Emilia Posted September 26, 2011 Posted September 26, 2011 ++++If a man told me that he'd gone to a masseuse a month ago, I would in no way think that means he wants a massage from me++++ So, your boyfriend is paying other women for a massage, and you would not be able to connect the dots that he wants YOU to give him a massage. You'd never see a) he likes massage and b.) he's paying other women for massage and therefore conclude c.) I will give him a massage. C would never be connected to A & B in a woman's mind. Interesting. Ok, so, I leave it to her, with no hints, other than to indicate I like massage, and her choice is to not volunteer a massage. So, then, I drop a hint that I want a massage by telling her I just paid another woman to give me a massage. Still, no massage. It sounds like these women are selfish to me. I suppose I could TELL HER I want a massage, but what I'd really like to find is a woman who AUTOMATICALLY volunteers something because SHE WANTS TO. Not because I'm telling her to. No woman's ever had to TELL ME to go down on her. It's just something I know she'll like and I want to please her. Pleasing her makes me feel good. I guess pleasing a man isn't a priority with women. It's all about them. So all the women you date are wrong and you are right? Erm..... This tells me you are either insisting on having some pity party here and will just whine and whinge or that you aren't smart to pick decent women. Or decent women don't like you. Dropping hints is childish. Ask for a massage if you want one and stop this dumb ' connecting dots' nonsense. It's not smart
Mangomonkey Posted September 26, 2011 Posted September 26, 2011 People cant read your mind. Did you ever ask for a massage? I see where your coming from but seriously. Just gotta speak up on what you want. Its like when a woman winks at me. I just think they got something in their eye. What kinda message is that?
serial muse Posted September 26, 2011 Posted September 26, 2011 Yes, agree with mangomonkey...I have to say, I'm surprised you're sticking to the "they ought to just know what I want" reasoning. That's the sort of thing I'm used to reading on LS that guys hate and find annoying about women. I think the most reasonable and adult thing to do is to communicate directly and openly rather than passive-aggressively. Forming a new relationship? Ask for a massage as part of the foreplay. And then perhaps, if it's a woman you develop a longer-term relationship with, she will come to know through your discussions that this is something you really like, and will then do it for you as a result without you having to ask each time. Sounds really nice, right? That's part of the joy of getting to know people but also being honest about what you want. The rest is just silly games.
OliveOyl Posted September 26, 2011 Posted September 26, 2011 What seems to be missing here, is if the woman really cares for you, then she'll want to please you. She may not automatically figure out that pleasing you = massage. But at least she should be open/asking "if you want anything, let me know." I do that with my BF, I try to let him know I'm open to doing/trying different things if he wants. This "tit-for-tat" / "she should be able to figure out what I want" isn't really a sign of selfishness, more a lack caring (love) for the other person. No matter what though, you should ask directly for what you want rather than hoping your GF picks up on "clues." If she is into you, she will be more than pleased to please you.
xxoo Posted September 26, 2011 Posted September 26, 2011 ++++If a man told me that he'd gone to a masseuse a month ago, I would in no way think that means he wants a massage from me++++ So, your boyfriend is paying other women for a massage, and you would not be able to connect the dots that he wants YOU to give him a massage. You'd never see a) he likes massage and b.) he's paying other women for massage and therefore conclude c.) I will give him a massage. C would never be connected to A & B in a woman's mind. Interesting.. Maybe you need to define 'massage'. To me, a paid massage is a professional-type thing. Meaning: something you go to a professional for, possibly for health reasons. I wouldn't think my massages compare in any way? Unless my partner is a masseuse (sp?), I wouldn't make any connection between paying for a massage and getting one from a partner. Apples and oranges in my mind. Still, I vote selfish. I might not "get" that you want a massage (ask, for goodness sakes!), but I would be trying to give in my own ways.
Feelsgoodman Posted September 26, 2011 Posted September 26, 2011 I don't have an "excuse" it's just we are not good at everything. Giving good massages is not a be all end all. I do strength training. I've never had it in a relationship where the guy said "hey, it's a make it or break it thing, it's expected that anyone I'm dating be good at giving massages." I have given them, have just been told that they are not strong enough. Big whoop. Plus if a guy is paying a professional, then why should I think I could be as good as a professional masseuse who has had education and earned a license to do so in that field? It's like a guy who says "Hey, I got my haircut last week." does that mean he wants me to give him a haircut next time? LOL Sure, professionals do it better. If your guy wasn't satisfied with what you were doing in bed, would you advise him to visit a professional instead of trying to improve? A massage can be very arousing and part of sexual foreplay if done properly. We are not talking about the kind of massage that is administered to someone suffering from a sports injury here...You really don't need to be a pro to make it pleasurable.
