is it going to start again?

[skywriter]

Skywriter im sorry but im confused with your point, are you saying shes saying these things to me because she is done with me. If thats the case why bother with me for then cant you just go about your day w/o saying things like that.

 

 

mr h,

 

I am a female and as a female, I have been guilty of this attitude in the past. Especially if I was pissed about something. Saying no, when I really want to say yes. I won't say yes, not til I'm done being pissed off.

 

Not very mature behavior, but truly, I've done it. I'm getting older and a bit tired of all that. There again though, I've done it to my XAP too.

 

If he ignored me, or acted as though what had went on with us meant nothing, well then, I'd feel that I should put on a tough front too.

 

mr h, I wish I knew wether she's done with you or not. I'd tell you. I just understand how a woman could act like that.

 

Yes, it would be easier to just about your day, that's why I question just how "over it", she really is. It reminds me of a poster that once said, "it's easier for me to get over the A if I'm pissed off."

Edited October 7, 2011 by skywriter

[Emme]

No she wasn't ready. She made it clear she wasn't going to.leave but i made it clear of my intentions. There was no mind reading needed I made it clear...we even talked about seeing each other after the school year started again...and then...here we are.

 

Yes being an adult about things would be the right way to go but apparently not feasible

 

I read it wrong my fault. A recall a friend a mine was ready to leave his wife give her the house and whatever else she wanted. His mother talked him out of it. I felt for him I really did. I just never thought I would feel these emotions. Everyone thinks their immune. Why... I don't know!

[RickFox]

I read it wrong my fault. A recall a friend a mine was ready to leave his wife give her the house and whatever else she wanted. His mother talked him out of it. I felt for him I really did. I just never thought I would feel these emotions. Everyone thinks their immune. Why... I don't know!

 

I think all of what Im feeling/going thru and Mr. H is feeling is that lack of finality. She is stringing him along, playing puppet and my xOW/MW has shown me with her actions that I was nothing/am nothing to her. Sure I put on a tough front but right or wrong and yes I was wrong for going outside of my marriage, but I opened up emotionally to her, something I don't do normally with many people and after we got caught, she no longer wanted to talk or when she did it was succinct and sparse. I made the mistake of picking my daughter up in our old spot yesterday where I was forced to see her. I didn't feel the rush of emotion and excitement when I looked at her but it hurt when she refused to look my way, knowing I was there, not one iota of acknowledgment. It's hard when someone tells you oh hey you're the greatest thing since sliced bread and then turns their back on you. I feel for Mr. H, sounds like he's in hell.

[Emme]

Ok here is the truth. Many of us fear closure because it is so final. It's usually one sided and honestly now that I think about it, it's for the best. I would have wanted to say my goodbyes at least. That opportunity was taken from most of us. It's more like a f*ck off rather then a goodbye. The thing is if we are going to be honest here, many of us here would not say goodbye... our clothes would be off and we all would be f*cking. That's the truth... I'm not going to lie. Many of us if we met the other AP would be back to square one and hitting ourselves in the head asking how the hell did this happen again. So for me right now the place that I'm in, I am ok with being left out in the cold. I wouldn't know how to let go. Emotionally it would rip me to shreds. So sometimes you just have to look at life for what it is and just take what comes. Don't read more into it, just let it go.

[confusedinkansas]

Ok here is the truth. Many of us fear closure because it is so final. It's usually one sided and honestly now that I think about it, it's for the best. I would have wanted to say my goodbyes at least. That opportunity was taken from most of us. It's more like a f*ck off rather then a goodbye. The thing is if we are going to be honest here, many of us here would not say goodbye... our clothes would be off and we all would be f*cking. That's the truth... I'm not going to lie. Many of us if we met the other AP would be back to square one and hitting ourselves in the head asking how the hell did this happen again. So for me right now the place that I'm in, I am ok with being left out in the cold. I wouldn't know how to let go. Emotionally it would rip me to shreds. So sometimes you just have to look at life for what it is and just take what comes. Don't read more into it, just let it go.

 

Excellent Post

[CFSLP2010]

Walking away is so.hard. I'm currently a MOW seeing a MOM. I know that all I have to do is call and he comes. Sad.to say, but I love the control I have over him. But he has a hold on me too, but I will never tell him. We spoke yesterday and he pretty much poured his heart out to me about how he feels, but I didnt return the sentiments even though I'm so in love with him. So gentlemen, just because they seem cold, hard and callous, it's an act. They feel just like you do they're hurting and I guarantee you they miss you. Sorry bout the errors. I'm typing from my droid...

