Men are less shallow, deep down we all know this, and yet we don't get any credit for

October 13, 2011

Shallow means lacking in depth.

Will bang anything that moves = shallow.

However, luckily, not ALL men are that shallow. Those that will bang anything are absolutely shallow, as in "lacking in depth."

Shallow does NOT mean picky. In fact, the two are closer to opposites than synonyms.

Shallow can certainly mean picky --- it's very narrow, there's not much to it at all. Where is the depth in "I will only sleep with extremely aesthetic people... and I don't care if they're hollow inside" --- or, "good looks are what matters the most" when it's something that is fleeting and quite frankly doesn't truly have much to offer etc?

ptp --- How is it not strange? Either way, people are like chameleons and I can't help but find it "strange", if not altogether unsightly (depending). What's "real"? Hmm.

October 13, 2011

Most women are just selfish. Again, not hating just telling the truth. The look at ugly men as if these ugly men were monsters but the truth is, most of these ugly men would instinctively protect these women if these women were in any sort of danger. I want to protect them. I might never get a date, I don't give a ****, but that instinctive urge to protect them never goes away. They should think about these things before hating

October 13, 2011

Shallow can certainly mean picky --- it's very narrow, there's not much to it at all. Where is the depth in "I will only sleep with extremely aesthetic people... and I don't care if they're hollow inside" --- or, "good looks are what matters the most" when it's something that is fleeting and quite frankly doesn't truly have much to offer etc?

ptp --- How is it not strange? Either way, people are like chameleons and I can't help but find it "strange", if not altogether unsightly (depending). What's "real"? Hmm.

Again, in that, it's not that the word "shallow" means "picky." It's simply that one might judge the criteria itself as being shallow, as in lacking in depth. The problem/shallowness isn't that the person cares about looks, for example, but rather that they DON'T care about the other stuff.

October 13, 2011

Shallow can certainly mean picky --- it's very narrow, there's not much to it at all. Where is the depth in "I will only sleep with extremely aesthetic people... and I don't care if they're hollow inside" --- or, "good looks are what matters the most" when it's something that is fleeting and quite frankly doesn't truly have much to offer etc?

ptp --- How is it not strange? Either way, people are like chameleons and I can't help but find it "strange", if not altogether unsightly (depending). What's "real"? Hmm.

What's real is how you conduct yourself when nobody is looking.

October 13, 2011

"good looks are what matters the most" when it's something that is fleeting and quite frankly doesn't truly have much to offer etc?

Looks are what gets a guy drawn to a girl/woman initially, it's what makes a guy pay attention to a girl/woman initially and leads him to approach to get to know her (personality), you can't suppress that as a guy just for the sake of political correctness and to "transcend" shallowness. If you you take that as a benchmark for shallowness, then nearly all men are shallow by default due to their biological wiring.

To me, personality is a huge factor, but I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon that says that looks do not matter because they are transient, just because that would make me look less shallow.

Looks are a significant factor due to our biology. While there might be some people that have transcended the need for physical beauty in their partner, many have not. I'll admit that I have not. Is beauty fleeting? Yes, of course I realize that, but that doesn't mean I don't need that initial pull that female beauty generates in a man.

October 13, 2011

Most women are just selfish. Again, not hating just telling the truth. The look at ugly men as if these ugly men were monsters but the truth is, most of these ugly men would instinctively protect these women if these women were in any sort of danger. I want to protect them. I might never get a date, I don't give a ****, but that instinctive urge to protect them never goes away. They should think about these things before hating

It makes me sad to read of men who really feel this way about women. Like In A Rut said, it all comes to the beholder. "Ugly" is a very, very subjective term. Just because two women might not find you attractive, so what, there are most likely two or three more in the world who do. It just comes down to being patient and finding those people who do like what you have to offer.

October 13, 2011

Most women are just selfish. Again, not hating just telling the truth. The look at ugly men as if these ugly men were monsters but the truth is, most of these ugly men would instinctively protect these women if these women were in any sort of danger. I want to protect them. I might never get a date, I don't give a ****, but that instinctive urge to protect them never goes away. They should think about these things before hating

And most men look at ugly women like they don't even deserve to live. So gimme a break how difficult ugly men have it. At least women sometimes decide a man's personality outweighs his looks and is happy with him.... men are only with ugly women because they're desperate and don't think they can get better.

October 13, 2011

Again, in that, it's not that the word "shallow" means "picky." It's simply that one might judge the criteria itself as being shallow, as in lacking in depth. The problem/shallowness isn't that the person cares about looks, for example, but rather that they DON'T care about the other stuff.

Bolded, yes ... although is it considered such when in reverse? Is someone shallow who prioritizes specific personality traits but not other ones and looks? (and I am not referring to health as that is important and something "deeper" than visual pleasure).

