Mangomonkey Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 So i thought ill make a thread on this. What do folks things of pre nups. I believe i made a thread some time ago about this. I recently just read up on something called a post nup. Meaning after the person got married. How would you feel if your spouse asked you to sign a post nup. How would you feel about a pre nup. In all honesty. If a woman is okay with it. Ill be cool with getting married some day. Seriously.
Cypress25 Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 I thought a pre-nup was just part of the engagement/marriage process. I assumed everyone did it. And I'm a woman.
Author Mangomonkey Posted October 3, 2011 Author Posted October 3, 2011 To my knowledge its not. Most women i know find it offensive to even ask. Like we dont love them or trust them enough. Or if we are together forever then whats the point of a pre nup. Plus i hear that there are lawyers who can get around pre nups so im not so sure. Post nup is something else entirely just recently heard of. I think that if someone is willing to sign a post nup. Especially if their the one who makes less or no income in a marriage. It speaks volumes for that person. In my eyes. Kinda of a keeper. Only because i know that the only thing that would honestly be keeping us together then is love. And only love.
AHardDaysNight Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Paul McCartney is one that is definitely regretting it.
musemaj11 Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 The only women who find a prenup offensive are women who have less money than the men. Ironically women with good financial condition are just as interested in prenup as men.
Citizen Erased Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Paul McCartney is one that is definitely regretting it. Doubtful. He's getting married again without a prenup. The chick is rich anyway but still. Dumbass.
Sooner or Later Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 No problem with a pre-nup to protect both of our assets...not just his.
daphne Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 When a woman doesn't have anything, she finds it offensive. When she has something to lose, she realizes the significance of protecting her hard earned assets. Also, I think few women realize that a prenup rarely is about her getting nothing if things go south. I think secretly many women feel entitled to half, no matter how long they were together, no matter how much they make (even when they make 6 figures) and regardless if they have children. I find that offensive.
Eeyore79 Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 I believe that pre-nup agreements are not legally binding in some countries anyway. The UK has a reputation for being a good place to get divorced if you want to bleed your spouse dry, as it doesn't recognize pre-nups, even if they were originally signed in another country. I remember reading a news article last year about a French guy divorcing a German heiress, and he applied for divorce in the UK as they wouldn't recognize the pre-nup. It's kinda like how certain US states have a reputation for divorce as their laws favor one party or the other. In CO your ex-wife is likely to be awarded almost half of your salary in alimony, and in NY you can't get a no-fault divorce so there are legal wrangles over whose fault it was. There are nine states which regard all property as community property, so if you're the wealthier partner you should definitely avoid those states. NC is a good state to get divorced in as they don't award alimony to a spouse who has committed adultery! The bottom line is, you're probably going to end up losing out if you get divorced - if nothing else, divorce is an expensive business. You can't rely on a pre-nup as it can be overturned or not accepted as legally binding.
Pierre Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 So i thought ill make a thread on this. What do folks things of pre nups. I believe i made a thread some time ago about this. I recently just read up on something called a post nup. Meaning after the person got married. How would you feel if your spouse asked you to sign a post nup. How would you feel about a pre nup. In all honesty. If a woman is okay with it. Ill be cool with getting married some day. Seriously. IF a man or a woman need a pre-nup it simply means they are looking ahead to a time when they will end the relationship. For those that are looking ahead at the possibility of ending the relationship it is way better to simply live together than to have a pre-nup. There is a bit of an unsavory contradiction in pre-nups for people that are getting married. Marriage implies complete total commitment and till death separation and therefore a pre-nup is contradictory to a a couple that is contemplating marriage. A pre-nup implies "I am not siue this is going to work" and it is therefore very similar to the idea of living together with no marriage plans.
CarrieT Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 I would be really curious as to the ages of all of you who have posted before me with the opinions that have been stated. I am in my late 40s, a woman, and have not been married for over 20 years because I never wanted to financially tie myself to another person (my divorce cost me over $250k). As such, my own finances are not great; I make good money but have fairly large student loans that I will be paying off for the rest of my life. I do not and never will expect a potential husband to pay those debts for me. I also date more affluent, well-off men who may or may not have children. I am pragmatic that these men will want to leave their children their assets before a potential new wife. I have no problem with that and expect it to be the case. In that regard, when/if I get married, I have no problem signing a prenup to protect his assets and guarantee his children their inheritance. Of course there is a possibility that I will meet and fall in love with someone who makes less than me and in that case - since I have no children - I can't image what a pre-nup would be for since my assets aren't earmarked for any progeny. My husband can have 'em, if he wants...
