H of 16 yrs cheated for the first time

[Steen719]

Thanks for sharing your story -- I'm so sorry to hear you have had to go through the pain of infidelity twice. The fear of facing this again is paralyzing. I don't think I would have the strength to come back from this kind of shock again, and I really admire what you are doing. {{HUGS}} right back to you!

 

Hey Alone,

One difference in our situations is that, on both situations with my H, he chose old girlfriends, not someone he had no emotional connection with. I'm not sure, in my and your situation, what you (or a MC) would consider "better" for the marriage. For me, it was clearly that my H yearned for lost loves and when comparing me to them, they were what he wanted. It felt an intensely personal choice and if this makes any sense, it told me that not only did he not have the moral compass I would have hoped he did, but that he had some deep disappointment with his life with me and yearned for what might have been with these other women. I'm not saying it would be better if he had chosen someone he did not have the connection with, because, like you, I would have thought he threw away his life for nothing other than something different for a little while, or validation, or whatever he was seeking. Not having experienced that, it is hard for me to decide, but of the two, the desire to be with an old love seems more indicative of deep discontent with his life.

 

You find strength when you think you cannot and one thing I can tell you is that I can remember how I never thought I would feel any better (after the 1st time), but that before I made the decision to stay together, I started feeling better and stronger. No matter which way you end up going, you will feel better. Be strong and honest and stay true to your beliefs and your values. It is one thing that I take some comfort in, even now. No revenge affairs, no games, no lying.

 

Thanks for the hugs back! I take encouragement where I can.

[aloneinnyc]

 

As for your H not understanding why he did what he did, he might not know...yet. Is he in IC? I am assuming that he wants to remain married to you? He might not have figured himself out yet but if he wants to remain with you, that might be the incentive he needs to work through his issues. (yes, he has issues!)

 

He does want to stay married -- more than anything. We had a great marriage, and he knows it. It's part of the mystery of all this. We weren't having any problems and never had. We were best friends and loved being with each other. His cheating was something he did in his office and only there -- he refused to take the OW out to dinner, for example. (It takes a special kind of OW to be willing to make out in an office and have no contact outside of it, but I think she was okay with it because she was cheating on her long-term boyfriend, so that way neither she nor my WH thought they would get caught. But I also think they were going to end soon when I caught him because neither of them felt the way they were doing it was "satisfactory." That was what his note said.) He didn't even work late to be with her. That's why it was a miracle I even caught him -- there were no signs at all until I had this dream that I couldn't shake. It's also why I don't think transparency would ever help me. They did this basically entirely with in person meetings at work, and only a couple text messages one weekend. I never saw this coming and there were no signs or tracks. And I work in the same company, so the fact I didn't see it happening is what makes me realize I'll never catch this again if he's working somewhere else. (Which he'll now have to do.)

 

I think my H must have some issues, but so far he's come up with nothing after 4 months of IC other than that he thinks he was bored at work and got lazy about everything in his life, including his marriage. And he says he thought I was paying too much attention to our son instead of him, even though he now recognizes that my interactions with my son were completely normal and not over the top at all, and the date night we had once a week was about as good as it gets when you have a 4-year-old and a busy job. Those just don't seem like "issues" to me. They seem like someone who is immature and not really adjusting to life.

 

I also worry that he might just be one of those people who another poster said just want more. He had a great life and a great job and a great marriage, but he wanted even more than what he had and when this woman flirted with him, he had fun flirting back and it escalated and he liked the physical excitement and thought he could get away with more. I'm worried there might not be any deeper issues for even him to confront, other than that he can be selfish and immature when it comes to sexual attraction when he is bored at work and that he is capable of not thinking of what it would mean to his life.

 

But I appreciate everything you're saying about time changing perspectives, and that's why I want to wait this out. I'm not in any hurry to date again -- I certainly wouldn't want anyone to have to put up with me the way I am right now! -- and we signed a post-nuptual agreement so I protected my finances. So I have as much time as I'm willing to put into this. He claims he'll wait as long as it takes, though I have my doubts about that. I also think his plan is to just wait and see if my views change. I'm not seeing any signs he's doing a whole lot to change himself. He's looking for a new job now, and he's trying to eat healthy. But aside from going to his IC, I don't get the sense that he's really soul searching. He keeps saying things like "I just wasn't myself" or "it was like being in a movie, but it was all inconsistent with who I really am."

[beenburned]

I'm a long ago BW that did reconcile.(due to H changing and being remorseful) Our marriage was fine back then, and we were happy and were very sexually active.

 

There are many people whose spouses had affairs/flings with co-workers. PEER pressure is alive and well in corporate America! If many of his work friends cheated and bragged, he may have felt he was missing out on some fun. And many of the women they work with are as bad as the men.

