Author USMCHokie Posted October 3, 2011 Author Posted October 3, 2011 Verify strong interest and relationship capability before even asking her out. If you're friends, this should be easy. So this is something I should just know...? I've never tried dating someone who started out as friends first, so this new territory for me...it wasn't until I got to know her as a friend that I became interested in more...so I don't really know what qualifies as strong interest...
UpDownAllAround Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Eh, I don't think "asking" over the internet qualifies as courage. But... in regards to "pursuing someone in person"... there's several variables involved. Perhaps you literally reek of some kind of odor that is appalling women left and right --- I knew a man who lived thus. The poor guy was oblivious as to wtf was wrong with him... even when his friends pointed it out, even when little ones scattered away screaming "ewww" when they drew near him. "Confidence" in and of itself isn't always enough --- he was a very "confident" fellow, but very in the dark... Something major is wrong with you or you are drawn to the types of women that you (sub)consciously know are not available / will reject you / are just never going to be into what you represent / are gay / fill in endless personal and impersonal possibilities here. It's a shame that you weren't able to benefit from your bravery nonetheless. It worked out for me =/ As for the OP, from what one can gauge over the internet... it seems like he has everything going for him --- that his biggest hurdle is his self-perception. I think he needs to find the motivation to prevail over his fear of rejection --- it closes a lot of opportunities in life, potentially even beyond interpersonal relations. If he overcomes it briefly and this lady he works with is interested in him, then perhaps he won't have to deal with the bigger part of that demon... but if she turns his offer down, I think he'd be wise to attempt to eradicate it rather than cower to it. I'm sure there's gotta be books on strategies of how to deal with overcoming potential rejection etc... unfortunately I haven't read any, can't recommend anything =/ Actually, it wasn't so much as "asking" over the internet being my ONLY MO. Also, meaning...I went way over above and beyond that. I answered all questions in detail...I wrote comprehensive replies with perfect spelling and grammar. I also asked girls out in person as part of my "mission," not putting all my eggs in one basket so to speak, since I was in college at the time. De nada. You would think that through all that I'd eventually be rewarded. Nope...definitely not an odor. I'd know that by now. I shower every day as well as performing all the other essentials of grooming myself.
UpDownAllAround Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 BTW, OP - stay away from office romances. Seriously. They do you no favors.
Author USMCHokie Posted October 3, 2011 Author Posted October 3, 2011 What if she's attracted to you but thinks you're not into her because you haven't let her know? Wouldn't that suck? Yes, very much. But what Star is saying is true too. What if she isn't? That could be awkward...
eatNrM Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) This is the biggest BS ever. I overcame my resistance. I followed the advice on this board, and kept asking...and asking...and asking...since supposedly after 10 asks you're supposed to get a yes. And asking. Probably got up to over 200 no's off of eHarmony alone. And finally...met the girl of my dreams ironically NOT on a bulls*** dating site. Did she go out with me? NO! Was I rewarded for being courageous and going through so many rejections? NO! Did I even get a date out of all this bs activity? NO!! Did I get to kiss? NO!! Did I even get to experience any intimate activity? NO!! I don't even want to ask anyone out anymore after the pain and heartache I've been through after that. Dating is full of it. Trying to forget my 20s has been a nightmare but I'm almost there. Thankfully. I want to forget girls even exist. Maybe one day I can be happy again. As much of a sweetheart as Onyx is, that advice is not going far enough. I think your best bet, upanddown, is to consult resources that better you as a person. As a man, I feel that our greatest hurdles in life will always be the ones that will occur in our mind. Men do not have the luxury of looks. Looks are a woman's primary lure to attract a male, which is why whether she takes the initiative or not (such as onyx), their success rate is very high. It's the mating edge that's been bestowed upon them by biology. So it becomes a battle of will you go the distance to conquer your inner fears? (no simple task) I would say trying online is awesome, but you have to remember something. You are simply a page in an extremely huge catalog that women will go through, and as such will be relying on your physical looks and profile structure. You essentially deprive yourself of the one thing men have been given in terms of attraction that rivals a woman's looks: Your words. So if you can't talk to these girls, how will you ever get the real 'you' out there? So I say, work on things that increase self confidence (I'd be careful of what advice I'd take out of here). Now by this I mean things such as reading books about understanding your worth, conquering a small fear, taking up that hobby/task you always wanted to do, getting more muscular, etc. Basically anything that makes you say "You know what, I'm awesome, and I don't need anyone to validate that for me". Then I would think at that point everything else will fall into place. So biology did not forsake men! We have our edge. It's up to us to realize our strong points that have been given to us and use them! You owe it to yourself. Edited October 3, 2011 by eatNrM
Star Gazer Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 So this is something I should just know...? I've never tried dating someone who started out as friends first, so this new territory for me...it wasn't until I got to know her as a friend that I became interested in more...so I don't really know what qualifies as strong interest... Is her behavior any different to you now than it was before? Something to show she's become interested in you in return? Does she flirt with you? More so than others?
