H of 16 yrs cheated for the first time

[2sunny]

why should this OP settle? what reason does she have to go back - UNLESS her H does the work necessary to understand why he cheated - and the work necessary to re-establish a new healthy relationship IF the M is to continue...

 

this OP is showing strength and courage - she looks healthy - her H is the one who seems like a selfish little boy who is sad because he got CAUGHT stealing the cookie! then trying to blame stealing the cookie on outside forces instead of owning HIS behavior and setting things right to make change happen within the M.

 

since he's not looking WITHIN - there's no reason to believe that he will change. he's only offering his broken self for the time being... so there's nothing the OP needs to do - except wait and see if this little boy grows up into the man he COULD be. a man doesn't blame others for his bad behavior - a man doesn't go looking for outside attention when he doesn't get enough from his W- a man doesn't live life being self centered and selfish - a real man is honest and up front about his feelings and what his needs are...

 

this H needs time to grow up - own the way HE participated - and start to be honest... even by telling her when he is vulnerable to outside attention instead of selfishly cheating the M. IF he's not willing to do the growing and introspection about how HE participated - there isn't anything his W can do to make that happen for him - and there is no M if that is the case.

 

i think she's being terribly lenient by giving him a year to grow... but he's squandering his time by blame shifting and circumstances of having no job as his excuse for low self esteem.

 

he cheated - he has a second chance and he's not being productive in changing his perspective by owning his bad behavior = NONE of that is the W (OP) fault.

 

personally - i think her H acts like a spoiled baby - and this next year will be a waste of time by waiting... mainly because most folks that are this selfish and self centered don't change that core being... and his INACTION isn't looking too promising.

 

i am realistic - as i work from actions/inactions - and EVIDENCE.

 

that is why i can't see the benefit for this W... i admire her strength and dignity! i don't say that often here = take it as a huge compliment! hugs

[aloneinnyc]

that is why i can't see the benefit for this W... i admire her strength and dignity! i don't say that often here = take it as a huge compliment! hugs

 

Thank you!! You made my day! (Granted, these days it's not saying all that much, but you honestly did make me feel better about myself. I am trying so hard to make it through this without losing my soul!)

[2sunny]

No person or thing is worth selling your soul... IF you even think for a minute that you may be doing so - consider that nothing is worth THAT! Take it from a gal who has learned the hard way - to hell and back - you deserve to respect yourself and have others treat you with respect and regard you as well...if they aren't - there's no point in putting time or energy worrying about growing negative energy bigger. We teach others how to treat us... Never settle.

[Goldenspoon]

 

Sorry for rambling. Sometimes I start typing and don't know how to stop!

 

 

How did work find out about the cheating that got him fired?

[aloneinnyc]

How did work find out about the cheating that got him fired?

 

This is where things get complicated. We all worked for the same place, but I am way higher in the company then either of them (with OW being one step above an intern, and H being OW's direct supervisor). OW and H essentially did their work for me. After I discovered the cheating, H vowed never to contact OW again except for an email to OW confirming that I knew about their relationship (H told her the day I found out), telling OW their personal relationship was over, and then asking OW what her next steps would be. She then hired a lawyer who called H about coming up with a settlement. At that point, I knew we had to tell the company or else I risked losing my job because I knew H couldn't negotiate with a lawyer without telling the company. When I told the company, I told them I would never work with OW. I said I was willing to work with H.

 

The company then decided not to renew OW's contract when it came up, which was a month after I called them about what happened. They were going to keep H, but OW hired a new lawyer who is adamant that it violates company policy to fire her and keep H, even though H is a more important employee. So, the company decided it was just easier to fire them both, so now H is leaving, too.

 

This was all pretty foreseeable because the company has a strict policy that forbids relationships between supervisors and employees. H knew it, too.

[reboot]

http://www.infidelityfacts.com/infidelity-statistics.html

 

you can contact them for their actual methodologies.

 

That says 57%, not 70%.

[2sunny]

So he took a job that was gifted to him and trashed an opportunity to do well and contribute to the family... All for a few kisses? Sounds absurd! But If he's truly remorseful and going to make amends (to set things right) for his wrong doings - he should be finding a good paying job and contributing. IF you divorce - he could royally screw you- he could take half of your income. He may quietly resent you for earning more - an ego crusher for some men. He put your name in a bad light by acting on his impulse. He didn't consider harm he would cause... He sounds like an impulsive selfish narcissist. Did he even show remorse for all the harm he brought to you and your workplace- what is he doing to repair all of that HE caused? Or is it still all about him?

