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Men are less shallow, deep down we all know this, and yet we don't get any credit for

danmorisson

By danmorisson
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OnyxSnowfall Established Member

OnyxSnowfall

Posted
Posted (edited)
The most obvious physical trait that is out person's control, that affects how attracted a woman is to a man, is height.

 

There is nothing a man can do to get taller except a very expensive and very painful surgery and even then the gains are minimal.

 

As for the deceptive part it's not that acceptable for a man to wear heels to increase his height so it has to be done subtly. I have lifts in my shoes that make me an inch and a half taller when versus going barefoot. But the problem with that is that the gains are minimal. It only gets me up to 5' 7.5 which is still very short.

 

Now I know some people are going to want to post after me and say that height isn't important and that they in fact no some short dude who has no problems getting women. Save it, they are the lucky ones. For every short guy that can get women, there are at least three more who can't.

 

Everybody knows that women greatly value height. Anybody who thinks otherwise just has to remember,

 

"Tall, dark and handsome."

 

Height is only a fraction of physical features but it certainly falls into a basic element that technology has yet to prevail over.

 

Height is my superficial bane, so I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it isn't important (even if there are many women who are indifferent to it). Dark and handsome need not apply though :p

 

Someone posted on here (I can't remember their user name) telling me I just have some mental hang-up in regards to it. And... after spending quite a deal of time reflecting over it :lmao:... that's pretty much what it boils down to. I don't know if that's the case with other women who "require" a mate that is quite a bit taller than them...

 

But pretty much everything I associate with tall AND short is through my perception. The results are brought about from some of my own short-comings --- for example, one major reason I've liked my partner to be taller is because it makes me feel more feminine --- being all around smaller than them translates into such in my head (which is, for better or worse, one of many reasons as to why I work to keep my weight on the lower scale of a healthy BMI too). I just feel sexier.

 

BUT I should feel sexy enough regardless. I know I shouldn't depend upon my mate to mirror some of my twisted ideas back to me :lmao: ... truth be, I actually have quite a lot of insecurities and I'd venture to guess many people do, and some of their "criteria" are bizarre manifestations of them... that probably SHOULDN'T be enabled / coddled / validated. But SHOULD probably be questioned more thoroughly and dealt with, not bandaged up.

 

I think it's something that can be "debunked", at least for me... admittedly I've tried getting over it years past, but I didn't question my feelings all too well... I rather seemed default to them. When I should have probably built up my own self-esteem more.

 

I can't go "test" it currently (and I don't mean by getting some poor guy potentially attached, but through more impersonal / objective approaches), because I'm unavailable and I've always been happy with my partner's height (he's 5'9"), but I've been perturbed at my silliness nonetheless :o Thanks LS :mad::bunny:

 

Although I still believe in "chemistry" --- but I tend to think that things in addition to or despite the vessel are interacting there :p

 

A single physical feature (that is indeed minuscule to an entire genome), cannot truly be at fault for a repulsion --- or rather, that it doesn't lie within a genetic one. Not even a few of them --- but, I think that those deterred by something like height, such as myself, are more responsible than the one they're being deterred from...

 

It certainly has nothing to do with how healthy / strong someone's genetics may or may not be --- I highly doubt it means my genes *know* they're simply incompatible with any man that is below a certain height :laugh: ---

 

And true genetic repulsion doesn't explain why close incest occurs either. I could go on and on about other things and reasons but... eh...

 

Ultimately I think my "hang-up" is psychological --- and that *I* and perhaps others have the issues there.

 

WHICH could translate into: "it's rather a blessing that they overlook me" :p

 

(granted we all likely have such issues in some form or another).

Edited by OnyxSnowfall
ptp Established Member

ptp

Posted
Posted
The most obvious physical trait that is out person's control, that affects how attracted a woman is to a man, is height.

 

Strongly disagree.

 

The most obvious physical trait that is out of a person's control is facial features. It is worse to have an unattractive face than being short.

 

I see plenty of short guys with 5' tall cute girls... a short guy you can still find plenty of shorter cute girls.

 

If you are butt ugly, it doesn't matter how tall you are.

OnyxSnowfall Established Member

OnyxSnowfall

Posted
Posted
Strongly disagree.

 

The most obvious physical trait that is out of a person's control is facial features. It is worse to have an unattractive face than being short.

 

I see plenty of short guys with 5' tall cute girls... a short guy you can still find plenty of shorter cute girls.

