nothappyjan Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Well I finally did it, I date a self professed "Nice guy" The type who claims to be hard done by, by everyone. He seemed so nice at the beginning and I kept dating him. Then basically one day he turned and got cranky and ended up being extremly passive agressive and was msging me mean things that were not even true and he even had to take them back as he realised that he had made a fool of himself. His messages still go on about how the world is so against him yet the irony is it's the worst breakup i've had, yet the shortest relationship. I've never said anything mean to him, yet he thinks he can be mean back. But of course its all his bosses fault, his parents divorce etc and nothing is his fault. I think i've learnt my lesson. If a guy has a chip on his shoulder, nothing you can do will help him.
thatone Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 yeah. i might fall under that label of "nice guy" in that i'm pretty easy going, i trust what people say until evidence shows they aren't worthy of trust, and i accommodate other people when i can. but i never stayed with a job and took sh*t from a boss when i was employed by others, if that was an issue i just quit and found another one. i don't blame my parents for any problems i've had as an adult, the way i see it as soon as i turned 18 the decisions became mine, not theirs. i'm not scared to tell women what i think and what i want, whether that be positive or negative, and i don't get passive-aggressive, if there's an issue i just say it calmly and rationally. sounds like what you really found was a loser who tried to steal someone else's image and then fell apart when he couldn't maintain the facade.
grkBoy Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 The problem is men in general seem to think that just because they can't get a girl, they must be a "nice guy". The term seemingly has nothing to do anymore with actually being nice to people, but really it's a blanket term to cover guys who maybe are ugly, or creepy, or socially inept. Have I been rejected in my past because I was a good man to a girl? Yes. Does that mean I'm a "nice guy" (according to the "real meaning")? No. It means the girl either didn't feel a connection, but will go off to find a guy she does connect with...or even she's got her own issues and can't handle it when a guy is good to her. In my past I know it was because I wasn't what the woman desired in a man both physically and socially. I've known guys both on these boards and off who claim they're nice guys and are rejected for that, but you see their real colors. They'll become drama queens or even just plain mean when a girl rejects them. They can't hold a real conversation, or they are uptight and uncomfortable to be around when they're out. Some want life to be "a certain way", so when they eye out a girl, they hope she'll be willing to become his subjugate...just so he can live his "I am tha man" fantasy. Some are just having other red flags they seemingly think women should overlook...like a 30something guy who can't hold a job and lives with his parents. They think they're rejected because they believe they are "nice" to women, but the reality is women see no future with him. NOW...some women do actually reject guys who are good to them and instead chase abusive guys. This doesn't speak for all women though, and those few who chase abuse are women any guy shouldn't deal with.
Author nothappyjan Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 The problem is men in general seem to think that just because they can't get a girl, they must be a "nice guy". The term seemingly has nothing to do anymore with actually being nice to people, but really it's a blanket term to cover guys who maybe are ugly, or creepy, or socially inept. Have I been rejected in my past because I was a good man to a girl? Yes. Does that mean I'm a "nice guy" (according to the "real meaning")? No. It means the girl either didn't feel a connection, but will go off to find a guy she does connect with...or even she's got her own issues and can't handle it when a guy is good to her. In my past I know it was because I wasn't what the woman desired in a man both physically and socially. I've known guys both on these boards and off who claim they're nice guys and are rejected for that, but you see their real colors. They'll become drama queens or even just plain mean when a girl rejects them. They can't hold a real conversation, or they are uptight and uncomfortable to be around when they're out. Some want life to be "a certain way", so when they eye out a girl, they hope she'll be willing to become his subjugate...just so he can live his "I am tha man" fantasy. Some are just having other red flags they seemingly think women should overlook...like a 30something guy who can't hold a job and lives with his parents. They think they're rejected because they believe they are "nice" to women, but the reality is women see no future with him. NOW...some women do actually reject guys who are good to them and instead chase abusive guys. This doesn't speak for all women though, and those few who chase abuse are women any guy shouldn't deal with. That's a great point and I think its those other issues that men have that they like to ignore and just blame it all on the fact they are a nice guy, that way they don't have to take any responsibility for not getting into a relationship.
