Steen719 Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 From the article you quoted: "It is also worth noting that 74% of men say that they still feel unfulfilled even if their wives give in to their every sexual whim and desire. It appears that being unfaithful has more to do with emotional satisfaction rather than plain sex alone." This is not what I thought a lot of affairs were about, but do think it was true in my STBXH's case.
nyrias2 Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 From the article you quoted: "It is also worth noting that 74% of men say that they still feel unfulfilled even if their wives give in to their every sexual whim and desire. It appears that being unfaithful has more to do with emotional satisfaction rather than plain sex alone." This is not what I thought a lot of affairs were about, but do think it was true in my STBXH's case. That is why finding out facts is important and you may not understand affairs as much as you think when you are only faced with one. My take is that it is very prevalent with a lot of psychological causes. Thus, it begs the question of whether a monogamy never-ending marriage institution is appropriate for the human condition. Many will be better off if marriage has an expiration date with an option to renew.
Owl Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 Maybe people who feel that they can't remain monogamous simply shouldn't marry? Or...set the expectations of a "different kind of marriage" up front, rather than attempt to change the situation unilaterally somewhere down the road? I think marriage works great for many...and it doesn't work at all for some. People need to know or figure out what it is that's gonna work for them, and set expectations up front with their spouse as part of their vows?
Negative Nancy Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 From the article you quoted: "It is also worth noting that 74% of men say that they still feel unfulfilled even if their wives give in to their every sexual whim and desire. It appears that being unfaithful has more to do with emotional satisfaction rather than plain sex alone." This is not what I thought a lot of affairs were about, but do think it was true in my STBXH's case. I think it is not so much being emotionally unfulfilled, but unfulfilled with just one woman, or should I say the same woman for many years. I mean, how often do we read on here that men want variety and grow tired of the same ol' same ol'. Read up on the "coolidge effect". Women often are a "one man woman", men are a "many women man". Sad, but true.
KathyM Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 People act like it's impossible for a man to stay faithful. Some men value other things, like their bond with their wife, their family, God, and character, and would never bring themselves to cheat on a spouse. There are plenty of men who can be trusted, and don't want to live shallow lives only seeking their own sexual satisfaction from wherever they can get it. I think men in general are depicted unfairly on these boards sometimes. Some men are cheaters and don't have the capacity to be faithful because of a character flaw or selfishness on their part, but many men would never jeopardize what they have or lower themselves to that level. Statistics show (from what I've read), anywhere from 24% to 52% of men have cheated on their wives or SO. That means that the other 48% to 76% have remained faithful. Men can be and are monogamous. It's only some that choose not to be.
nyrias2 Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 Maybe people who feel that they can't remain monogamous simply shouldn't marry? Agreed. The problem is that many simply change. May be they believed it when they married and change later. I read here lots of people marrying young, and then became BS/WS after 15-20 years. I don't think everyone of them lied when they got married 15 years ago. It is simply that no one would know how they can change in a decade. Society put unrealistic rose glasses over marriage and people wrongly believe things will be great 15 years down the road. That is just silly. No one can predict how one would change in 15 years.
bentnotbroken Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 Agreed. The problem is that many simply change. May be they believed it when they married and change later. I read here lots of people marrying young, and then became BS/WS after 15-20 years. I don't think everyone of them lied when they got married 15 years ago. It is simply that no one would know how they can change in a decade. Society put unrealistic rose glasses over marriage and people wrongly believe things will be great 15 years down the road. That is just silly. No one can predict how one would change in 15 years. Everything you say is true. I can't agree more. I do have a problem with someone who 15-20 years down the road decides to become a liar instead of informing the other spouse...."I am going to be with someone else, because I no longer feel the same way about you." Hard to do-yes. Painful for the BS-yes...impossible-no. There are people who actually do this. They go to their spouses and say I want to leave because I am no longer happy here. Imagine that?
Author aloneinnyc Posted October 20, 2011 Author Posted October 20, 2011 Everything you say is true. I can't agree more. I do have a problem with someone who 15-20 years down the road decides to become a liar instead of informing the other spouse...."I am going to be with someone else, because I no longer feel the same way about you." Hard to do-yes. Painful for the BS-yes...impossible-no. There are people who actually do this. They go to their spouses and say I want to leave because I am no longer happy here. Imagine that? The worst part for me is that my WH was still happy with our marriage -- he just wanted more. He didn't get emotionally attached to someone else. He had a PA with no real emotional connection. It was like a high school crush. I think he just got bored -- mainly with his job, but clearly also with me. But I believe him when he says he still feels the same way about me. The problem is he thinks that's enough to repair our M, whereas I see that as the ultimate betrayal. To cheat when you are happy in your M and never want it to end, but just want more.
nyrias2 Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 Everything you say is true. I can't agree more. I do have a problem with someone who 15-20 years down the road decides to become a liar instead of informing the other spouse...."I am going to be with someone else, because I no longer feel the same way about you." Hard to do-yes. Painful for the BS-yes...impossible-no. There are people who actually do this. They go to their spouses and say I want to leave because I am no longer happy here. Imagine that? You pointed out the reason why so many lie. It is hard NOT to. The whole long term marriage set up, particularly for those who wed young, is conducive to affairs. It combines both a high likelihood to change, and an easier way out (not to confront). It does not make cheating right, but it explains why it is so prevalent. One solution is NOT to glorify marriage, or put an expiration date on it.
