Thoughts on marriage

[wolfess]

Nothing wrong with your views, including the part where you angrily yell at your BF for not cooking as you wish. As long as BF is with your program it is OK.

 

From the evolution point of view one of the drives to have sex is to leave our genes behind. That is why men subconsciously favor women with attributes that scream "I am fertile".

 

Why do you think your genes are not worthy? What would happen if most folks had your ideas on procreation?

 

BTW, being pregnant is natural?

 

No I don't yell at HIM, when I cook I yell at the food. "COOK ALREADY! WHY AREN'T YOU DONE?" I also call it names. I frequently chastise inanimate objects, I always have...

 

Being pregnant isn't unnatural (it is however a lot more dangerous than people perceive it to be), I never meant to imply that. By all means my strong desire to not want kids is unnatural, I accept this.

 

Oh, I think my genes are worthy, i was an awesome baby, I slept through the night, learned to walk and talk fast, I have no genetic disorders, I'm healthy and attractive BUT aren't there plenty of other people just like that who DO want to have kids. My genes aren't rare or unique, they are very much present in the population already. (BTW I'm a genetics nerd love gene research, might minor in genetics...) If more people didn't want kids, we'd have a lot more resources to go around at lower prices most likely. There would be more land available to live, work, farm, ranch, or simply recreate on. There would be less species becoming extinct from human encroachment. there would be more biological diversity. There would be downfalls too, but I couldn't imagine that there would ever be a majority of people who didn't want kids, like you said, it's a natural drive. I do think if I had kids (in this hypothetical I used a surrogate because I won't take the risks even in a hypothetical), they'd probably be kick ass, but it's not worth it, ESPECIALLY if they're kick ass, because this world is not on an upswing, I sometimes wonder why I was born into this world myself. Everything I love about this planet is persecuted and vanishing and being here to see it happen hurts, especially when all my efforts to stop it fail.

 

(specifically I love wolves which were delisted politically and are becoming genetically and ecologically extinct even though they are still present on the landscape, bison are mixed with cattle the genetically pure ones aren't allowed to follow natural migration patterns thanks to non-native cows, my favorite also rare breed of horses, the Colonial Spanish horse are on the decline with older breeders retiring and stock being sold for meat, I'm an ecologist, the state of the natural world saddens me).

 

And if they weren't kick ass, well, another reason I'm not good with kids is I'm very blunt and I don't sugar coat anything. I can't fake emotion, I'm a very bad liar. I'd flat out tell them. I'd pretty much flat out tell them everything about any question they asked, they'd have terrible nightmares...

 

Even my dad who in comparison to me is super conservative told me if he was young and just starting out he wouldn't have kids. The economy is crap, air quality is poor, so is water quality and food is expensive, especially food that won't kill you.

 

BUt as for thoughts on marriage since that is the title of this:

 

Marriage is different for everyone. Everyone is different, different religious, ethnic, social, cultural, and political backgrounds. Marriage can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. I was kind of married once, me and my current BF file doug the paperwork went to the town.. oh what are they called... anyway we said I do and all, but the next day we realized. Oh crap, we are way too young and stupid to do this just yet. So the paperwork was never submitted and it's like it never happened. But it did. I don't consider myself married, or ever having been married.

 

Marriage to me starts with a ceremony of a public nature (people at least know or find out about it), usually a wedding. It is a social contract to be more or less monogamous (at least emotionally) there are exceptions with 'open' marriages where married couples are allowed to have sex outside the marriage, it's still a marriage. It can also be spiritual or religious. Beyond that, it's relationship differences, who does what, how much and when doesn't change the label.

Edited September 28, 2011 by wolfess

[sunshinegirl]

Seems like there's a lot of negativity on this thread. Isn't the basic idea to just find someone who shares your views on partnering/partnerships, whatever they are?

 

These big generalizations about marriage or roles in marriage seem kind of silly when it's really going to boil down to two specific people and whether their ideas about partnership mesh. To the OP, sounds like you and your girlfriend just aren't on the same page. No harm no foul, maybe you're just incompatible in that way.

 

FWIW, I'm happily married to someone whose basic view on marriage pretty much mirrors my own. Our parents are still married (40 plus years), our siblings are in long-term marriages, we have lots of models of stable & loving partnerships around us, which no doubt fostered a positive view of marriage in each of us. And then we found each other - hooray! Our marriage works for us and that's all that matters...no?

[Pierre]

There would be more land available to live, work, farm, ranch, or simply recreate on. There would be less species becoming extinct from human encroachment.

 

You are a prolific writer.

 

It is Ok not to feel the desire to procreate. As long as you find a mate that does not want children. But, as I said the only reason we are in the planet is to perpetuate the species. We are no different than your beloved wolves.

 

Do not be that concerned with the planet. In relationship to the Milky Way we are a trillionth of a grain of salt. In relationship to the universe we are nothing. The sun is supposed to burn for 10 billion years and it has about 7 billion years to go. Once the sun is done there will be no more Earth and the entire history of our civilization will be lost forever with trace.

