I'm Not Tall and White...

[Zed]

There is definitely a skewed bias against Asian men—that part is quite true. Your suspicions are right and have been talked about ad nausea on sites like yellowworld.org and modelminority.org as well as actual academic inquiries has been pushed out on the lopsided disparity of Asian women and men pairings with whites, for eons. Still white men are still the standard for which every other race models themselves as a means to social integration. White guys—if they are so inclined have an easier time choosing from their own women and that of other races compared to Blacks and Asians, even though they overwhelmingly prefer their own.

 

The only thing that may plague Asians, are the positive stereotypes of being financially stable, smart (which usually includes math and science), law abiding, and easy to get along with. By your own admission, you have all the criteria for success: high IQ, professional i.e. Lawyer, outgoing, social, and fun. You are not in the same universe as William Hung however you have also admitted that things usually came easy to you and you are now experiencing some kind of dissonance in dating in which your targets may use race to exclude you.

 

You exude all the positive stereotypes that are accorded Asians and you have the positive qualities of successful American white male. Therefore, it is not surprising that you compare yourself to your white counterparts who are getting the women you want, namely white and maybe Latinas who are most likely the ubiquitous “10.” Your reaction is not unfounded--however you have more agency in this matter then you give yourself credit for.

 

Personally I would rather be a handsome successful Asian male then a Black female or even male. D.C. is not the easiest city to pair up—but it does have a gender disparity—which gives males an advantage. Still as noted before, the west coast is supposed to be even easier for Asian males. Lastly, others have counseled that maybe you should step away from dating, deal with your personal discontent about your race, and then look again at dating when you move out west.

[USMCHokie]

Agreed! I've seen pictures, Hokie. You're very attractive. It's the attitude that is holding you back more than anything. Have you seen a therapist about this?

 

Well thanks for your kind words. And yes, I saw one very briefly about 8 months ago...didn't really do much for me as I spent most of the time wondering how the hell the guy could charge so much and be so stupid.

 

At the end of the day: Using your issues as a crutch is never sexy. Hokie is an attractive man, and plenty of women would go out with him. More would likely respond positively to him if he cut this self-hating B.S.

 

It's hard to truly empathize if you have never lived it...it's no surprise to me that those who recount their own experiences in this thread and understand where I'm coming from are Asian men or at least non-white. Do I want more than anything to rid myself of this? Of course. I wish I could just snap my fingers and magically be happy with my race and go date women. Unfortunately, when experiences constantly hammer home the fact that Asian men just aren't as sought after, it's hard to be happy with it; I can only accept it.

 

Have you ever met someone somewhere, and it doesn't even have to be a bar, where you're having a great conversation and laughing, and then your white friend joins in and suddenly you are invisible...? Or even start off as invisible to begin with...? Or having women online post specifically in their profiles that you automatically don't qualify because you're not white...? Or even better...have an Asian girl tell you to your face that she never dates Asians, but that you look good for an Asian...? Those are rhetorical questions...

Edited October 16, 2011 by USMCHokie

[USMCHokie]

There is definitely a skewed bias against Asian men—that part is quite true. Your suspicions are right and have been talked about ad nausea on sites like yellowworld.org and modelminority.org as well as actual academic inquiries has been pushed out on the lopsided disparity of Asian women and men pairings with whites, for eons. Still white men are still the standard for which every other race models themselves as a means to social integration. White guys—if they are so inclined have an easier time choosing from their own women and that of other races compared to Blacks and Asians, even though they overwhelmingly prefer their own.

 

The only thing that may plague Asians, are the positive stereotypes of being financially stable, smart (which usually includes math and science), law abiding, and easy to get along with. By your own admission, you have all the criteria for success: high IQ, professional i.e. Lawyer, outgoing, social, and fun. You are not in the same universe as William Hung however you have also admitted that things usually came easy to you and you are now experiencing some kind of dissonance in dating in which your targets may use race to exclude you.

 

You exude all the positive stereotypes that are accorded Asians and you have the positive qualities of successful American white male. Therefore, it is not surprising that you compare yourself to your white counterparts who are getting the women you want, namely white and maybe Latinas who are most likely the ubiquitous “10.” Your reaction is not unfounded--however you have more agency in this matter then you give yourself credit for.

