Looks like I need to become "the player type"

[Richard Friedman]

Has anybody besides me noticed how all these posters who keep reiterating that they are so clever and logical, and who tend to make silly comments about the illogical nature of the female brain, also keep throwing around these ridiculous made up statistics?

 

Also, why is it always 80%, all of a sudden? Is using the made-up statistic of 80% somehow more convincingly logical than 75% or 90%? 90% just seemed like too much when the previous wave of posters overused it in their dazzling displays of pure logic, amirite?

 

Typical woman, getting emotional and missing the forest for the trees:laugh:. Of course it's not an actual figure. This isn't a phd thesis. When I'm ina conversation and I know something is true I'll throw out some wierd ballpark figure)90% of guys are wimps, 80% of bankers don't know what they're doing). You can't argue that the crux of what he's saying isn't true. We have a 50% divorce rate with women filing vast majority of these. I doubt(from life experience) that the rest are in some kind of wedded bliss. Pretty reasonable to assume most women are not happy.

[nofool4u]

TheSingleGuy

 

answer, no, do not become a "player" or "bad boy".

 

just be yourself. if women don't like it, so what. let them go for the guys that will rip their hearts out.

 

and later when they get tired of the bull from guys like that because they went for the wrong qualities, they end up going for the nice guys. problem is, you won't be getting a quality woman at that point.

[serial muse]

Typical woman, getting emotional and missing the forest for the trees:laugh:. Of course it's not an actual figure. This isn't a phd thesis. When I'm ina conversation and I know something is true I'll throw out some wierd ballpark figure)90% of guys are wimps, 80% of bankers don't know what they're doing). You can't argue that the crux of what he's saying isn't true. We have a 50% divorce rate with women filing vast majority of these. I doubt(from life experience) that the rest are in some kind of wedded bliss. Pretty reasonable to assume most women are not happy.

 

So what you're saying is that you feel perfectly justified in throwing out weird ballpark figures that you "know" are true because they confirm your personal life experience, and that anyone who protests is getting emotional and not seeing the forest for the trees. And this is your brand of "logic."

 

Good God, we're going to hell in a handbasket.

 

Oh, and you also feel justified in using typical shaming language...while, I'm going to guess "from life experience", also being the sort of person who will avidly and vehemently decry "feminist" shaming language.

 

Hypocrisy at its finest. Nice work!

[Richard Friedman]

So what you're saying is that you feel perfectly justified in throwing out weird ballpark figures that you "know" are true because they confirm your personal life experience, and that anyone who protests is getting emotional and not seeing the forest for the trees. And this is your brand of "logic."

 

Good God, we're going to hell in a handbasket.

 

Oh, and you also feel justified in using typical shaming language...while, I'm going to guess "from life experience", also being the sort of person who will avidly and vehemently decry "feminist" shaming language.

 

Hypocrisy at its finest. Nice work!

 

So are you telling me that every woman who's marriage does not end in divorce is "happy?" When half of marriage end in divorce and assuming the rest arent all happy, it's clear that the majority of women are unhappy. An argument doesn't have to be scholarly to be logical. Would you also tell a guy who says something like most minimum wage guys feel shafted or 90% of girls who model are hot to bring you facts and figures? It's a conversation and these are turns of phrase more than anything. The figures might not be on the mark but the gist is right. . It wouldn't work in an essay, but anyone who's had experience can confirm the same. Only a distinction someone hellbent on being dense wouldn't understand.

[serial muse]

So are you telling me that every woman who's marriage does not end in divorce is "happy?" When half of marriage end in divorce and assuming the rest arent all happy, it's clear that the majority of women are unhappy. An argument doesn't have to be scholarly to be logical. Would you also tell a guy who says something like most minimum wage guys feel shafted or 90% of girls who model are hot to bring you facts and figures? It's a conversation and these are turns of phrase more than anything. The figures might not be on the mark but the gist is right. . It wouldn't work in an essay, but anyone who's had experience can confirm the same. Only a distinction someone hellbent on being dense wouldn't understand.

 

Richard, my lad, you're creating an argument with me on a point about which I didn't actually argue. That is called a straw man argument. What I said was that for you to ridicule another poster for calling you out on specious "data" is illogical and emotional, which, in your case, is also hypocritical.