[aloneinnyc]

So he took a job that was gifted to him and trashed an opportunity to do well and contribute to the family... All for a few kisses? Sounds absurd! But If he's truly remorseful and going to make amends (to set things right) for his wrong doings - he should be finding a good paying job and contributing. IF you divorce - he could royally screw you- he could take half of your income. He may quietly resent you for earning more - an ego crusher for some men. He put your name in a bad light by acting on his impulse. He didn't consider harm he would cause... He sounds like an impulsive selfish narcissist. Did he even show remorse for all the harm he brought to you and your workplace- what is he doing to repair all of that HE caused? Or is it still all about him?

 

It's been so humiliating to me that this happened where I work. The president of the company has been very kind to me, but I can barely look at him because he knows my H had an "inappropriate relationship" with this woman. I just feel like a failure and an idiot for staking my reputation on my H and to have him behave this way.

 

H is looking for a job now, and it will likely pay more than the one he gave up, but with way longer hours. When I discovered the A, I immediately went to a lawyer. (I am a lawyer, so that was practically a reflex!) I got H to sign a post-nuptual agreement last month to protect my income going forward and to avoid any risk I'd be stuck with alimony. And we split our assets, too. So financially, it's as if we're already divorced. We are separate entities now. The only issue that would be different if we did get divorced would be child support, because we're doing that informally right now.

 

H seems to be trying to fix this, which right now means finding a new job. But it's pretty obvious that he remains his own top priority. He feels sorry for himself most of all, and then only secondarily does he seem to feel sorry for me (though I believe he does -- just not as much as himself). I can give you an example: our son's birthday was last weekend, and we were both there for the party. It was great. So cute and I had the first happy day in a long time. H, on the other hand, couldn't stop himself from crying when it was over. Now, if he was thinking of me, he would have been happy to see that I could have a happy day for once. Instead, he was clearly crying because of what he lost. He had to leave our home after the party was over, and that's when he got all teary-eyed. I realized then that he's mainly sad that he lost this life, and he's not nearly focused on how painful this has been for me.

[2sunny]

does he show other tendencies toward narcissism?

 

 

The following is not an exhaustive list of the traits of a narcissist. This is a simplified explanation of certain signs that will help you to identify if you are involved with a narcissist.

 

1. The most tell tale sign of a narcissist is that they do not have the capacity to empathize. In other words, someone with empathy can feel what you are feeling and understand. They can “feel your pain” and they care. On the other hand a narcissist cannot feel your pain.

 

2. They have an overriding need to be the center of attention. They must be appreciated and if you do not appreciate them the way they think you should they will take their anger out on you.

 

3. A narcissist, when faced with anything like an insult, will withdraw. They will not talk about the problem they will isolate themselves.

 

4. They have a need to be thought of as special and want you to prove that to them that they are special all the time. Anything less is a betrayal and you will pay for that.

 

5. They are perfectionists and want you to be perfect too. Because if you are not perfect it reflects on their image. They don’t care about you, they only care that the image you project mirrors how they see themselves.

 

6. They can often fly off into rages if their needs are not met to their specified idea of what they deserve.

 

7. They are dependent on praise from others.

 

8. They are emotionally unavailable.

 

9. They may choose you as a partner only because you have qualities that they don’t have and they seek to possess them by possessing you.

 

10. They draw partners to them who are fearful of abandonment.

 

11. They may distort the good intentions of their partner.

 

12. Narcissists tend to be arrogant and vane. They have an unreasonable need to

achieve.

 

13. They can never put your needs above theirs.

 

14. They will not be able to enjoy your successes. They are envious if something good happens to you.

 

15. They often choose a partner with low self-esteem. This gives them a sense of superiority. They will seek to keep you down in order to prop themselves up.

 

16. They love themselves so much that they can never love you.

 

17. They blame others for any failures they may have.

 

18. They can appear confident and charming and are often very attractive.

 

19. They are often high achievers. Achieving only for their own self-aggrandizement.

 

20. If you challenge them in a relationship or try to get them to care about your needs they will cheat on you without a thought.

 

Number 20 can be the most devastating part of being involved in a narcissistic relationship. You love them and they don’t care. You have given them your all and they can and will turn on you and start a relationship with someone else. They are incapable of caring about how that affects you. You find out the person you thought loved you was never capable of loving you in the first place. It’s a nightmare.