 

Personally I would rather be a handsome successful Asian male then a Black female or even male. D.C. is not the easiest city to pair up—but it does have a gender disparity—which gives males an advantage. Still as noted before, the west coast is supposed to be even easier for Asian males. Lastly, others have counseled that maybe you should step away from dating, deal with your personal discontent about your race, and then look again at dating when you move out west.

 

Thanks for the post.

 

I have been toying with the idea of putting up a second online dating profile with the exact same written material and substituting in pictures of an average white guy, just to see what happens. I am willing to bet I'll get more views just from that.

[allina]

I agree with the person that said it has a lot to do with your location.

 

Your experience in a place like San Francisco would be much different.

 

And not to dismiss the negative stuff you've experienced but you are hot.

[Art_Critic]

Thanks for the post.

 

I have been toying with the idea of putting up a second online dating profile with the exact same written material and substituting in pictures of an average white guy, just to see what happens. I am willing to bet I'll get more views just from that.

 

I don't know.. I have seen your pictures.. you are certainly very normal looking and throw in your body your pretty hot..

No homo...

 

I think what ever is going on in your head is affecting you through out your dating life.. online and off.

 

I'll bet your profile online exudes the same low self worth that you show us here..

 

Dude...

 

You need to stop vilifying yourself and start to understand that you can make thinking change just by starting to believe in yourself..

Tell yourself every day how good of a person you are..

 

All you need is self confidence.. and stop blaming your race...

[USMCHokie]

I agree with the person that said it has a lot to do with your location.

 

Your experience in a place like San Francisco would be much different.

 

And not to dismiss the negative stuff you've experienced but you are hot.

 

Thanks...

 

But I guess I'll have to see it for myself when I move to California...still can't imagine such a universe though...

[USMCHokie]

You need to stop vilifying yourself and start to understand that you can make thinking change just by starting to believe in yourself..

Tell yourself every day how good of a person you are..

 

All you need is self confidence.. and stop blaming your race...

 

I tend to be an overly rational person, and and I need reasons for things. I can't think of any other reason other than race why I would be looked down upon by women for dating before they even take the chance to meet me, so I had never considered any other explanation. It was my go to, both reliable and rational...

[Zed]

Thanks for the post.

 

I have been toying with the idea of putting up a second online dating profile with the exact same written material and substituting in pictures of an average white guy, just to see what happens. I am willing to bet I'll get more views just from that.

 

 

No--your lived experience is not wrong. There is real evidence from Asian men who talk about these things who will back up your claims. Now assuming you use a picture in which the guy has similar traits of attractiveness as yourself—then your experiment would work in favor of the white guy. You probably saw this article, but Ok Cupid is one data set and they did a meta-analysis of users on their website and of course, White guys were often contacted the most compared to other non-white males.

 

White men get more responses. Whatever it is, white males just get more replies from almost every group. We were careful to preselect our data pool so that physical attractiveness (as measured by our site picture-rating utility) was roughly even across all the race/gender slices.

 

White women prefer white men to the exclusion of everyone else—and Asian and Hispanic women prefer them even more exclusively. These three types of women only respond well to white men.

 

More significantly, these groups’ reply rates to non-whites is terrible. Asian women write back non-white males at 21.9%, Hispanic women at 22.9%, and white women at 23.0%. It’s here where things get interesting, for white women in particular.

 

If you look at the match-by-race table before this one, the “should-look-like” one, you see that white women have an above-average compatibility with almost every group. Yet they only reply well to guys who look like them.

 

Men don’t write black women back. Or rather, they write them back far less often than they should. Black women reply the most, yet get by far the fewest replies. Essentially every race—including other blacks—singles them out for the cold shoulder.

 

The average reply rate of non-white males is 48.1%, while white guys’ is only 40.5%. Basically, they write back about 20% less often. It’s ironic that white guys are worst responders, because as we saw above they in turn get the most replies.

