Choose Life Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Check out Baggage Reclaim, it helped a lot, here is one of the articles.... Last week in part one, I talked about how you’re an escape from reality, that all the cheating guys are liars, that the situation is far from being unique, that these guys are manipulators, that they rarely leave their wives or girlfriends, and that as women we treat the dysfunctional relationship we have with these men like a competitive sport. In part 2, I discussed how we’re responsible for our actions, how they remove our power, how we need to be in a dark place to be with them in the first place, that we have issues with commitment, we do hurt even when we pretend we don’t, and much more. And now for the final part… You have to make his wife or girlfriend real. Stop pretending that she doesn’t exist. Stop regarding her as the woman who is standing in the way of you being with the guy that is rightfully yours. Start regarding her as human. I used to refer to his girlfriend as ‘her’ and I noticed that on the rare occasions that I said her name, he’d wince. The more I got real is the more that I called her by her name and made her real for us both. I stopped regarding her as pathetic and weak and started seeing her as a woman, someone who is human and has faults and makes mistakes just like me. I realised that even if I put myself in her shoes and decided that she wasn’t an amazing person, who the hell was I to regard her so negatively when it was me who was sleeping with her man! You also need to be real about what you’re doing. The damage that both parties do in this deceitful relationship is untold. I’m lucky that my guy didn’t have kids and hand on heart, I wouldn’t have touched him with a bargepole if he had! But plenty of women do and whether he has no kids, ten kids, a llama, or just a plain ‘ole wife or girlfriend, you are doing damage even if they don’t yet know about it. In order for me to be with him for our snatched times together, I had to deduct time from her, get him to lie repeatedly, and like all cheats, he was emotionally unavailable to both of us. Yes he did the ‘I love you’s’ but like most men who are having their cake and eating it too, he talked a bloody good game but as soon as they walk out the door, it is out of sight, out of mind. They mean what they say as much as anyone who is being so dishonest in general can mean anything. My mantra’s became ‘What’s in it for me?’ and ‘What have you done for me lately?’ and the more that I said this to myself, is the more that I realised that I had gone way off track. When you’re the Other Woman, you regard the smallest things as something big. If a guy who didn’t have a girlfriend or a wife did those things, you’d think he was having a laugh. That’s when I started looking at how we were when we were together and what he did and said, and it became clear that living the life of the Other Woman had nothing in it for me. If I wanted to cry on occasions like birthdays, Christmases, be quizzed about who I was out with, who I’d told about us, pretend that I was single, pretend that I wasn’t bothered about people feeling sorry for me being involved, pretending that it didn’t often feel like wham, bam, thank you mam as he kept his beady eye on the time, then clearly there was plenty in it for me. But in reality, the good stuff is tipped severely in his direction and he reaps all the benefits whilst your own life goes down the toilet, or at the very least remains in limbo I realised that I didn’t want to be with a liar or a coward. It all just became a long drawn out ordeal and it became clear that he was too scared to commit to being with just her, and just as equally too scared to commit to being with just me. A very typical commitment-phobe and not exactly a great candidate for happiness. That is the reality of the attached man that is in no danger of leaving his wife or girlfriend but tries to have the best of both worlds. Men like to have something to go to and they don’t like to feel like bastards. Hence they’re hoping that she does something sooooooooooo bad that it gives him the perfect excuse to walk away. They can’t ‘just finish it’; there has to be something really wrong. He can’t just have met someone else and fallen for them because in their minds, that’s a really bad thing to have to tell someone and easier just to screw someone behind their hacks. They say women are illogical (so not true) but that’s nothing compared to the cheating man. Good, decent, men sort out their old relationship before they move on. There can be a slight overlap, but good decent men don’t try to have the best of both worlds by cheating on a partner for months or years at a time. There are plenty of men out there that will grow their nuts and go and sort out their stuff so that they can be with the woman that they’ve met. A decent guy will leave you be and come back when his house is in order. And that’s really what is at the heart of this. Loving someone takes a leap of faith and a man that wants to find out what you both potentially have in store for each other will grow some nuts and take that leap. Anybody else who drags out the saga for months or even years on end is trying to figure out what he wants on BOTH of your time and if so much time has passed, you have to wonder how much they can really feel. My ex is still with his girlfriend and every single cheat that a friend has been involved with is either still with the wife or girlfriend, has been thrown out, or is with someone else. Yes, occasionally it works out, but for the great majority, it doesn’t.
OMG_did_I Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 GREAT POST!!! I agree, completely. I've been reading Nat's posts on Baggage Reclaim for quite some time now. Although, I'm no longer in a OW position, I like to keep the knowledge fresh. Also, while I continue to read posts on LS, I remember where I was, what it felt like, and like many members here, wonder how it happened... And grateful to have learned the lessons, that will allow me to make better decisions in the future.