 

If you are butt ugly, it doesn't matter how tall you are.

 

There are many surgeries available that can alter a person's facial features.

 

...

 

Not only surgeries, but practices and products.

ptp Established Member

ptp

Posted
Posted
There are many surgeries available that can alter a person's facial features.

 

...

 

Not only surgeries, but practices and products.

 

Well we are talking about normal people and normal people don't have expensive plastic surgeries.

 

What practices and products? Are there practices and products that can someone's nose smaller or face more symmetrical or give a someone a square jaw?

 

I don't think so.

OnyxSnowfall Established Member

OnyxSnowfall

Posted
Posted (edited)
Well we are talking about normal people and normal people don't have expensive plastic surgeries.

 

What practices and products? Are there practices and products that can someone's nose smaller or face more symmetrical or give a someone a square jaw?

 

I don't think so.

 

Normal people?

 

Wtf?

 

MILLIONS of people undergo cosmetic surgeries each year --- most people are already in debt anyway. "Cosmetic surgeries" are certainly not just for the wealthy NOR the "old" --- Two of my class mates in high school had breast implants and another one had their leg hair and arm pit hair removed through laser surgery :laugh: .... and my broke ass cousin had a body contour, somehowwww she managed to "get it done"... even though she could barely cover her bills.

 

It's about priorities, ultimately.

 

There are programs (credit / interest based) that help "normal" people cover the expenses, among other methods (medical loans etc).

 

Regardless, to answer your question of a practice:

 

"Make-up" is one that comes to mind --- one can play with shading / toning / coloring and create "illusions" of making things (like a nose) appear bigger or smaller. And they ARE effective --- just do a simple search and you'll come upon several more "methods" heh.

Edited by OnyxSnowfall
somedude81 Established Member

somedude81

Posted
Posted

Thanks for being so open OnyxSnowfall. The reasons why height is so important to women varies as much as women do, but it is pretty universal.

 

It is only a fraction of physical features, but it sucks how important it is.

 

I would absolutely love the chance to do my life over but just have me end up being 5'10 instead of 5'6. I'm sure my life would have turned out very differently just by changing that one variable.

Strongly disagree.

 

The most obvious physical trait that is out of a person's control is facial features.

Actually facial features can be manipulated by gaining or losing weight. Facial hair can also have a great impact on appearance.

 

Even still, it's rare for a guy to actually have an ugly face.

OnyxSnowfall Established Member

OnyxSnowfall

Posted
Posted
Thanks for being so open OnyxSnowfall. The reasons why height is so important to women varies as much as women do, but it is pretty universal.

 

It is only a fraction of physical features, but it sucks how important it is.

 

I would absolutely love the chance to do my life over but just have me end up being 5'10 instead of 5'6. I'm sure my life would have turned out very differently just by changing that one variable.

 

It would have been different for you (but changing another variable would have made other things different for you too) and then, you wouldn't be you. If you don't like *you*, maybe one thing you need to learn is how to...

 

If you can learn to like you, it will offer you so much more than anyone else who can like you ever can...

 

Actually facial features can be manipulated by gaining or losing weight. Facial hair can also have a great impact on appearance.

 

Mm agreed. Hair is important (even in regards to a female... eyebrow shaping is a pretty big fixation).

 

(It's also relatively inexpensive to have things like protruding facial moles / warts removed too)

ptp Established Member

ptp

Posted
Posted
Normal people?

 

Wtf?

 

MILLIONS of people undergo cosmetic surgeries each year --- most people are already in debt anyway. "Cosmetic surgeries" are certainly not just for the wealthy NOR the "old" --- Two of my class mates in high school had breast implants and another one had their leg hair and arm pit hair removed through laser surgery :laugh: .... and my broke ass cousin had a body contour, somehowwww she managed to "get it done"... even though she could barely cover her bills.

 

It's about priorities, ultimately.

 

There are programs (credit / interest based) that help "normal" people cover the expenses, among other methods (medical loans etc).

 

Regardless, to answer your question of a practice:

 

"Make-up" is one that comes to mind --- one can play with shading / toning / coloring and create "illusions" of making things (like a nose) appear bigger or smaller. And they ARE effective --- just do a simple search and you'll come upon several more "methods" heh.

 

Maybe it is different where you live, but here in the heartland of the US no guys wear make up (exception for my gay friend). :laugh:.