 

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back

This isn’t information to make you feel worse, but to illustrate that what you are dealing with is real even though that is just one example. However, as noted before you are not William Hung. You are light years ahead of many of your cohorts who are white and non-white alike. You do need to cultivate relationships with Asian American men who are able to navigate race with greater finesse. Or talk to other minority men and how they are able to deal with racism more efficiently. You can only do that in a place that has a history of advocacy and has a more cohesive Asian American or multi-cultural community and voice. Once you are able to process the problem of race, which in and of itself is not a logical manifestation, I think you will feel more comfortable and less maudlin, to those who would reject you based on race. Just be happy you are not black.

[USMCHokie]

No--your lived experience is not wrong. There is real evidence from Asian men who talk about these things who will back up your claims. Now assuming you use a picture in which the guy has similar traits of attractiveness as yourself—then your experiment would work in favor of the white guy. You probably saw this article, but Ok Cupid is one data set and they did a meta-analysis of users on their website and of course, White guys were often contacted the most compared to other non-white males.

 

This isn’t information to make you feel worse, but to illustrate that what you are dealing with is real even though that is just one example. However, as noted before you are not William Hung. You are light years ahead of many of your cohorts who are white and non-white alike. You do need to cultivate relationships with Asian American men who are able to navigate race with greater finesse. Or talk to other minority men and how they are able to deal with racism more efficiently. You can only do that in a place that has a history of advocacy and has a more cohesive Asian American or multi-cultural community and voice. Once you are able to process the problem of race, which in and of itself is not a logical manifestation, I think you will feel more comfortable and less maudlin, to those who would reject you based on race. Just be happy you are not black.

 

Yea, I saw that article when I first started using online dating. It seems to be congruent with my experiences thusfar...

 

And by the way, you have an excellent vocabulary.

[Star Gazer]

But I guess I'll have to see it for myself when I move to California...

 

Unfortunately, where you're going, it's going to be worse. Much worse. There isn't much diversity in 29 Palms or anywhere close.

[USMCHokie]

Unfortunately, where you're going, it's going to be worse. Much worse. There isn't much diversity in 29 Palms or anywhere close.

 

Great. Well hopefully I'll be deployed the entire time.

[Lobouspo]

USMC Hokie.....hey i have been following your threads on here for awhile....sorry if you have posted on here about this, but what happened with that girl you dated for a few months last spring?

[USMCHokie]

USMC Hokie.....hey i have been following your threads on here for awhile....sorry if you have posted on here about this, but what happened with that girl you dated for a few months last spring?

 

I ended it. It was a combination of factors...I was in an environment at work where I got to hear stories from my peers about all the women they took home every weekend, and I got jealous. I never got to experience that myself, so I felt like any relationship would have held me down. I wanted to experience what they made seem so easy...but it never happened for me, so I only became more bitter and resentful.

 

I also missed all the me time I used to have that I then had to spend with her. At the end of the day, I just wasn't that into her and thought I could "do better"...a terrible thing, but what's done is done...I think my interest was based in her interest in me...

[Nexus One]

Unfortunately, where you're going, it's going to be worse. Much worse. There isn't much diversity in 29 Palms or anywhere close.

 

Depends on what you mean by "close". LA is roughly a 1.5 hours drive from there. If he leaves early enough in the day he can spend all day in LA.

 

I ended it. It was a combination of factors...I was in an environment at work where I got to hear stories from my peers about all the women they took home every weekend, and I got jealous. I never got to experience that myself, so I felt like any relationship would have held me down. I wanted to experience what they made seem so easy...but it never happened for me, so I only became more bitter and resentful.

 

I also missed all the me time I used to have that I then had to spend with her. At the end of the day, I just wasn't that into her and thought I could "do better"...a terrible thing, but what's done is done...I think my interest was based in her interest in me...

 

From what I can remember this isn't the first time you've rejected a girl/woman. You put up the entire "woe is me, I'm just a Chinaman" routine, but when push comes to shove you're rejecting women.

 

I know this behavior from certain women who put up the broken wing routine. They wheel in men by doing the "woe is me, men treat me like dirt, I can't get a decent man" routine, but when push comes to shove they reject decent guy after decent guy.

 

Personally I'm skeptic of that kind of behavior. The problem is not so much that you can't wheel in women, it's that you're having a hard time getting the ones who are smoking hot in your opinion, because you see the competition who probably have better game walk away with those women. Then to rationalize it you say "must be because I'm Asian", yeah play that game.

