eerie_reverie Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I think people are tearing you apart for lack of anything better to do, iris. I'm with ya on the drinking. Drinking is fun and beer is delicious. It's a great facilitator for conversation and something to do other than judge the stranger sitting in front of you. My fave date is going to a rooftop bar to eat and try new beers. I've started all my relationships with drinks, and it was never a problem later on. Once we got past the awkward getting to know you phase, alcohol was rarely involved. Personally, I think it's disturbing how militantly anti-alcohol some people in this thread are. Kinda like they don't trust themselves to be able to handle their liquor.
norajane Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I just realized there's no way I'd want to go a first date that doesn't involve alcohol. A coworker just asked me out (that should be another thread!). He suggested coffee or drinks. There's no way I'd want to do coffee. Spending an evening drinking coffee and talking to a practical stranger sounds awful! If I have to talk some dude I'm probably not going to want to see again (honestly, isn't that what usually happens?), I at least want to have a drink so it doesn't seem like a total waste of time. Also, getting coffee just seems like an excuse, whereas a drink is a more social and natural thing to do in the evening. Coffee is like "Hey, let's pretend to want to drink coffee while we figure out if we'd like to sleep together." No thanks! FTR, I'm not a big drinker. I don't drink at home and when I go out, I'll have 1-2 drinks. Is this weird? Does anyone else feel this way? I know what you mean. First dates can be so disappointingly dull if there's no spark, and most of the time there isn't. I have learned never to go on a dinner date as a first date, especially to a fancy restaurant where they serve many courses and it takes hours for dinner to be over. A drink can make a first date a little easier. Unfortunately, even a drink doesn't make them more interesting if they aren't interesting. I have gone on first dates with just coffee or whatever, no drinks. But, usually those are with people I already know somewhat and already know that I enjoy their company. I don't see anything wrong with having a drink on a date, or feeling like you need a drink to make a first date go a little smoother or be more fun. But then, I don't see anything wrong with drinking in the first place, as long as you know your tolerance and limits.
thatone Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I think people are tearing you apart for lack of anything better to do, iris. I'm with ya on the drinking. Drinking is fun and beer is delicious. It's a great facilitator for conversation and something to do other than judge one another. My fave date is going to a rooftop bar to eat and try new beers. I've started all my relationships with drinks, and it was never a problem later on. Once we got past the awkward getting to know you phase, alcohol was rarely involved. Personally, I think it's disturbing how militantly anti-alcohol some people in this thread are. Kinda like they don't trust themselves to be able to handle their liquor. that makes 3 of us. except i'm a whiskey drinker not a beer drinker . i really don't get it. if anything, i'm MORE honest after a couple of drinks, because the effect removes the need to worry about what someone will assume about what i say.
eerie_reverie Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 i really don't get it. if anything, i'm MORE honest after a couple of drinks, because the effect removes the need to worry about what someone will assume about what i say. Yup. I have found this to be true for myself and everyone I have ever drank with as well.
Author iris219 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 I think people are tearing you apart for lack of anything better to do, iris. I'm with ya on the drinking. Drinking is fun and beer is delicious. It's a great facilitator for conversation and something to do other than judge the stranger sitting in front of you. My fave date is going to a rooftop bar to eat and try new beers. I've started all my relationships with drinks, and it was never a problem later on. Once we got past the awkward getting to know you phase, alcohol was rarely involved. Personally, I think it's disturbing how militantly anti-alcohol some people in this thread are. Kinda like they don't trust themselves to be able to handle their liquor. I know what you mean. First dates can be so disappointingly dull if there's no spark, and most of the time there isn't. I have learned never to go on a dinner date as a first date, especially to a fancy restaurant where they serve many courses and it takes hours for dinner to be over. A drink can make a first date a little easier. Unfortunately, even a drink doesn't make them more interesting if they aren't interesting. I have gone on first dates with just coffee or whatever, no drinks. But, usually those are with people I already know somewhat and already know that I enjoy their company. I don't see anything wrong with having a drink on a date, or feeling like you need a drink to make a first date go a little smoother or be more fun. But then, I don't see anything wrong with drinking in the first place, as long as you know your tolerance and limits. I didn't take the criticism to heart; it was just surprising. Thankfully, I don't know people, whether they drink or not, who are so critical of those who prefer to. Glad to see that there are people who don’t equate drinking on dates with alcoholism, social anxiety, or a boring personality.
