woinlove Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 The BS is usually the last to know about the A. He/she doesn't want to believe that his/her world will change dramatically within few minutes. I don't think this addresses jthorne's post because it still sounds like the perspective of someone involved in an A, rather than a spouse who is trustworthy themselves. Marriage typically involves a lot of trust. One often has established good trust even before getting married and this trust can deepen considerably during married life. My years with my H would be considerably poorer if I didn't trust him. While I would be devastated if he broke that trust, I would never give up all the trusting years we have shared for one based on monitoring and doubting his words. I can imagine BS looking back and wishing they had been suspicious and monitoring their WS earlier - but I doubt anyone wishes they had spent their entire M in that mode. The trick is you would like to become suspicious just when there is reason to become suspicious, but, in most cases, the WS is working hard to hide any suspicious activity.
Owl Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Right. Yianks posts seems to imply that the BS really knows, but doesn't want to face it. Based on what I've seen, I'd have to disagree. Most know something is wrong in the M and would very much like to fix it, except the WS is busy hiding his tracks and telling the BS something other than the truth. Which brings this all back to the original post... Anyone who knows "the truth" is a potential candidate to help the BS "fill in the gaps" and learn "the truth" of what's been going on. Personally, I don't even truly care what the "motives" is...I believe that most would feel thathaving that critical information is the most critical point, and gives them the chance to make informed decisions about their future. The OW/OM doesn't "owe" the truth to the BS...I grant that. Some do end up choosing to tell...some don't. The prime person who "owes" the truth to the BS is the least likely person to ever rat themselves out. Just think about it...they nearly always spend months/years convincing themselves of all the "reasons" they "shouldn't" tell. The reality is...it'll force them to face the true consequences of their selfish choices and actions. Friends/family who know are also prime candidates to tell...and are often the ones who end up doing so, if the BS doesn't discover the situation themselves.
mzdolphin Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 I agree wholeheartedly with this FS, I and H had 23 years together when he had an A. The OW had told H that she was going to tell me, he was petrified she would and that helped to prolong the A. This from them both, the OW and I spoke after D Day and to be fair to her, she answered all I asked and I to her. I felt sorry for her, she saw the A as one thing when it was in fact something else entirely. It was only afterwards when she started to get angry at me that I disliked her. I wish she had told me, but I wish H had told me more. I think it is the WS place to inform the BS, I don't understand those OW/OM who tell after D Day, it seems more like revenge than anything, for those that tell during the A, then I would suspect that forcing the WS hand is the motive, rather than 'she deserves to know'. I am grateful that the OW was honest with me, she could have spun me a whole lot of lies, but she didn't. Hmmmm. I see all the blame being put on OW/OM. If they tell after DDAY, they seek revenge. If tell during affair, ulterior motives . Not one harsh word for the cheating spouse, even making excuses for him lying after being confronted. She forced him to keep having the affair because he was afraid she would tell. He was confronted and continued to lie. Won't say head is in the sand, but maybe some sand around the ears?
awkward Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 If all of a sudden my husband started acting weird, the last thing I would think would be that he is cheating. I would think it was work, the new baby, stress, etc (whatever he said was bothering him) because even after reading here for years and knowing that some people have no problem with cheating, I would still find it hard to believe that MY husband would do that to me. He hasn't ever given me a reason not to trust him; therefore, I trust him.
seren Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Hmmmm. I see all the blame being put on OW/OM. If they tell after DDAY, they seek revenge. If tell during affair, ulterior motives . Not one harsh word for the cheating spouse, even making excuses for him lying after being confronted. She forced him to keep having the affair because he was afraid she would tell. He was confronted and continued to lie. Won't say head is in the sand, but maybe some sand around the ears? No head in the sand here, not even a speck in my ears, the OW and I had quite an in depth conversation or two after D Day and, as I said, she was very honest and said that it was her intention that he leave, knew he wouldn't leave unless I threw him out. I have always put the blame onto my H for the A, although I do see the OW as an enabler. No one forced H to have an A, and he had plenty of harsh words believe me. BS are often said to use manipulation to make a WS stay in a marriage after D Day, it can also be that many OW/OM use manipulation for the A to continue. I, of course think it is the place of the WS to tell the BS about the A, but the 'I think she needs to know that her (BS) husband has been cheating' after the A has ended seems to me like putting the cart before the horse, if the BS knowing was so important or if the act of the A was seen as so bad for the BS, then why do it? I know, hindsight can be a factor, but to think that revenge couldn't be a reason in some instances is rather naive. Equally I am sure that for some telling can be part of the healing process, those who say to the WS that they will tell the BS if he doesn't are, IMHO, trying to move the A on, again I understand that, but still think that the onus should be on the MM. it is one thing to tell the BS, posting letters, copies of emails, pictures (if there are any) and the graphic detail that some go into is unecessary and while not all do this, many do. It is enough to say that an A has taken place, but many go far and beyond this. Not my situation, but the situation of many I know. For my situation, I had all the answers after H told me about the A and my situation was more the what if I was to tell her type scenario than any other. No excuses from me for my H's part in the A, I have never blamed the OW nor do I ever do so, that would be burying my head in the sand up over my a***
carrie999 Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Carrie I love this post. Many behaviors are indicative of others. It's almost just too simple. My exSIL confided after my separation that her brother hid all kinds of money from me throughout the 25 years we were M. Did she ever think to tell me once during the M? No. During his A with her best friend? No. Had I known the indecency of his hiding thousands (if not more) of dollars from his own wife and the mother of his precious children I might have left long before there was an A on his part. Wow, the consequences of that have my head spinning; had I left earlier I may never have had my A. Heck, I could be M to somebody else right now! But nobody thought to tell me about his severe money issues. He was also day-trading at work with his own money as well as other co-workers. He had talked them all into the idea that he knew the stock market so they all pitched in to his investment idea. They all lost out. Nobody shared a word with me. He was eventually let go of his company and never quite recovered from the blow of that, which only caused him to fall deeper into his day-trading (gambling) habit. Had somebody given me a clue... WOW, WF!!! I'm so sorry! That's horrible! I hate that you further proved my point...what an awful situation you had to handle! I hope that at the very least, you're not cleaning up that mess too...