Edited October 7, 2011 by CFSLP2010

[mr h]

Skywriter I never did anything wrong to her ever except maybe I was too nice to her. So she had no reason to be mad at me except if she was mad at the whole situation but then she is part to blame also. Spl2010 why is it that you like the power so much I'm not trying to be mean just want to understand. On some level I hope you are right about her feelings but she does a awesome job in hiding her emotions toward me. Is it possible that 2 adults can be with each other for a couple of months or even years and then one of the persons feelings just end? I don't know.

[Circular]

I think all of what Im feeling/going thru and Mr. H is feeling is that lack of finality. She is stringing him along, playing puppet and my xOW/MW has shown me with her actions that I was nothing/am nothing to her. Sure I put on a tough front but right or wrong and yes I was wrong for going outside of my marriage, but I opened up emotionally to her, something I don't do normally with many people and after we got caught, she no longer wanted to talk or when she did it was succinct and sparse. I made the mistake of picking my daughter up in our old spot yesterday where I was forced to see her. I didn't feel the rush of emotion and excitement when I looked at her but it hurt when she refused to look my way, knowing I was there, not one iota of acknowledgment. It's hard when someone tells you oh hey you're the greatest thing since sliced bread and then turns their back on you. I feel for Mr. H, sounds like he's in hell.

 

I've been thinking about this thread most of the day trying to figure out how to explain to you the importance of seeing the truth in this situation. It's important that you understand the truth because until you do you'll be stuck trying to make sense of how someone could turn their back on you the way they are, it will eternally be a source of pain, a wound, a scar - something that can be exposed. This is just my theory and I'm trying to save you a lot of time, because I've BTDT.

 

Why? How you are interpreting being treated is and is going to stick in your head and as strange as it sounds it's going to be like a weak link in a chain. You are a man, this is a puzzle, men have a tendency to get stuck on puzzles. It will always be a sore point, it's caused you a lot of emotional duress and pain, I know how much it hurts. Sure, you'll be strong, you'll carry your head high, you'll 'do the right thing' and over time you'll redeem yourself, regain your integrity, etc... but it will always nag at you, something that greatly bruised your ego and self-esteem and serves as a great paradox in your life.

 

Here's the scenario - What if, after a few years... she contacts you? What if... she tells you how much she really loved you, was hurt, tried to be strong, has thought about you every day, etc... Suddenly you're going to have instant resolution to that nagging thing that's been in the back of your mind for years, it's going to feel like a huge weight lifted off your shoulders 'vindication at last!' -- Oh, and btw while feeling elated she's going to say 'can I see you to just talk' and you're going to be susceptible and you're most likely going to fall prey to it. It's that easy, really, don't believe me? Just read all the threads in this section and the infidelity section, after awhile you see a pattern. It happens all to often.

 

By accepting the truth of the situation that she's hurt, that she's grieving the loss of your relationship and that's why she's treating you this way you're dealing with the real terms of the situation and you're not becoming a victim to the situation. For me it gave me greater clarity, respect, etc... for xmw and the situation we created, it also gave me a lot more strength to do the right thing. Will I fall prey? I don't know, but at least I know what cards are in each persons hands.

[mr h]

Circular I'm speaking for myself and maybe Rick also. I don't doubt that the women involved in the A hurt after everything has stopped. But if both parties were able to talk and be truthful after the A has ended I don't think there would be years of heart ache on both sides. While I maybe naive about the whole situation, the what if would be gone. You are 100 percent correct about our egos getting hurt. The whole thing stinks for all involved.

[RickFox]

I've been thinking about this thread most of the day trying to figure out how to explain to you the importance of seeing the truth in this situation. It's important that you understand the truth because until you do you'll be stuck trying to make sense of how someone could turn their back on you the way they are, it will eternally be a source of pain, a wound, a scar - something that can be exposed. This is just my theory and I'm trying to save you a lot of time, because I've BTDT.