Cypress25 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Personally, I think it's disturbing how militantly anti-alcohol some people in this thread are. Kinda like they don't trust themselves to be able to handle their liquor. Oh, you're right! If only I could handle my liquor, my life would be so much better! No but seriously. I'm not anti-alcohol, I'm anti "OMG, I can't handle one date without alcohol, what am I gonna do if we both have to be sober for a whole hour?!" That's just pathetic. Nothing wrong with drinking if that's what you like to do, but sheesh, it shouldn't be your life preserver.
WhiteChocolate Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I don't think conversation is better with alcohol. I like fun, quick-witted conversation and alcohol dulls the wits . The conversation might SEEM better because everything is funnier when you are tipsy. But when I think back on what I said, it just seems kinda dumb... I suppose being more honest can be true. But I find it strange that alcohol makes it easier to be honest; shouldn't honesty already be a habit? Oh well, I personally don't drink much because I'm lightweight. One shot is pretty much all I can handle.
Cypress25 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I don't know people, whether they drink or not, who are so critical of those who prefer to. Like I said, there's a difference between people who prefer to drink and people who need to drink. Glad to see that there are people who don’t equate drinking on dates with alcoholism, social anxiety, or a boring personality. It's the same difference between drinking on dates and needing to drink on dates. Do you see the difference? Alcohol is not the problem. Your dependence on it is the problem.
Author iris219 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 Like I said, there's a difference between people who prefer to drink and people who need to drink. It's the same difference between drinking on dates and needing to drink on dates. Do you see the difference? Alcohol is not the problem. Your dependence on it is the problem. I'm definitely not dependent on alcohol. I prefer to drink; I in no way need to. I also prefer guys who prefer to drink on first dates. That way, everyone is happy.
thatone Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I don't think conversation is better with alcohol. I like fun, quick-witted conversation and alcohol dulls the wits . The conversation might SEEM better because everything is funnier when you are tipsy. But when I think back on what I said, it just seems kinda dumb... I suppose being more honest can be true. But I find it strange that alcohol makes it easier to be honest; shouldn't honesty already be a habit? Oh well, I personally don't drink much because I'm lightweight. One shot is pretty much all I can handle. perhaps open is a better word than honest. it's a fine line. and i'm with ya on the quick witted conversation. but some people get nervous, some people are indifferent, some people bring loads of inhibitions, some people are just their normal selves. alcohol tears down a lot of those walls and lets people just say what pops into their heads. i don't think that's a bad thing.
Author iris219 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 Funny, slightly relevant true story that just occurred: My friend just got annoyed with me for refusing to drink. He wants me to go to this beer festival with him. I don’t like drinking during the day, so I declined. Finally, I said I would go, but that I wasn’t drinking. He said that was lame and that I had to drink something!
Cypress25 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I'm definitely not dependent on alcohol. I prefer to drink; I in no way need to. Then you won't mind going on a date without alcohol. You'll be just fine. Now you can do whatever you want on a date, without worrying that you may not be able to procure alcohol. Yay, problem solved! I also prefer guys who prefer to drink on first dates. That way, everyone is happy. What makes you think a guy can't be happy without a drink? Because you can't be happy without a drink? Look, the only reason drinkers want other people to drink is because they want people to validate their habits. Most people don't care if other people drink. If everyone is having a good time, why should it bother you if you're the only one drinking? some people are just their normal selves Those people are awesome. I love those people. Finally, I said I would go, but that I wasn’t drinking. He said that was lame and that I had to drink something! Yeah, he wants you to validate his habits. Why does he care what you drink? And why does he think you're lame if you're not drinking? Really, he just insulted you.
Woggle Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I like a good drink as much as anybody else but if you can't have fun sober it is a problem.
