Question for men with anger issues

[blueskyday]

Geesh, he's a straight-up abuser. Classic. I was married to one, engaged to another, and in a relationship with a third. Thought I was going to go out of my mind because I kept picking these guys.

 

It took a lot of therapy. Not my fault. One in four people are abusers. They are charming at first. It takes a while for the mask to come off. The trick is to leave immediately, or you will stay forever giving him one excuse after another as your self-esteem is drained away with your good judgment.

 

The last ex stalked me for a year, followed my dates home, and all this after I dated him a month before breaking up. I'm good at spotting the abusers now. Quickly spotted him and broke up, even though others said he was "so nice." He also told me that he had threatened his ex-wife and was "working on it." He also carried a gun. Enough said, and I ended it.

 

No surprise when "nice guy" turned into "crazy guy."

 

RubySlippers is NOT at fault here. This guy threatened to "visit" her family. Come on, that's enough right there. He wasn't "upset" over the break up. He was an abuser upset at losing control. Classic stuff.

 

Good job, RubySlippers. When you saw it, you got out.

Edited October 16, 2011 by blueskyday

[Ruby Slippers]

I'm pretty surprised by how worked up some people have gotten about this. But I guess I shouldn't be -- this is LS, after all.

 

I started this thread to get some advice from men with anger issues and others about how best to handle ending it, both out of concern for my safety and concern for his feelings. I took the advice that made the most sense to me and used it. Thank you to everyone who gave thoughtful advice without judgment, and especially to those who defended me against unprovoked attacks. I won't forget that.

 

I'm not looking for sympathy and never was. I "made my bed", and I'm grown-up enough to lie in it.

 

Wow, *three* out-of-state family members? I don't know how one would even get that information, but I imagine getting it required a lot of digging.

He named my mom, dad, and my dad's first wife, so that tells me he must have done some kind of background check. I reminded him that I also know the names of all his immediate family members, as well as where he and they live, so it would be very foolish to take his feelings out on my family.

 

Good points. OP, what has this experience taught you?

Honestly, today I feel like crap, so what I'm thinking is that I can either be alone forever, or get with another weirdo like this who will make my life hell, since I'm obviously incapable of attracting a guy who comes anywhere near normal and healthy. So I'm trying to get into my zen zone and figure out how I can live a happy life alone. I started volunteering again recently, and I am loving that. I'll figure out more, I'm sure.

 

But once I've gotten over the bad feelings, I'm sure I can give a better answer to this question.

 

In any event, I hope this ending is clean and you can now move on without him contacting you further. It's possible. Men do it all the time. Accept the end and move on.

Well, when I ended it, I did tell him I would be friends, because I thought that would soften the fallout, and I think it did. Then he had his tantrum, and I didn't feel safe retracting the offer to be friends right then. He has called once, e-mailed twice, and texted a few times. All I've done is text back once and tell him to leave me alone for a while so I can recover from all this. And he keeps texting, but I'm ignoring it for now.

 

If the situation worsens, I'll deal with it. Specifically, if he shows up at my house unannounced, I will let him know that I'll get the police involved if he does it again.

[Ruby Slippers]

Hey Ruby, what I want to know is, what reasons did you tell him for breaking it off?

 

I wonder if his not knowing why you broke it off with him was the trigger for his anger, or if he made a big show about it and apologized simply for manipulation? I mean, you know he tried to manipulate you, was that to scare you into staying with him, or just to hurt you for breaking it off?

I missed this.

 

I made it very clear why I ended it, and he got it. The anger issues were just part of it, but the most concerning part.

 

He told me last night that he has struggled to maintain even friendships because of this kind of behavior. As I have done several times, I strongly recommended that he see a counselor one on one. He goes to group therapy once a week, but that is obviously not enough.

[carhill]

You told him by text to leave you alone. If he shows up at your house unannounced, let him talk to the guys with the guns. You'll be surprised how polite he'll be. What I'm doing here is suggesting a boundary and how to enforce it. Feel free to disregard. I hope it doesn't come to that. Good luck.

[blueskyday]

Yes, Carhill is right. These guys don't respect women, but they sure back down to the police. Every time.

 

Once you have notified him that you no longer want any contact with him, he is crosssing a boundary by continuing to contact you. Of course, boundaries don't mean a thing to him.

 

If he comes to your home, DO NOT answer the door, no matter what! Call the police and they will gladly drive by and ask him what he is doing....while you stay nice and safe inside.

 

Once he knows the authorities are watching him, he will respect that. Carhill is right: let him talk to the guys with the guns. Not you.

[Ruby Slippers]

The last ex stalked me for a year, followed my dates home, and all this after I dated him a month before breaking up.

Man. This concerns me a little. Last night, he said, "I can try to be friends with you, but I don't think I can handle you seeing other people." Bleh.

 

I'm good at spotting the abusers now.

