Tangerine Lipgloss Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Can someone give me some non-judgemental help/advice? I am married for the second time but unhappily. We have separated a couple of times. This is my situation. A friend has fallen for me and I for him. We are friends for over 25 years (since high school). We always got along and he was always sweet and protective of me. Nothing ever happened until this year when he made a move one night when we were alone for a short time after going out. We made out/touched but we have not had sex. We are not in contact with one another and see each other socially in a group only. However he has been affectionate with me since then and it included kissing when no one was around briefly at a couple of parties. He is usually near me though and touches me if no one is looking (like rubbing my back/hair/leg/knee) Or he'll sit next to me or stand near me in the group. Here’s the really big problem. It is an impossible situation as he is married to my friend. I met him when they started dating, so he was never available to me and I never gave it a thought. They have been married since we were young and have older kids. To further complicate things, my female friend is having a thing with another guy that lives far away. He does not know this. I don’t think they are all that happy but I know they will not divorce. It sounds like a cheesy soap opera. I am trying to lay low and only be around him when lots of people are there. It is very hard and there are genuine feelings, friendship and the chemistry is very hot. I know it is wrong and I know it is impossible to be together. Just writing this out, helps thanks.
Owl Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Focus on fixing your own issues without getting into what others have going on first. You're married...you shouldn't be doing the things you're doing with him at this point anyways. Fix your marriage situation...or end it. As far as what's going on with this other man and woman...you need to drop out of that situation and let them deal with their stuff while you focus on yours. Once that's done...then see if he's free and wanting to be with you...or not. Simple enough...not easy...but simple. Focus on your part of this situation.
carhill Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Welcome to LS This is a tough one. All long-time marrieds (you on your second but total married time is long) who apparently like/want/are compelled to being coupled, even if the couplings are unhappy. My standard advice would be to end your M now. Perhaps that's still valid advice, but I'll modify it with getting some individual counseling to assist in the process, since you are apparently vulnerable to an affair. Questions: In your entire lifetime from the age of first sexual activity, what is the longest continuous time you've been 'alone', meaning outside of a relationship/dating/cohabiting/marriage with a man. As an example, I haven't dated at all in the year since my divorce was final. I have married male and female friends. No romance. That kind of 'alone'. Was infidelity a feature of your marriage? If so, who, when and how? Do you acknowledge that you already are engaged in a physical and emotional affair? This is hard. Most MW's I've been with would never call what they had with me an 'affair', since we never had intercourse. What's your perception? You've acknowledged that you each have 'fallen' for each other, have 'made out' and apparently share 'feelings'. Did you know of your female friend's indiscretions when this 'situation' arose between yourself and her husband? If no, at what point after, meaning at what point of your interactions with him? What's your plan? IC can help with it and tools to implement it.
Author Tangerine Lipgloss Posted October 10, 2011 Author Posted October 10, 2011 Owl, Thank you for your response. I am staying out of their relationship issues and I am leaving them alone. I am laying low. I had a long talk with my hub last week. I don't know how it's going to go with us. I am at a watchful waiting point with our relationship. My hub is a heavy drinker with a lot of issues and I don't think we are going to make it. He is not open to AA or counselling. I appreciate your advice, thank you so much.
sadcalifornian Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Don't complicate your life. Your line of thinking is very shady and lacking boundaries. You say your M is unhappy, but that does not justify this adulterous relationship with OM. You have to make a decision whether your M is good enough to honor and stay in or bad enough to D. If you don't plan to D, then that means you have to respect it and act like a married woman. Your narration of your situation is full of ramblings of this and that, as if that is how you want to rationalize this situation somehow. You are either faithful or unfaithful. You are either honorable or not honorable. You are either a married woman with integrity or an adulteress. What are you exactly? Just because OM seems somewhat unhappy with his M, it does not mean he plans to leave his M, no? Or, are you wishing he would so that you can leave your own M to join him? From what I hear, things are not so bad in either end, and I don't think either of you are planning that far ahead during this infatuation stage. You have to take control of your life as to what you want to do. If you do not see the clear reason to leave your M to start something serious with him, then you know the answer what to do. From what I see, this relationship will lead anywhere but to an utter disaster for 2 families. Do not let yourself go with the flow of whatever makes you happy for the moment. Think things thru and see what is the right thing to do. And, have some respect for your H. I don't see anywhere mentioning how hurtful your behavior is to your H. Does he mean so little to you? Is he that bad? Do you have kids? Sorry, my comment may seem a bit judgemental contrary to your request, but I couldn't help it.
sadcalifornian Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 I didn't see the 2nd post you left. OK, if the current M is so volatile now, then you may be thinking of possible D soon. Even so, don't take the relationship with OM to the next level. If there is something real between you and OM, you can always start things later after D, if it comes to that. You do not want to end your current M with your infidelity thrown in the mix. I think you should work on your M first to see if it is salvageable.