Cracker Jack Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Yes, very much. But what Star is saying is true too. What if she isn't? That could be awkward... That's true. Situations like this are difficult. I'd like for you to at least try, but I can understand why you wouldn't, when considering the potential awkwardness that could come out of this. All I can say is try to do what you feel is best. Maybe she'll let you know the more you hang out with her. That's what I'm hoping for, anyway.
OnyxSnowfall Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Uh, no. No it's not. Seriously. The dread isn't the not going out, the dread is the rejection. Sorry, the first part was ok, but continually doubling it? That's stupid. And what happens if the guy does get rejected 30 or 70 times. You gonna take responsibility for his suicide? Unless you know girls are going to pursue you frequently, the outcome is the same as being rejected --- i.e, you're not going to be going out / spending intimate time with a girl. For better or worse, many females expect to be pursued. You don't do that --- what chance do you stand? Are you following me? So you're afraid they will reject you --- and because of that, you don't pursue --- that means you are... where? What happens when you pursue and they reject... that means you are... where? And then what happens when you pursue and they accept? If you didn't pursue, what do you think would have happened? The problem with dreading rejection and rationalizing avoiding it is that it's an attempt at "creating control" in areas where control is not within our full control, nor need it be. Creating control feels safer though, doesn't it? It feels better to reject before we're rejected... but we don't really know if we're always going to be rejected. The thing is, if someone has been rejected over 30 times and they haven't somehow grown an appendage of apathy / confidence, then yes, they can go back into their dark corner and pity themselves... lick their wounds and try something else when they mend enough. However. PROBABILITY dictates that at SOME point or another, something will give. If you NEVER take a chance, what's going to give? You can wait around for opportunities all day long... have fun with that... I at least realized long ago that most things have to be seized by their horns =P UpDownAllAround - I just meant to suggest that something generic but crucial may be the cause (not to claim it's your odor). Just listen to eatNrM
Author USMCHokie Posted October 3, 2011 Author Posted October 3, 2011 Is her behavior any different to you now than it was before? Something to show she's become interested in you in return? Does she flirt with you? More so than others? Yes, after we hung out outside of work with friends, she's been much more friendly with, and I could interpret her behavior as flirty. But if she IS giving signs of interest, she is doing it very subtly...and almost playing a push-pull game with me...one minute seemingly indifferent and the next very playful and friendly... I don't think either of us are overly flirty with each other at work in front of everyone else.
Star Gazer Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Yes, after we hung out outside of work with friends, she's been much more friendly with, and I could interpret her behavior as flirty. But if she IS giving signs of interest, she is doing it very subtly...and almost playing a push-pull game with me...one minute seemingly indifferent and the next very playful and friendly... I don't think either of us are overly flirty with each other at work in front of everyone else. What specifically makes you think she's flirting (sexual/romantic interest) if she's doing it so subtly? It sounds like she's just more friendly towards you because she knows you better after having spent time with you outside of work. If she was interested, she wouldn't be acting indifferent... ever.
Author USMCHokie Posted October 3, 2011 Author Posted October 3, 2011 What specifically makes you think she's flirting (sexual/romantic interest) if she's doing it so subtly? It sounds like she's just more friendly towards you because she knows you better after having spent time with you outside of work. If she was interested, she wouldn't be acting indifferent... ever. Yea, you're probably right...I guess the only thing I have to go off of is her asking to do stuff with me outside of work...she is fun to hang out with even as friends, so I can always just treat her like one of the guys and move on with my life...besides, she got Pendleton and I'm going to 29 Palms...it'd practically be long distance right there...