 

Why? How you are interpreting being treated is and is going to stick in your head and as strange as it sounds it's going to be like a weak link in a chain. You are a man, this is a puzzle, men have a tendency to get stuck on puzzles. It will always be a sore point, it's caused you a lot of emotional duress and pain, I know how much it hurts. Sure, you'll be strong, you'll carry your head high, you'll 'do the right thing' and over time you'll redeem yourself, regain your integrity, etc... but it will always nag at you, something that greatly bruised your ego and self-esteem and serves as a great paradox in your life.

 

Here's the scenario - What if, after a few years... she contacts you? What if... she tells you how much she really loved you, was hurt, tried to be strong, has thought about you every day, etc... Suddenly you're going to have instant resolution to that nagging thing that's been in the back of your mind for years, it's going to feel like a huge weight lifted off your shoulders 'vindication at last!' -- Oh, and btw while feeling elated she's going to say 'can I see you to just talk' and you're going to be susceptible and you're most likely going to fall prey to it. It's that easy, really, don't believe me? Just read all the threads in this section and the infidelity section, after awhile you see a pattern. It happens all to often.

 

By accepting the truth of the situation that she's hurt, that she's grieving the loss of your relationship and that's why she's treating you this way you're dealing with the real terms of the situation and you're not becoming a victim to the situation. For me it gave me greater clarity, respect, etc... for xmw and the situation we created, it also gave me a lot more strength to do the right thing. Will I fall prey? I don't know, but at least I know what cards are in each persons hands.

 

If she contacts me after a few years, I'll be livid, pissed beyond belief, angry that after all this time she decides to come back into my life to drop a bomb on me that no longer matters. I"d be more inclined to agree with you if she dropped the bomb right now but if it happens like you describe I'll just see it as her trying to see how much control she still has.

 

Here's why I see this is purely a game for her, and I might add, Mr. H's woman is playing a game as well:

 

We meet, strike it up, progresses to the A; She tells me she's falling for me, gets sad when I don't say anything back immediately and plays that card when I don't say it fast enough for her taste; tells me she loves me but will not leave her husband as she is not in love with him but still loves him; tells me the great line: I might be making the biggest mistake of my life by not choosing you buuuutt.....; We get caught, Summer is here, kids are out, I get the oh I have to see you one more time; No I can't see you anymore I need to make my marriage work; When I see you at school again, I imagine the feelings coming back; No contact, I break it, she tells me she misses me then bites my head off telling me to take my pissy self elsewhere after I disagreed with her; No contact again, I break it two weeks later, she breaks it off in me once again. More no contact but broken by her after she finds out I spoke to a mutual acquaintance and she wants to know what I told her so it doesn't get back to her H; Asks questions and then gets to the real reason, sooo did you ever delete those texts I sent to your wife? Self preservation rears its head, never asked how I was doing in my relationship; A few contacts by her at the end of summer, I respond and Im called a stalker. No contact now for two months. I see her, she turns her head the other way. I tried to wave to her this morning she turned her head the other way. She's sped like a demon to get away from me, she's run red lights, her husband shows up at school way more than usual, oh and she told me that they reconnected, maybe.. maybe not...not inclined to believe it. She tried to exert control over me once more before much of this sent a text saying "I don't know why Im telling you this, but Im going to the store in 15 minutes." Of course you know why you're telling me...it's a text. Then trying to get me to get the tattoo she wanted me to get, when I told her no she got pissy, told her no more reason to get it, we aren't together ...I see that as a form of her getting control and having it forever if I got inked with a design she wanted. Nevermind the things she said about us still hanging out, eating lunch together every now and then, talking while at school......all that...completely forgotten.

 

All that culminates into what I feel now. You don't tell someone you have all these feelings, you don't actively pursue them only to completely ignore them with all that you are. That is not pain, that is cruelty, that is not how someone acts when you cared for them. If I included everything in this it would take forever to type but I can't see it like that. I can't see someone acting like that without saying something at some point if they truly cared and what Mr. H's woman is doing is nothing but cruel and sick IMHO.

 

IMO, she only cared about herself, I was a toy so to speak and once the excitement of the affair was over for her, she had no reason to stick around, it's not taboo anymore not fun. The tattoo, "Love the Life you Live, Live the Life You Love" she says the tattoo was for me...yeah right....once you see what it means it speaks volumes. Just like the person above said she likes to have control over her MM, mine had control over me completely and she knew it.