 

Almost all of H's former co-workers were divorced by their wives(they were serial cheaters), and some got fired from their jobs for poor performance.

Most of them have now been married 3 or 4 times. And some of them confess to my H that they will always love their first wife and wish they had not been so stupid in their youth.

[Snowflower]

He does want to stay married -- more than anything. We had a great marriage, and he knows it. It's part of the mystery of all this. We weren't having any problems and never had. We were best friends and loved being with each other. His cheating was something he did in his office and only there -- he refused to take the OW out to dinner, for example. (It takes a special kind of OW to be willing to make out in an office and have no contact outside of it, but I think she was okay with it because she was cheating on her long-term boyfriend, so that way neither she nor my WH thought they would get caught. But I also think they were going to end soon when I caught him because neither of them felt the way they were doing it was "satisfactory." That was what his note said.) He didn't even work late to be with her. That's why it was a miracle I even caught him -- there were no signs at all until I had this dream that I couldn't shake. It's also why I don't think transparency would ever help me. They did this basically entirely with in person meetings at work, and only a couple text messages one weekend. I never saw this coming and there were no signs or tracks. And I work in the same company, so the fact I didn't see it happening is what makes me realize I'll never catch this again if he's working somewhere else. (Which he'll now have to do.)

 

That has to be so frustrating (maddening?) for you for your H to do this and he can't even say why. Not that there is ever an excuse/reason/explanation to have an affair but for many BS, including me, it was part of the moving forward process to hear my WS say, "I had an affair because of xyz."

 

At least then you know what you're dealing with. Whether trust could ever be restored or whether this would ever happen again.

 

BTW, a lot of workplace affairs happen exactly as you describe where there is little out-of-office face-to-face interaction. The whole going out to dinner together, weekends away is usually a Hollywood spin on affairs. Your H doesn't seem especially sneaky or clever. I'm surprised that there weren't more texts/emails or whatever during non-working hours because again, that is pretty normal. Affairs need a lot of conversation to keep them going...more so than a normal relationship.

 

BTW, I think it is very cool that you had a dream that tipped you off to something being wrong. That heightened intuition that you had really served you well.

I also worry that he might just be one of those people who another poster said just want more. He had a great life and a great job and a great marriage, but he wanted even more than what he had and when this woman flirted with him, he had fun flirting back and it escalated and he liked the physical excitement and thought he could get away with more. I'm worried there might not be any deeper issues for even him to confront, other than that he can be selfish and immature when it comes to sexual attraction when he is bored at work and that he is capable of not thinking of what it would mean to his life.

 

But I appreciate everything you're saying about time changing perspectives, and that's why I want to wait this out. I'm not in any hurry to date again -- I certainly wouldn't want anyone to have to put up with me the way I am right now! -- and we signed a post-nuptual agreement so I protected my finances. So I have as much time as I'm willing to put into this. He claims he'll wait as long as it takes, though I have my doubts about that. I also think his plan is to just wait and see if my views change. I'm not seeing any signs he's doing a whole lot to change himself. He's looking for a new job now, and he's trying to eat healthy. But aside from going to his IC, I don't get the sense that he's really soul searching. He keeps saying things like "I just wasn't myself" or "it was like being in a movie, but it was all inconsistent with who I really am."

 

Okay, I want you to think about your H for a little while. Think back to the person he was before the affair. Think about the man you loved and knew all those years.

 

Did he ever have any tendencies to be impulsive, selfish, self-serving, etc. even in minor ways before? You don't have to answer this here but please think about it.

 

My H was one of those people who I thought would never have an affair either. He was always one of those "do what you say you will do" type of people. In fact, most of the time he would carry that to the extreme! However, looking back I see that he did have a few traits that made it easier for him to have an affair, including the "do what you say you will do" trait, which ironically made him feel that he couldn't back out on the OW.

 

Anyway, my point is that someone who has an affair doesn't usually just do something so out of character. IMHO, those character traits are usually there, even in minor, seemingly harmless ways previous to the affair.

 

So think about your H and who he was before the affair. My opinion is that there were some latent signs there before.

 

Sure, people can do out-of-character things. But they usually are horrified by their actions afterward (especially if it is something serious like an affair) and do everything in their power to prevent a recurrence. From what you write, your H doesn't seem to be doing this?

 

Just food for thought!

Edited October 18, 2011 by Snowflower
Grammar!