UpDownAllAround Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 As much of a sweetheart as Onyx is, that advice is not going far enough. I think your best bet, upanddown, is to consult resources that better you as a person. As a man, I feel that our greatest hurdles in life will always be the ones that will occur in our mind. Men do not have the luxury of looks. Looks are a woman's primary lure to attract a male, which is why whether she takes the initiative or not (such as onyx), their success rate is very high. It's the mating edge that's been bestowed upon them by biology. So it becomes a battle of will you go the distance to conquer your inner fears? (no simple task) I would say trying online is awesome, but you have to remember something. You are simply a page in an extremely huge catalog that women will go through, and as such will be relying on your physical looks and profile structure. You essentially deprive yourself of the one thing men have been given in terms of attraction that rivals a woman's looks: Your words. So if you can't talk to these girls, how will you ever get the real 'you' out there? So I say, work on things that increase self confidence (I'd be careful of what advice I'd take out of here). Now by this I mean things such as reading books about understanding your worth, conquering a small fear, taking up that hobby/task you always wanted to do, getting more muscular, etc. Basically anything that makes you say "You know what, I'm awesome, and I don't need anyone to validate that for me". Then I would think at that point everything else will fall into place. So biology did not forsake men! We have our edge. It's up to us to realize our strong points that have been given to us and use them! You owe it to yourself. Actually, I've been working on quite a few of those. Working on bettering my career (supposed to hear about a new job that will get me way way way more money pretty soon), learning to play guitar (I already know how to play piano), expanding my abilities in what I already know, etc. In all these standard areas of life my self confidence is maxed out. Career? No problem. Music? No problem. Approaching girls (both online and in person)? No problem. Getting further with them and getting that date? Therein lies the issue. I already know I'm awesome. I really don't know how much more self confidence I can get before my ego explodes. I want to get further than just friendship with the freaking girl!!!! I know I'm worth it - how the freaking h*** do I do it!!
ChessPieceFace Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Unless you know girls are going to pursue you frequently, the outcome is the same as being rejected --- i.e, you're not going to be going out / spending intimate time with a girl. For better or worse, many females expect to be pursued. You don't do that --- what chance do you stand? The argument wasn't whether trying is required for success (it is.) The argument is that you are pretending rejection is identical to not trying, and it is not. So you're afraid they will reject you --- and because of that, you don't pursue --- that means you are... where? What happens when you pursue and they reject... that means you are... where? Rejected, humiliated, crushed, down on yourself, feeling justified at feeling like there's something wrong with you, because you just got confirmation. And then what happens when you pursue and they accept? If you didn't pursue, what do you think would have happened? You would still be lonely and also wondering what might have been, but you wouldn't be humilated, crushed and rejected. How about this -- what if I told you I could see the future, and that a woman you really liked WOULD reject you, for 100% certain. Do you really still feel nothing would be to lose by asking her out and being rejected? How about if it's in a public setting? Mutual friends knowing about it. Being rejected hurts and shouldn't be trivialized or ignored. That's just insulting and arrogant. Do you have to accept the reality that you will be rejected -- yes. But don't act like it's a non-event.
OnyxSnowfall Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 The argument wasn't whether trying is required for success (it is.) The argument is that you are pretending rejection is identical to not trying, and it is not. Rejected, humiliated, crushed, down on yourself, feeling justified at feeling like there's something wrong with you, because you just got confirmation. You would still be lonely and also wondering what might have been, but you wouldn't be humilated, crushed and rejected. How about this -- what if I told you I could see the future, and that a woman you really liked WOULD reject you, for 100% certain. Do you really still feel nothing would be to lose by asking her out and being rejected? How about if it's in a public setting? Mutual friends knowing about it. Being rejected hurts and shouldn't be trivialized or ignored. That's just insulting and arrogant. Do you have to accept the reality that you will be rejected -- yes. But don't act like it's a non-event. I'm stating the outcome is essentially equivalent. In reality, nothing has been truly lost or gained. In your head...? Well... I'm not stating that feelings are There would be nothing to *prevail* over if they were... I'm not sure how you perceived I was insinuating that it was a non-event... given that I wrote that it's something that has to, yes, be overcome (and that often times the *hardest* [ nothing claiming easiest ] part is the start) so... I apologize for coming across as trivializing it. Nonetheless, I certainly know what it's like to be rejected --- I think most people do. I've just learned not to take it personally unless otherwise informed... and then I assess it more thoroughly. People have various ways of coping with rejection --- rejection takes many forms in life. Cowering from it is does not usually result in something beneficial / productive. One can't be forced to take a risk. If the potential consequences will crush one / are not worth the possible reward, well, so be it. I don't see how *commonly* succumbing to any fear is satisfying, though.