Emilia Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 The problem is men in general seem to think that just because they can't get a girl, they must be a "nice guy". The term seemingly has nothing to do anymore with actually being nice to people, but really it's a blanket term to cover guys who maybe are ugly, or creepy, or socially inept. Have I been rejected in my past because I was a good man to a girl? Yes. Does that mean I'm a "nice guy" (according to the "real meaning")? No. It means the girl either didn't feel a connection, but will go off to find a guy she does connect with...or even she's got her own issues and can't handle it when a guy is good to her. In my past I know it was because I wasn't what the woman desired in a man both physically and socially. I've known guys both on these boards and off who claim they're nice guys and are rejected for that, but you see their real colors. They'll become drama queens or even just plain mean when a girl rejects them. They can't hold a real conversation, or they are uptight and uncomfortable to be around when they're out. Some want life to be "a certain way", so when they eye out a girl, they hope she'll be willing to become his subjugate...just so he can live his "I am tha man" fantasy. Some are just having other red flags they seemingly think women should overlook...like a 30something guy who can't hold a job and lives with his parents. They think they're rejected because they believe they are "nice" to women, but the reality is women see no future with him. NOW...some women do actually reject guys who are good to them and instead chase abusive guys. This doesn't speak for all women though, and those few who chase abuse are women any guy shouldn't deal with. From experience as a woman I agree with this 100%. A lot of guys that label themselves as 'nice' are just passive and don't really know how to express what they want or need in an assertive way. Hence the 'passive aggressive' behaviour which is usually offensive and betrays lack of social skills. There are very good, decent men out there however who are a good catch and aren't scared of making themselves unpopular with some of their decisions from time to time. I have plenty of time for those.
ChessPieceFace Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 "Nice guy" = "Doesn't act like a dominant animal when trying to get a girl" That's the long and the short of it. That's the only correct universal statement you can make. Not all "nice guys" are bitter or socially inept. However, dealing with the dominant animal males of the world and continually losing to them takes its toll. They are more often those things, especially as years pass with no success, but saying they are always that is foolish. In reality, the problem is human nature - specifically, womens' poor mate selection behavior, which rewards base animal behavior of alpha males. This is one key thing which holds back our species. Blaming good men for becoming bitter when their good qualities are constantly ignored over years and years of trying, is just more injustice toward them. No surprise there.
GoodOnPaper Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I think i've learnt my lesson. If a guy has a chip on his shoulder, nothing you can do will help him. If the guy still has the chip when actually in a relationship, then that sort of goes beyond "nice guy" qualities. Of course, it could also just be a sign that you weren't the right woman for him. When you struggle with "nice guy" issues, it's easy to think that getting into ANY relationship will make you feel better about yourself -- you forget that you have to be open to the possibility that a particular gf may not be the right one for you long-term and if you try to force it, your true feelings will come out in some way at some point. While it's good that people seem to be more aware of "nice guy syndrome", some probably do stretch what the "nice guy" label means. IMO, most "nice guy" qualities pertain to a feminized outlook on one's emotional life -- emotionally sensitive, over-analytical, somewhat passive. Throw those in with an introverted personality style and you're in for a very uphill battle in the attraction stage of dating. Some are just having other red flags they seemingly think women should overlook...like a 30something guy who can't hold a job and lives with his parents. They think they're rejected because they believe they are "nice" to women, but the reality is women see no future with him. I agree -- however, I think it's still in the "nice" realm when the sensitive and analytical nature of your personality actually helps you achieve great success in some areas of life -- like education and career -- yet still works as a liability when it comes to dating.
fortyninethousand322 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 If the guy still has the chip when actually in a relationship, then that sort of goes beyond "nice guy" qualities. Of course, it could also just be a sign that you weren't the right woman for him. When you struggle with "nice guy" issues, it's easy to think that getting into ANY relationship will make you feel better about yourself -- you forget that you have to be open to the possibility that a particular gf may not be the right one for you long-term and if you try to force it, your true feelings will come out in some way at some point. While it's good that people seem to be more aware of "nice guy syndrome", some probably do stretch what the "nice guy" label means. IMO, most "nice guy" qualities pertain to a feminized outlook on one's emotional life -- emotionally sensitive, over-analytical, somewhat passive. Throw those in with an introverted personality style and you're in for a very uphill battle in the attraction stage of dating. I agree -- however, I think it's still in the "nice" realm when the sensitive and analytical nature of your personality actually helps you achieve great success in some areas of life -- like education and career -- yet still works as a liability when it comes to dating. Right on the money. All of it. Especially the bolded parts.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Hey great comments from Brian and grkboy..I totally agree with both of them.