Thieves Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Personally, I think it's disturbing how militantly anti-alcohol some people in this thread are. Kinda like they don't trust themselves to be able to handle their liquor. Please. Don't flatter yourself on your ability to handle liquor, or attempt to comment on other people's. A lot of people who have said something about Iris' situation do drink, enjoy it, and don't mind it at all. Including me. But she asked, we told. I've started all my relationships with drinks, and it was never a problem later on. Once we got past the awkward getting to know you phase, alcohol was rarely involved. That alcohol was needed in the first 'awkward phase' is the whole point. Personally, I think it sounds like a bit of a problem when alcohol absolutely must be involved on first dates, or they'll feel uncomfortable. Kinda like they don't trust to be their sober self around someone they don't know. We're not equating her desire to drink on dates with social anxiety or a boring personality, but she does need to know that it brings up concern to some of us. It rings a bell, and not a totally normal one. And honestly, if people really think that they are more "honest" after they drink than when sober, well... I'm not even going to go fully into that. Really, if that's true, then they should probably work on that particular character flaw. Anyone can be 'more honest' when they're drunk. To be able to do that when sober is more impressive. True, alcohol can encourage honesty, but it can also encourage people to say some stupid, unwise sh*t. As we all well know.
denise_xo Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Please. Don't flatter yourself on your ability to handle liquor, or attempt to comment on other people's. A lot of people who have said something about Iris' situation do drink, enjoy it, and don't mind it at all. Including me. But she asked, we told. That alcohol was needed in the first 'awkward phase' is the whole point. Personally, I think it sounds like a bit of a problem when alcohol absolutely must be involved on first dates, or they'll feel uncomfortable. Kinda like they don't trust to be their sober self around someone they don't know. We're not equating her desire to drink on dates with social anxiety or a boring personality, but she does need to know that it brings up concern to some of us. It rings a bell, and not a totally normal one. And honestly, if people really think that they are more "honest" after they drink than when sober, well... I'm not even going to go fully into that. Really, if that's true, then they should probably work on that particular character flaw. Anyone can be 'more honest' when they're drunk. To be able to do that when sober is more impressive. True, alcohol can encourage honesty, but it can also encourage people to say some stupid, unwise sh*t. As we all well know. Fully agree with this, especially the bit in bold.
veggirl Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I definitely drink, but I find drinking on a first date to be a bit tacky. If it's one drink with dinner, fine, but if you are going to the bar to drink on a date...not a date. Depending on what you've eaten, just 1 or 2 drinks can cloud your judgment, give you those "feelings" for someone that you DON'T really have, etc. I do agree it sounds like some of you need alcohol to relax or have fun or have a stimulating conversation.
Mme. Chaucer Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I know how you feel. I don't drink at all because I'm a former addict who has forsworn all mind altering stuff - though alcohol itself was never an issue for me. When my ex husband and I got together many years ago, I was still indulging. After our divorce, I had to face dating completely sober for the first time in my life. I was full of dread. Actually … it was pretty bad. I am shy, and booze is a great social lubricant. I'd NEVER had a first kiss with a guy (since 7th grade) or, heaven forbid, first sex stone cold sober until the past couple of years, with my current husband. I was terrified and so self conscious. Honestly, until it finally happened, I could not IMAGINE being able to make out or have sex with a new partner without "relaxation" help. So, I understand completely. Those things would have been easier, more fun and stressless if I could have softened them up with some drinks. The reason I'm telling you all this is that I personally believe that this underlying personality of mine is exactly the reason that I ended up with a substance abuse problem. I'm not suggesting in ANY way that you do. But, I think you might want to take care. Feeling an anxiety about social situations faced without alcohol might be a red flag for yourself, about you. Might. I hope you will work on being able to date comfortably without any alcohol. Maybe, force yourself to do it once in a while.
Author iris219 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 I feel like many of you are misunderstanding me. I'm not nervous or uncomfortable on dates. I've been on coffee and lunch dates which obviously don't involve alcohol and I feel the same as I do on dates with alcohol: bored and disappointed. Even when I'm mildly entertained, I'm still disappointed. If I have a choice between being bored and disappointed with a drink or without one, I choose with. My problem is apathy, not anxiety.
eerie_reverie Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 That alcohol was needed in the first 'awkward phase' is the whole point. Personally, I think it sounds like a bit of a problem when alcohol absolutely must be involved on first dates, or they'll feel uncomfortable. Kinda like they don't trust to be their sober self around someone they don't know. What exactly IS the problem with this? It's not IDEAL to being 100% comfortable always, but what's the big deal? What are the possible consequences?