 

And then the dense thing here in your last sentence - you are confronted with the exact same issue. Nice work, again!

 

For the record, though - "it's clear that the majority of women are unhappy" is no kind of logical argument, and I'm sure you actually know that. You're just so hell-bent on making some kind of point that you're willing to ignore logic in its service. That's bad science, and an emotional argument.

[grkBoy]

grkBoy,

 

Physical looks don't matter that much with women. I am told I'm hot, sexy and handsome all the time. I've even had some women go on like this at length until they sound like a broken record. Then these very same women who went on and on about how hot I was end up totally blowing me off in phone game.

 

I'm beginning to really believe it doesn't matter that much at all.

 

Honestly, I don't know if women are throwing me into the player category when they meet me or the nice guy/husband category. I have no idea. I've had women tell me I'm really sweet and I've had women tell me I'm "such a little player". I'm clueless. All I know is, I get blown off by women more often now than I did before I was getting all these compliments and before I undertook all the self improvements.

 

Look, I've been told by many women I am cute, handsome, etc...but my real testament of the truth is when I ask myself "If I'm such a cute and wonderful why, why won't any of these women date me? Why did they FZ me?"

 

That's the hard truth. Physically you could be in decent or great shape, and have a nice face as well as be a gentleman...but if you're not making their panties wet, then you're just as "ugly" as the bonna-fide ugly guys whom these women also reject.

 

My whole point is really about an attitude change...and changing your fashion is one thing that honestly helps. It gives you confidence, makes you more "gutsy", and thus you start doing things that lead you down better paths.

 

When I changed myself up, I found that I suddenly flirted more...even if women saw it as "creepy". I never apologized if I creeped a woman out, but jokingly made it seem like she needs to get a grip. I stopped accepting the friendzone and just honestly told women I wanted to date them, not just be their pals.

 

In the end, women saw me different, and more of them suddenly started trying a first date with me...rather than an excuse and friendzone.

 

Some GIRLS do need the douchebag who plays games and treats them badly...but I've said we should all dismiss them and move on. Others just need a guy who shows he's got a penis, will use it, has charm/confidence, style, and thus comes off as a man.

 

What do you have to lose?

 

 

Not true at all. Alot of nice guys are good looking, dress well, etc. They simply aren't players and don't do the things that women seem to go for. Too many women will confuse confidence with cockiness. And they want someone that is exciting. Whether that means someone that goes out and parties up, whatever, most nice guys aren't partiers. And partiers aren't relationship material.

 

So the women go for these types, then end up bitching why they can't find a nice guy.

 

I agree to an extent...but this is also why I tell guys who have no life to get one. You don't have to do 10 shots of vodka in an Ed Hardy shirt after GTL in order to get women to like you. However, standing there with a club soda in a polo shirt and khakis won't turn them on either.

 

Women like socialble guys, guys with lives and even exciting lifestyles. Before my change I was just a geeky guy in baggy clothes who DJed and played video games. After the change I dressed much better, went to art shows, cooked food very well, traveled, and learned photography. These were things I wanted to do...not things to impress women. I built a lifestyle I wanted...and that's why women found me attractive and interesting.

 

The ones who don't do this are the "ugly" folk I speak of. "Ugly" isn't just looks...but personality as well.

[nofool4u]

When I changed myself up, I found that I suddenly flirted more...even if women saw it as "creepy". I never apologized if I creeped a woman out, but jokingly made it seem like she needs to get a grip. I stopped accepting the friendzone and just honestly told women I wanted to date them, not just be their pals.

 

so since you figure that the guys who are seen as nice guys are ugly, and you use to be a nice guy, did you think you were also ugly?

 

 

Some GIRLS do need the douchebag who plays games and treats them badly...but I've said we should all dismiss them and move on. Others just need a guy who shows he's got a penis, will use it, has charm/confidence, style, and thus comes off as a man.

 

that doesn't sound like confidence and charm though. that sounds like cockiness and conceit. show he has a penis and will use it? THAT is the talk of a player. THAT is the talk of a guy that the women go for, and end up crying about later.

 

 

The ones who don't do this are the "ugly" folk I speak of. "Ugly" isn't just looks...but personality as well.