[woinlove]

He does want to stay married -- more than anything. We had a great marriage, and he knows it. It's part of the mystery of all this. We weren't having any problems and never had. We were best friends and loved being with each other. His cheating was something he did in his office and only there -- he refused to take the OW out to dinner, for example. (It takes a special kind of OW to be willing to make out in an office and have no contact outside of it, but I think she was okay with it because she was cheating on her long-term boyfriend, so that way neither she nor my WH thought they would get caught. But I also think they were going to end soon when I caught him because neither of them felt the way they were doing it was "satisfactory." That was what his note said.) He didn't even work late to be with her. That's why it was a miracle I even caught him -- there were no signs at all until I had this dream that I couldn't shake. It's also why I don't think transparency would ever help me. They did this basically entirely with in person meetings at work, and only a couple text messages one weekend. I never saw this coming and there were no signs or tracks. And I work in the same company, so the fact I didn't see it happening is what makes me realize I'll never catch this again if he's working somewhere else. (Which he'll now have to do.)

 

I think my H must have some issues, but so far he's come up with nothing after 4 months of IC other than that he thinks he was bored at work and got lazy about everything in his life, including his marriage. And he says he thought I was paying too much attention to our son instead of him, even though he now recognizes that my interactions with my son were completely normal and not over the top at all, and the date night we had once a week was about as good as it gets when you have a 4-year-old and a busy job. Those just don't seem like "issues" to me. They seem like someone who is immature and not really adjusting to life.

 

I also worry that he might just be one of those people who another poster said just want more. He had a great life and a great job and a great marriage, but he wanted even more than what he had and when this woman flirted with him, he had fun flirting back and it escalated and he liked the physical excitement and thought he could get away with more. I'm worried there might not be any deeper issues for even him to confront, other than that he can be selfish and immature when it comes to sexual attraction when he is bored at work and that he is capable of not thinking of what it would mean to his life.

 

But I appreciate everything you're saying about time changing perspectives, and that's why I want to wait this out. I'm not in any hurry to date again -- I certainly wouldn't want anyone to have to put up with me the way I am right now! -- and we signed a post-nuptual agreement so I protected my finances. So I have as much time as I'm willing to put into this. He claims he'll wait as long as it takes, though I have my doubts about that. I also think his plan is to just wait and see if my views change. I'm not seeing any signs he's doing a whole lot to change himself. He's looking for a new job now, and he's trying to eat healthy. But aside from going to his IC, I don't get the sense that he's really soul searching. He keeps saying things like "I just wasn't myself" or "it was like being in a movie, but it was all inconsistent with who I really am."

 

It really makes no sense why someone would behave like that. Maybe it is just some sense of selfishness and entitlement that is there, but doesn't crop up often. It reminds me of another story I heard about, great marriage and the WH managed to fit in an affair confined to one lunch hour a week with almost no communication outside that time, and still danced, dined, dates nights, lots of sex, fun, etc with his BW and lots of family time with their children, just as he always had. He died suddenly and I don't think she ever figured it out - just had to decide to move on and decide he was more selfish than she had thought from all their shared years together.

 

I think it is up to your H to figure out why and to convince you that he has changed (if he does manage to change - usually that isn't so easy) and it won't happen again. Maybe he won't be able to do that, maybe it is not even possible, but I think that is his job if he wants to save his M. Sorry you are going through this.

[PinkInTheLimo]

I'm worried there might not be any deeper issues for even him to confront, other than that he can be selfish and immature when it comes to sexual attraction when he is bored at work and that he is capable of not thinking of what it would mean to his life.

 

I honestly think that this is the core of the problem. That he is basically a shallow person.

You are someone with depth and principles and he is not.

 

Have there never been other situations in which you had the feeling that his moral compass did not point in the same direction as yours or that he simply did not have one? Does he come across as someone who has scruples?

 

My ex lied a lot to me and I have searched a long time for reasons because from my perspective there had to be a deeper reason and an explanation (you see, if I would lie there would have to be a very serious reason which makes me act different than normal). But my end conclusion was that there was no real reason except maybe for needing a thril and a secret. Very immature.

 

I can tell you this: your H is not crying because he loves you or his son. He cries because he is upset that he has to come out of this comfort zone. He wants to get back in as soon as possible. But why would you let that happen if you don't feel any fundamental changes have been made? He's the child who cries because he is punished for bad behaviour.

 

You should watch a documentary on children being abused in a boarding school, with the title "Chosen". It's a totally heartwrenching documentary, especially because of the now adult victims testifying with a lot of dignity.

Now as such I have not gone through such a situation yet I saw resemblances with my lying ex. The way he seduced me and dragged me into a situation where I accepted things which I did not want to accept...

 

One of the victims said at the end of the documentary that he thought the abusers did not realise the damage they had done. I think the same is valid for liars and cheaters like your H. They just don't get it. You say that it is a dealbreaker and they just brush it aside.

 

BTW, are you sure this is his only affair? From what you tell me, your H must have done this before.

[aloneinnyc]

 

 

Okay, I want you to think about your H for a little while. Think back to the person he was before the affair. Think about the man you loved and knew all those years.

 

Did he ever have any tendencies to be impulsive, selfish, self-serving, etc. even in minor ways before? You don't have to answer this here but please think about it.