I think it's something that is judged by quality... quantity can technically be more, but in an intangible way, it is seen as less.

What's real is how you conduct yourself when nobody is looking.

To an extent... there's too many variables. People are bound to act uncharacteristically at times... even when alone, for better and or worse... and unless we've grown up alone, it's inevitable that people help shape / influence our "real" self... I actually think people have real "selves"

October 13, 2011

Why do fat people complain about not being able to get a girlfriend? Or bring fat people into it? You can be fat and still be good-looking. Being fat doesn't actually change your looks and you can always lose the weight. If you looked like Brad Bitt and weighed in close to 1000 pounds you'd still lure in the most attractive women, because your golden looks still exist - underneath the fat

It's just that most fat people tend to be butt ugly as well

October 13, 2011

Looks are what gets a guy drawn to a girl/woman initially, it's what makes a guy pay attention to a girl/woman initially and leads him to approach to get to know her (personality), you can't suppress that as a guy just for the sake of political correctness and to "transcend" shallowness. If you you take that as a benchmark for shallowness, then nearly all men are shallow by default due to their biological wiring.

To me, personality is a huge factor, but I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon that says that looks do not matter because they are transient, just because that would make me look less shallow.

Looks are a significant factor due to our biology. While there might be some people that have transcended the need for physical beauty in their partner, many have not. I'll admit that I have not. Is beauty fleeting? Yes, of course I realize that, but that doesn't mean I don't need that initial pull that female beauty generates in a man.

The keyword that Onyx used, though, was "most." That looks matter the most, and that is where people draw conclusions about being shallow or having a lack of depth (or not). I agree, even as a woman, that if I initially see a man as attractive, it does draw me in and encourage me to get to know him better on a more personal level. It also happens the other way around, though.

However, for me to say that it is the most important thing about a man or any person, that would be - in my personal opinion - quite a shallow thing. Seeing that there are so many other obvious reedeming qualities that come to make up a person, that to say 'looks' make up most of it would almost be insulting and underestimating the worth of that very person.

October 13, 2011

Yep, I hate all the sweeping generalizations that are associated with people - who decides who is ugly and who isn't? I don't think anyone is ugly or beautiful on the outside, I think what makes a human beautiful or ugly is what is on the inside. Just because I might not be physically attracted doesn't make you ugly, it just means I am not physically attracted to you.

I feel at times we humans do not treat other people like humans and that's sad because we are all guilty of doing it.

I'm trying not to generalize but where I come from coming across a woman that doesn't hate on you if they don't fancy you is almost like winning the lotto. They're too rare. That is why we tend to generalize (or appear like we are)

October 13, 2011

The keyword that Onyx used, though, was "most." That looks matter the most

Yes, but my point was that initially, it can be the most important thing. But does that mean that people are shallow in the initial phase of the attraction process? I'm not so sure one could make such a judgement, as it's a biological mechanism, it's part of being human.

October 13, 2011

I've not experienced that, maybe it's an American thing.

I'm from the UK

Really bad here. The rule is: If you're not datable, then you're not even friendworthy. You don't even deserve to be treated like a human being. Plus if 1 popular person hates on you most people tend to follow. But it's just extremely rare to come across a young woman (20s, 30s & below) that doesn't hate on you if they don't fancy you

October 13, 2011

Yes, but my point was that initially, it can be the most important thing. But does that mean that people are shallow in the initial phase of the attraction process? I'm not so sure one could make such a judgement, as it's a biological mechanism, it's part of being human.

Hm... I suppose I'm part of the small group of people who believe that simply because it's biological doesn't necessarily mean that it's 'right'. Sounds a bit crazy, but to explain further would require me to go a bit (or very much) off-topic, but I understand where you're coming from.

October 13, 2011

I'm from the UK

Really bad here. The rule is: If you're not datable, then you're not even friendworthy. You don't even deserve to be treated like a human being.

Bullocks!

October 13, 2011

Hm... I suppose I'm part of the small group of people who believe that simply because it's biological doesn't necessarily mean that it's 'right'. Sounds a bit crazy, but to explain further would require me to go a bit (or very much) off-topic, but I understand where you're coming from.

Well I actually agree with you on that. However I didn't say that it it's right just because it's biologically driven, I questioned whether one could say it's shallow.

In some cases, in certain animals, killing is biologically driven. You could argue that it's wrong and the universe is all about dog eat dog, but could you say the animal is shallow? Of that I'm not so sure.

October 13, 2011

Bullocks!

I'm sorry but this is fact. It's very difficult for ugly men to get along with the majority of women -- we're just creeps. Nothing has changed we're still outcasts when it comes to women. A nerd will always be a nerd

October 13, 2011

Yep, I hate all the sweeping generalizations that are associated with people - who decides who is ugly and who isn't? I don't think anyone is ugly or beautiful on the outside, I think what makes a human beautiful or ugly is what is on the inside. Just because I might not be physically attracted doesn't make you ugly, it just means I am not physically attracted to you.