 

and again, by your own admission, you use to be a "nice guy" and simply changed your attitude. so you then where ugly too, looks or otherwise, correct? I can see changing a personality, but unless you get plastic surgery, you too are ugly. Again, this is not me saying you are or aren't, this is your words applied to your situation.

 

or is it that all the OTHER nice guys are ugly?

[rocketboy9]

All these things the people are saying about being well groomed and well dressed is true to a point depending on the kind of girl you are looking for.

 

If you are looking for a corporate woman than its suits and ties all the way, if you are looking for a more independent casual funky kind of girl the suit and tie will turn her off - she will probably be more of a jeans and t-shirt kind of girl. These are just examples...

 

That being said a big thing is your self confidence. The keys IMHO are indifference and your attitude toward life. If you want to see the attitude in action watch John Wayne, Clint Eastwood or George Clooney. These got it going on and nothing rattles them. They just DONT CARE.

 

If a woman rejects you, you say so what and keep going. Thats how you have to be.

[Feelsgoodman]

Richard, my lad, you're creating an argument with me on a point about which I didn't actually argue. That is called a straw man argument. What I said was that for you to ridicule another poster for calling you out on specious "data" is illogical and emotional, which, in your case, is also hypocritical.

 

And then the dense thing here in your last sentence - you are confronted with the exact same issue. Nice work, again!

 

For the record, though - "it's clear that the majority of women are unhappy" is no kind of logical argument, and I'm sure you actually know that. You're just so hell-bent on making some kind of point that you're willing to ignore logic in its service. That's bad science, and an emotional argument.

You wouldn't know a logical argument if it hit you in the face. 90% of the crap you post on this board doesn't make any kind of logical sense, including the above post. And yes, that's an actual statistical figure

[Calutaxi484]

I don't think being a nice guy automatically makes someone ugly. I consider myself a nice guy.

 

Confidence is simply how you carry yourself. Do you walk tall and upright, or slouched and looking at the ground? Being confident doesn't exclude you from being nice.

 

The way you dress definitely can help boost your confidence. The better you look the better you feel. You can still be trendy without having a hand tailored European suit. There's some really simple things that women notice that men often don't (like does your belt match your shoes). As long as your outfit doesn't "clash" you can be okay, purple doesn't go with yellow unless you're at an LSU game. Dressing appropriately for an occasion is just common sense. You don't generally want to be wearing a Harley T shirt and paint stained jeans to someone's wedding.

 

Dominance doesn't mean controlling. Dominance is simply you taking the lead/initiative. Do you wait for her to call, or do you call? Did you ask her out? Giving her your number v. you getting her number.

 

They're both one of those things where you have to find the happy medium. Too little confidence and you're insecure, too much and you're cocky/arrogant.

[Pierre]

The way you dress definitely can help boost your confidence. The better you look the better you feel. You can still be trendy without having a hand tailored European suit. There's some really simple things that women notice that men often don't (like does your belt match your shoes). As long as your outfit doesn't "clash" you can be okay, purple doesn't go with yellow unless you're at an LSU game. Dressing appropriately for an occasion is just common sense. You don't generally want to be wearing a Harley T shirt and paint stained jeans to someone's wedding.

 

Dominance doesn't mean controlling. Dominance is simply you taking the lead/initiative. Do you wait for her to call, or do you call? Did you ask her out? Giving her your number v. you getting her number.

 

They're both one of those things where you have to find the happy medium. Too little confidence and you're insecure, too much and you're cocky/arrogant.

 

In another thread the OP stated he wears very tight clothes so the women can admire his muscles. He also tans regularly and is very fit.

 

Maybe the tight clothes is a problem.

[grkBoy]

so since you figure that the guys who are seen as nice guys are ugly, and you use to be a nice guy, did you think you were also ugly?

 

Looking back, I was ugly...both in physical and personality. I dressed badly, had some weight, no real social skills, and no confidence.

 

 

that doesn't sound like confidence and charm though. that sounds like cockiness and conceit. show he has a penis and will use it? THAT is the talk of a player. THAT is the talk of a guy that the women go for, and end up crying about later.

 

You've been resistant to my message at every step...so tell me, how's your thinking working out for you?