 

My H was one of those people who I thought would never have an affair either. He was always one of those "do what you say you will do" type of people. In fact, most of the time he would carry that to the extreme! However, looking back I see that he did have a few traits that made it easier for him to have an affair, including the "do what you say you will do" trait, which ironically made him feel that he couldn't back out on the OW.

 

Anyway, my point is that someone who has an affair doesn't usually just do something so out of character. IMHO, those character traits are usually there, even in minor, seemingly harmless ways previous to the affair.

 

So think about your H and who he was before the affair. My opinion is that there were some latent signs there before.

 

Sure, people can do out-of-character things. But they usually are horrified by their actions afterward (especially if it is something serious like an affair) and do everything in their power to prevent a recurrence. From what you write, your H doesn't seem to be doing this?

 

Just food for thought!

 

This is really helpful to me. I thought a lot about this, and although this was very out of character for my H -- he was a completely responsible person who didn't like risk -- there are some things that came to me. He has always been extremely confident, bordering on arrogant. So, I think part of this is that he just assumed he would never get caught because he could control any situation. Frankly, I think he probably also assumed he could flirt with this woman and control the physical, too, because he was overly confident in himself as well.

 

And he's always been somewhat immature and has liked being challenged and competitive. He started working for my company 3 years ago, and I think this job just doesn't challenge him, and it's been hard on his ego. He says in our MC sessions that he basically felt semi-retired. He got lazy around the house, too. He let me do more things for our son, and although he still did more than many husbands (he always did the dishes), he never offered to take things off my plate even when I was swamped at work.

 

When this woman came to work for him -- she started as an intern, he then hired her full-time -- she was the only other employee, so they were alone together a lot. I think that filled the boredom void and one thing let to another.

 

Now that he's lost the job, he is admitting he didn't like it as much as he wanted to like it. He took it because the hours were great for seeing my son, and he thought he'd like being his own boss. (He runs his section of the company) But he ended up not pushing himself at all, and he said he missed the excitement he had in his other jobs. (He was a trial lawyer.)

 

This all seems legit to me, but it is just so inadequate of an explanation. Basically, it boils down to being dissatisfied with his career choice, but instead of tackling that directly -- which would have been easy for him -- he decided to tinker with his marriage instead. And then he never admitted anything to me. Instead, he lied repeatedly, so I saw that he's much more cowardly than I had thought.

 

He was a moral guy before all this. I don't think he had the deeper sense of morality that I have. (I pray everyday and could never live with myself if I did any of this. I feel guilty when I have a bad thought!) But he was basically decent -- treated me well and treated others well. But as I look back, he didn't do much self sacrificing in his life, and I think he had a bit of a sense of entitlement to things. I, for example, always struggle taking presents or things from other people. He never thought twice about the fact that I earned more than him and he contributed less to our joint pool of income. Nor did it ever occur to him that he should do a little more around the house when things got busy for me. I certainly wouldn't have ended our M for things like that -- I was very happy -- but as I think about the kind of person he is, I do realize there's self absorption there and immaturity and arrogance that could combine to do this. And he had some insecurities about his sexual abilities -- he was never able to last very long -- so I think he was also doubting that because even though I never said no, when I was tired, he sensed I wasn't as enthusiastic. (It's hard to be enthusiastic when you're working 16 hour days and taking care of a 4-year-old, especially when the sex itself lasted about 5 minutes with no real foreplay or any effort on his part to be romantic at any point until when he felt like he wanted it.)

[Snowflower]

Just a thought about feeling entitled vs. being self-sacrificing (which you say your H is not)...perhaps he did feel entitled, who knows.

 

However, people who self-sacrifice also tend to be susceptible to affairs. It's like they feel that they have always been the good, steady spouse for all those years and they were taken for granted. Someone (the AP) comes along and really notices them and bam, there is the affair.

 

So, feeling entitled may lead to an affair but so can too much self-sacrifice. I have known of people who are at either extreme and have had affairs. Add in the whole career issue and there you go.

 

Perhaps your H will now get his career back on track since he lost his job. A blessing in disguise for him, perhaps. I know you probably don't want to hear that! It's important for him to have a career since he still needs to provide for your son you have together...no matter what happens to your marriage.

 

I know, it seems like a faithful spouse cannot win sometimes!

[aloneinnyc]

I know, it seems like a faithful spouse cannot win sometimes!

 

I hear that! I hate to get cynical, but reading these boards, I feel like there are just a lot of people who cheat for lots of insignificant reasons. And there's not much a faithful spouse can do to prevent it. There really wasn't anything I could have done to stop this, other than be a mindreader and sense the job wasn't great (even though he told me it was) or turn into another person because he was clearly craving excitement and variety. If he couldn't get it in terms of the substance of his work, he decided to get it sexually.