Author Tangerine Lipgloss Posted October 10, 2011 Author Posted October 10, 2011 Carhill, Thank you for responding to me. As you can read above, my husband is not open to counselling. I will consider IC. For now I am trying to focus on myself and what I need to live a happy productive life. To answer your questions: I started dating when I was 15. My first love and I broke up right before our wedding due to cheating on his part. I dated a guy for 2 months right after that. Then I was totally single for 3 years. (1990-1993) In 1993 I met my first husband, we were together 6 years (married 3). We separated and started the divorce process. There was no cheating. There were many issues however, he was not open to counselling. I was totally alone for one year. I lived alone, focused on myself, my family, friends and work. I met my nowhusband in 2000, married in 2003. I realize I have been unfaithful to my husband. It is an affair of sorts I guess. My female friend told me that she was back in touch with an old BF last year sometime I don't remember exactly when as she didn't go into any detail. He lives in another country and I remember him as someone she once liked before she got involved with now husband. My friends started dating right after high school graduation. (more than 25 yrs ago). She recently travelled to the other guys country in August. and told me that she got together with him (no intercourse) in Sept. The mess with her husband and me started in June. My plan is I don't have a plan. I'm confused and I don't want to be involved in this.
Author Tangerine Lipgloss Posted October 10, 2011 Author Posted October 10, 2011 SadCalifornian: I don't want to be in an adulterous affair. I am not happy about this whole situation. I will never be with the OM. It is impossible. I know there will be pain and I don't want to be a part of it. I'm not hoping he will divorce. I needed to write this out in black and white to deal with it. I don't have anyone to talk to. I'm not trying to be shady, just laying out the facts. Thanks for your post.
carhill Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) OP, thanks for the response. Reading further, I think a combination of Al-Anon and IC could be helpful, if nothing else to balance this dynamic and help you clearly formulate a plan for *yourself*. I suggest this because, even if you were to decide to divorce tomorrow, dealing with the realities of an alcoholic during the process is as good a reason as any to get help from Al-Anon. IC can help with general clarity and tools to balance how you perceive both your path as well as this path you've walked briefly with your friend's husband, not to mention dealing with her long-term if you retain the friendship. It appears you have discontinued your interactions with the married man. Total NC (no contact) would be most appropriate if discontinuance is part of your plan. That might be difficult to explain to your female friend, but it is possible. So, let's call NC, for this week anyway, step #1. Step #2 could be as easy as calling Al-Anon to find out when the next meeting is, or calling up a couple IC's to see when an appointment is available. The calls take a few minutes and, generally, meetings/sessions are an hour or so. Not much time out of a person's week, right? Stop at the store and do some shopping on the way home to make things more efficient. No problem. No lifetime commitments are involved and you're not bound to follow any paths offered. It's Monday. Two steps for one week. That's plenty. Enjoy the week Edited October 10, 2011 by carhill
Quiet Storm Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 If you are married to an alcoholic, you likely feel very neglected in your marriage. This can make you very vulnerable to male attention. Since your needs for love and affection have not been met, this guys attention is making you feel special. It feels good and you like it. But think about it. You say you are not in contact with him outside of these group situations, so he is not making any effort for you. He is simply taking advantage of these opportunities...at places that he would already be at. He is making moves on you at parties and sneaking kisses...and instead of feeling disgusted for being used as an ego boost, you feel special and think he has feelings for you. Why do you feel that he has genuine feelings for you? Because you got along in high school and he was sweet and protective? Because he feels you up under the table at parties? I don't understand. There may be genuine feelings of attraction, but this happens to most married people. You feel attracted, but keep your boundaries and don't act on that attraction. If he genuinely cared for you, he would not want to complicate your life like this. He would not put you in the position of betraying your friend or cheating on your husband. He is not being sweet and protective of you. He is being selfish, disrespectful and maybe even predatory. (I say this because he put the moves on you, knowing you were vulnerable and needing attention). I think you should focus on your own issues. If your needs are not being met in your marriage, take the steps to end your marriage and find someone available. Your husband not getting help for his addiction does not justify cheating. It justifies separation or divorce, but not cheating. You deserve more than an alcoholic husband. You deserve more than hidden kisses and butt squeezes. Focus on your life and the changes you are going to make in it, and leave your friend's husband alone.
Author Tangerine Lipgloss Posted October 10, 2011 Author Posted October 10, 2011 Thank you for your advice, Carhill. Yes I don't plan on socializing with both of them any time soon, just my friend and some other girls might get together to go to dinner next week. I looked into AlAnon and there are meetings near my house but I think I need a meeting closer to work instead. That is a great suggestion, thank you. IC I will think about. Thank you again for your compassionate post.