 

But, do not despair. It is likely many civilizations like ours have existed before. These civilizations will come and go.

 

Why do you think you have a pregnancy phobia? Any childhood issues?

[wolfess]

You are a prolific writer.

 

It is Ok not to feel the desire to procreate. As long as you find a mate that does not want children. But, as I said the only reason we are in the planet is to perpetuate the species. We are no different than your beloved wolves.

 

Do not be that concerned with the planet. In relationship to the Milky Way we are a trillionth of a grain of salt. In relationship to the universe we are nothing. The sun is supposed to burn for 10 billion years and it has about 7 billion years to go. Once the sun is done there will be no more Earth and the entire history of our civilization will be lost forever with trace.

 

But, do not despair. It is likely many civilizations like ours have existed before. These civilizations will come and go.

 

Why do you think you have a pregnancy phobia? Any childhood issues?

 

No childhood issues, very happy childhood. Phobia... not really, I don't have nightmares or obsessive thoughts about it. I just really don't think it's worth it. I like being in shape and seeing my abs, I don't like feeling sick or hormonal, I don't want high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, oh hell this is a good list:

 

 

http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/004.htm

 

Just not worth it to me.

[mesmerized]

That's odd. My mother kept working after having me. She's one of those "educated career women". I also plan to keep working after having kids. Where does the 80% number come from? Was there a study done or a survey or something?

 

I don't know any career women that stopped her career after having kids, none. In fact, a couple of my female family members are the sole breadwinner of their families because their husbands are too lazy, they stay at home and don't even do housework.

 

OP, That's why you don't marry a lazy or a traditional woman. Get a woman that can actually contribute something to your life rather than a woman that is just pretty.

Edited September 28, 2011 by mesmerized

[udolipixie]

I think that in todays culture women have a larger benefit to being married then men do.

I think it benefits most women when the marriage ends.

 

As for marriage benefiting women more than men to me depends on is they are a stay at home mom with little housework/childcare versus the female majority earner, equal contributor, or stay at home mom with tons of housework/childcare

 

What am I missing? Am I being bitter towards women and marriage or something?

You're missing that your gfs desires in a marriage doesn't hold that much appeal to you. .

 

Not bitter perhaps you're just getting the feeling that this isn't going to last much longer not that you have this new view on her and this view is now affecting your enjoyment of the time you have now with her...possibly...maybe..

Edited September 28, 2011 by udolipixie

[musemaj11]

I despise marriage. I spit on marriage. But I will get married should I one day decide to have a kid because I will want the best for my kid and I can't deny that marriage creates a better psychological environment for a child.

[musemaj11]

I think the biggest benefit to the man in this situation is a stable, loving family, relationship, and home environment. But it would take a very special woman to hold up her end of the deal.

 

If I were a man marrying a woman who wanted the above, this is what I would consider a fair trade:

 

1. She takes care of all the housework, upkeep, cooking, laundry, errands, car maintenance errands, gardening, yard work, and all the business of running the home and family.

2. She is an excellent mother who does her part to create and maintain a healthy, loving family.

3. She handles all travel arrangements, finds excellent deals, handles the logistics of it, manages child care whether the kids stay at home or go with.

4. She maintains the house beautifully and is an excellent host.

5. She provides loving support and great sex when I want it.

6. She takes all the above just as seriously as I take my bread-winning job, and doesn't slack off on any of it.

 

And I would absolutely have a clear legal agreement up front about how we would manage a divorce financially and with respect to custody, and what the grounds for it would be (adultery, etc.).

Lol, if you were a man, you would never get married because you won't be able to find such a woman. Maybe you could but you would have to go to China or something first.

 

Any legitimate commitment assumes some risk.

 

If you aren't willing to assume the risks, then don't commit. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Bull crap.

 

No kidding how much risk Chloe Kardashian took by committing to Lamar Odom. If the marriage didnt work out, she would run the risk of ending up with millions of dollars in money and assets! What a risk indeed!!!

 

A man who seeks to marry a traditional or non-career woman isnt looking out for himself. He is playing with fire.

Edited September 28, 2011 by musemaj11

[FitChick]

Many studies over the past years have shown that married men are happier, healthier and live longer than single men. It's married women who are unhappier compared to single women. Those are the facts.

 

Do what works for you and don't solicit the opinions of others.

[OhSynapse]

I think your gf's expectations are unrealistic. From your post, she pretty much expects to sit around the house, not go to work, and to travel on your paychecks??? I do NOT know any women who are like that. I only know one person, who was a career woman but then quit to be a stay-at-home home. That's only because it makes much more sense financially for her to stay home and take care of their 4 children who are all under 5 years old instead of sending them to daycare. She plans to go back to work once all of the kids start kindergarten/elementary school. I would also never quit my career once I have kids. I'm pretty sure my significant other will not make enough to pay off my 200k+ student debt haha. I really don't know any women who expect their husbands to provide everything for them without contribution. Crazy.

[CarrieT]

Many studies over the past years have shown that married men are happier, healthier and live longer than single men. It's married women who are unhappier compared to single women. Those are the facts.