 

I believe him that this was the only time he cheated, and I even believe it didn't get beyond heavy making out with clothes on. And yet, that's enough for me to have lost all trust in him and most of the respect I had. It's like a veil has been lifted, and now I see all these faults I overlooked or ignored before because the trust and bond we had was all I really wanted. Now that it's gone, I'm just questioning what's left and whether it would be enough for me to go on with him. As I said, right now, the answer is clearly no. But I will keep waiting to see. I just can't help but get angry and sad that he put me in this position of either getting out and probably being alone (I'm 40 with a 5-year-old, not exactly the most marketable woman out there!), or going back to him and feeling like I settled for something I knew I never wanted: a man I don't trust who didn't respect me.

[2sunny]

He was a moral guy before all this.

 

well now he's not the man you thought he could be...

 

I don't think he had the deeper sense of morality that I have.

 

morality has nothing to do with it - his actions tell you the type of man he is.

 

 

(I pray everyday and could never live with myself if I did any of this. I feel guilty when I have a bad thought!)

 

this is you

 

 

But he was basically decent -- treated me well and treated others well.

 

but you are speaking of the past - what has happened changes everything... and HIS ACTIONS now are what changed everything - it's HIS - and it's HIS to repair.

 

 

But as I look back, he didn't do much self sacrificing in his life, and I think he had a bit of a sense of entitlement to things.

 

his sense of entitlement and thinking of himself is what will lead to cheating... and YOU can't fix THAT for HIM.

 

I, for example, always struggle taking presents or things from other people. He never thought twice about the fact that I earned more than him and he contributed less to our joint pool of income. Nor did it ever occur to him that he should do a little more around the house when things got busy for me. I certainly wouldn't have ended our M for things like that -- I was very happy -

 

good for you! nice to see!

 

 

- but as I think about the kind of person he is, I do realize there's self absorption there and immaturity and arrogance that could combine to do this. And he had some insecurities about his sexual abilities -- he was never able to last very long -- so I think he was also doubting that because even though I never said no, when I was tired, he sensed I wasn't as enthusiastic.

 

and why is a man who thinks this much of himself and not of you attractive to be with?

 

 

(It's hard to be enthusiastic when you're working 16 hour days and taking care of a 4-year-old, especially when the sex itself lasted about 5 minutes with no real foreplay or any effort on his part to be romantic at any point until when he felt like he wanted it.)

 

he's selfish and self centered. why is this a good thing for YOU?

[2sunny]

going back to him and feeling like I settled for something I knew I never wanted: a man I don't trust who didn't respect me.

 

that's crazy! never -EVER - settle!

 

no trust and no respect? NO WAY!

 

you HANDED him a job - when he didn't have work... and he slapped you in the face! why would you offer him more of the same... ONLY TO GET MORE OF WHAT HE'S CAPABLE OF GIVING YOU? OR NOT GIVING YOU?

 

it doesn't even appear that he offers you much of anything except dragging you down - in MANY forms of negative energy!

 

LET HIM MAKE THE EFFORT! he should be capable of contributing to the M - by way of being a loving husband, father - helping with more than his fair share of household chores - being a friend, companion and confidant - and by BEING FAITHFUL!!!!

 

if he's not - then there is NO reason to even consider this a M - or any form of partnership!

[aloneinnyc]

Thanks, 2Sunny, for the reality check. Sometimes I start to feel guilty that I can't get beyond what he did to think about the good times we had before all this. But you're helping me to see that this in many ways wipes those away. They are part of his actions to me, and nothing in my life has hurt me worse.

[Snowflower]

Thanks, 2Sunny, for the reality check. Sometimes I start to feel guilty that I can't get beyond what he did to think about the good times we had before all this. But you're helping me to see that this in many ways wipes those away. They are part of his actions to me, and nothing in my life has hurt me worse.

 

Just to be clear, I wasn't encouraging you to "remember the good times" as you worked through what your H did.

 

Most betrayed spouses (me included) believed that our unfaithful spouses would have never had it in them to cheat. After all, who would marry someone they knew was going to cheat someday. After the infidelity, however, many BS wonder why they didn't see it coming. I know I did this.

 

My point to having you think back to who your H was before the A was to see if you could identify any traits/weaknesses/characteristics that ultimately led to infidelity. And it seems you did some introspecting about your H. It was really just food for thought for you as worked through this.

 

Sometimes, it helps the BS to see what it was in their spouse that led them to cheat. It helps the BS determine if a repeat infidelity is likely or if trust can ever be restored.

 

Again, IMHO a total out of character moment, such as cheating, will lead that person to introspect and work hard to figure out why they did what they did. They will be just as horrified at what they did as their BS and will do whatever work is necessary on themselves to regain integrity.