mzdolphin Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 No head in the sand here, not even a speck in my ears, the OW and I had quite an in depth conversation or two after D Day and, as I said, she was very honest and said that it was her intention that he leave, knew he wouldn't leave unless I threw him out. I have always put the blame onto my H for the A, although I do see the OW as an enabler. No one forced H to have an A, and he had plenty of harsh words believe me. BS are often said to use manipulation to make a WS stay in a marriage after D Day, it can also be that many OW/OM use manipulation for the A to continue. I, of course think it is the place of the WS to tell the BS about the A, but the 'I think she needs to know that her (BS) husband has been cheating' after the A has ended seems to me like putting the cart before the horse, if the BS knowing was so important or if the act of the A was seen as so bad for the BS, then why do it? I know, hindsight can be a factor, but to think that revenge couldn't be a reason in some instances is rather naive. Equally I am sure that for some telling can be part of the healing process, those who say to the WS that they will tell the BS if he doesn't are, IMHO, trying to move the A on, again I understand that, but still think that the onus should be on the MM. it is one thing to tell the BS, posting letters, copies of emails, pictures (if there are any) and the graphic detail that some go into is unecessary and while not all do this, many do. It is enough to say that an A has taken place, but many go far and beyond this. Not my situation, but the situation of many I know. For my situation, I had all the answers after H told me about the A and my situation was more the what if I was to tell her type scenario than any other. No excuses from me for my H's part in the A, I have never blamed the OW nor do I ever do so, that would be burying my head in the sand up over my a*** Thanks for the clarification. I was responding to your post, which seemed to lay on the blame on OW. I think 90% of the blame has to go to the WS because they are the ones who made a legal/moral commitment to the spouse. Not the OP. Even if a OP pursues a married person, that would make the OP a person of low character. But the marriage has not been breached unless the married person agrees to breach it.
mzdolphin Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 As for the OW/OM manipulating a married person into staying into an affair, from what I've read on LS and my own experience, it's usually the other way around. Read the boards here. How many affairs end because the married person ends it? Not many. It has to be the OW ending it. And usually they get fed up and the married person finds some other person to lie to and manipulate.
White Flower Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 Most people who have never been touched by infidelity wouldn't think that of their partner. Most know that there is something wrong in the M, but do not know what. Most are gaslighted when they ask. I have a friend in the UK who is getting a D from the man that cheated on her. She didn't have any idea. In fact, she went out of her way to be accomodating to him because he was working such long hours. It wasn't until her sister caught him out with another woman that she found out he was cheating. I just find it really interesting that most of the people here who have posted that the BS should already know are those that are often seen as pro-affair. I think that's no coincidence.Forgive me for coming in late on this conversation, I've been away for a while. Are you suggesting that a BS should already know, as in they know they are going to M a cheater? If so, I think that's almost impossible, unless the MP cheated on their partner BEFORE they got M, as in the case of my MM. She caught him with another girl, and believed him when he said it wasn't a double date at all, he was just dropping the 3 of them off at a bar, lol. LOL. Anyway, as an OW who was once a BW I would not say I was pro affair. I would say I am pro Love, and the love I found happened to be born out of an affair. It sure is complicated, but I weighed the pros and cons and decided that for me, in this place in my life, an A was good for me. I don't believe this to be true for all APs. Some just need to get out of it; so, I don't believe all APs are pro affair. Meet them where they are, then advise them accordingly.
NoIDidn't Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 Anyway, as an OW who was once a BW I would not say I was pro affair. I would say I am pro Love, and the love I found happened to be born out of an affair. It sure is complicated, but I weighed the pros and cons and decided that for me, in this place in my life, an A was good for me. I don't believe this to be true for all APs. Some just need to get out of it; so, I don't believe all APs are pro affair. Meet them where they are, then advise them accordingly. JThorne didn't say that "All APS are pro affair" as you state as if refuting something she said. She said "most of the people here who have posted that the BS should already know are those that are often seen as pro-affair". She was taking a subset of APs, the pro-affair APs, out of the rest as we can readily see which APs are purely pro-affair and which aren't.
Author SoMovinOn Posted October 8, 2011 Author Posted October 8, 2011 She was taking a subset of APs' date=' the pro-affair APs, out of the rest as we can readily see which APs are purely pro-affair and which aren't.[/quote'] I would think the number of people who are "Pro-Affair" would be a minuscule subset, and they would rarely be seen somewhere like LS (someone who is "Pro-Affair" wouldn't likely see an affair as a problem, and wouldn't likely feel the need to discuss it - they would just do it.) I think most often when the term "Pro-Affair" is used here on LS, it is intended to be derogatory, the only purpose being to label another user in some negative manner. I would bet most people involved in an affair would likely not choose an A. I would bet there are an extreme few who willingly set out to have an A.
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