Hot Chick Posted September 26, 2011 Posted September 26, 2011 It's never been a problem but thanks for your concern, Feelsgood.
Author TheSingleGuy Posted September 26, 2011 Author Posted September 26, 2011 Ok, here's where it gets complicated with me asking for a massage. I touched on this issue with the last girlfriend a little, and it wasn't really flying. In my mind, she should give me a massage, but in her mind, it needs to be kind of equal. I give you a massage, you give me a massage. The problem in my mind, is, I think my oral should be equal to her giving me a massage. One thing I know, is, I can't tell her that I view going down on her as less than anything I love to do and want to do (even though sometimes I really don't feel like it). But once I start, even if I don't feel like it, if she cums really, really hard, I always enjoy it. It makes me feel like a king. But what I can't do is say, "Well, since I go down on you, you should give me a massage." That makes it sound like I really don't enjoy going down on her. If she starts to think I don't enjoy it, that's gonna f*** everything up. You seduce a woman's mind, not her body. There's no way in hell I can breach this topic without the tit-for-tat eventually coming up. Why should she give me a massage if I'm not gonna give her one? That's bound to come up eventually. As for the argument that "I'm not a professional"...that's just pathetic. Everyone loves to receive a massage. Can't really say the same for giving one. You tend to start looking at the clock when you're the one giving them. Thus, I suppose, the reason women seldom volunteer them to their boyfriends...They're too selfish. I'm sorry, but it's just the way I feel. If your man is giving you good orgasms and paying for everything, you should give him a good massage without him having to ask for it.
january2011 Posted September 26, 2011 Posted September 26, 2011 I suggest looking for women whose giving love languages are acts of service and touch. Otherwise, nthing everyone who said that you need to ask for what you want rather than hinting and expecting your female partners to be mindreaders. As a side note, I'm petite, have small hands and have been told that I give great massages. But it took practice. And yes, I do get tired sometimes and my hands ache a little. Though a good lubricant helps. Occasionally I use my feet and stand on my partner but I prefer using my hands because it's easier to feel for the 'knots' that way. I can understand that some girls aren't interested in learning to give good massages or have been put off by negative feedback. And that's fine. I think that what's important is that you come to a mutual agreement about how you demonstrate your love to your partner. Something that will make both partners happy and neither of you feel like it's too great a sacrifice, it's unreasonable or you feel that you're being taken advantage of. Giving and receiving love should be pleasurable for both parties and not a chore. That's when the resentment starts to build.
Alma Mobley Posted September 26, 2011 Posted September 26, 2011 There is a difference between a massage between couples and a professional massage (and I'm going to assume that we're not talking about the places that offer "happy endings" but licensed professionals.) In fact, my husband has received those kinds of massages in the past when he was having muscle problems in addition to physical therapy. So, if he is paying a licensed professional, I am going to assume he has a reason for doing that instead of JUST ASKING me. And my husband has asked me and I've complied, no problem. I don't think of massages as necessarily intimate or sexual though they can be in the right context. I don't know if these women are selfish. Maybe they are, but if you want a strong relationship, you have to communicate your needs clearly or you'll continue to have this problem whether the woman is selfish or not. My husband and I tell each other what we want in and outside of the bedroom. We also tell each other what we don't want or like. We have to, we're not mind readers. Besides, if you know that you have communicated your needs clearly and the woman refuses or acts put out instead of eager to please, you'll know for sure where she lies on the selfish spectrum. ++++If a man told me that he'd gone to a masseuse a month ago, I would in no way think that means he wants a massage from me++++ So, your boyfriend is paying other women for a massage, and you would not be able to connect the dots that he wants YOU to give him a massage. You'd never see a) he likes massage and b.) he's paying other women for massage and therefore conclude c.) I will give him a massage. C would never be connected to A & B in a woman's mind. Interesting. Ok, so, I leave it to her, with no hints, other than to indicate I like massage, and her choice is to not volunteer a massage. So, then, I drop a hint that I want a massage by telling her I just paid another woman to give me a massage. Still, no massage. It sounds like these women are selfish to me. I suppose I could TELL HER I want a massage, but what I'd really like to find is a woman who AUTOMATICALLY volunteers something because SHE WANTS TO. Not because I'm telling her to. No woman's ever had to TELL ME to go down on her. It's just something I know she'll like and I want to please her. Pleasing her makes me feel good. I guess pleasing a man isn't a priority with women. It's all about them.