Nexus One Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Is her behavior any different to you now than it was before? Something to show she's become interested in you in return? Does she flirt with you? More so than others? If she was interested, she wouldn't be acting indifferent... ever. While it seems intuitive to think that way, every now and then it's the girls that give you nothing, absolutely nothing, no smiles, no glances, no nothing...that are the ones that are completely head over heels or open to approach.
The Outlaw Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Just ask her out. You never know, you may not get rejected at all. And it's worth doing it so you can ease your fear over future rejections. Best of luck
Author USMCHokie Posted October 4, 2011 Author Posted October 4, 2011 Pursuant to my no dating for a year thread, I decided I need to move on from this one...if I'm still this unsure about myself, then it's probably not the time to start thinking about dating...
Star Gazer Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 29 Palms, eh? Hope you have lots of gas money to get you out of there on a regular basis! While it seems intuitive to think that way, every now and then it's the girls that give you nothing, absolutely nothing, no smiles, no glances, no nothing...that are the ones that are completely head over heels or open to approach. Do you EVER agree with ANYTHING I say? Yes, there are always exceptions, but the exceptions prove the rule. And in this instance, a woman who gives absolutely no signs of interest is the most dangerous prospect for someone with a crippling fear of rejection.
AD1980 Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Im crippled by that fear also..Being 31 and never in a relationship or told im remotely attractive is why..if i had any sucess at all at least id know some women are into me and i probably wouldnt fear rejection so much... If i get rejected it reaffirms to me women arent attracted to me..Which is why i dont even try anymore.. If i was in your postion and had been in a relatinship and have a lot of women tell me how attractive iam i dont think id take rejection that harshly knownig theyres tons of women who are attracted to me..
Nexus One Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Do you EVER agree with ANYTHING I say? I actually pretty much agree with you most of the time SG, almost always, but it wouldn't make sense for me to make a post that says "I agree with SG" every time I agree with you, that would be kind of weird I think. So instead, in case of agreement with you I tend to not post a reaction, unless there's something I can jump in on for whatever reason. That being said, I too can see some similarities between Emma Stone and you in some of your pictures. So I agree with you on that. You have big blue beautiful eyes fairly similar to Emma Stone in the picture where you wear that cap (killer smile btw). You also seem to have similar hair, which in my opinion is apparent in the picture where you wear a blue coat/jacket, not to mention you look like the cutest most adorable thing in that photo, makes me go awwwww. Those two styles really seem to fit you.
PelicanPete Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 I feared rejection at one point myself. I later came to the conclusion I was so scared of being rejected because I was so afraid of what other people would think or say about me if I did ask someone out and she said no. I was afraid of her telling all of her friends, and then her friends telling everyone else, and then being labelled as the guy that got rejected by so and so . I eventually came to the conclusion that I can't identify my life under other peoples opinions of who I am, because I would never be happy that way. Gradually I stopped caring so much about what other people thought about me and started focusing on how I thought about myself. I started pursuing things for the benefit of myself as a person, and not things that were socially praised. To get to your situation, all it is really is a question. If you're too scared to ask a girl out, how are you suppose to form a strong relationship with her? A healthy relationship is all about putting your emotions out there and communicating your thoughts to someone no matter what the circumstances. If you're so unsure of yourself before the relationship even started, what would happen if you do end up becoming boyfriend/girlfriend? You don't need to make a huge deal about it, just ask if she wants to go get coffee or something when your shift is over. She will give you an answer, and life will go on regardless.
Johnny85 Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 I saw your pictures, and you're a good looking, well dressed guy (this coming from a straight guy). You just need to get over those negative thoughts that are hindering you.
Jynxx Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Didnt read the whole thread but op: -"being friendly with" before attraction = friendzone. Don't fall into the trap, it may seem like the easy way but it's a trap. -you'll need to get over your fear, there are no shortcuts That is all. Good luck.
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