[2sunny]

you think it's the first time - but i'd bet if he took a lie detector test - you'd find out it was mainly the first time that you noticed.

 

men with an ego like this and the sense of entitlement tend to DO this as a pattern - but they just get surprised that they got caught.

 

my exH wasn't sorry he did it - he was only sorry he got caught - and sad i wouldn't just go back to him... he was shocked when he learned that i believed i deserved more than what he offered. yep, we had the huge house, great family and friends, great sex and the perfect looking life and M - but he still cheated... he didn't know how to be happy... he always thought he deserved better/more.

 

life is too short to live in the lies... i deserve more than the lies he was offering me.

[aloneinnyc]

Just to be clear, I wasn't encouraging you to "remember the good times" as you worked through what your H did.

 

 

I completely understand what you are saying. My comments weren't about your posts -- you have been really helpful to me, and I think you were right that I needed to think about what traits he had that led up to this.

 

I was referring to the good times because I'm having an internal struggle to see a path going forward. My problem is that I look at him and it's as if the OW is in his arms. I can't see anything else but a cheater. I can't think back to the good times we used to have to try to envision any in the future because what he did just overrides everything in my mind. I just still have that overriding sense that this is a dealbreaker and we won't get beyond it because my feelings are so strong. I won't decide anything now -- I don't want to spend the rest of my life wondering if I made the wrong choice because I didn't give it enough thought. (It took me four year to decide to marry him in the first place.) But I can't help thinking about the decision everyday, and for four months, my heart keeps telling me the same thing: it's been broken by this man and I don't want to give him another chance to do it again.

[2sunny]

I completely understand what you are saying. My comments weren't about your posts -- you have been really helpful to me, and I think you were right that I needed to think about what traits he had that led up to this.

 

I was referring to the good times because I'm having an internal struggle to see a path going forward. My problem is that I look at him and it's as if the OW is in his arms. I can't see anything else but a cheater. I can't think back to the good times we used to have to try to envision any in the future because what he did just overrides everything in my mind. I just still have that overriding sense that this is a dealbreaker and we won't get beyond it because my feelings are so strong. I won't decide anything now -- I don't want to spend the rest of my life wondering if I made the wrong choice because I didn't give it enough thought. (It took me four year to decide to marry him in the first place.) But I can't help thinking about the decision everyday, and for four months, my heart keeps telling me the same thing: it's been broken by this man and I don't want to give him another chance to do it again.

 

sounds like HE hasn't found the reason why he made the decision to cheat. to lie. to betray you.

 

sounds like he hasn't done the work necessary to repair the damage HE caused to the M and to you.

 

sounds like you are feeling the pain of HIS cheating - it's his... and until HE does the work necessary to heal the relationship - the negativity will grow and ruin what good used to be there.

 

you can't make him want to fix it - if he's not honest and willing to look at himself and the way he participated - then you have nothing to work with.

 

what has he been doing since you found out? an apology isn't enough - what has he learned about himself - what honesty has he offered you - to restore your peace of mind that he stole from you and stomped on?

 

has he been transparent? has he answered any and all questions you have? has he stopped ANY communication with his OW? has he done tons of counseling? has he offered you his COMPLETE truth, including details and what he was missing from your relationship that helped him justify going outside the M instead of being honest at the time that he needed more than what he was getting?

 

what has HE offered to help save the M and participate in the healing of the M?

[nyrias2]

I hear that! I hate to get cynical, but reading these boards, I feel like there are just a lot of people who cheat for lots of insignificant reasons. And there's not much a faithful spouse can do to prevent it. There really wasn't anything I could have done to stop this, other than be a mindreader and sense the job wasn't great (even though he told me it was) or turn into another person because he was clearly craving excitement and variety. If he couldn't get it in terms of the substance of his work, he decided to get it sexually.

 

I believe him that this was the only time he cheated, and I even believe it didn't get beyond heavy making out with clothes on. And yet, that's enough for me to have lost all trust in him and most of the respect I had. It's like a veil has been lifted, and now I see all these faults I overlooked or ignored before because the trust and bond we had was all I really wanted. Now that it's gone, I'm just questioning what's left and whether it would be enough for me to go on with him. As I said, right now, the answer is clearly no. But I will keep waiting to see. I just can't help but get angry and sad that he put me in this position of either getting out and probably being alone (I'm 40 with a 5-year-old, not exactly the most marketable woman out there!), or going back to him and feeling like I settled for something I knew I never wanted: a man I don't trust who didn't respect me.

 

I don't think you need to worry about whether you are marketable or not.

 

Statistics show that most men cheat ANYWAY. 70% wants to .. at least even if some are too scared to try.

 

If you don't want to have a high chance to be involved with a cheater, do not get involved.

[aloneinnyc]

what has he been doing since you found out? an apology isn't enough - what has he learned about himself - what honesty has he offered you - to restore your peace of mind that he stole from you and stomped on?