denise_xo Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 What exactly IS the problem with this? It's not IDEAL to being 100% comfortable always, but what's the big deal? What are the possible consequences? To me, the problem is that I see it as a sign of someone who is not very comfortable with him/herself if there is a need to hide behind alcohol. I can relate to that feeling as I felt like that in my teens and very early twenties. I therefore associate it with a lack of maturity that I would currently want to avoid in a partner, if I was dating. I want a person who feels comfortable in his own skin, and who doesn't need any kind of drug and stimulants to spend some time with me. I don't expect the person to be 100% comfortable or feel completely on top of the situation, but I'm not at this point in time looking for someone who turns to alcohol as a recourse for those kind of issues. As for iris' case, I wouldn't want to date someone who drinks because they're bored with me, either
Mme. Chaucer Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 If I have a choice between being bored and disappointed with a drink or without one, I choose with. My problem is apathy, not anxiety. I think that you are in a very bad place to be exploring relationships, if this is the case. And - I hate to jump on the bandwagon with the haters, but you don't sound like you are going to be very good company, with an attitude like that. I firmly believe that only boring people are bored.
zengirl Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I think people are tearing you apart for lack of anything better to do, iris. I'm with ya on the drinking. Drinking is fun and beer is delicious. It's a great facilitator for conversation and something to do other than judge the stranger sitting in front of you. My fave date is going to a rooftop bar to eat and try new beers. I've started all my relationships with drinks, and it was never a problem later on. Once we got past the awkward getting to know you phase, alcohol was rarely involved. Personally, I think it's disturbing how militantly anti-alcohol some people in this thread are. Kinda like they don't trust themselves to be able to handle their liquor. I love beer and wine and drink pretty regularly. I do go long stretches without. I just don't think seeing a drink as something to "help you get through the night" is a really good way to go. It's not alcoholism, but it's a stepping stone. A lot of people do it to some degree. . . a drink after a hard day, one to get to sleep, one to feel at ease, etc. What concerns me about iris's attitude is actually more her preoccupation on whether the other person is drinking. That's kind of odd. And her general attitude about dates and how unhappy she is with them. Anyway, my point is, you can disagree with iris and not be anti-alcohol. There are some red flags in what she says. Not to the point where I'd think she was really dysfunctional or anything, but most of us have some issues and any issues with substances are worth at least examining BEFORE they become actual problems. Or, as Woggle says: I like a good drink as much as anybody else but if you can't have fun sober it is a problem. If I have a choice between being bored and disappointed with a drink or without one, I choose with. My problem is apathy, not anxiety. That's just a bummer.
Author iris219 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 I think that you are in a very bad place to be exploring relationships, if this is the case. And - I hate to jump on the bandwagon with the haters, but you don't sound like you are going to be very good company, with an attitude like that. I firmly believe that only boring people are bored. Try not being bored (annoyed might be a better word) when a guy talks in detail about his therapy sessions for the majority of the date. Before that, I carried the entire conversation. His therapy (which he said he will be in forever because he loves it) was the only subject he was engaged in. Or the guy who kept bringing up all the model hot chicks he had slept with. Or the guy who claimed to be separated, but then revealed he still lived with his wife. I just don't have the energy for all that. Actually, I am good company and I'm good at making the best out of a bad situation. The guys I go on dates with want to continue dating, but I refuse.
Mme. Chaucer Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 When I was dating (OLD), I would meet a guy for coffee or a walk somewhere. If he was a tedious person, I certainly would NEVER find myself in a situation where his mind numbing conversation would dominate much of my time. Same went for the guys with regards to me, I'm sure. If you go on actual dates, regularly, with people who are so unstimulating that you feel you need alcohol in order to endure the situation - that's on you. You should stop.
zengirl Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 When I was dating (OLD), I would meet a guy for coffee or a walk somewhere. If he was a tedious person, I certainly would NEVER find myself in a situation where his mind numbing conversation would dominate much of my time. Same went for the guys with regards to me, I'm sure. If you go on actual dates, regularly, with people who are so unstimulating that you feel you need alcohol in order to endure the situation - that's on you. You should stop. Exactly. I mean, if you just want to go grab a drink, go with a friend or heck, even alone, rather than with someone tedious. That's the whole reason for the coffee date is it's FAST. If the person is tedious. . . you sip your latte quickly, say goodbye, and leave. All you're doing, iris, with going on tedious dates and using alcohol to make them slightly less tedious is giving yourself further bad dating experiences, which will likely attract more bad dating experiences.
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