS unattractive ---

Who wants to be possibly settled for and or to be someone's desperate catch and or go through the trouble of dealing with someone's stark and sexual / emotional interpersonal immaturity?

People generally want to be "chosen", and yes, perhaps among many --- because that means they're even more desirable than the other numerous options and it makes them feel exceedingly more wonderful (among other things).

The difference between someone who is intentionally abstinent and someone who is by no choice of their own is HUGE though... with the former, one can still be under the guise that they've been chosen by a desirable person

Interesting. I can't speak for AHDN, but I only watch pornography because I'm not getting any real sex. If I were in a relationship I wouldn't have any desire to watch porn. Conversely, if I were to stop watching porn without being in a relationship I would probably go crazy from sexual frustration.

As for intentional vs unintentional abstinence: what would your advice be for a guy who is unintentionally abstinent? Does one pretend to be intentionally abstinent, or just sort of hope that someone sees us as the catch we really are?

I don't know. We go through this whole thing on every "virgin man" thread that gets started on here. It seems like a vicious circle to be caught up in. To get a girlfriend you have to have experience, but you can't get experience unless you've already had a girlfriend. It gets especially frustrating when you see and hear about the kind of guys women are dating and you think gee, of all the things that should be an issue (the fact that a guy might be a known cheater, or lazy, or whatever negative thing) sexual and relationship inexperience (involuntary) is really that high on the list for most women?

Perhaps Sanman's solution is truly the best one: get yourself successful and by the time you're 28-32 you can go date some younger girls, and that will solve the problem. Or perhaps, find someone who's even more desperate than you are and who wouldn't question you on inexperience.

Edited October 16, 2011 by fortyninethousand322

October 16, 2011

It's not always noticeable, but sometimes it is. For example, if the guy is a bad kisser due to inexperience, it's impossible for the woman to ignore it. Because she's the one who has to deal with the bad kiss.

But if the guy is miraculously a good kisser despite inexperience, then the woman probably wouldn't notice or care that he's inexperienced. Because she's still having a good time.

Yeah that I can see. But then, you could always just teach him how you want to be kissed without calling attention to the fact that he's inexperienced. Just pretend his past girlfriends never taught him correctly or whatever. Just don't make him self-conscious about his lack of dating history.

October 16, 2011

You can:

Find a prostitute.

Find a female version of you. AKA inexperienced virgin.

Lower your standards so much that you won't feel so self conscious.

Take anti-anxiety medication.

Have a brain transplant so you can have the swagger of an alpha male

Correction: brain REMOVAL.

October 16, 2011

What would be your reaction? Would you run a mile?

This is something that puts me off asking out girls, because I don't want to face that question. Along with the "when did you lose your virginity" and "when did you first kiss"

i think its sweet. and to be honest, ive never asked these dodgy questions to guys. theyve always asked me though, and ive always thought, jeez, how romantic . especially when theyve gone on to tell me theyve been around the block. the last guy i went on a date with actually told me how uncool it was to admit to only having slept with one person,, and i should probably have not told him (even though he asked)

just be confident in yourself, at the end of the day its no one elses business but your own.

October 16, 2011

no, he meant he had never kissed or had sex/relationship with a woman...draw your own conclusion

Not that I'm trying to give credence to your insinuation, but 3% of men by age 25 are still virgins, coincidentally approximately 3% of men are gay. This isn't to say every single 25 year old virgin is gay (because of margin of error and the fact that some gay men have probably slept with a woman before) but I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of older virgins were simply closeted homosexuals.

Again, not everyone and not Aharddaysnight, but more than I think people would like to admit.

October 16, 2011

Leave your fantasies out of this thread.

What do you mean? What fantasies? It's simple math.

October 16, 2011

What do you mean? What fantasies? It's simple math.

1.7% are loveshy, which means that:

- They are attracted to women

- They can't approach women out of fear

- They, therefore, are straight, and not gay.

I'd say that it's probably more like 4.7% of men are going without sex, or have no relationship experience.

Not to say that I'm proud of being within that 1.7%. But...it's simple math!

October 16, 2011

1.7% are loveshy, which means that:

- They are attracted to women
- They can't approach women out of fear
- They, therefore, are straight, and not gay.

I'd say that it's probably more like 4.7% of men are going without sex, or have no relationship experience.

Not to say that I'm proud of being within that 1.7%. But...it's simple math!

Look, I'm not saying you or anyone in this thread is gay. But, most University studies and CDC estimates say that 3% of men by age 25 have not had sexual intercourse with a female. That would include anyone who was gay who did not have sex with a female (some gay men probably have had sex with a woman before though for various reasons). Now it's also estimated that around 3% of men are homosexual. There are lower estimates (and higher ones as well) to be sure and certainly a margin of error, but most hover around 3%.

What I said was "I wouldn't be surprised" if a large number of men who were older virgins were also homosexual. Maybe 1/4 maybe 1/3 maybe 80% who knows. But the numbers seem to indicate that some older virgins are closeted homosexuals.

October 16, 2011

What do you mean? What fantasies? It's simple math.

