interesting article about "second wives" in china

[nyrias2]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/article604618.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1

 

Infidelity is not always shunned by society, and love is not the basis for marriage. Fun read!

 

Quote from the article:

 

"None of the six of us already seated around a table in Beijing’s stylish Three Guizhou Men restaurant batted a single lash, even though Tang is married with two children – and we all know his wife. Bringing a mistress to dinner in China is not cause for comment, especially in a hip, expensive outfit like this, where patrons have to be rich to afford the food."

 

"In the US, a mistress should be a well-kept secret. In most of Europe, she should be kept with discretion. In China, the keepers of ernai get not only the service but also the face (maintaining face, or an unchallenged public persona, is seen as hugely significant). In a second wife’s lifestyle is a reflection of her master’s capacity to spend. Her beauty is a testament to his taste, her role both public and private."

 

"I once asked a Chinese friend of mine why he stayed married when he admitted to preferring his mistress to his wife. “For the sake of convenience,” he said kindly and without rancour. Their parents were made happy by the marriage; he and his wife both found security and comfort in it. They just sought romance elsewhere."

[StoneCold]

here come the LS "Morality" Gestapo........

[sadcalifornian]

When I visited China for biz, I was invited to a dinner at a fancy restaurant in Shanghai. It was 9pmish. I and my employee were greeted by two Chinese associates, each was accompanied by young female staff. So, 6 of us sat around a round table ordering food and drinks. I forgot the name of the drink, but it was strong stuff. I almost coughed at the smell of it while trying to drink it up.

 

Well, during our talks of biz for over an hour, I noticed the female staffs never said anything to contribute. I felt bad for them that they are not let participate in the conversation, so I decided to talk to them. I asked what their positions were. Well, one answered she works for a travel agency and the other answered she works as a caddie for a local golf club. I was like WTH?

 

Maybe I was too drunk to think straight, and I was puzzled to make out what's going on. I kept talking to them and finally my employee nudged me to stop talking. I eventually realized that these girls are no staffs. They were their mistresses. I heard having mistress in China is a common phenomenon, but I never imagined they would be so bold to take them to a serious biz dinner such as that. I was aghast, and I felt disrespected even.

 

Also, another night, I was invited to another dinner by another company for biz. After dinner, the staff there took us to a local bar, where one of the female staff kept asking me if I want a "girl friend". She even hinted that she was willing to be my girlfriend if I want. She kept this up for hours. It was just weird, and I began to doubt if I understand correctly what she meant by "girlfriend". I even asked her many times what she meant by "girlfriend"? Her poor English made it difficult to communicate, but in the end I figured out what it was. She meant mistress, and it is relationship based on my paying money periodically and her providing me with companioinship involving sex. So, everytime I visit China, I can spend time with her, and in return I am expected to pay her. Not exactly like paying prostitute for sex each time but more like helping her out with her living expenses as her "part time husband", I guess. I heard some even get themselves pregnant demanding more money as child support.

[nyrias2]

Maybe I was too drunk to think straight, and I was puzzled to make out what's going on. I kept talking to them and finally my employee nudged me to stop talking. I eventually realized that these girls are no staffs. They were their mistresses. I heard having mistress in China is a common phenomenon, but I never imagined they would be so bold to take them to a serious biz dinner such as that. I was aghast, and I felt disrespected even.

 

I don't think they meant disrespect. Respect is a very much cultural dependent thing. If it is accepted, there is no disrespect. In fact, it may be "respect" if they showed you their "priced possessions".

[nyrias2]

“the ones who do it solely for money – they’re like, ‘You can use my body for sex and I’ll use your money and apartment and car for a luxurious life.’ Then there’s the other kind, who love the money but also love the man. They get left with nothing.”

 

This is even more interesting. LOVE is a "bad" thing in this business.

 

I also have friends living in HK and doing business in China. He told me it is VERY easy to get a girl in China (and he has done so many times, now he is married, but i don't know if he has done it after marriage .. hard to imagine not though).