What are the signs up front? Because I am way too idealistic and tend to look for the best in people.

[Ruby Slippers]

If he comes to your home, DO NOT answer the door, no matter what! Call the police and they will gladly drive by and ask him what he is doing....while you stay nice and safe inside.

 

Once he knows the authorities are watching him, he will respect that. Carhill is right: let him talk to the guys with the guns. Not you.

OK, I agree. If he shows up here, that's what I'll do.

[ptp]

What kind of man wants a girl to stay with him out of fear? I mean seriously that is so pathetic. You did nothing wrong, it is sad that things took a turn for the worse.

 

Anyway Ruby, I got your back.

 

Is he smaller than 6'1" 210lbs? If so point me in his direction.

[blueskyday]

I also see the best in people and am idealistic! I've learned that being a bright happy person attracts all kinds of people, good and bad....but I have learned to look out for these red flags to weed out the bad guys:

 

1. Dishonesty. You will catch him in little lies.

 

2. Words and actions don't match up. Inconsistent.

 

3. Controlling. Might come across as caring at first, but crosses the line...They know "what's best for you" always.

 

4. Critical of others...and you, eventually.

 

5. Anger issues (as you know). Bad temper. History of anger, abuse toward animals or people. (Therapy is the only way to reprogram an abuser. Even then, there is a low chance of real change.)

 

6. Lack of empathy. (This is the major sign). He/she will not care about your feelings. They will only care about their own.

 

7. A sense of entitlement. This will extend to not having to deal with your feelings. They will hurt you in some way and not want to deal with your emotions. They want to be "right." Very Ego-driven. Won't give in.

 

8. A gut feeling something is off.

 

9. They will often move quickly, trying to sweep you off your feet before you can question them too much. They seem "perfect," as in very caring and sensitive...but watch them over time. A real sensitive person will be CONSISTENTLY SO. An abuser can't keep it up for very long.

 

10. They blame others for everything. Never their fault.

 

There are many more signs online you can look up. These are just the ones I know from experience.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about this guy stalking you. As long as you get the police involved, he will go away. I made the mistake of trying to stay friends so I wouldn't make him mad. Big mistake. He only backed off when the authorities got involved and when I cut off all contact...so be firm, and never ever break down and get into a discussion with him again...Think of it as emotional bait and don't take it.

 

Good luck. There are great guys out there. Just take your time, and know that your protective instincts were working when they told you to get away from this guy!

Edited October 16, 2011 by blueskyday

[Ruby Slippers]

I also see the best in people and am idealistic! I've learned that being a bright happy person attracts all kinds of people, good and bad....

Last week, on the way to volunteering, this guy sitting next to me on transit starting talking to me. But I had just decided to end it with this guy, so I was feeling wary of men period. After some initial conversation, he starts telling me his sob story about how he got carjacked and was in a coma for 2 weeks. Then he asked for my number. Do I have a sign on my forehead that says "Losers and victims of the world, apply here"?

 

Thanks for the list. The only thing on it that I noticed in him was a tendency to blame anyone but himself for his problems. And then right at the end, he admitted to the anger issues. I will certainly be far more careful in the future.

 

I made the mistake of trying to stay friends so I wouldn't make him mad. Big mistake. He only backed off when the authorities got involved and when I cut off all contact...so be firm, and never ever break down and get into a discussion with him again...Think of it as emotional bait and don't take it.

Oh, that's what I was trying to do, too. I'm pretty sure that if I insist upon no contact, he'll just get more agitated, and probably show up here. He told me being ignored is what triggered the worst of his behavior in the past, and I was trying to avoid that. But I guess I just have to deal with it, if that's what he resorts to.

[blueskyday]

11. Defensive when questioned, however innocently (leads back to entitlement: How dare you question me or have a feeling!)

[Ruby Slippers]

What kind of man wants a girl to stay with him out of fear? I mean seriously that is so pathetic. You did nothing wrong, it is sad that things took a turn for the worse.

 

Anyway Ruby, I got your back.

 

Is he smaller than 6'1" 210lbs? If so point me in his direction.

Thanks, sweetheart. It's good to be reminded there are good guys out there.

[Art_Critic]

I feel like I'm about to completely snap. A whole new definition of rage. I can't even focus my eyes at this point.

 

Grrrrr....

 

Wonder what happened to this angry poster

[orion1010]

I think you have the pronouns confused. She didn't string him along. She was perfectly honest about her intentions. He is an adult at 26 and I would hold HIM, not her, fully responsible for HIS decision to not walk away if that relationship was not what he wanted. One she told him that she didn't want a full relationship, HE had a decision to make.

 

In my book, making threats against family members is way worse than a 'toddler tantrum'. It IS abusive, and he has HIMSELF said that he has been abusive in the past. There is nothing she has done, nothing at all, that justifies him threatening her. Nothing.