 

I am in my late 20s and I have met 0 guys who have had any sort of plastic surgery. I am racking my brain trying to thinking of females that have had plastic surgery and I can't think of 1. I am sure I have met some random female acquaintance who has had breast implants but it is rare.

 

Normal people do not have plastic surgery that is why there are so few plastic surgeons relative to other surgeons.

 

Also having a boob job is significantly more common than face altering surgery which would require restructuring facial bones. 2 different levels of complexity.

OnyxSnowfall Established Member

OnyxSnowfall

Posted
Posted (edited)
Maybe it is different where you live, but here in the heartland of the US no guys wear make up (exception for my gay friend). :laugh:.

 

I am in my late 20s and I have met 0 guys who have had any sort of plastic surgery. I am racking my brain trying to thinking of females that have had plastic surgery and I can't think of 1. I am sure I have met some random female acquaintance who has had breast implants but it is rare.

 

Normal people do not have plastic surgery that is why there are so few plastic surgeons relative to other surgeons.

 

Also having a boob job is significantly more common than face altering surgery which would require restructuring facial bones. 2 different levels of complexity.

 

Breast implants can be even more expensive than facial alterations (lip augmentation, for one --- granted cosmetic surgeons can charge within a very wide range of one another too).

 

I didn't know that men were into cosmetic surgeries until recently --- as in, the last two years. But it *is* becoming more common among males, although they are less likely to own up to it :lmao:

 

I am sure that location plays a part, but if you've done any research... overall cosmetic surgeries (of all kinds, yes, even gender "changes") are quite common. And you have to take into account that many people probably are not airing the work that's been done :p

Edited by OnyxSnowfall
somedude81 Established Member

somedude81

Posted
Posted
It would have been different for you (but changing another variable would have made other things different for you too) and then, you wouldn't be you. If you don't like *you*, maybe one thing you need to learn is how to...

 

If you can learn to like you, it will offer you so much more than anyone else who can like you ever can...

Yeah, other variable would change as well. I'd be more confident, more secure of myself, with a bigger body I'd be able to put on muscle more easily, I'd also have been better at sports.

 

I wouldn't be me? I don't have a problem with that at all.

 

I can't imagine how different my life would be if I actually dated in my twenties. And I have no doubt that I would of if I was taller. I'll never know how many girls wrote me off just because I was short, intentionally or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was a significant number of them

OnyxSnowfall Established Member

OnyxSnowfall

Posted
Posted
I wouldn't be me? I don't have a problem with that at all.

 

That's kind of my point :(

 

You don't mind, because you probably don't really like yourself.

 

Right now, you can't change what you were handed there and you can't change what's already transpired. The only thing you can change is your outlook towards it... and then your feelings about it will also change as a result.

 

No one can do that for you... they can perhaps help you, but that's about it...

 

It seems simple for me to tell you that if you do sift through what you begrudge and come to terms with it, that it will change your current issues and you will in fact increase your odds at "having what you desire" (if it still even pertains at that point)

 

but I know I'm not the one that has to put in all the effort to so... I'll just end this note with commiserating with you that life indeed is not about fairness and that it can in fact suck.

somedude81 Established Member

somedude81

Posted
Posted
Why would you even want to be a with a women who judge you based solely on your height? These aren't the types of women I'd want or any self respecting man would want.

Because I don't think it's their fault. It's genetic programming that they can't do anything about. Women have this f'd up need for their man to be tall. It's just how things are.

 

There really isn't any point in being mad towards women. I'll just direct my hate towards God.

OnyxSnowfall Established Member

OnyxSnowfall

Posted
Posted (edited)
Because I don't think it's their fault. It's genetic programming that they can't do anything about. Women have this f'd up need for their man to be tall. It's just how things are.

 

There really isn't any point in being mad towards women. I'll just direct my hate towards God.

 

Lol, I don't know --- there are too many women who are attracted to short men (even if they are the minority... there are billions of women, even one third of that amounts to plenty).

 

I don't think it's genetic... if it is, a large portion of women are "genetically defective". Hmm...

Edited by OnyxSnowfall
ptp Established Member

ptp

Posted
Posted
Breast implants can be even more expensive than facial alterations (lip augmentation, for one --- granted cosmetic surgeons can charge within a very wide range of one another too).