 

And i heard that a MAJORITY of businessmen in China has mistresses, and their wives essentially accept the fact, as long as they don't let it interfere with their family life too much.

 

The point is that given the prevalent culture, and the huge temptation of having a string of young gfs, the practice is almost irresistible, and the fact that MOST business men (i heard is like 90+% of taiwanese businessmen do it in China) do it is proof.

 

This says a lot about human nature. The only reason it is frowned upon here is because of historical cultural reasons. I tend now to believe the statistics that 70+ people would cheat if they would never get caught.

 

Better yet .. they WONT CARE if they get caught.

[nyrias2]

 

 

 

It's all about the mighty dollar.

 

Not all ... the article did say SOME ernai fall in love although they are much worse off than the ones who only go for the money.

[nyrias2]

I think women are worth more than selling their companionship to the highest married guy.

 

Apparently millions of ernai disagree succinctly by their actions.

 

BTW, i would say it is VERY difficult to resist for men, particularly when it is open and there is no bad consequences for them.

[Owl]

Here's my thought.

 

If the wife IS AWARE AND AGREED TO THE SITUATION...then I'd agree that there's no ground for anyone to be upset by the sitaution, right?

 

Same with the idea of "second wives" in general. If both wives are aware and agree with the situation...there's no deception, no violation of trust...and no reason to be hurt or angry.

 

If the situation can start and remain as one that all parties are happy with...there's no harm. No problem...no issue.

 

The real issue is when there is deception, lying, or a violation of the agreemant made by ONE party...that's when there's a problem.

 

That's my take, as one of the "morality gestapo" here on LS.

[2long]

I wonder if there's an "immorality gestapo"?

 

LOL!

[Spark1111]

“the ones who do it solely for money – they’re like, ‘You can use my body for sex and I’ll use your money and apartment and car for a luxurious life.’ Then there’s the other kind, who love the money but also love the man. They get left with nothing.”

 

This is even more interesting. LOVE is a "bad" thing in this business.

 

I also have friends living in HK and doing business in China. He told me it is VERY easy to get a girl in China (and he has done so many times, now he is married, but i don't know if he has done it after marriage .. hard to imagine not though).

 

And i heard that a MAJORITY of businessmen in China has mistresses, and their wives essentially accept the fact, as long as they don't let it interfere with their family life too much.

 

The point is that given the prevalent culture, and the huge temptation of having a string of young gfs, the practice is almost irresistible, and the fact that MOST business men (i heard is like 90+% of taiwanese businessmen do it in China) do it is proof.

 

This says a lot about human nature. The only reason it is frowned upon here is because of historical cultural reasons. I tend now to believe the statistics that 70+ people would cheat if they would never get caught.

 

Better yet .. they WONT CARE if they get caught.

 

Ahhh, prostitution, the world's oldest profession.

 

No surprise here. High-paid escort as status symbol in newly burgeoning capitalist society. No surprise there either.

 

In about 30 years, they will catch up to other modern, westernized and fully educated civilizations to experience wives, successful in their own right, cheating with handsome, younger men they "keep" in luxury.

 

It's always a choice about what you, the individual, want in your relationships.

 

It always has been.

[Sh0t]

I wonder if the inverse, one woman with many suitors, is also extremely common there.

 

How does an article like this jive with China's growing gender imbalance problems? If the rich men are taking multiple women, the poorer Chinese men are going to be in even WORSE straits.

[sadcalifornian]

I think there are 3 main factors influencing male/female dynamics: money, sex, and love. We have to accept the fact that women have evolved to sell themselves for money(financial security). Yes, at one extreme, this shows as an act of prostitution, but not always. When the society like China now has such fast pace of modernization, yet with huge wealth gap between classes and regions, many men just cannot afford to marry. If you go to rural areas, man/women ratio is ridiculous. Most young women have left to the big cities to make money. So, while rural areas lack women, the metropolitan area are overloaded with young women who will do anything for money.