 

Also, I don't know where you get the idea that RS "is ready to put a restraining order on him"? There's nothing in her posts that indicate that.

 

If a woman is a 'drama queen' because she reacts to a man's abusive past, then that's a very odd definition of a drama queen IMO.

 

 

Very well said.. I totally agree with your post. I have been following this and had a feeling he would react this way. I'm very happy the OP was in public and is safe and I hope she stays that way along with her family.

[orion1010]

If she had a brain cell she wouldn't have put herself in a potentially dangerous and volatile situation. That's the point I am making. I think she did the right thing and I hope this lunatic leaves her alone. But this "I'm a damsal in distress" doesn't wash with me.

 

 

That statement is totally uncalled for! Shame on you!!

[carhill]

The setting is Washington State, mid 1970's.....

 

'Five female witnesses described a handsome young man wearing a white tennis outfit with his left arm in a sling, speaking with a light accent, perhaps Canadian, perhaps British. Introducing himself as "Ted", he asked their help in unloading a sailboat from his tan- or bronze-colored Volkswagen Beetle. Four refused; one accompanied him as far as his car, saw that there was no sailboat, and fled. Three additional witnesses saw him approach Janice Anne Ott, 23, a probation case worker at the King County Juvenile Court, with the sailboat story, and watched her leave the beach in his company'

 

Since 'Ted' kinda gives it away, here's the punch line:

 

'During this period Bundy was working at the Washington State Department of Emergency Services (DES) in Olympia—a government agency involved in the search for the missing women.'

 

He was 27.

 

Obviously, this guy (the OP's lover) is no Ted, thank God, but it does underscore the realities of what women face out in the world, especially in this day and age of portability and virtual relations. Increasingly, with regard to gender relations, men face similar issues. A marked example is that of a lovely old lady who recently died at age 82 of natural causes at the prison near me; she simply killed elderly and mentally disabled boarders if they complained about her cashing their benefit checks and keeping the money, then buried them in the back yard. Wouldn't you trust a nice old lady? She wouldn't hurt a fly and look at the nice cookies she's baking for you.

 

Such are the realities of life.

[Tybalt]

Ruby, I have a book recommendation for you. I just finished reading Gavin de Becker's book "The Gift of Fear". He talks specifically about how to deal with threats from former intimates. The gist of it is that for the stalker/pursuer/threatener, the relationship in whatever form is like a drug of sorts. Weaning does not work (i.e. small doses of engagement), and sometimes restraining orders can make things worse as it is a form of further engagement, and causes the pursuer to be humiliated and can actually escalate the situation.

 

He states that the most effective strategy is to be unequivocably clear that you want no relationship, and then become as completely unavailable as possible and let the person "detox" from the situation. No contact from the person, about the person, etc. If they break a law, they should be prosecuted and face the results of their crime, but it is far safer to avoid than engage and "make them stop."

 

It may not come to this, but one suggestion he makes is that you get a new number, leave the old one going, and then do not look at or respond to the contacts the stalking individual makes. Have a friend check the messages, and over time give your new number out until the only one who ever calls/texts your old phone is him. You won't be upset and tempted to answer, he won't be spending time trying to find your new number because your old one is disconnected. In addition, you will have evidence that can be given to authorities if necessary. Sooner or later, if you never respond the stalker often gives up.

 

I found the book pretty interesting and it has prompted me to trust my intuition more, which is helping me too. I agree paranoia can come into play in some situations, but some of the best advice I have ever gotten was to "trust my gut." If it doesn't feel right, it isn't.

[ascendotum]

I also think this has been blown out of proportion with descriptors like lunatic, abuser, psycho, potential murderer. The mentioning other family members during the breakup was pathetic & a little perturbing, but all up I think his exit went as expected. She did break up with him for this very reason, that she was expecting this to happen…. and it did. FWB by their nature are not long-term. Their needs to be an exit strategy and generally someone is not going to want it to end, Ruby's reason for doing so was quite reasonable, though I did find the sudden turn on him surprising, as I've been reading posts about how she was encouraging him to improve his physique in the gym and to making changes to his life to make himself a better person with lots of love hearts.

 

I had the impression he was not a friend to start with and merely a hot looking F buddy. There were aspects about him that already precluded him form a LTR, beyond anger issues which I gather she had no idea of until he fessed up. Maybe I have missed the post, but I didn’t see where he made any specific threats to her. I don't get his reason for divulging that information about his past, but anyway it shows here it’s a great strategy if a guy wants to exit a relationship.

 

Ruby I had the impression you are an attractive successful woman and have admitted you are not fussy when it somes to guys, I don't get why you say you cant attract a guy who is normal and healthy. (if you have trouble then no surprises the less outgoing avg joe's here have it hard) I suspect you might be going for style/looks over substance guys, but I dont know, but I just see it with other women I know who are doing the FB thing with hot guys because they are forced to because the guys they want wont commit.