[nyrias2]

That says 57%, not 70%.

 

And i quote:

 

Percentage of men who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 74%

[aloneinnyc]

does he show other tendencies toward narcissism?

 

 

 

I don't think this describes my H. I think his problems are that he is immature and over confident and has never really experienced any adversity or challenges in his life. Until now, of course. So, I think he just figured he'd get away with this and he was too immature and selfish to stop himself before he got caught.

[woinlove]

And i quote:

 

Percentage of men who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 74%

 

I wonder what percentage of men say they would steal money if they knew they would never get caught? Maybe it is the percentage some studies claim have cheated on taxes, about 70%?

 

Not sure what that tells us except for the percentage who answer no - they are likely making a statement that their own integrity is more important than money or multiple lovers - as the case may be. Even the ones who answer yes may choose to act with integrity when presented with reality rather than a hypothetical.

 

Most people like sex, attention, love, money -- what matters (and what distinguishes them as individuals) is how they go about bringing these into their life and whether they act with integrity, respect, love,... or not. I'm not sure what your point is to the OP, nyrias - I know you are saying that many men cheat, but is the point that the OP should respond in some way to her H cheating because of that?

[2sunny]

doesn't seem that he's sorry he did this - only sorry he got caught... makes me think it's not his first time.

 

since he's not doing the action to REPAIR what harm he CAUSED YOU _ YOUR JOB _ YOUR M - why are you even giving him time? more time to think of himself?

 

i think you deserve a man who puts YOU first - thinks of you first - and shows respect and regard for you.

 

the way you describe his approach to his counseling - he's still only thinking of himself... and with that mindset - there's no way he's going to repair the damage he caused... he's just going to wait until enough time passes where you forget about the terrible way he treated you.

 

that's not enough.

 

why wait? he's not DOING his part in what action needs to be DONE!

[BillH]

Thanks to all for the replies. We've been living separately since I found out -- the thought of him being physically near me repulses me -- so I'm not sure that it's fair to say I'm working on anything. I've agreed to go to MC, and we're both in IC. And I've agreed not to decide anything for a year. But I don't want to be alone with him (we have to see each other because of my son and for work, and we're civil to each other). I can't stand the thought of him ever touching me again. I just don't trust him anymore, and I've lost so much respect for him. (He cheated with someone who worked for him, so he might still be fired for it.) We've been together so long, but those all seem like distant memories to me now. I just see a future with him of me never letting down my guard again and feeling like I settled for someone beneath me. Even if it means being alone for the rest of my life, I think I'd be happier because I'd have my self respect.

 

Sorry for the rant. Tomorrow is our wedding anniversary, and I'm particularly sad this weekend that it's all come to this. I just don't understand cheating when the marriage is strong and the cheater has everything to lose (his marriage, his job). We had a decent sex life -- I never said no -- and what I thought was great communication. It just doesn't make any sense. It's like he just snapped and became a different person who needed to try someone new and couldn't pass on an opportunity even if it meant losing everything in his life.

 

I'm not sure how much help I can be to you as I'm experiencing pretty much the same things you are/were. I had dreams as well telling me something was up. Our councilor says it's some kind of intuition thing. IDK. My wife and I have been married for 20 years this year. What seems to make things worse for me right now is not having someone to talk to about it. I just wanted to say to you that you/we are not alone.

[aloneinnyc]

I'm not sure how much help I can be to you as I'm experiencing pretty much the same things you are/were. I had dreams as well telling me something was up. Our councilor says it's some kind of intuition thing. IDK. My wife and I have been married for 20 years this year. What seems to make things worse for me right now is not having someone to talk to about it. I just wanted to say to you that you/we are not alone.

 

I'm sorry to hear you're going through the same thing. How long ago did you find out? It's been four months since D-Day for me, and I wish I had a better sense of what to do/how to handle it. But I am better than I was in the beginning -- I can sleep and eat now -- so if you're just discovering it, I can at least tell you that some things get better. It also really helped me to tell some close friends.

[BillH]

I'm sorry to hear you're going through the same thing. How long ago did you find out? It's been four months since D-Day for me, and I wish I had a better sense of what to do/how to handle it. But I am better than I was in the beginning -- I can sleep and eat now -- so if you're just discovering it, I can at least tell you that some things get better. It also really helped me to tell some close friends.