 

Look at all the guys who get friendzoned versus the ones who find LAST RELATIONSHIPS. I'm not talking flings...but lasting RLs. Look at every "husband material" guy women drool over, and all the guys even that women envy because he married someone else. Do you see any of these guys looking/acting like the "woe is me"/doormat nice guy?

 

I am NOT advocating guys to become actual playas...but trying to distinguish between the guys who fail versus the guys who become women magnets. Like it or not, being a nice average guy isn't going to cut it if the women in your neck of the woods aren't buying what you're selling.

 

 

and again, by your own admission, you use to be a "nice guy" and simply changed your attitude. so you then where ugly too, looks or otherwise, correct? I can see changing a personality, but unless you get plastic surgery, you too are ugly. Again, this is not me saying you are or aren't, this is your words applied to your situation.

 

or is it that all the OTHER nice guys are ugly?

 

I said this several times. I changed my fashion, lost weight, learned how to not be a doormat, but be a good man.

 

All you're doing now is trolling. You're taking any words I say and twisting them to still put off this "it's impossible" thinking.

 

How's that worked out for you in dating?

[verhrzn]

This whole ridiculous idea that quality women go for players is ridiculous. The only women you'll attract with your idea of a "player" are women with low self-esteem.

 

I am perhaps not a "quality" woman by some people's measures, but as soon as I get the idea that a guy is a flirt/player, I run for the hills, no matter HOW attractive he is.

 

Real-life example: I met a guy two months ago that right off the bat I was extremely attracted to. He is very physically attractive (his friends describe him as a "young Richard Gere"), works out, dresses well, and presents himself in a humorous, confident way.

 

However, over the course of the weekend, I also saw he was extremely flirty with multiple women, and was interested primarily in himself. He would brag about how women threw themselves at him. He was so busy getting the attention of all these different women that he didn't notice the girl who for sure WAS interested in him (me.)

 

That same weekend, I met another guy who I was initially less attracted to. (I'm not huge into blondes.) He doesn't work out, he's kind of an awkward flirt, and while he is confident in himself, he doesn't "put it out there" often. But the more I saw of him, the more attractive he became... I saw how sweet, loyal, and funny he is.

 

The sheer irony of this is that it turns out Player Guy may actually be interested in me now, but my attraction to him has completely cooled. I am far more attracted to the nice guy who was just himself (with confidence... that part is key.)

 

Turn to player tricks, and you risk running off the very "quality" women who you want to attract, and who maybe would have been attracted to you before you tried to change who you were.

[phillyfan]

I'm not saying I'm uninterested in a relationship. The problem is, for guys, we ask out girl A, girl B & girl C. Only girl A will go out with us, the other two reject us (and of course we never get told what we did wrong or get any constructive feedback whatsoever). Now we feel lucky to have a date at all. So we tend to cling to the first woman we find that'll have us because we're convinced that if we go back into the dating world, we're just gonna be subjecting ourselves to even more rejection. Even if girl A isn't all that, we settle. Which, in my opinion, is probably why 80% of women complain about how her husband isn't that into her and he ignores her. Ultimately, I believe it's because we were too scared to keep dating and find a better girl.

 

That was the mistake I made and I KNOW most men make the very same mistake. And I also believe this is why 80% of married women aren't happy.

 

For me, I need to make dating less rejection filled. And the only way to do that is to figure out a way to make girls B & C want to date me too. That way, I can get to know them all, and if none are a match, I can ask out girls D, E & F until I find a girl I really want who also wants me too.

 

From what I can see, the "player type" is getting all the dates because there is thread after thread on here where women talk about how they know better, but they are attracted to the player.

 

Dude u got it so wrong. First off girl B n C dont want u cos each woman is diffrent, thy just like diffrent things in a dude, aint no bad reflection on u. I like cheeseburgers u like chinese food, wateva, neitha is betta we just hav our prefrences.

 

Second off, girls hate playas. Wat Girls love is alpha males there is a BIG diffrence trust me. The girls tht come on here sayin thy r p*ssed cos they got playd r only postin here because they r p*ssed and neva wantd 2 meet a playa - thy thougt thy were gettin a good alpha male but thn got crapped on. ALL the girls who meet nice dudes dont botha comin here cos thy dont need no advice.

 

A playa is a jerkoff I can say tht I used 2 b one, now I am older I treat girls betta evn if i dont want no comitment I tell them upfront I aint neva playin games wit noone.