 

Truthfully, yeah, I've been hoping she'd contact me, thought she would after school started, aint gonna happen I've come to terms with it for the most part but yeah I want her to, I gotta lotta things to say. Her key phrases were: "I'm an a$$ I know" and "I'm obnoxious, I know!"

Edited October 8, 2011 by RickFox

[Gentlegirl]

Excuse me for saying this, but she sounds like the female equivalent of a douche bag... whatever that might be.

 

Pure sleaze.

 

GG

[Emme]

If she contacts me after a few years, I'll be livid, pissed beyond belief, angry that after all this time she decides to come back into my life to drop a bomb on me that no longer matters. I"d be more inclined to agree with you if she dropped the bomb right now but if it happens like you describe I'll just see it as her trying to see how much control she still has.

 

 

STUBBORN STUBBORN STUBBORN You are doing the same thing she did. You are afraid to just go with the flow. Even months after if you still had feeling for her you would play the game of F-you Game! You didn't want me then so I don't want you now.

 

 

The tattoo, "Love the Life you Live, Live the Life You Love" she says the tattoo was for me...yeah right....once you see what it means it speaks volumes.

 

Go knock her door right now. If you want her go and fight for her. It's that simple. Take your own advice. So.... When are you going?

[Circular]

STUBBORN STUBBORN STUBBORN You are doing the same thing she did. You are afraid to just go with the flow. Even months after if you still had feeling for her you would play the game of F-you Game! You didn't want me then so I don't want you now.

 

 

 

 

Go knock her door right now. If you want her go and fight for her. It's that simple. Take your own advice. So.... When are you going?

 

Me thinks that Emme knows exactly what I'm talking about....

[RickFox]

STUBBORN STUBBORN STUBBORN You are doing the same thing she did. You are afraid to just go with the flow. Even months after if you still had feeling for her you would play the game of F-you Game! You didn't want me then so I don't want you now.

 

 

 

 

Go knock her door right now. If you want her go and fight for her. It's that simple. Take your own advice. So.... When are you going?

 

Did that, begged her, told her exactly how I felt, what I wanted, it got me nowhere. I was told that she wasn't anything special and I'd realize it and move on.

 

Why would I give her the satisfaction three years from now if she came back, that's three years too late. I know the feelings will always be there, for me, they may get buried but they'll be there. Nothing will convince me based on her words and actions that she feels anything, things I just can't convey on an internet board.

 

I've been known to be wrong, but I dont believe I am this time.

[mr h]

Emme I'm sorry to be naive here but what do you mean to just go with the flow. And I believe I am still playing the game with my x A partner, I will still answer her texts that come every 2-3 weeks in the hope that maybe just maybe I will find out what's on her mind, like she would tell me. Don't know why I play the game maybe deep down I do but man am I getting my ass kicked in this game. I guess deep down we all want to know if we were ever special to our A partners except maybe for a one night stand which I don't think any of is had here. I know I want to know if she thinks about me as much as I think about her. Sad but true...

[Circular]

I've been a bit cryptic here in my responses, some of it has been intentional to draw out a little more detail about where everyone's head is. Even though the how/why of both Mr. H and Rick's situations ended are different I don't think what's in either of your hearts is different. You both had HUGE emotional investments in the OW and the current state is incongruent with what your expectations are for what transpired, what you experienced and at one point felt true and very real. In my experience, even without a d-day the feeling of being snubbed after-the-fact even though I knew what I was doing was right was very painful.

 

My point though was that what you're experiencing from the OWs isn't as bizarre and alien as it appears. As stated by a few women on the board already this is not abnormal behavior at all, but quite normal when these situations come to a non-resolution point. It's very normal for people to pull back, to put on a cold face, to revert to self-protectionism. I think it's more common in women because contact, conversation, etc... something to men that seems benign and simple can be very emotionally charged, remember their connection with you is much more emotional than physical, something I've grown to understand and respect. To even HAVE the conversations you're speaking of requires vulnerability, putting down the guard, connecting to that emotional source - guys don't quite understand this and neither did I for a long long time - the problem for your OW's is that leads to pulling them back into the situations they are struggling to stay out of for right now - in their minds it could lead to a lot more hurt. Sure at times it might seem childish, might seem cold, might seem very hurtful but it's how they've chosen to deal and the problem is those emotions need a vent, so they come out in not-so-friendly ways.