FelicityShot Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 Check out Baggage Reclaim, it helped a lot, here is one of the articles.... And that’s really what is at the heart of this. Loving someone takes a leap of faith and a man that wants to find out what you both potentially have in store for each other will grow some nuts and take that leap. Anybody else who drags out the saga for months or even years on end is trying to figure out what he wants on BOTH of your time and if so much time has passed, you have to wonder how much they can really feel. My ex is still with his girlfriend and every single cheat that a friend has been involved with is either still with the wife or girlfriend, has been thrown out, or is with someone else. Yes, occasionally it works out, but for the great majority, it doesn’t. I agree with the above. But on the whole, my A has been an incredibly positive experience. Not in terms of outcomes - lets face it, love and outcomes are only intertwined if you live life co-dependently. There are many sad people here, who realise one day that they got sucked into something untrue. I don't feel like that. I feel like it was very true. I have no need to disparage the M AP I was involved with. In fact, if I did that, I really would lose myself. So while it is sensible to be aware that there are sharks, it is also wise to understand that not all stories are the same, and that As can be a good thing for the OW/OM too. Basically, there is a root level of things, where if there was love, it was a good thing.
MilfinBerle Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 my A has been an incredibly positive experience To a starving man, a crust of bread is a banquet.
SunsetRed Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 Wow, all of this really hit home. Are you writing a book specifically about being an OW? Being an OW takes all the fear and commitment issues to an entirely new level. I've date plenty of unavailable men in the past and have read lots of books on commitment phobia but being with an MM takes everything to a new level. For one thing, many MM's make you feel like you're in a committed relationship. They make an OW feel special and that the only thing keeping them apart is just this nasty little legal arrangement they made in the past. When I was with my xMM, I felt like his partner, but on some subconcious level I must've realized how incapable we were of being truly together. There is a broken part of me that doesnt want to give up control of my life and one has to be able to bend and give up some control in order to have a fully committed relationship. I wish the broken part of me wasnt there, because I am missing out on having the love I say I want so much. I can't wait to read part III of your blog because I want to get over that fear I have that there won't be a single, available man who will love me and want me for a partner. It has always seemed as if the single men I met were abusive to me or out to use me for money or had some serious other deficits. xMM had that husbandly, provider, protector quality that I seek, probably because he WAS someone's husband. I have all the qualities of an OW. I have my own commitment issues and I have damaged self esteem and think that had I been a better gf, xMM would have chosen me and I'd be loved. I'm also operating out of some form of broken logic, yet it all feels real and logical to me. Well, thank you for your post. I do feel more motivated to spend time working on my own demons than on reminiscing about MM.
Author Choose Life Posted October 14, 2011 Author Posted October 14, 2011 Sunset check out here http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/ This lady is very wise, love reading her blogs, she helped me alot. Just search for OW, lots to be read! Wow, all of this really hit home. Are you writing a book specifically about being an OW? Being an OW takes all the fear and commitment issues to an entirely new level. I've date plenty of unavailable men in the past and have read lots of books on commitment phobia but being with an MM takes everything to a new level. For one thing, many MM's make you feel like you're in a committed relationship. They make an OW feel special and that the only thing keeping them apart is just this nasty little legal arrangement they made in the past. When I was with my xMM, I felt like his partner, but on some subconcious level I must've realized how incapable we were of being truly together. There is a broken part of me that doesnt want to give up control of my life and one has to be able to bend and give up some control in order to have a fully committed relationship. I wish the broken part of me wasnt there, because I am missing out on having the love I say I want so much. I can't wait to read part III of your blog because I want to get over that fear I have that there won't be a single, available man who will love me and want me for a partner. It has always seemed as if the single men I met were abusive to me or out to use me for money or had some serious other deficits. xMM had that husbandly, provider, protector quality that I seek, probably because he WAS someone's husband. I have all the qualities of an OW. I have my own commitment issues and I have damaged self esteem and think that had I been a better gf, xMM would have chosen me and I'd be loved. I'm also operating out of some form of broken logic, yet it all feels real and logical to me. Well, thank you for your post. I do feel more motivated to spend time working on my own demons than on reminiscing about MM.