skylarkjv Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 As a self-described nice guy, not all of us are passive-aggressive. I would say that being passive-aggressive would disqualify someone as being a nice guy in the first place. In the relationships I've had, I've actually only ever broken up with one girl. Ironically it was over passive-aggressive & bi-polar tendencies. But I also don't date a lot. Mainly because I am a nice guy. So here is the breakdown of what I mean by that: -I may flirt, but never make a move on a girl I know unless I have some sign that she's wanting it too. -I only move the relationship as fast as she is willing to go. And sometimes, I'm slower than she is. -If I'm dating a girl, my eyes are only on her. Other women for all intents and purposes, don't exist. -When I ask a girl out, I accommodate for her. If she can't make Tuesday at 7, how about Thursday at 8? (That being said I'll try a date I think is more available for her, but if she can't make the second, I'll just say "Sorry, oh well. Maybe some other time then.") -I try to always pay. Some women like it, some don't. The girl I'm seeing right now says she doesn't like it and tries to pay sometimes, but most of the time she lets me pay without a fuss. So I guess my point is, don't disqualify a guy just because he says he's a nice guy. Yeah we sometimes finish last. A lot of that is our own fault. I used to be too scared to ever make a move. It wasn't the girl's fault that some guy swept her up before I grew some balls. I've talked with a few previous crushes who all told me that they probably would have said yes, if I would have just manned up. If a guy carries a chip on his shoulder because of that, the hell with him. But if he's passive-aggressive, then he is using the nice guy line to just get in your pants. He's not nice, he's not really even a man. He's a boy trying to get his willy wet.
TigerCub Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Anyone that tries to emphasize that they fall into a certain category, usually don't. The guys that keep saying how they are "nice guys" - usually aren't really The guys that imply that they've been around and are great in bed - are usually the worst ****s ever. The girls that stress that they don't want any drama in relationships - usually get/create all the drama etc... If someone keeps stressing that they fit a certain mold, it makes me wonder if they're doing it to convince the world or themselves. Because if you truly are a certain way, you don't need to proclaim it, you just are and it shows...
serial muse Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Anyone that tries to emphasize that they fall into a certain category, usually don't. The guys that keep saying how they are "nice guys" - usually aren't really The guys that imply that they've been around and are great in bed - are usually the worst ****s ever. The girls that stress that they don't want any drama in relationships - usually get/create all the drama etc... If someone keeps stressing that they fit a certain mold, it makes me wonder if they're doing it to convince the world or themselves. Because if you truly are a certain way, you don't need to proclaim it, you just are and it shows... This is an excellent point. I completely agree.
grkBoy Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I know in my past, I was a total doormat. Thankfully I'd never do something insane like buy a girl a plane ticket, but I would be the "puppy dog". Always attentive, there for her, complimenting her when she's down, listening when she complains about a guy. On top of that (and I've talked about this before) I was a little overweight, dressed terribly, and could not really conduct myself well socially. Over time...I learned how. I learned how to relax, stop worrying so much if something happens, and even stopped trying so hard to make people like me. I also learned who is right for my life and who isn't. So the wild party bunch that a handful of hot girls roll with are not ideal for me if I'm not into that lifestyle...even if I happen to be able to get chatty with one of the girls (but she shows no interest in dating me). I lost some weight and learned better fashion, which helped a lot in boosting my confidence. I went and "got a life", as in I did things for me that opened me up to new people and places. I think the biggest thing any "nice guy" can do to help himself is to stop making "find a girlfriend" such a massive priority in their lives. It sounds ridiculous (since this is a dating forum), but when you're free of that pressure and you conduct yourself in a relaxed/confident sense, women notice...even if you don't look like Brad Pitt, David Beckham, or Bradley Cooper.
Wolf18 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I think it's true that a lot of guys are just physically unattractive in the eyes of women and would rather blame the fact that they're "nice guys" (whether they are or not) than acknowledge that it could be their looks. This is partially women's fault for giving the "You're a nice guy but..." speech to these guys, they don't know not to take what women say at face value. I have to say however, that I have seen women pass up perfectly good, genuinely decent guys for obnoxious pricks for inexplicable reasons. In all the cases the good guy and abusive guy were about equal in looks, I think all things being equal the jerky guy has an advantage Dominance = woman's aphrodesiac, even if it manifests itself in a horrible way.
Content Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) Some of these nice guys probably are nice the problem is it takes more then just to be "nice" to be attractive to the opposite sex If shes not physically attracted to you and your not makign a connection you could be gandhi nice its not gonna make her attracted to you Edited October 12, 2011 by Content
skylarkjv Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Wow. All that over something stupid. Sorry you were offended by the post Brian. I genuinely wasn't trying to come off as conceited or selfish. I was trying to shed light on something that seemed to be headed towards disregarding every guy who claims to be nice at some point or another. I just didn't want the OP to begin distancing herself from a guy just because he says he's a nice guy. I honestly don't know if I'm nicer than the average guy or not. I haven't taken a survey of the population. Have you? That comment was really meant as a jab at my perceived self-righteousness, but it really doesn't pan out too well if you actually think about it. Again, I'm sorry if you think I'm full of myself. You might be right. But when I find out, I'll let you know. Until then, we're both in the dark eh?