Art_Critic Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 A prenup is nothing more than piece of mind and just a piece of paper.. Prenups have expirations, don't cover child support and many do not hold up in courts because they are just unfair. If a pre-nup is to hold up in most courts in the US both parties must have their own attorneys.. that in itself is the very start of laying the foundation for a marriage with an end date in sight... IMO. I also think you should know your divorce laws in your state.. because in my state you don't need a prenup to protect your premarital and inheritance assets.. they are protected from day one. You do have to do some special things when it comes to business's and property though.. you can't co-mingle assets from your premarital-marital or they become marital. A prenup does not get you out of your spouse getting what is rightfully theirs in the marriage. I also wonder how many people on this board (besides Woggle as he had his wife sign one) would actually go thru with putting their spouse thru a prenup process or are they just spouting off at the mouth.
Pierre Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 I know of one woman that called off a wedding when the groom presented a pre-nup one week before the weeding. Pre-nups are unsavory!!!!!!!!!!
Pierre Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Madonna had a pre-nup that stipulated the use of condoms in case of cheating. Now that is romantic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
carhill Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Here's some questions my lawyer asked me: 'Did your wife ever make a mortgage payment on your house? Pay your property taxes? Does she have proof of funding improvements?' 'Did your wife ever pay any of your business bills and/or make capital injections into your business?' 'Did you ever take proceeds from separate property (debt or equity) and co-mingle them with marital property?' Many such questions. 'You're lucky your wife is being amicable' I came to learn the slippery slope, at least forensically in a long marriage with a marked disparity of assets/debts at outset, is the co-mingling dynamic. It can be quantified and unwound and negotiated but that requires forensics and forensics, like forensic accounting, can be expensive, presuming a non-amicable contested divorce. Then there's lawyer's fees. A legal partnership agreement can clarify the issues up-front. Sure, nothing is iron-clad, but a properly executed agreement which is updated regularly can protect both parties. There are plenty of single women my age with substantial estates and inheritances to protect. I'm sure that we'll be seeing more partnership agreements or similar legal documents in our future. I'm fine with that. I lost enough of my premarital net worth in divorce to be fine with the process if getting married again. I'll retire 8-10 years later, but learned a lot. I'd recommend such an agreement to a young person if they have substantial assets, like for example a business or professional practice or real estate holdings, that they've established while single. The average working guy with a car payment and a starter home and a small savings account, like I was in my 20's? Not really. The guys who are high income earners might disagree, but IME such agreements are even more critical for guys like myself who don't earn a big income but who have slowly and steadily built up an estate over decades through smart investment and frugality. We don't have the means to quickly recover and the timeline for recovery becomes more compressed as we age. Whether such losses come from direct taking, or from unforeseen substantial expenses like lawyer's fees and/or forensics costs, it still has a large impact not only on lifestyle, but also quality of life, meaning emotionally. At this point, I don't really see any positives to having a woman in my life but, if that perspective changes, and one is ever in my space again, it will be with something legal which I can prosecute in court to protect what I have left. Lesson learned.
TheSingleGuy Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Fact: 70 to 90% of all break-ups and divorces are the desire of the woman. Any guy who gets married without a pre-nup is a complete f***-tard. Any guy who lets her move in without a marriage and pre-nup is also a complete F***-tard. Common law marriage can be declared after only a few months of living together. So the "commitment-phobes" think living together without a marriage is a smarter move. Wrong! It only pisses her off and causes problems with her and her family and her friends. It makes her question constantly "how much you care". She will still rationalize that you didn't put a ring on her finger when she goes out with her friends for a girl's night out when the alpha male asks for her number. Be a man and marry the girl if you want her to live you, but get a pre-nup first. Without that, she can still take you for half via common-law marriage. If you want to keep her, put a ring on her finger and marry her, but ONLY with a pre-nup. If she won't sign the pre-nup, she doesn't love you. Period. And remember, "fair" doesn't exist in a woman's mind. Ever. They are way more selfish than men. So why marry one????