Kitsune77 Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 Beautiful, beautiful post. He gave me all that he could, and when I asked for more, he gave that also. Maybe it was easier for us, as there was no expectation of happily ever after, having said that, I know he will probably be in my life, in one way or another, for a very long time. As I once told him, I felt honoured to be loved by him, and incredibly grateful that he was in this world, and he felt the same.(And we still feel the same) There can be searing honesty in an affair, despite what people may say. But on the whole, my A has been an incredibly positive experience. Not in terms of outcomes - lets face it, love and outcomes are only intertwined if you live life co-dependently. There are many sad people here, who realise one day that they got sucked into something untrue. I don't feel like that. I feel like it was very true. I have no need to disparage the M AP I was involved with. In fact, if I did that, I really would lose myself. So while it is sensible to be aware that there are sharks, it is also wise to understand that not all stories are the same, and that As can be a good thing for the OW/OM too. Basically, there is a root level of things, where if there was love, it was a good thing.
silic0ntoad Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 Beautiful, beautiful post. He gave me all that he could, and when I asked for more, he gave that also. Maybe it was easier for us, as there was no expectation of happily ever after, having said that, I know he will probably be in my life, in one way or another, for a very long time. As I once told him, I felt honoured to be loved by him, and incredibly grateful that he was in this world, and he felt the same.(And we still feel the same) There can be searing honesty in an affair, despite what people may say. [/b] Love built on deceit isn't love, it's deceit. You need to remove that veil from your eyes.
Kitsune77 Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 oh i forgot, its better to be bitter and twisted, to turn every lovely thing he ever did , and we ever experianced , at great cost to himself, so I can be part of the "sisterhood"? Yeah, I really look foreward to having that bitter gall with me for the next 10 years. And for the record,I felt that way when my fiancee had an affair with my best friend, and it taught me that bitterness is not my favourite brew. And I can honestly say,I have no bitterness toward anyone in my past, tell me, can you say the same? Love built on deceit isn't love, it's deceit. You need to remove that veil from your eyes.
silic0ntoad Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) Nope, no bitterness. Wisdom, yes, bitterness, no. My ex of 4.5 years cheated on me and left me high and dry with tons of bills - I admitted my faults. It's cool, I don't expect you to admit your own, but your post says it all. You fiance had an affair? And yet, you're also doing the same? Knowing how that made you feel, you're doing it right back to the BS? I don't get it. Is there some abandoment issue here? wtf? The BS in this equation is never considered by the OM/OW without massive introspective thought, most of the time this seems to be clouded over by these ridiculous love stories. There was love, sure, but it was based on deception. Build a house on sand and see how far you go. To be frank, I find it funny how your accusations and whatnot slung back at me, yet you don't look at yourself; I may have had my faults, I own them. But I also realise the truth of every situation; my ex and I weren't a perfect match, no one ever is. I did things to push her away. That's fine, I own it. She found comfort in someone else. That's her perogative, a disfunctional coping mechanism, something that is improper when the value of the relationship is taken into scope - there's no bitterness, just world weary understanding left. Yet you claim to fully understand the length and breadth of my own innter feelings with claims that are unfounded; anyone can waive a red flag, but only the honest can waive a white one. Honesty leads to love, no deception. Deception leads to hurt and anger. Edited October 14, 2011 by silic0ntoad
Kitsune77 Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 I didn't presume to know your thought or feelings, I simply asked you if you felt bitter. Nope, no bitterness. Wisdom, yes, bitterness, no. My ex of 4.5 years cheated on me and left me high and dry with tons of bills - I admitted my faults. It's cool, I don't expect you to admit your own, but your post says it all. You fiance had an affair? And yet, you're also doing the same? Knowing how that made you feel, you're doing it right back to the BS? I don't get it. Is there some abandoment issue here? wtf? The BS in this equation is never considered by the OM/OW without massive introspective thought, most of the time this seems to be clouded over by these ridiculous love stories. There was love, sure, but it was based on deception. Build a house on sand and see how far you go. To be frank, I find it funny how your accusations and whatnot slung back at me, yet you don't look at yourself; I may have had my faults, I own them. But I also realise the truth of every situation; my ex and I weren't a perfect match, no one ever is. I did things to push her away. That's fine, I own it. She found comfort in someone else. That's her perogative, a disfunctional coping mechanism, something that is improper when the value of the relationship is taken into scope - there's no bitterness, just world weary understanding left. Yet you claim to fully understand the length and breadth of my own innter feelings with claims that are unfounded; anyone can waive a red flag, but only the honest can waive a white one. Honesty leads to love, no deception. Deception leads to hurt and anger.
mzdolphin Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Great post. Thanks. I remember what it was like to be in this crazy-making situation. Because I had never been in that situation I didn't know how un-unique it was. Cheaters really are cowards. Especially those who carry on like this for years and it seems most will carry on until the affair partner ends it or the BS kicks them out. Not only must you see the wife as a person, you also have to stop treating the MM as a prize that she's winning over you. I remember realizing that even if he left his wife, the BEST I had to hope for was a relationship with a known liar and cheat. Not good.
yeszombie Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 This is a great post. I doubt it'll stop me from kissing him back next time he kisses me though
woinlove Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 (edited) Kitsune, one doesn't have to been twisted and bitter to realize that love within an affair is often limited. Just knowingly involving each other in mutual deceit for any length of time is an unkind act that can affect one and is quite different than encouraging one to be the best person they can be. Edited October 15, 2011 by woinlove
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