 

Last off dude just b urself thts the only thing tht works eventully

[nofool4u]

You've been resistant to my message at every step...so tell me, how's your thinking working out for you?

 

working great for me. its not the message, its the attitude. I dress and look fine. and now that I'm out in the dating world I'm loving it.

 

I just still refuse to act like a horses ass to get women. if women want that and complain later, then some other jerk can fit the bill for them. not this guy

 

 

Look at all the guys who get friendzoned versus the ones who find LAST RELATIONSHIPS.

 

I don't call the attitude you professed to have anything to do with relationships, but everything to do with being a player which is what the OP was talking about.

 

if the goal is to play women, or show as many women that you "have a penis and aren't afraid to use it", then I'm sure no matter how unsatisfied in the end the women are with the bad boy mentality, then you are accomplishing your mission.

 

if the goal is to have a relationship that lasts, sorry, not many women are going to be satisfied with men that "aren't afraid to use it", cuz they aren't afraid to use it with more than just one woman at a time.

 

 

I am NOT advocating guys to become actual playas

 

with your description of it, yes, you are. you even said, "what have you got to lose?"

 

 

...but trying to distinguish between the guys who fail versus the guys who become women magnets. Like it or not, being a nice average guy isn't going to cut it if the women in your neck of the woods aren't buying what you're selling.

 

 

well then I guess we'll all just have to roll our eyes when these women complain about the very types of men you describe.

 

 

 

I said this several times. I changed my fashion, lost weight, learned how to not be a doormat, but be a good man.

 

All you're doing now is trolling.

 

no, you aren't talking about good men, and it isn't me thats trolling trying to insinuate to the OP and guys like him are simply ugly. there are nice guys out there that ARE good looking and DO dress well. But there are simply alot of women that won't be pleased and anything short of an adonis will not do.

[nofool4u]

This whole ridiculous idea that quality women go for players is ridiculous.

 

on the contrary, "quality" women do NOT go for players.

 

its just the perception some men have that desirable women do go for them.

 

maybe desirable in the looks department, but if a women obviously is too superficial, which goes beyond looks, then they will make their own bed and aren't desirable in my opinion.

 

 

The only women you'll attract with your idea of a "player" are women with low self-esteem.

 

not true there, because the women that go for the players think they are all that and a bag of chips.

 

 

I am perhaps not a "quality" woman by some people's measures, but as soon as I get the idea that a guy is a flirt/player, I run for the hills, no matter HOW attractive he is.

 

then you broke the mold my dear.

[nofool4u]

Second off, girls hate playas.

 

they may hate em, but they still want em.

 

I actually dated a girl that use to date bad boys, although I didn't know it.

 

At a function once we were talking to her friends and one of them told her, "you got yourself a good one finally!"

 

And she said, to the effect of, "well the bad boys were fun in their day, but I got a good one now"

 

To which my reply was, "what?" Could have cut the air with a knife. Her friends kind of had this awkward look on their faces. Needless to say, I didn't take the relationship seriously after that.

[Cypress25]

I don't think being a nice guy automatically makes someone ugly.

 

Being a nice guy doesn't make someone ugly. It just so happens that some guys (nice and not-nice) are ugly. And the ugly ones try to convince themselves that they're getting rejected because they're nice. In reality, it's because they're ugly.

 

There are plenty of attractive nice guys out there. And they probably have no trouble getting dates.

 

Being confident doesn't exclude you from being nice.

 

This is true. It's not a nice guy/player dichotomy. Most players know how to act sweet and charming, while playing several women simultaneously. The truth is, not all nice guys are boring or meek. It's entirely possible to be confident, fun, sociable, and nice all at the same time. That's what many people (men and women) are looking for in a partner.

 

Dominance doesn't mean controlling. Dominance is simply you taking the lead/initiative. Do you wait for her to call, or do you call? Did you ask her out? Giving her your number v. you getting her number.

 

This is the difference between alpha and beta males. Many women want an alpha, not a player. The alpha male is confident enough to take the initiative, which women like because it shows that he is genuinely interested in her. The beta male, however, waits for the woman to take him by the hand and lead the way. He might be a nice guy, but most women don't want to be a guy's babysitter.