 

You have to start with being honest with yourself first.

 

a) You HAVE been attracting women, but you've been rejecting them.

b) The ones you're actively hitting on get snatched before your eyes by the competition. The competition is seasoned, smoother, more confident and has better game overall. I know this, because I know the type of guys that have slept with hundreds of women. You're not that guy, you're struggling with yourself in this regard, because you're too civilized to play the game in a dirty way.

 

I wouldn't be surprised that if you'd drop the "woe is me, I'm just a Chinaman" routine AND if you stay off the alcohol AND if you drop your player aspirations, that you would have a shot with Star Gazer. And if you think I'm full of sh*t regarding that, then you're not reading between the lines of what she's saying. Well am I right or am I right SG?

 

Although I'm not sure how you guys would solve the distance between you two, but where there's a will, there's a way. So don't use that as an excuse.

 

And oh yeah, if you guys ever get together, then you better treat her right Hokie. I'll be watching you..."Chinaman".

 

Edited October 16, 2011 by Nexus One

[poorguy]

I didnt read this entire thread so please excuse. If your 5'8" its really not a big deal..that doesnt make you a Keebler elf...although they do make really good cookies

[USMCHokie]

Depends on what you mean by "close". LA is roughly a 1.5 hours drive from there. If he leaves early enough in the day he can spend all day in LA.

 

Heh, it's rotating between LA, Vegas, and San Diego every weekend...

 

From what I can remember this isn't the first time you've rejected a girl/woman. You put up the entire "woe is me, I'm just a Chinaman" routine, but when push comes to shove you're rejecting women.

 

I know this behavior from certain women who put up the broken wing routine. They wheel in men by doing the "woe is me, men treat me like dirt, I can't get a decent man" routine, but when push comes to shove they reject decent guy after decent guy.

 

Personally I'm skeptic of that kind of behavior. The problem is not so much that you can't wheel in women, it's that you're having a hard time getting the ones who are smoking hot in your opinion, because you see the competition who probably have better game walk away with those women. Then to rationalize it you say "must be because I'm Asian", yeah play that game.

 

You have to start with being honest with yourself first.

 

a) You HAVE been attracting women, but you've been rejecting them.

b) The ones you're actively hitting on get snatched before your eyes by the competition. The competition is seasoned, smoother, more confident and has better game overall. I know this, because I know the type of guys that have slept with hundreds of women. You're not that guy, you're struggling with yourself in this regard, because you're too civilized to play the game in a dirty way.

 

Wow, well of course I can always count on you and Star to call me out...you always have, and I thank you for staying so patient with me all this time...but you're right...I had never thought of it as a manipulative tactic like how you've described it...but you're right...thanks for the post...

 

I wouldn't be surprised that if you'd drop the "woe is me, I'm just a Chinaman" routine AND if you stay off the alcohol AND if you drop your player aspirations, that you would have a shot with Star Gazer. And if you think I'm full of sh*t regarding that, then you're not reading between the lines of what she's saying. Well am I right or am I right SG?

 

Although I'm not sure how you guys would solve the distance between you two, but where there's a will, there's a way. So don't use that as an excuse.

 

And oh yeah, if you guys ever get together, then you better treat her right Hokie. I'll be watching you..."Chinaman".

 

 

Heh, thanks for the vote of confidence, but I've blown any shot I'd ever had with her...I don't think there's anything between the lines or on the lines or under the lines...

[Tybalt]

You can add me to the list. I've said it before, you are very good looking, and open to input and desirous of growth, even if you seem stuck at times.

 

I've recently come to the conclusion that although I am open to dating men of my own race (it is about the connection and compatibility factors more than a specific skin tone), I am more frequently interested in asian/latin otherwise darker skinned men.

 

While to an extent I just like what I like looks-wise, I believe some of it for me is that I am first generation in the US myself (English). In addition, my white grandmother grew up in China and only came to the states at 17 to go to school. Thus, I was raised with a different background than many of my peers and I have often felt like I didn't quite fit in culturally. I'm interested in other cultures and other ways of doing things. I find men of color often have more varied cultural influences in their upbringing and more of a global perspective.