[Ruby Slippers]

Ruby's reason for doing so was quite reasonable, though I did find the sudden turn on him surprising, as I've been reading posts about how she was encouraging him to improve his physique in the gym and to making changes to his life to make himself a better person with lots of love hearts.

I didn't go into all the details here about what he told me, but one part in particular was chilling and really did scare me -- and I am NOT easily rattled. And his behavior after telling me about the anger issues just got worse. Every instinct I have told me I had to end it, or I could be setting myself up for some serious risk. A person with anger issues like his will not manage a healthy relationship unless he sees a therapist and comes up with healthy outlets and coping mechanisms. He didn't say, "I have anger issues, I've worked on them, and now they are under control." He said he struggles with them and suggested they might be a threat to me.

 

I suspect you might be going for style/looks over substance guys, but I dont know, but I just see it with other women I know who are doing the FB thing with hot guys because they are forced to because the guys they want wont commit.

That is definitely not the case. I'm pretty hippie in my attitude and prefer down-to-earth, non-flashy guys with depth and smarts. I seem to attract two main types of men: good-looking alpha guys who are obviously looking to get sex quickly with minimal effort (I immediately rule these types out), and guys who I think are pretty cool and seem relatively normal, but are so insecure they ruin it for themselves. I would prefer to date the second kind of guy, but their insecurities always interfere.

 

But I have begun meeting people in new circles (such as volunteering), so hopefully this will improve.

[dispatch3d]

He's just confiding in you.

[betterdeal]

The setting is Washington State, mid 1970's.....

 

'Five female witnesses described a handsome young man wearing a white tennis outfit with his left arm in a sling, speaking with a light accent, perhaps Canadian, perhaps British. Introducing himself as "Ted", he asked their help in unloading a sailboat from his tan- or bronze-colored Volkswagen Beetle. Four refused; one accompanied him as far as his car, saw that there was no sailboat, and fled. Three additional witnesses saw him approach Janice Anne Ott, 23, a probation case worker at the King County Juvenile Court, with the sailboat story, and watched her leave the beach in his company'

 

Since 'Ted' kinda gives it away, here's the punch line:

 

'During this period Bundy was working at the Washington State Department of Emergency Services (DES) in Olympia—a government agency involved in the search for the missing women.'

 

He was 27.

 

Obviously, this guy (the OP's lover) is no Ted, thank God, but it does underscore the realities of what women face out in the world, especially in this day and age of portability and virtual relations. Increasingly, with regard to gender relations, men face similar issues. A marked example is that of a lovely old lady who recently died at age 82 of natural causes at the prison near me; she simply killed elderly and mentally disabled boarders if they complained about her cashing their benefit checks and keeping the money, then buried them in the back yard. Wouldn't you trust a nice old lady? She wouldn't hurt a fly and look at the nice cookies she's baking for you.

 

Such are the realities of life.

 

So it turns out these "realities of life" are the same as the reality of winning the lottery, then being hit by lightening on the same day. A vanishingly small chance in other words. So small one could actually ignore it and get through life without it actually happening and preserve ones happiness and freedom at the same time.

[carhill]

If it's your day, it's your day.

 

Seeking to minimize the very real anecdotes I share doesn't really further any meaningful discussion, so I'll not waste my time further.

 

I hope lightening never strikes you.

[betterdeal]

I also think this has been blown out of proportion with descriptors like lunatic, abuser, psycho, potential murderer. The mentioning other family members during the breakup was pathetic & a little perturbing, but all up I think his exit went as expected.

 

I agree. Cock up or conspiracy? Cock up. Professor Moriarty or bog standard dickhead? Dickhead. People ought to know about Occam's Razor by now.

 

She did break up with him for this very reason, that she was expecting this to happen…. and it did. FWB by their nature are not long-term. Their needs to be an exit strategy and generally someone is not going to want it to end, Ruby's reason for doing so was quite reasonable, though I did find the sudden turn on him surprising, as I've been reading posts about how she was encouraging him to improve his physique in the gym and to making changes to his life to make himself a better person with lots of love hearts.

 

The change of tone between them seemed mutual. My guess is he told her about his temper tantrums with a subconscious acceptance that things had reached a natural watershed, where they either get properly emotionally involved or bust up and move on. The lust waning and the sex being less effective at distracting them from life's other aspects and challenges, something needed to change.

[betterdeal]

If it's your day, it's your day.

 

Seeking to minimize the very real anecdotes I share doesn't really further any meaningful discussion, so I'll not waste my time further.

 

I hope lightening never strikes you.

 

Yes, dear.

[carhill]

I'd also like to add that my comments were in response to a now banned and excised poster, so your read of the remaining posts may not reflect all the content previously there. It's good to see moderators handling men with anger issues.