I feel at times we humans do not treat other people like humans and that's sad because we are all guilty of doing it.

Agreed.

And Nexus ---

Thieves gave an eloquent reply.

I just want to add that... perhaps in the past, physique was a reliable biological indicator of successful reproduction but...

in this day and age, where both men and women can undergo surgeries and appear like the opposite gender (if not also take hormones that are aimed at transforming them into such)... then... LOL...

Not to mention people will HARM / damage themselves in order to "appear" beautiful. It's not even an accurate indicator of health... it could be, instead, an indication of someone who is mentally unwell though ... or someone so desperate they're willing to "conform" to some idealized visual standard in order to be liked etc.

How reliable are looks again?

It's cliche, but things are often not what they seem (physique is just one expression of that). I could "change" my looks to become several different "types" for all sorts of men and women.

What does that all mean in the end? It sure doesn't speak to the strength of my natural genes... but rather how well I can deceive and "adapt" etc. If excelling at that is included within my DNA and within others, then I suppose such could be coveted ... but I consider it a rather rudimentary and typical thing. I cannot, personally, value physique above other things and not even the most initially... I don't have respect for those that do, but in the end, unless they are pursuing me/want something from me, it doesn't really matter because who cares if I respect them or not.

Deception is of course essential to the survival of many kinds of creatures... but I tend to see a lack of substance ... I'm not able to be impressed.

It's similar to what can be behind the art of "intimidation" --- what drives that source to be so powerful is the knowledge or belief that one is likely unable to protect themselves when it comes down to it... so there they are, doing all they can to "deter" potential threats, and never actually learning HOW to deal with a situation that could be lethal.

In reality, "the proof is in the pudding". Seldom is someone trying to "hone" their skills and trying to get someone to attack them etc by being verbally aggressive and intimidating... plus there's usually some compensation going on somewhere for those who seem to have to "toot their own horns".

Bit of a tangent... but in any case...

Physical attraction is primarily a psychological phenomena.

I don't really buy into the "biological" wiring... for example, I don't think "homosexuals" are biologically defective...

These things reside elsewhere. Many things can sexually arouse someone, or turn them off, and they tend to exist within the mind and within perception etc.

Edited October 13, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall

October 13, 2011

I'm sorry but this is fact. It's very difficult for ugly men to get along with the majority of women -- we're just creeps. Nothing has changed we're still outcasts when it comes to women. A nerd will always be a nerd

Then get ripped. If you're bald, shave your head. If you have glasses, get contacts, laser surgery or trendy glasses. Dress to kill. If you have a hairy chest get it waxed. If you're pale as f*ck, then get a spray tan. If your teeth are messed up, then get them bleached and get Invisalign. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that necessarily makes a guy beautiful, but it can help in terms of attractiveness.

You think those hot guys get it all for free? Some of them yes, most of them work their @ss off in the gym.

October 13, 2011

Then get ripped. If you're bald, shave your head. If you have glasses, get contacts, laser surgery or trendy glasses. Dress to kill. If you have a hairy chest get it waxed. If you're pale as f*ck, then get a spray tan. If your teeth are messed up, then get them bleached and get Invisalign. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that necessarily makes a guy beautiful, but it can help in terms of attractiveness.

You think those hot guys get it all for free? Some of them yes, most of them work their @ss off in the gym.

Believe it or not, I don't woman a woman. Appearance shouldn't matter anyway. Seriously, appearance should only matter when you're looking for dates.

I do take care of myself anyway

October 13, 2011

Well I actually agree with you on that. However I didn't say that it it's right just because it's biologically driven, I questioned whether one could say it's shallow.

In some cases, in certain animals, killing is biologically driven. You could argue that it's wrong and the universe is all about dog eat dog, but could you say the animal is shallow? Of that I'm not so sure.

If someone is unaware of it OR they are aware of it but can find no better method / way of being, despite seeing it is possible and seeing how it's done... then they are simply stupid :X

Maybe "stupid" is my "ugly"

Lol.

I do take care of myself anyway

That's the important part (IMO).

Edited October 13, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall

October 13, 2011

Appearance? Most of the guys where I'm from live in dirty houses, rip farts in public and everything and all the women absolutely love them. I simply accept things the way they are

If you aint got the looks -- heck you're less tolerable than a fart

Edit: I don't blame men or women - I blame nature itself - it's cruel

Edited October 14, 2011 by danmorisson

October 14, 2011

I just want to add that... perhaps in the past, physique was a reliable biological indicator of successful reproduction but...

in this day and age, where both men and women can undergo surgeries and appear like the opposite gender (if not also take hormones that are aimed at transforming them into such)... then... LOL...