It's been about 2 weeks for me now. I hear you about sleeping and eating. I've lost about 5 lbs and have to take antidepressants before I go to bed or I wouldn't get any sleep. I don't have a huge group of friends but have a couple of friends and lots of family members to talk to. I'm glad to hear that some things get better because it sure doesn't feel like that right now.

[mzdolphin]

What you said makes a lot of sense to me. If he developed strong feelings for her it would hurt like hell, but it would make his actions more understandable. He cheated when there weren't any marital problems and your lives were good. What happens when you get sick or you have financial problems?

 

Those who can cheat without an emotional connection seem more dangerous to me than those who cheat when there is an emotional connection. At least with the latter you can take steps together as a couple to prevent emotional attachment to another woman.

 

Have you snooped around to see if this is truly his first affair? Cheaters rarely tell the truth.

 

Reconciliation is hard work. Really hard. I've seen one close family friend do it and it took a LONG time and a long time of mistrust and worry.

-------------------

 

Ok, this is where we women need to understand that men don't act or think like us. It is far better that it was meaningless drunken sex. I covered sports, have five brothers and have done marketing for men's fragrances and skincare. I listen to sports talk radio all day. I'm telling you ladies, if you learn nothing else, even if the sex is great, a guy will not think of leaving a wife he loves for the OW unless their is some emotional connection and appreciation goes a long way with men. I told my sister of the BS in my case, "I'm sure he probably said it meant nothing to him. But she would be devastated if she found out we spent many days playing tennis. That he called to tell me his brother died. That he sought my advice on work and shared his fears. Confided about his resentment toward the aunt who raised him," I find those a bigger act of betrayal than the sex. Because at that point he's sharing his life.

[mzdolphin]

This is where things get complicated. We all worked for the same place, but I am way higher in the company then either of them (with OW being one step above an intern, and H being OW's direct supervisor). OW and H essentially did their work for me. After I discovered the cheating, H vowed never to contact OW again except for an email to OW confirming that I knew about their relationship (H told her the day I found out), telling OW their personal relationship was over, and then asking OW what her next steps would be. She then hired a lawyer who called H about coming up with a settlement. At that point, I knew we had to tell the company or else I risked losing my job because I knew H couldn't negotiate with a lawyer without telling the company. When I told the company, I told them I would never work with OW. I said I was willing to work with H.

 

The company then decided not to renew OW's contract when it came up, which was a month after I called them about what happened. They were going to keep H, but OW hired a new lawyer who is adamant that it violates company policy to fire her and keep H, even though H is a more important employee. So, the company decided it was just easier to fire them both, so now H is leaving, too.

 

This was all pretty foreseeable because the company has a strict policy that forbids relationships between supervisors and employees. H knew it, too.

 

 

Hmmmmm. I hope you have a good lawyer because if it's on the record that you wanted her fired and not him and you were the one who told, she could sue you. Even if she doesn't win it could bring you down.

[woinlove]

Hmmmmm. I hope you have a good lawyer because if it's on the record that you wanted her fired and not him and you were the one who told, she could sue you. Even if she doesn't win it could bring you down.

 

This comment seems way off base, mzdophin. aloneinnyc didn't fire the OW. The company could have chosen to fire aloneinnyc if they wanted to -- they obviously didn't. What could the OW possibly sue aloneinnyc for - for not wanting to work with her? That's not against the law. For giving the company true information about her personal life that was affecting her work? Again, not against the law. You post doesn't make sense.

[Afishwithabike]

Hmmmmm. I hope you have a good lawyer because if it's on the record that you wanted her fired and not him and you were the one who told, she could sue you. Even if she doesn't win it could bring you down.

 

According to previous posts, both the OP and her husband are attorneys so I would say she has a good lawyer however you look at it!

 

I happen to be an attorney as well. I don't see liability for aloneinnyc.

[mzdolphin]

As an attorney you also know that people sue even if they don't have a good case. Cost time and money. That's all I'm talking about. The woman is not only scorned, but she lost her job. I'm just saying she needs to protect herself.

[woinlove]

As an attorney you also know that people sue even if they don't have a good case. Cost time and money. That's all I'm talking about. The woman is not only scorned, but she lost her job. I'm just saying she needs to protect herself.

 

But this seems like a complete nonstarter. aloneinnyc didn't fire her, what could she possibly sue aloneinnyc for? Note that aloneinnyc's H also lost his job and admits the A, so trying to deny the A is a nonstarter. It is not a matter of not having a "good case", it is a matter of trying to think of some angle to even get started on a case.