 

All other arguments aside, I agree that no matter who you are or what you look like, you must get to a place of owning it and accepting yourself fully. Only then can you accept other people. Do you think your perfectionism with yourself causes you to reject women who could be seriously good partners, but aren't up to your standards? If you are never up to your own standards, how can anyone else be?

[Star Gazer]

I wouldn't be surprised that if you'd drop the "woe is me, I'm just a Chinaman" routine AND if you stay off the alcohol AND if you drop your player aspirations, that you would have a shot with Star Gazer. And if you think I'm full of sh*t regarding that, then you're not reading between the lines of what she's saying. Well am I right or am I right SG?

 

As usual, you're right.

[blondike]

If you're short and Asian, that's not bad at all. There are some really hot guys, like do you know taylor lautner? He's Native American but they all look alike.

 

Anyway, he's short too and booooyyyyeee is he finneeee as hell. And Asian eyes can make you look sexy when you're not trying to do so.

 

So in short, you're not on the bad end of the stick.

[USMCHokie]

As usual, you're right.

 

[USMCHokie]

If you're short and Asian, that's not bad at all. There are some really hot guys, like do you know taylor lautner? He's Native American but they all look alike.

 

Anyway, he's short too and booooyyyyeee is he finneeee as hell. And Asian eyes can make you look sexy when you're not trying to do so.

 

So in short, you're not on the bad end of the stick.

 

I've never had an issue with my height...I only included it in my thread title because my friend who I was out with Friday night is like 6'4". And the two other girls in our group were both taller than me. And I was slightly intoxicated.

 

But height has never been a concern of mine. I'm about average.

[jerbear]

But I guess I'll have to see it for myself when I move to California...still can't imagine such a universe though...

 

When I was visiting CA; I had women checking me out. I felt like a piece of meat and yes I'm asian.

 

However I disagree about the area you are in, the women there are more into who you know, who you work for, and are very marriage minded. Many of my geeky and nerdy friends moved to your area and are now married. So drop the needy feelings and short feelings. Confidence is great. Even the taller women like confidence. Granted being 6 feet tall and 4 inches helps. There is nothing you can do about being short so get over it. I'm short by White & European standards (especially Dutch) but above average compared to Asians.

[USMCHokie]

You can add me to the list. I've said it before, you are very good looking, and open to input and desirous of growth, even if you seem stuck at times.

 

I've recently come to the conclusion that although I am open to dating men of my own race (it is about the connection and compatibility factors more than a specific skin tone), I am more frequently interested in asian/latin otherwise darker skinned men.

 

While to an extent I just like what I like looks-wise, I believe some of it for me is that I am first generation in the US myself (English). In addition, my white grandmother grew up in China and only came to the states at 17 to go to school. Thus, I was raised with a different background than many of my peers and I have often felt like I didn't quite fit in culturally. I'm interested in other cultures and other ways of doing things. I find men of color often have more varied cultural influences in their upbringing and more of a global perspective.

 

All other arguments aside, I agree that no matter who you are or what you look like, you must get to a place of owning it and accepting yourself fully. Only then can you accept other people. Do you think your perfectionism with yourself causes you to reject women who could be seriously good partners, but aren't up to your standards? If you are never up to your own standards, how can anyone else be?

 

Thanks.

 

I have never placed any sort of standard or expectation on any girl I've dated...it's just that more often than not, due to my painfully passive posture, girls have to be the aggressors with me. My interest ends up being based on their interest in me and not necessarily because I'm truly interested in them...

 

I meant to post about this in the thread regarding women doing the asking out...in my experience, it tends to end up with me never being all that interested in the end since I wasn't interested to begin with...I just say, eh, why not...

[USMCHokie]

I don't know..it feels like not having it easy (especially in things you can't help like race, looks, etc.) does something to you. It makes you bold, hungry, ambitious, exciting.. I can't progress if I always make excuses. So yeah, this my hand..and I'm going to play the hell out of it. You have to do it as well bud.

 

You're right Nate, and thanks for the post. I've gotten lazy and decided to take the easy way out...I'm honestly more afraid that I was wrong all this time than I am of being right and getting rejected if i tried...

[bigguy02]

Well it's better than a stay in jail card...

 

Jail sucks, I hate going there.