Owl Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 Or to just end it when you feel it's over, without starting a new relationship with someone else first...or spending some length of time lying to your partner about it. I don't have an issue with divorce, if that's the path that someone feels they need to take. But I do have an issue with cheating while married, and/or lying to your partner about the situation. That's where the real "issue" is here. Not whether or not marriage is "right"...but whether or not infidelity is "wrong". Divorce is always an option...infidelity is only the option of those that aren't willing to "do it the right way".
bentnotbroken Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 You pointed out the reason why so many lie. It is hard NOT to. The whole long term marriage set up, particularly for those who wed young, is conducive to affairs. It combines both a high likelihood to change, and an easier way out (not to confront). It does not make cheating right, but it explains why it is so prevalent. One solution is NOT to glorify marriage, or put an expiration date on it. I am of the school of thought that nothing makes you lie unless of course you like to avoid telling the truth. Not age, gender, length of time in a relationship, number of children. All the things that life throws us are reasons to lie. Looking for the easy way is typical of those who don't want to face real life head on. "Hard not" just seems(for lack of a better word)....lame. It is hard to be mature. It is hard to get up and go to work some days too. It is hard to be a parent. It is hard to be a good relative. It is hard to live with integrity...no doubt about it. But some how, some way, there are those who do just those things....life is hard. How we choose to live it shouldn't be an easy. It should take some thought and recognition of the consequences of our choices.
nyrias2 Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 I am of the school of thought that nothing makes you lie unless of course you like to avoid telling the truth. Not age, gender, length of time in a relationship, number of children. All the things that life throws us are reasons to lie. Looking for the easy way is typical of those who don't want to face real life head on. "Hard not" just seems(for lack of a better word)....lame. It is hard to be mature. It is hard to get up and go to work some days too. It is hard to be a parent. It is hard to be a good relative. It is hard to live with integrity...no doubt about it. But some how, some way, there are those who do just those things....life is hard. How we choose to live it shouldn't be an easy. It should take some thought and recognition of the consequences of our choices. "How we choose to live it shouldn't be an easy" ... many do choose the easy way. You make it very clear how to conduct your life. That is just not true for many others, despite what they play lip service too. I also want to raise another point. Live with integrity and not lying is a COMPLETELY different issue than "recognition of the consequences of our choices". MOST cheaters (the reference has been posted before, so i am not doing it again) are not caught. Even caught, not all suffer a divorce. And some don't care anyway. So in the consequence point of view, many times there is little consequences for cheating. So *if* consequence is the only thing people care about, there WILL be a lot more cheating and lying.
bentnotbroken Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 "How we choose to live it shouldn't be an easy" ... many do choose the easy way. You make it very clear how to conduct your life. That is just not true for many others, despite what they play lip service too. I also want to raise another point. Live with integrity and not lying is a COMPLETELY different issue than "recognition of the consequences of our choices". MOST cheaters (the reference has been posted before, so i am not doing it again) are not caught. Even caught, not all suffer a divorce. And some don't care anyway. So in the consequence point of view, many times there is little consequences for cheating. So *if* consequence is the only thing people care about, there WILL be a lot more cheating and lying. Possibly. But I think that divorce isn't the only consequence that one can sufffer. At least in my experience.
nyrias2 Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 Possibly. But I think that divorce isn't the only consequence that one can sufffer. At least in my experience. Sure. There is also guilt, embarrassment, conflict (yelling/fighting) and stuff like that. The real question is for all the foreseeable consequences, whether the BS will care. The principle of "not lying" and "integrity" obviously are NOT enough for MOST human beings.
bentnotbroken Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 Sure. There is also guilt, embarrassment, conflict (yelling/fighting) and stuff like that. The real question is for all the foreseeable consequences, whether the BS will care. The principle of "not lying" and "integrity" obviously are NOT enough for MOST human beings. I was thinking of passing diseases around. Does happen more than we like to believe. I still have faith that not lying and integrity are enough for most human beings, it just those without make it hard for those who do.
bosunmate Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 I was thinking of passing diseases around. Does happen more than we like to believe. I still have faith that not lying and integrity are enough for most human beings, it just those without make it hard for those who do. I hear you......
nyrias2 Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 I was thinking of passing diseases around. Does happen more than we like to believe. I still have faith that not lying and integrity are enough for most human beings, it just those without make it hard for those who do. Do you have actual evidence to back up the statement "does happen more than we like to believe". Does that include proper use of protection? Furthermore, diseases obviously do NOT apply to EAs. I think your faith is grossly misplaced. The statistics show that MOST human beings cheat (i am not posting those again, easy to find). Given that SOME human beings do not cheat because of lack of opportunities, fear of discovery and other non-integrity related reasons, I highly doubt that integrity applies to MOST human beings.
bentnotbroken Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 Do you have actual evidence to back up the statement "does happen more than we like to believe". Does that include proper use of protection? Furthermore, diseases obviously do NOT apply to EAs. I think your faith is grossly misplaced. The statistics show that MOST human beings cheat (i am not posting those again, easy to find). Given that SOME human beings do not cheat because of lack of opportunities, fear of discovery and other non-integrity related reasons, I highly doubt that integrity applies to MOST human beings. I appreciate your opinion. Mine is just different.
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