Jynxx Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 A prenup is nothing more than piece of mind and just a piece of paper.. They shouldn't worry about it. Sure , a man who asks for a pre-nup is relatively smarter than the men who moves in with a woman or marries without a pre-nup, but any attorney with half a brain can destroy the prenup without that much effort. Wow, srsly? God bless Europe (or at least most of it, apparently without the UK), where a contract is still valid. Prenups have expirations, don't cover child support and many do not hold up in courts because they are just unfair. How are they unfair when they're the result of negotiations between equals? I also wonder how many people on this board (besides Woggle as he had his wife sign one) would actually go thru with putting their spouse thru a prenup process or are they just spouting off at the mouth. While I'm not planning on getting married any time soon, I'm currently mid 20s and already spent literally half my 20s working 80 hour weeks trying to build up my net worth (no details). I'm never ever ever gonna risk losing half of that blood sweat tears and literally best years of my life to be taken away from me by someone who's only accomplishment was taking part in a failed marriage.
Author Mangomonkey Posted October 3, 2011 Author Posted October 3, 2011 I guess i should have made a different title. Im more curious about post nups whether than pre nups. I recently heard a story about a man raising someone else's kids. The man was married when he found out and one of the agreements between the man and his wife was to sign a post nup. She agreed. Hope this gives a bit more clarity on what im looking for folks to discuss. So i guess Ill ask again. What are your thoughts on post nups. If they even exist.
Imageiko Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 IF a man or a woman need a pre-nup it simply means they are looking ahead to a time when they will end the relationship. I feel like this extreme is misguided. Do people who buy health insurance plan on getting sick? I feel like a pre nup is a reasonable insurance policy in case something goes wrong.
Pierre Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 I feel like this extreme is misguided. Do people who buy health insurance plan on getting sick? I feel like a pre nup is a reasonable insurance policy in case something goes wrong. Actually some people marry with the idea that it is forever. Regarding health insurance. It is impossible to not get sick. At some point EVERYBODY GETS sick, so insurance is needed.
Woggle Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Getting married without a prenup is simply stupid. Of course you don't want it to end but life is not predictable.
carhill Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 What are your thoughts on post nups? If they even exist. They do exist and I know two LS'ers (ladies) who participated in them. They have their place if the marriage began without a pre-nup and one or both parties feel circumstances warrant a legal contract. The intent of the parties in the post-nup can be argued by counsel should the matter become a contested D. It's a formal document which indicates their intent and what and how they agree on in matters of marriage and finance. As an example, if we married without a pre-nup and my wife's financial circumstances had changed substantially and she received a large injection of separate property and wished to formalize that event and spell out my/her role and rights, we could negotiate and agree to specific terms, for example terms/compensation for purposeful or inadvertent co-mingling as one potential. With divorces increasing becoming a rubber stamp event and commonplace, I tend to see them more like business partnerships, especially with women becoming strong independent earners and amassing their own estates. I can't think of one business colleague who enters a partnership on a handshake anymore. There's too much at stake in a very competitive world. Experience has taught me that many similar factors and impetuses exist in the marital world. The only constant, excluding death, is change.
Eve Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 So i thought ill make a thread on this. What do folks things of pre nups. I believe i made a thread some time ago about this. I recently just read up on something called a post nup. Meaning after the person got married. How would you feel if your spouse asked you to sign a post nup. How would you feel about a pre nup. In all honesty. If a woman is okay with it. Ill be cool with getting married some day. Seriously. I don't know anyone who has anything as such. Thinking outside of myself, if there was a lot of wealth to distribute and children to consider etc than I would see it more as a Living Will.. or something, rather than a prenup/postnup. I don't think it would catch on as part of UK culture. Most would be offended if asked to sign such a thing. Generally speaking, it is seen as something the very rich or typically Americans do because as they swop relationships so much. No, if my marriage fails, we split everything half way but I don't mind this as really we made all our money together. Anyhow most people marry people of similar standing so I don't see the point. Take care, Eve x
sunshinegirl Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 We've never discussed pre- or post-nups. For what it's worth, we're economically on fairly equal footing. More importantly, though, I am confident that if things ever went horribly awry between H and I, I chose someone whose character is such that he wouldn't want to bleed me dry in a divorce; and I have no interest in bleeding him dry. We've seen how the other handles conflict and there are no red flags there. Neither of us has tendencies toward vengefulness or holding grudges. (I also have no interest in divorcing him, but for those who see divorce as some kind of inevitable end to marriage, it seems the best thing to do is marry someone who wouldn't be an ass during a divorce proceeding!)
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