 

has he been transparent? has he answered any and all questions you have? has he stopped ANY communication with his OW? has he done tons of counseling? has he offered you his COMPLETE truth, including details and what he was missing from your relationship that helped him justify going outside the M instead of being honest at the time that he needed more than what he was getting?

 

what has HE offered to help save the M and participate in the healing of the M?

 

He gave me all the details -- at least I think so. He gave me his email passwords, but he had already deleted the most incriminating ones by the time I got them, so I told him I didn't want access anymore because it was a charade once he knew I had them. He is going to IC twice a week, but he's spent most of the time dealing with what he calls the "crisis" and not so much getting to the root cause of it all. (The crisis includes losing his job and looking for an apartment.) I'm pretty sure he has no contact with the OW because he could get sued given that she is pursuing a lawsuit against the company right now. I also dont think they had an emotional connection -- this was almost entirely a PA, and even that didn't get that far before I caught him. He's sincerely remorseful.

 

I think my stumbling block is that I'm not sure he's going deep enough into the causes -- or, the alternative is that the causes don't go very deep. The only thing he identified about our marriage that he said was part of the problem was the fact that, since our son was born, he missed being the one to get all my affection. (Even though I still gave him affection, between 5-8pm, I was mainly focused on my son because I work all day and that's when I saw him. But after that, my attention was on my husband, and we did a date night once a week. Realistically, there was just no more time to give him.) What he is really focused on now as the "cause" or "trigger" is that he was bored and unchallenged at work, so he looked for something exciting in a life that he said was too routine.

 

It's such a frustrating answer because he didn't try to do a single thing to make his life more exciting, or his job (and he could have), before resorting to cheating. He says it was because he was not in touch with any of this. But my view is that after he kissed her the first time (in a bar), that should have been the wake-up call to think about what was going on. Instead, he said his reaction was just to tell her that would never happen again and they didn't talk about it for about a month. But then they started talking about it again, and then the talking led to physical contact again -- this time completely sober in an office.

 

I just don't see myself ever looking at him the same way again. He repulses me right now. I see him, and I see a pathetic, ungrateful, selfish, middle-aged man who is really like a spoiled child. When I say I struggle to remember the good times, I mean when I look at him, I can't remember what it was like to look into his eyes and be happy he was mine. I guess that's because he was never mine -- and now I don't seem to want him.

[2sunny]

So it wasn't just in the office - he made the time and effort to also meet her in a bar... I think there's more that he hasn't told you.

[aloneinnyc]

So it wasn't just in the office - he made the time and effort to also meet her in a bar... I think there's more that he hasn't told you.

 

He was at the bar with someone else we work with -- I've confirmed that -- and she showed up with a friend of hers. He swears it wasn't pre-arranged -- but I'll never know. That was the first time he kissed her, and they never met outside the office again. (That I've also been able to confirm because she's suing our company because they dismissed her, and she agrees with him that their physical contacts were inside the office on three occasions.)

[Snowflower]

He gave me all the details -- at least I think so. He gave me his email passwords, but he had already deleted the most incriminating ones by the time I got them, so I told him I didn't want access anymore because it was a charade once he knew I had them. He is going to IC twice a week, but he's spent most of the time dealing with what he calls the "crisis" and not so much getting to the root cause of it all. (The crisis includes losing his job and looking for an apartment.) I'm pretty sure he has no contact with the OW because he could get sued given that she is pursuing a lawsuit against the company right now. I also dont think they had an emotional connection -- this was almost entirely a PA, and even that didn't get that far before I caught him. He's sincerely remorseful.

 

I think my stumbling block is that I'm not sure he's going deep enough into the causes -- or, the alternative is that the causes don't go very deep. The only thing he identified about our marriage that he said was part of the problem was the fact that, since our son was born, he missed being the one to get all my affection. (Even though I still gave him affection, between 5-8pm, I was mainly focused on my son because I work all day and that's when I saw him. But after that, my attention was on my husband, and we did a date night once a week. Realistically, there was just no more time to give him.) What he is really focused on now as the "cause" or "trigger" is that he was bored and unchallenged at work, so he looked for something exciting in a life that he said was too routine.

 

It's such a frustrating answer because he didn't try to do a single thing to make his life more exciting, or his job (and he could have), before resorting to cheating. He says it was because he was not in touch with any of this. But my view is that after he kissed her the first time (in a bar), that should have been the wake-up call to think about what was going on. Instead, he said his reaction was just to tell her that would never happen again and they didn't talk about it for about a month. But then they started talking about it again, and then the talking led to physical contact again -- this time completely sober in an office.