MaxNoob Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I was a total doormat ... I would be the "puppy dog". Always attentive, there for her, complimenting her when she's down, listening when she complains about a guy. What is wrong with that? What is wrong with trying to cheer someone up when they're down? You're using derogatory terms to describe acts of kindness because you believe the effort isn't worth the benefit to yourself. That is not a judgement of kindness but rather a reflection of your own selfishness. I once spent several days making a custom CD for a girl who was absolutely terrified of guys because she was raped by her father as a child. I remixed the songs, blending them together so as to tell a story about her. I wrote a letter, explaining what I thought these songs meant, and why I thought she was special. I added in some jokes so it wasn't too serious, made a nice label for it, and gave it to her. She was amazed by it and showed it off to all her friends. I was so happy that I was able to make her feel special. You could say that being nice to someone else is actually a selfish act because it makes me feel good, but that would make the word "selfish" meaningless. I feel this way because of my actions towards someone else, so it's not about the self.
thatone Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 the thing that stands out to me in the OP is "self professed". while i'm typically accommodating, content with the woman's pace, and other such things, i've never described myself as a 'nice guy' to a woman, ever.
verhrzn Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 What is wrong with that? What is wrong with trying to cheer someone up when they're down? You're using derogatory terms to describe acts of kindness because you believe the effort isn't worth the benefit to yourself. That is not a judgement of kindness but rather a reflection of your own selfishness. I once spent several days making a custom CD for a girl who was absolutely terrified of guys because she was raped by her father as a child. I remixed the songs, blending them together so as to tell a story about her. I wrote a letter, explaining what I thought these songs meant, and why I thought she was special. I added in some jokes so it wasn't too serious, made a nice label for it, and gave it to her. She was amazed by it and showed it off to all her friends. I was so happy that I was able to make her feel special. You could say that being nice to someone else is actually a selfish act because it makes me feel good, but that would make the word "selfish" meaningless. I feel this way because of my actions towards someone else, so it's not about the self. The difference between what that posters was referring to and what you did is that your actions were motivated by wanting to make someone else happy and special. It was a selfless (mostly... I'm not convinced humans can ever be COMPLETELY selfless) act of kindness and compassion. "Nice guys" on the other hand, do those same sorts of actions, but then expect something in return. That's what separates nice guys from "nice guys"... the first's actions are motivated from a place of genuine kindness and humanity, and the latter's actions are selfishly motivated.
AHardDaysNight Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I know the reason why I've been rejected isn't because I'm nice, or a geek, or...whatever. It's because I have poor social skills, I have anxiety, and I'm overweight. Those three things I need to work on, but it's not because of being nice. Anyone can be nice!
Yamaha Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Well I finally did it, I date a self professed "Nice guy" My question to the OP would be, "did you date him b/c he was nice and you thought you'd give him a chance?". If that is the case, is it possible he figured out your interest in him wasn't 100% ( lack of attraction ) b/c other women have dated him for the same reasons?
fishtaco Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Here's a general point. Don't believe what people tell you. Any one can walk up to you and say whatever. But you have to see for yourself what they truly are. Hence the dating period is sort of like a test run. It's bad to be a nice guy in the dating scene. Anyone that tries to use that as means to get your attention is probably bad news. Why would you want to date nice guys anyway? Just to stop the nice guys from complaining the world is against them? Don't bother. If they have any sort of worth, they would change themselves to stop being nice guys. Not saying nice guys are doomed to virginhood, there are always suckers out there, but it's one of the least effective ways to date, whether they are nice guys or passive aggressive aholes. It makes no difference. Do not present yourself as a nice guy. I stopped being a nice guy. And it drastically improved my dating success. If i can do it, anyone can.
Author nothappyjan Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 My question to the OP would be, "did you date him b/c he was nice and you thought you'd give him a chance?". If that is the case, is it possible he figured out your interest in him wasn't 100% ( lack of attraction ) b/c other women have dated him for the same reasons? Well i was his first girlfriend and he was 28, I initially was wary about this but everyone goes on about giving inexperienced guys a chance so I did. I initially dated him because he seemed very different from any of my ex's and he seemed a pretty kind person and I like to try to date different people as I never know who will be the right one for me. I thought maybe he had been overlooked because he was a nice and quieter guy. The funny thing was my family LOVED him and he was the only guy they've really liked because he used to really suck up to my family, was actually nicer to them than to me.
Author nothappyjan Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 Also I forgot to add, after it was over he revealed how bitter he felt that I had dated before him. I think it was a pride thing he wanted me to be an untouched virgin and almost became angry when he thought about me having previous experience. Which was actually only two guys prior to him, but to him that was a huge number and made me a slut
Dust Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 The OP seems a perfect target now for the other spectrum... the "bad guy." The guy the op dated seemed to use pitty as a tool to get this girl. It's really lame and the fact that he got nasty when they broke up proves how lame this guy is. Seriously though the fact the OP was even attracted to a guy like this makes me wonder. Never give a guy a chance unless you are giving him a chance for your sake not his.
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