 

I didn't know that men were into cosmetic surgeries until recently --- as in, the last two years. But it *is* becoming more common among males, although they are less likely to own up to it :lmao:

 

I am sure that location plays a part, but if you've done any research... overall cosmetic surgeries (of all kinds, yes, even gender "changes") are quite common. And you have to take into account that many people probably are not airing the work that's been done :p

 

Again, injecting collagen into a lip or boob jobs is way different from altering facial bones to make someone's face more symmetrical or to give a guy a square jaw. 2 different levels of complexity.

 

I have done the research, and no face altering surgeries are not common.

OnyxSnowfall Established Member

OnyxSnowfall

Posted
Posted

Addtionally.

 

Even if there are genes floating around that have infected several females, ones that are specifically appalled by short height in men, it doesn't explain how such females (Like Beachgirl) can suddenly overcome them.

 

Did those genes just vanish? Did something in the environment mutate them?

 

Again, injecting collagen into a lip or boob jobs is way different from altering facial bones to make someone's face more symmetrical or to give a guy a square jaw. 2 different levels of complexity.

 

I have done the research, and no face altering surgeries are not common.

 

I guess it's become so sloppy I have to go over this.

 

ptp: The most obvious physical trait that is out of a person's control is facial features.

 

onyx: There are many surgeries available that can alter a person's facial features.

 

...

 

Not only surgeries, but practices and products.

 

ptp: Well we are talking about normal people and normal people don't have expensive plastic surgeries.

 

__________________________________

 

In conclusion.

 

FACIAL features can be changed in several ways.

 

SOME facial features are more expensive to change than other ones -

 

The more expensive facial procedures may be less commonly sought than the less expensive ones --- but that does not mean that the former rarely occurs nor that the latter is uncommon.

 

I've only known a handful of people who have undergone several facial procedures --- namely much older women --- regardless...

 

The point is that someone can change their facial features relatively easily. Height however, is not so --- even *if* one has mounds and mounds of money.

AHardDaysNight Established Member

AHardDaysNight

Posted
Posted

Well, I am average height, and it doesn't do me any favors. I am also average looking.

 

I think social skills and high self esteem are important, which is what I've been saying over and over in these threads...

Cracker Jack Established Member

Cracker Jack

Posted
Posted

Onyx: Most believe it's the aging that changes their perception on height. A few women on here even said they became less focused on the height and more focused on other things as they got older.

 

I know a few women IRL who wouldn't give a short man a chance in their past, but became more open to the idea as they got older. They probably still desire a tall man deep down, but it just isn't a dealbreaker to them anymore. I also know a few who are attracted to short men, but only want to have children with tall men because it'd give their kids more of a "fair" chance.

ptp Established Member

ptp

Posted
Posted

Well here is the deal Onxy,

 

I said if a guy is butt ugly not much he can do about it. Injecting collagen into his lips is just going to make him an ugly dude with fat lips.

 

The only surgeries that would help him gain facial symmetry, a more defined jawline or a square jaw are not only expensive, they are rare. Similarly there are bone lengthening surgeries that can make a guy taller but they too are rare.

 

Thus for all practical purposes a normal guy can't get those surgeries done and is stuck with the face he was born with.

 

Here is the rub, if a guy like you suggest:

one has mounds and mounds of money
it doesn't matter how ugly or short he is. ;)
Thieves Established Member

Thieves

Posted
Posted
But pretty much everything I associate with tall AND short is through my perception. The results are brought about from some of my own short-comings --- for example, one major reason I've liked my partner to be taller is because it makes me feel more feminine --- being all around smaller than them translates into such in my head (which is, for better or worse, one of many reasons as to why I work to keep my weight on the lower scale of a healthy BMI too). I just feel sexier.

 

Exactly. How does a person really know whether they're choosing certain things in another person simply because of actual biological impulses driving them, rather than because of how it makes them feel, or how it indirectly impacts how they see themselves?

 

How do we know the man who likes large boobs likes them because it was built into his wiring as a man to seek out a woman with a fairly endowed chest due to purely biological reasons (good sign of fertility, ability to provide sufficiently for the female's young, etc., grade school biology), or if he simply likes them because he, oh, grew up for a long time in a house full of women who all happened to be well-endowed, when he was very young he begins to link this physique with familiarity and a form of comfort, and begins to look for this in his own mates when he grows older and leaves the home?