 

I just don't see myself ever looking at him the same way again. He repulses me right now. I see him, and I see a pathetic, ungrateful, selfish, middle-aged man who is really like a spoiled child. When I say I struggle to remember the good times, I mean when I look at him, I can't remember what it was like to look into his eyes and be happy he was mine. I guess that's because he was never mine -- and now I don't seem to want him.

 

What a mess with the lawsuit she has filed with the company! He is darned lucky he wasn't named personally in the lawsuit since his actions with her (and hers back) was why she was fired. Yuck, yuck, yuck.

 

Is the affair widely-known within your company? I sincerely hope not. I can't even imagine how difficult that is for you.

 

As for the bolded, that is completely understandable for you to feel that way. ((((hugs))))

[PinkInTheLimo]

I think my stumbling block is that I'm not sure he's going deep enough into the causes -- or, the alternative is that the causes don't go very deep. The only thing he identified about our marriage that he said was part of the problem was the fact that, since our son was born, he missed being the one to get all my affection. (Even though I still gave him affection, between 5-8pm, I was mainly focused on my son because I work all day and that's when I saw him. But after that, my attention was on my husband, and we did a date night once a week. Realistically, there was just no more time to give him.) What he is really focused on now as the "cause" or "trigger" is that he was bored and unchallenged at work, so he looked for something exciting in a life that he said was too routine.

 

It's such a frustrating answer because he didn't try to do a single thing to make his life more exciting, or his job (and he could have), before resorting to cheating. He says it was because he was not in touch with any of this. But my view is that after he kissed her the first time (in a bar), that should have been the wake-up call to think about what was going on. Instead, he said his reaction was just to tell her that would never happen again and they didn't talk about it for about a month. But then they started talking about it again, and then the talking led to physical contact again -- this time completely sober in an office.

 

I just don't see myself ever looking at him the same way again. He repulses me right now. I see him, and I see a pathetic, ungrateful, selfish, middle-aged man who is really like a spoiled child. When I say I struggle to remember the good times, I mean when I look at him, I can't remember what it was like to look into his eyes and be happy he was mine. I guess that's because he was never mine -- and now I don't seem to want him.

 

He is being very easy on himself. Being frustrated in his job is not a reason for an affair. As a matter of fact, whenever my professional life is not going well, I become less outgoing because I don't feel accomplished enough in the professional domain and that has an impact on my self-esteem). So in such a situation I'd rather withdraw in order to focus on solving the problem. It might make me more distant towards my partner but definitely not push me in the arms of someone else! For the record, I am a woman.

 

My lying ex also had many excuses why he lied and cheated. "I was not feeling well"... how many times I have heard that! I don't buy it. I don't see why not feeling well pushes one to do things which are so hurtful to one's partner and totally jeopardize the relationship.

 

I also find the explanation about no longer being the center of your attention after having a baby shallow. Every realistic person knows that a small child causes some changes in a relationship. From what you tell me, you have done an effort to also be a wife and not only a mother.

 

My diagnosis is simple: your H and other cheaters and liars are thrill seekers. They are children who have never learnt to deal with frustration and never learnt to postpone gratification. They can't deal with boredom, with routine. They need thrills. Maybe they don't plan it but they are impulsive and can't control themselves. One is never safe with a man like that, at least not when one wants a faithful partner.

 

These are the men who might stay married for 50 years to the same woman, have as such a great marriage but will always need to have a secret garden. There will be years of being faithful but also episodes of cheating. The wife might never find out (for example if she is a stay at home woman who sees his professional life as another compartment of his life) or she might know it but accept it. Think Hillary...

They need the stability of a nice home and a good wife but they also need the thrill.

 

Only if the man in question is prepared to take a long hard look at himself can that be changed and it would need several years of therapy. Most of these men are not prepared to do that. If you will not take him back, I am sure he will soon have another woman he will want to marry. And then he will also cheat on her.

 

I do not think it was his first time. He only did not manage to hide it this time.

[Snowflower]

This AP seems to have a good handle on the reality of her situation and is not eager to sweep this all under the rug.

 

In fact, it seems doubtful she will reconcile with her H, but she might.

 

Why does she need to be kicked when she is down with the comments like there is probably more that you don't know, or your H has probably cheated before-this is not his first time.

 

Honestly, no one here knows that. Let's not guess and make her feel worse.

[reboot]

Statistics show that most men cheat ANYWAY. 70% wants to .. at least even if some are too scared to try.

 

70% of statistics are made up on the spot. In other words, link to the study or it isn't true.

 

Besides, the studies I've seen show that modern women have more than caught up with their male counterparts as far as cheating goes.

[nyrias2]

70% of statistics are made up on the spot. In other words, link to the study or it isn't true.

 

Besides, the studies I've seen show that modern women have more than caught up with their male counterparts as far as cheating goes.

 

http://www.infidelityfacts.com/infidelity-statistics.html

 

you can contact them for their actual methodologies.