What is simple math?! If I said 10% of people are homeless and 10% of people own 2 or more cars, would that mean that the homeless population owns more than 2 cars JUST because both % are coincidentally the same?

If the percentages of both virgins and gays were rather large, then yes, there would probably be some overlap. 3% is probably more coincidence than anything.

I'm sure there are PLENTY of gay people that lose their virginity before 25. If you take into account all the "love shy" people like TS, the ones who are celibate for some religious purpose, and those that simply don't want to, AND you take away from the gay population all the 25 year old non-virgins then the %s are probably much different.

October 16, 2011

What is simple math?! If I said 10% of people are homeless and 10% of people own 2 or more cars, would that mean that the homeless population owns more than 2 cars JUST because both % are coincidentally the same?

If the percentages of both virgins and gays were rather large, then yes, there would probably be some overlap. 3% is probably more coincidence than anything.

I'm sure there are PLENTY of gay people that lose their virginity before 25. If you take into account all the "love shy" people like TS, the ones who are celibate for some religious purpose, and those that simply don't want to, AND you take away from the gay population all the 25 year old non-virgins then the %s are probably much different.

Except "virginity" is being defined as someone who hasn't had sex with a female. Anyone who hasn't had intercourse with a woman is put in the "virgin" category for these studies.

So to use your example, if you said that 10% of people are undernourished and 10% of people were homeless I'd argue that a large proportion of those undernourished people were probably homeless. Not all of course but a lot.

October 16, 2011

Seriously. It would weird me out if someone asked me those questions, especially on the first few dates. It wouldn't even cross my mind to ask a guy about his first kiss or losing his virginity.

I don't think anyone will ask when you last dated either. It's considered impolite to ask about a person's dating history on the first few dates. Once a guy asked me (on the first date) when my last relationship was, and I thought that was rude and inappropriate. He'd also spent a good portion of the date talking about his exes and asking me about mine, so he was already in the category of "rude and inappropriate."

Sound like he had oatmeal in his head-lol

October 16, 2011

But the numbers seem to indicate that some older virgins are closeted homosexuals.

Yeah, and some married men are also closeted homosexuals.

What's your point? Because if you're trying to convince me, Ross, and fourtynine to go after men, you're wasting your time. None of us are homosexual.

October 16, 2011

Yeah, and some married men are also closeted homosexuals.

What's your point? Because if you're trying to convince me, Ross, and fourtynine to go after men, you're wasting your time. None of us are homosexual.

Not my goal man. Just saying that when you subtract the gay men, you end up with a very very small number of straight virgin men, the number gets even smaller when you factor in the number of them either a) in prison or b) intentionally abstaining for religious reasons. Because your numbers are so small women just aren't noticing you or they think y'all don't exist.

October 16, 2011

I never asked a guy these questions. But I did date a 37 year old man and I am pretty sure he didn't have much experience with women based on the things we talked about. I never outright asked him about other women because I didn't want to put him on the spot and it really wasn't important to know for our relationship. And he was a really nice guy that treated me well. It didn't work out for other reasons.

October 16, 2011

Yeah, and some married men are also closeted homosexuals.

What's your point? Because if you're trying to convince me, Ross, and fourtynine to go after men, you're wasting your time. None of us are homosexual.

And let me just add this: your relationship history is not anyone's business but your own. You don't have to disclose to anyone, even the girl you're dating. Women who hold that against you on just shallow, misguided, and morally bankrupt.

October 16, 2011

And let me just add this: your relationship history is not anyone's business but your own. You don't have to disclose to anyone, even the girl you're dating. Women who hold that against you on just shallow, misguided, and morally bankrupt.

So true, I agree

October 16, 2011

Yeah that I can see. But then, you could always just teach him how you want to be kissed without calling attention to the fact that he's inexperienced. Just pretend his past girlfriends never taught him correctly or whatever. Just don't make him self-conscious about his lack of dating history.

Oh, I would never call attention to the fact that he's inexperienced, even if I could tell. I wouldn't want to make him feel bad. Besides, I've kissed a few guys who did have experience, and their past girlfriends definitely didn't teach them how to kiss properly! It happens.

When I was younger, I didn't mind showing the guy how to improve his technique (I never said anything, I just used positive/negative reinforcement until he got it right). But now I'm at an age where I feel like guys should know the basics and I really don't feel like being a teacher anymore. If he's a bad kisser, I don't even care what the reason is. Whether it's because he's inexperienced or not, makes no difference to me. It's just hard for me to enjoy the experience, so I don't have much patience for it anymore.

October 16, 2011

What makes you think you're so great in bed? You might be mediocre for all you know.

Don't get defensive. I pay attention to my partner, so I can read his body language and pick up on his nonverbal cues, and adjust my technique accordingly. That's how I know he's enjoying it, because I'm paying attention to his reaction.

The reason some people (men and women) are bad in bed is because they're not paying attention to their partner. They're too caught up in their own feelings to notice their partner's reaction.

Of the guys I've been with, the most attentive ones were the most fun to be with. If you're mediocre and you don't know it, then you're not paying attention.

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Ladies: If you asked a guy "when was the last time you dated?" and he said "never"...

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