 

That said, Emme made a very good point in something she said, which is something I believe is true even for myself. We all talk about CLOSURE, seeking it, trying to find it, 'if I only had that one conversation I could move on', 'if only she would read and respond to my letter' thing is life doesn't work that way. And Emme's point is that CLOSURE == FINALITY and as much as we say we want closure there's a little piece inside of us that really doesn't want it if we can avoid it.

 

I think at times a lot of what we experience is just that, the avoidance of closure. We talk about it, we say we want it but the problem is that closure requires both people wanting it and both willing to discuss it and both willing to say GOODBYE FOREVER. It's the 'goodbye forever' part that people fear the most, a closed door, something that doesn't seem returnable to ever again.

 

The truth is in both your situations the xOW is avoiding closure, almost refusing it and the harder you push for it the harder they will push back to not give it to you. You have to find the closure within yourself, the lengthy explanations as to why xOW is treating you as such and all are the answers you need to find that closure within yourself, trying to find it from them is only begging to relapse the whole situation bringing anything but closure.

[RickFox]

So if the xOW is avoiding closure, what does that say about them?

[Emme]

Fear is what put a lot of us in this big old mess in the first place. It’s not just horniness its fear. Something in your marriage scared you. You didn’t or don’t know what it is but you felt the need to RUN away from that fear rather than face it.

 

The both of you have wives that you are still with. Why? You love them. So if you love them why are you still curious about what could have been with someone who is “meaningless” to you? It’s not just curiosity there is a part of you that now loves or cares for someone else other than your wife. It might not be the same level of love but still yet you love/care for them.

 

I don’t know who told us all that we can only love one person. You can love more than one person but within marriage you can’t stray. You have to forsake all others. If we all lived by our EMOTIONS the whole world would be screwed. We are taught to do what’s right versus what we feel. No one knows how long those emotions will last. The only sure thing you know that is true is the relationship with your wife.

 

Everyone is afraid. No one is willing to take that leap and fall flat on their face, risk it all. Both of you are here on this board because you’ve lots someone you cared for. None of you are here to find out what have you lost from your marriage to make me search outside of it. That is where your focus should be and it’s not. It’s not your primary concern. You have become so complacent in your marriage you forgot to do the work it takes to keep the love alive. Many here I look and I can tell the spark is just gone. Instead of living like lovers and friends you are living as brothers and sisters. Face the fear of knowing why you strayed.

 

Face the fear of why you’re still in a marriage with someone you “seem” to no longer love. Rick the reason why she said she isn’t anything special is because she knows her true self and the person she is will come to light. Will you like that person when it comes into the light, maybe not! So she’ll stab herself in the foot before an attempt is made on either side of this relationship.

 

Mr. H I had and affair for over a decade with my friend. You’ve known your friend for 20 years. I can’t imagine how many times she’s possibly felt something for you and didn’t act on it. Now that she has she’s made a mess of things because she knows the difference from fantasy and reality. No one wants to let go but there is a time when you have to weigh the odds as to what’s in the best interest of everyone involved. So it’s just best to deal with the life you choose than destroy others.

[Emme]

So if the xOW is avoiding closure, what does that say about them?

 

It says that she loves you so much she doesn't want to feel as though you have died by seeking closure. She would just rather think of you being out there in the world and if your paths cross again it was meant to be.

[mr h]

Emme you are right and wrong. You are wrong with me as I do love my wife dearly, just that things became routine for us not good but I'm working on that. And with me my x A partner wasn't meaningless to me and as sad as it sounds still isn't. You are right in the fact that I think we are capable of loving more then 1 person as wrong as it maybe I guess it happens. And for a selfish reason I hope that your last post is true.

[Circular]

Emme you are right and wrong. You are wrong with me as I do love my wife dearly, just that things became routine for us not good but I'm working on that. And with me my x A partner wasn't meaningless to me and as sad as it sounds still isn't. You are right in the fact that I think we are capable of loving more then 1 person as wrong as it maybe I guess it happens. And for a selfish reason I hope that your last post is true.

 

 

From my own experience I think it's very true that you can love more than 1 person at a time. The problem is of course that you're not loving any single person 100% as there is always a piece of you that's with the other person.