Hot Chick Posted September 26, 2011 Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) The whole massage thing is a little weird because it's never been something a guy that I've been seeing or in a relationship has expected or expressed he wanted in a relationship. I have given them, but I never met a guy where he was expecting this as what a woman should do in a relationship, otherwise they're a selfish person. As far as sex goes, the guy is usually getting off (with an orgasm). For some reason you are adding in the "I'm paying for all dinners, etc. even though I won't let her pay and never expect her to" as part of the "she's selfish" equation. That's really not fair. I don't think that you and this woman are going to make it because you have these internal expectations of the perfect woman and are editing in your mind how she should be exactly, and you're never going to find a woman who will be perfect to you. You are always going to be resentful. If you went gay, that would be an great option for you. So the answer to your question (which you already have an answer to) is that no, the women you date are not selfish....however you are a bit weird. Edited September 26, 2011 by Hot Chick
carhill Posted September 27, 2011 Posted September 27, 2011 OP, amongst all the expressions of care you enumerated, how many did the ladies ask for directly, by communicating clearly, as in saying 'I like this' or 'I want this' or 'this makes me feel good'? My advice to you is to use this as good information and, when encountering such examples in the future, limit your generous nature to those who earn it. What ends up happening otherwise is that you live too much outside yourself and they suck it all in. Some people are more natural givers and others more natural takers. If you ever meet a giver, whoa, it's a shocker, IME. I have a few female friends like that and I consider their husbands the luckiest men on the planet. Care less, give less, communicate boundaries more. Achieve balance. A woman who is like minded will appreciate and reciprocate your kind and generous nature. Look for that. Good luck.
yep Posted September 27, 2011 Posted September 27, 2011 Somewhat off topic but, I understand the orgasm and cumming are two separate events for a woman I'm confused, what's the difference? Or are you talking about squirting? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_ejaculation but these women almost always cum really hard (I've learned a lot about this over the years) So what's the secret technique? Inquiring minds want to know. As to your main question, could it be that their interest level just isn't that high? I ask because I'll betcha they'd give johnny depp a back rub if he wanted one. In other words it might not be selfishness versus nonselfishness as much as it's about 'liking you' versus 'being crazy about you'. Have you tried being a little more aloof/not as available and making them work for it a bit more?
musemaj11 Posted September 27, 2011 Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) American women are such princesses because the men are such doormats. Women are never going to stop expecting to be paid for if the men never stop expecting themselves to always be the ones paying. So stop being enablers, guys. Edited September 27, 2011 by musemaj11
xxoo Posted September 27, 2011 Posted September 27, 2011 As for the argument that "I'm not a professional"...that's just pathetic. Everyone loves to receive a massage. 1. no, not everyone loves to receive them (I don't). That is like saying everyone loves to receive oral, but you don't. 2. I would never connect that "I went for a massage." was a hint for "I want a massage from you." It isn't a matter of pathetic or not. It is reality. 3. I'd actually be completely ok with giving a massage and getting oral! I would hate for it presented as "I did this for you, so you owe me that--and no, I won't reciprocate." But I'd be agreeable to "No thanks, you don't need to reciprocate oral. But you know what I'd love? I'd just love a massage."
daphne Posted September 27, 2011 Posted September 27, 2011 I agree with a lot of posts that talk about communication, especially Carhill's. I think that you are expecting people to read your mind, and your'e disappointed that they're not doing exactly what you want, on you terms. Why are you so opposed to asking for what you want? Also, if you know your'e going to be resentful about giving too much, give what you won't resent. And don't expect anything in return. That's the true essence of giving. Not to receive in kind. A lot of women have this expectation of mind reading, and they complain like you do. I think that even if you met a very generous woman, you'd still complain because she wouldn't know what exactly it is you need, but might be giving something else because that's all she knows. It would be a lot simpler if you'd just ask. Simply put, if you want your needs met, you're going to have to take responsibility and ask for it.
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