 

This is some form of conditioning, rather than just biological reasons, as the circumstances could've been changed (he grew up in a house full of women with fairly "modest" chests) - and he likely would've began seeking out women with a similar physique to that. The impact of these circumstances, and there can be many, can even become mostly unconscious because it's so learned and becomes ingrained that we don't immediately think to take it into account.

 

It's just something to take into consideration, as it can be difficult to distinguish in human behavior where that line of biology (the body) starts and the line of psychology (the mind) begins.

 

That's why in the academic world, they call them the three P's: Psychology (mind), Physiology (body), and Philosophy (soul). Mind, Body, and Soul. They are closely related, at times overlapping with one another.

alphamale Established Member

alphamale

Posted
Posted
Guys care less about looks! Heck a guy will bang you just because you are a woman!

I don't know about you but I need a good looking skinny woman to get and keep me aroused sexually...

The Tiger Member

The Tiger

Posted
Posted
Yeah, other variable would change as well. I'd be more confident, more secure of myself, with a bigger body I'd be able to put on muscle more easily, I'd also have been better at sports.

 

I wouldn't be me? I don't have a problem with that at all.

 

I can't imagine how different my life would be if I actually dated in my twenties. And I have no doubt that I would of if I was taller. I'll never know how many girls wrote me off just because I was short, intentionally or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was a significant number of them

 

I don't think this is necessarily true. Height does not actually affect how fast or easily you pack on muscle, but with shorter guys less muscle actually looks bigger because it's on a smaller frame.

 

Being Mexican American, I've seen MANY short guys (I'm 5'8" and have never had insecurity about my height) who are well built, athletic, confident, and good at meeting women.

 

5'6" isn't even THAT short. I can name you dozens of famous actors, athletes, etc. that are around that height and they don't look that short and they certainly don't lack confidence.

 

If anything it's your insecurity about your height that prevented you from appearing confident and likeable to girls. I've seen many people on here complain that they see hot girls with fat, hideous men all the time. If those men can get women, then anyone can. It's all about how you carry yourself.

 

Tall women could be said to be in much the same predicament. I'd much rather date a 5'11 girl who makes me look like a dwarf and who I can't even sweep off her feet but is kind and smart or whatever over some bitchy, petite girl.

 

I doubt a significant number of girls wrote you off for being short. But you said it yourself, you'll never know. You didn't even try. If anything, they wrote you off because you have not faith in yourself.

The Tiger Member

The Tiger

Posted
Posted
Exactly. How does a person really know whether they're choosing certain things in another person simply because of actual biological impulses driving them, rather than because of how it makes them feel, or how it indirectly impacts how they see themselves?

 

How do we know the man who likes large boobs likes them because it was built into his wiring as a man to seek out a woman with a fairly endowed chest due to purely biological reasons (good sign of fertility, ability to provide sufficiently for the female's young, etc., grade school biology), or if he simply likes them because he, oh, grew up for a long time in a house full of women who all happened to be well-endowed, when he was very young he begins to link this physique with familiarity and a form of comfort, and begins to look for this in his own mates when he grows older and leaves the home?

 

This is some form of conditioning, rather than just biological reasons, as the circumstances could've been changed (he grew up in a house full of women with fairly "modest" chests) - and he likely would've began seeking out women with a similar physique to that. The impact of these circumstances, and there can be many, can even become mostly unconscious because it's so learned and becomes ingrained that we don't immediately think to take it into account.

 

It's just something to take into consideration, as it can be difficult to distinguish in human behavior where that line of biology (the body) starts and the line of psychology (the mind) begins.

 

That's why in the academic world, they call them the three P's: Psychology (mind), Physiology (body), and Philosophy (soul). Mind, Body, and Soul. They are closely related, at times overlapping with one another.

 

This post is so dumb it makes my brain hurt.

alphamale Established Member

alphamale

Posted
Posted
5'6" isn't even THAT short. I can name you dozens of famous actors, athletes, etc. that are around that height and they don't look that short and they certainly don't lack confidence.

yea, tom cruise doesn't look short in any of his movies cause he's usually standing on a box

ptp Established Member

ptp

Posted
Posted

5'6" isn't even THAT short. I can name you dozens of famous actors, athletes, etc. that are around that height and they don't look that short and they certainly don't lack confidence.

 

yea, tom cruise doesn't look short in any of his movies cause he's usually standing on a box

 

 

Agree completely, Tom Cruise usually also wears lifts and the actors they surround him with in his movies are also short.

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