 

And as Emme said, when someone avoids closure it's because they want to keep the option open in case for some reason paths cross again or situations change that make it more convenient to re-open the relationship.

 

I think in your case Mr. H she might be very frustrated by the situation, you've known each other for a long time, she potentially wanted more or was looking for something from you specifically (not everyone communicates clearly their wants/needs) but now feels she needs to act this way to keep you at distance so she doesn't once again fall back into the cycle leaving her feeling heartbroken all over again. If you think about it, it doesn't matter how much the two people love each other, if the situation doesn't allow for them to come together and fulfill their needs completely then people are going to get very frustrated, especially if they feel that needs could be fulfilled fully by the AP. That frustration is going to turn into anger, it's going to show itself in some way, shape, or form and though we'd all love to have the nice, friendly, loving conversation but then the AP fears that conversation will lead to 'the end' so they avoid it.

 

In Rick's case it's hard to say what xMW might do, but there are very predictable patterns and how she is acting seems very normal given the circumstances. Her H probably has no clue about the A and she wants to avoid that and probably has a ton of conflicting feelings, especially given that their are kids involved. It seems very much like a 'waiting for the dust to settle' situation.

 

You should both read the Yo-Yo thread that's going on as well, especially the most recent posts that East7 contributed. I found that over time understanding the difference in male/female psychology and even the meaning of an A to both parties was very eye-opening and enlightening.

[mr h]

Circular I maybe over thinking things here but this is the 1st time I'm involved in an A. My x A partner has not made anyform of contact now in 3 weeks. I'm not sure if that's along time if it isn't or is that closer for her? Nothing has happened since the spring between us once again I don't know if that's a long or a short time as far as A go. So then it's a real possibilty that she did have feelings for me that's why she is acting this way? One time a few months ago we saw each other on passing and spoke for a minute or so just hi how are you stuff, then she stopped and said I have to go before I do something I might regret. Never really thought about it much but I guess there were some signs there that I missed.

[Circular]

Circular I maybe over thinking things here but this is the 1st time I'm involved in an A. My x A partner has not made anyform of contact now in 3 weeks. I'm not sure if that's along time if it isn't or is that closer for her? Nothing has happened since the spring between us once again I don't know if that's a long or a short time as far as A go. So then it's a real possibilty that she did have feelings for me that's why she is acting this way? One time a few months ago we saw each other on passing and spoke for a minute or so just hi how are you stuff, then she stopped and said I have to go before I do something I might regret. Never really thought about it much but I guess there were some signs there that I missed.

 

It's typical for us guys to 'miss the signs' LOL... I know I sure did, it's no wonder women cast us as simple creatures that need things spelled out completely for us to understand what they need/want.

 

Three weeks isn't a long time at all actually. It's not uncommon for people to go months or even years without talking while still harboring unresolved/unclosed feelings. Three weeks is a very short period of time, it sounds like she might be putting NC in place to put distance between her feelings and you.

 

Her rudeness to your W might be more out of the fact that your W is standing in the way of what she wants and she is feeling hurt by the fact that she can't have what she wants and she's blaming your W for that.

[Emme]

Emme you are right and wrong. You are wrong with me as I do love my wife dearly, just that things became routine for us not good but I'm working on that. And with me my x A partner wasn't meaningless to me and as sad as it sounds still isn't. You are right in the fact that I think we are capable of loving more then 1 person as wrong as it maybe I guess it happens. And for a selfish reason I hope that your last post is true.

 

 

You can use the word love, but you have fallen out of love in a sense that's why I quoted "seem". You care for your wife. I know your lover wasn't meaningless that why I put it in quotes. That's what you tell yourself though to make it through the day. You have to trick your brain into putting your wife first so you won't stray again. We are all in trouble with the love. They didn’t make songs like Me and Mrs. Jones for nothing. No one really has all the answers to make this pain go away. We just have to deal with it each day until it decides to leave us.

[RickFox]

I see lots of similarities but at the same time I can't see how my xMW really cares anymore.

 

She told someone she hates my wife. told me from the start she wasn't going to leave him, it was always "if" we ended up together. Magically reconnected with him after he got her a ring she was looking at and suddenly began to communicate with her. Now Im the bad guy.

 

Honestly, yeah, I want(ed) her to try to reconnect, Im moving on, I know she won't and I'll deal with it any way I have to.

 

Good thread by the way.