 

Do what works for you and don't solicit the opinions of others.

 

Bravo!

 

(Although I would prefer to be a married woman than a single one...)

[musemaj11]

Many studies over the past years have shown that married men are happier, healthier and live longer than single men. It's married women who are unhappier compared to single women. Those are the facts.

Yea, facts that dont take into account that its not the marriage itself that makes the men happy. Its the healthy long term relationship. A study done on long term unmarried couples would probably show a similar result.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I think the biggest benefit to the man in this situation is a stable, loving family, relationship, and home environment. But it would take a very special woman to hold up her end of the deal.

 

If I were a man marrying a woman who wanted the above, this is what I would consider a fair trade:

 

1. She takes care of all the housework, upkeep, cooking, laundry, errands, car maintenance errands, gardening, yard work, and all the business of running the home and family.

2. She is an excellent mother who does her part to create and maintain a healthy, loving family.

3. She handles all travel arrangements, finds excellent deals, handles the logistics of it, manages child care whether the kids stay at home or go with.

4. She maintains the house beautifully and is an excellent host.

5. She provides loving support and great sex when I want it.

6. She takes all the above just as seriously as I take my bread-winning job, and doesn't slack off on any of it.

 

And I would absolutely have a clear legal agreement up front about how we would manage a divorce financially and with respect to custody, and what the grounds for it would be (adultery, etc.).

 

That's not really a fair trade. That's a slave auction.

 

Pretty much in your situation the man works a 9-5 job and the woman does everything else. It's unrealistic. Responsibilities should be split and that's something couples need to decide for themselves.

 

I've heard statistically when women work and raise a family that they still end up handling more of the household and child rearing responsibilties then their husbands do ontop of working, no wonder men are happier in marriages. Apparently marriage has the opposite affect on women sometimes.

[mesmerized]

That's not really a fair trade. That's a slave auction.

 

Pretty much in your situation the man works a 9-5 job and the woman does everything else. It's unrealistic. Responsibilities should be split and that's something couples need to decide for themselves.

 

I've heard statistically when women work and raise a family that they still end up handling more of the household and child rearing responsibilties then their husbands do ontop of working, no wonder men are happier in marriages. Apparently marriage has the opposite affect on women sometimes.

 

Oh yeah. I can link studies about it here later if you want. Marriage typically causes women MORE work and less for men.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

It might be useful Mesmerized.

[musemaj11]

Oh yeah. I can link studies about it here later if you want. Marriage typically causes women MORE work and less for men.

And in most marriages typically the man has a harder job and makes more money.

 

Also typically the extra work women have at home in relation to the existence of children mainly because women tend to be a lot more pampering toward their children and children tend to be more comfortable to do anything with their mothers.

[udolipixie]

Yea, facts that dont take into account that its not the marriage itself that makes the men happy. Its the healthy long term relationship. A study done on long term unmarried couples would probably show a similar result.

 

You're right.

 

There was a study comparing single men/women vs married men/women happiness.

 

Single being never married, widows, divorcees not just single as in not being in a relationship. There were single by that criteria women/men who were in fwb or long term relationships I recall from reading their comments when they should why this was group was happiest/miserable.

 

Need to find a link. I lost track of that since it was my jumping board to women aren't happiest married research. Though it may not really be useful since it didn't have percentages of how many never married/widows/divorces were in relationships and what kind. So single men being second happy could have had only x smaller guys in a relationship and X bigger not.

 

The study:

Happiness/mental health/physical health were compared..not sure how they got a universal measure of happiness or how relationship status could greatly affect health

 

From high to low:

men: married, single, divorced

women: divorced, single, married

 

Their high to low included married, never married, widowed, and divorced. But I don't recall which place widowed/never married placed for either gender.

 

All I recall was happiest and most miserable. So I put single to mean never married/widowed. I do remember one gender is more likely to die matching their partners death than the other. Not sure which one.

 

I was freaking shocked married was last for women considering the whole wedding day thing so I went on more studies looking to verify that. Found a lot that did and they did without using some universal measure of happiness... too amusing that a study used happiness as factor when it's not something that can be universally measured.

 

So overall for men

Happiness: it's about being in a relationship since single was second happiest and the single by their criteria didn't mean not in a relationship it meant just not married.

 

Miserable: being divorced...though I don't think it's anything to do with failure of marriage bs I recalled the study stating that and I was thinking that's just politely saying alimony/child custody screwed you

Edited September 28, 2011 by udolipixie

[bigmomma1974]

WOW! After i read some of these post thats what came to mind. especially the guy who said that he expects his woman to give him sex when he wants it. Life doesnt work like that and being married it don't work like that either. I've been both a career woman and a stay at home mom, i much prefer to work verses staying home. However staying home is work also, cooking,cleaning,laundry, taking care of kids if you have them or animals. I cross the line at mowing thats hubbys job. sorry asthma usually keeps me in most of the summer months. Marriage means something different to everyone. Some men want their women to stay home some women prefer to work.. I say what ever works for your relationship is whats best for you all then, Whaat works for us may not work for someone else.