Oh please Onyx, you know damn well I wasn't talking about feeling attracted to transsexuals. I'm straight, if I knew someone who was a woman turned out to be a guy, then that would be a turn-off, no matter how good the surgery would be. And don't get me started about that being shallow, well maybe it is, but it's not like I can help being straight.

Not to mention people will HARM / damage themselves in order to "appear" beautiful. It's not even an accurate indicator of health... it could be, instead, an indication of someone who is mentally unwell though ... or someone so desperate they're willing to "conform" to some idealized visual standard in order to be liked etc.

How reliable are looks again?

I used to think the same way about plastic surgery. I actually turned around on it. It's much more damaging to live being unhappy with yourself than to get something fixed. I'm not talking about overdoing it. I'm talking about it within reasonable limits.

It's cliche, but things are often not what they seem (physique is just one expression of that). I could "change" my looks to become several different "types" for all sorts of men and women.

The chameleon factor is in my opinion something that is attractive in itself.

What does that all mean in the end? It sure doesn't speak to the strength of my natural genes... but rather how well I can deceive and "adapt" etc.

That is an interesting way of looking at it, I actually agree with you there.

I cannot, personally, value physique above other things and not even the most initially... I don't have respect for those that do, but in the end, unless they are pursuing me/want something from me, it doesn't really matter because who cares if I respect them or not.

Well thanks.

Deception is of course essential to the survival of many kinds of creatures... but I tend to see a lack of substance ... I'm not able to be impressed.

It's not about being impressed, get off your high horse. It's about living your life and being happy. What else can a person aim for while living in the human condition?

Physical attraction is primarily a psychological phenomena.
I don't really buy into the "biological" wiring... for example, I don't think "homosexuals" are biologically defective...

I do buy into the biological wiring, you know why? Because I had my first crush when I was 5, in kindergarten. I knew jack sh*t about the world and how people operated and about human psychology, yet the crush developed all by itself.

These things reside elsewhere. Many things can sexually arouse someone, or turn them off, and they tend to exist within the mind and within perception etc.

While philosophically that may be correct, I can't eat off of philosophical truths, I don't feel along the lines of philosophical truths. I am driven partly if not mainly by my organism.

To deny that is to deny biology itself.

October 14, 2011

If someone is unaware of it OR they are aware of it but can find no better method / way of being, despite seeing it is possible and seeing how it's done... then they are simply stupid :X

Maybe "stupid" is my "ugly"

Lol.

Technically I could find a better way of being, as you suggest by cutting out the physical beauty factor completely. But that would be to torture myself.

Onyx you kind of talk like you have it all figured out. In my opinion you don't, neither do I, but I'm not going to talk as if I do or look down upon people who don't or differ in opinion. I'm not going to judge someone for it, you seem to come across as if you do.

Don't get me wrong, I think your point of view is interesting, but there's philosophy and there is the cold hard reality of the universe and our biology. In my opinion they're both sides of the same coin and the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Although I can't say for sure where, because I simply don't know it all.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Nexus One

October 14, 2011

Oh please Onyx, you know damn well I wasn't talking about feeling attracted to transsexuals. I'm straight, if I knew someone who was a woman turned out to be a guy, then that would be a turn-off, no matter how good the surgery would be. And don't get me started about that being shallow, well maybe it is, but it's not like I can help being straight.

What? They are some very beautiful women.

Seriously.

..

Also, it is simply to convey that if we've come that far --- just consider all the other alterations that occur.

I used to think the same way about plastic surgery. I actually turned around on it. It's much more damaging to live being unhappy with yourself than to get something fixed. I'm not talking about overdoing it. I'm talking about it within reasonable limits.

I think there certainly are situations in which I can be sympathetic with it, but it is my weakness and my own attachment to my image that is doing so. Not going to say it's something it's not.

The chameleon factor is in my opinion something that is attractive in itself.

Our personal tastes diverge here. While I take delight in sifting through facades --- in digging my curious fingers into the chitinous slate of a person and penetrating their layers and gray matters --- I want to know how well someone reflects their personal truths... where is their underbelly and is it pristine or scarred... are they cowards, how often can they overcome their selfishness... etc.

It's not about being impressed, get off your high horse. It's about living your life and being happy. What else can a person aim for while living in the human condition?

Do you want me to get off my high horse or to live my life and be happy? Because I've been down there and it's nastyyyy... I like it much more up here

I do buy into the biological wiring, you know why? Because I had my first crush when I was 5, in kindergarten. I knew jack sh*t about the world and how people operated and about human psychology, yet the crush developed all by itself.

It developed by itself? I guess you learned to speak by yourself? And you learned to potty train yourself (do you remember learning that? assuming you were young enough --- oh, I presume, just because you can't recall something... means it never occurred, mm?)

YOU were learning the world all around you.

For all you know, you were emulating something.

Children have feelings... children are constantly absorbing the world around them, too.

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