Author Tangerine Lipgloss Posted October 10, 2011 Author Posted October 10, 2011 Hi QuietStorm, Thank you for your post you have given me a lot to think about. I don't want to be with him, it is impossible. I know we like each other, but you're right if he really did he wouldn't put me in this position. We don't contact each other because it is easier that way, I don't want him to contact me and I don't want to call him either. I agree that he is not being sweet and protective now, he was in the past. I think when we are together the pull is strong and maybe that's all it is. We've all been friends a long time. He's not some kind of monster, he's probably going through a mid-life crisis or something. At any rate, none of it is right. It makes me uncomfortable to even have these feelings. They are confusing me and I'm not thinking straight. Thank you for your advice.
jnj express Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 What are your thoughts, as to D., this H---or do you not wanna go thru that process again--I know it is tuff, dealing with single life, and for you, what will it be, the 3rd time---that can't be enjoyable, but then again, it sounds like you are living in misery anyway, and you seem to be very close to cheating with someone else's H---so what do you want, and what do you think is best for you
nofool4u Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) Here’s the really big problem. It is an impossible situation as he is married to my friend. I met him when they started dating, so he was never available to me and I never gave it a thought. They have been married since we were young and have older kids. To further complicate things, my female friend is having a thing with another guy that lives far away. He does not know this. I don’t think they are all that happy but I know they will not divorce. Something about your story doesn't sound right. You are having an affair with a married man, she is cheating on him also, he doesn't know. And you aren't going to tell him? One would think that would push divorce along if that is what you would want. Normally I wouldn't even give advice like this, because you are in the Infidelity section where most don't care if you have to wait around for your married man. People are mostly here because of being cheated on. But in this case his wife is cheating too. So if she is cheating on him, and he on her, why wouldn't they divorce? Money? Kids? Edited October 11, 2011 by nofool4u
nofool4u Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 If you are married to an alcoholic, you likely feel very neglected in your marriage. This can make you very vulnerable to male attention. Since your needs for love and affection have not been met, this guys attention is making you feel special. It feels good and you like it. but this is her 2nd marriage about to fail. how many more times will it happen, and who will it be blamed on? when someone has been married and divorced quite a few times, isn't it time to start looking at their own behavior?
carhill Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 A mirror is a healthy tool, IMO, even after one failed marriage. An effective IC can raise that mirror, which is why I suggested it. In retrospect, listening to my now exW describe the failures in her two past M's, it was all about her exH's and she accepted no responsibility at all. I met her second exH and his father and watched she and them interact and found some marked disparities between her stories and those observations but discounted them at the time. Good lesson. Part of my mirror work, besides working on my own issues. That's what a good counselor can facilitate. I hope the OP prioritizes such work as part of next steps.
Author Tangerine Lipgloss Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 Hi JNJ and nofool4u thanks for responding. I have been staying away from this man. I do not want to be with him. I do not want to get in the middle of their issues either. I will not tell him anything. I will not tell her anything. Trust me this ended and will not go any further, feelings/no feelings whatever. They will deal with their own marriage and what will be will be. I needed to write this out because it was stuck in my head. I'm sure some people can relate to that. My husband left to stay with a friend for a while. We had a talk last week about the drinking etc. We need some space and I need some peace and quiet. Alcoholism is a progressive disease and he is worse now and needs to get his act together.
Author Tangerine Lipgloss Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 Carhill, I'm sure everyone at some point in their life would benefit from therapy. I"m sure I need it now. Yes I've been married twice and yes it is difficult but there are two sides to every story and I accept my responsiblity. I should not have married these men, we are wrong for each other.
Author Tangerine Lipgloss Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 I needed to write out this crazy situation in black and white, read it, get feedback and get over it. I can't even believe it is happening to me and I am not happy about the situation, the feelings, or any of it.
mzdolphin Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 End one thing before you start another. This goes for the friend too. Even if he leaves his wife and you leave your husband, your relationship will be worse than a soap opera and more like the NFL (Not For Long).
turnera Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Tangerine, your guy friend just wants some free sex. Trust me; I've been around men all my life and I know how they think. He figures you'll be easy to get and you won't tell anyone. You're his patsy.
turnera Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 What's wrong with YOUR marriage? Why aren't you doing anything about it?
Author Tangerine Lipgloss Posted October 15, 2011 Author Posted October 15, 2011 Mz Dolphin Believe me, I know that me and him will never ever be together.
Author Tangerine Lipgloss Posted October 15, 2011 Author Posted October 15, 2011 Turnera, Maybe, who knows. He's not getting any from me,that's for sure. I'm not that stupid. My marriage has many problems, and I don't want to go into all of them here. The biggest one is his drinking. He is staying with a friend for now.
Space Ritual Posted October 16, 2011 Posted October 16, 2011 My marriage has many problems, and I don't want to go into all of them here. The biggest one is his drinking. He is staying with a friend for now. I'd say you have bigger problems than his drinking...... not honoring your vows would probably be a little higher up that list....
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