 

Also, the living standard in the big cities is so high and expensive, the only way for these young girls to survive is by selling their youth to any men with capacity to help them out financially. The female staff in China told me this. Most girls living alone in big cities have to do this to survive until they find a suitable mate. So, although there are more women than men overall, if you look at the ratio of available single women vs. men with enough money to support family comfortably, it is extremely lopsided. The country just cannot maintain the guise of monogamy at some point. The pressure is just too much, it seems. It is a polygamous society if you look deep inside.

 

Even in USA, if the downslide of economy continues on, you will see the pressure start to build up to push for polygamous society, where women married to rich men just have to accept that their men are providing for another one or multiple other women on the side as concubines. And, as long as they are assured of the position as his main wife, they have to find solace in that.

 

Well, an interesting mix of thought is try throwing in all this the idea of EA vs. PA. In an environment such as this, the wives surely will be more fearful of their husband's EA more than PA, which is another topic.

Edited September 27, 2011 by sadcalifornian

[nyrias2]

It makes one wonder though if it really is accepted by the wives. They may be aware it is common place but may think oh no not my hubby. Also, it doesn't sound like it is as much the chinese men doing the fooling around but the foreign business men who have no chance of getting caught.

 

I didn't see any of the wives interviewed in this article.

 

Actually it is chinese men mostly doing the fooling around. However, we are talking about men from Taiwan & Hong Kong .. still chinese, but still "foreign" to the mainlanders.

 

And for the HKers & Taiwanese .. there is no chance for them to be caught.

[nyrias2]

Here's my thought.

 

If the wife IS AWARE AND AGREED TO THE SITUATION...then I'd agree that there's no ground for anyone to be upset by the sitaution, right?

 

Same with the idea of "second wives" in general. If both wives are aware and agree with the situation...there's no deception, no violation of trust...and no reason to be hurt or angry.

 

If the situation can start and remain as one that all parties are happy with...there's no harm. No problem...no issue.

 

The real issue is when there is deception, lying, or a violation of the agreemant made by ONE party...that's when there's a problem.

 

That's my take, as one of the "morality gestapo" here on LS.

 

My impression is that the wives usually reluctantly accept the situation. I don't think the husband will tell details to their wives, even if they do not actively hide the fact, when they are asked.

 

In particular, if the husband keeps denying, there is really nothing the wife can do and i highly doubt wives will leave (unlike here) if the husband refuses to answer some questions.

[nyrias2]

Well, an interesting mix of thought is try throwing in all this the idea of EA vs. PA. In an environment such as this, the wives surely will be more fearful of their husband's EA more than PA, which is another topic.

 

I have had friends told me that some chinese wife would accept that fact that her husband will have ONS, or use a call girl if she is not around. It is so prevalent that making a fuss over it will surely end up with no husband.

 

As long as there is no relationship (i.e. no contest to the wealth of the husband), it is fine.

[nyrias2]

I wonder if the inverse, one woman with many suitors, is also extremely common there.

 

How does an article like this jive with China's growing gender imbalance problems? If the rich men are taking multiple women, the poorer Chinese men are going to be in even WORSE straits.

 

I think it is. I know of popular chinese girls with MANY guys chasing after. Now, it is not clear that most girls will sleep around but stringing MULTIPLE guys around is quite common. In fact, there is even a term for it .. KONG GIRL .. meaning a very materialistic girl who would just string guys around for gifts & money.

 

And yes, i also heard that it is VERY difficult to find wives for the economically disadvantaged guys in rural areas.

[Owl]

My impression is that the wives usually reluctantly accept the situation. I don't think the husband will tell details to their wives, even if they do not actively hide the fact, when they are asked.

 

In particular, if the husband keeps denying, there is really nothing the wife can do and i highly doubt wives will leave (unlike here) if the husband refuses to answer some questions.

 

So basically the wives have no choice but to accept something that they probably don't like, wouldn't choose, and otherwise wouldn't agree to if they actually had a choice?

 

 

How is that a "good thing" in any fashion? I can't see that as any kind of "improvement" over western perceptions or actions...this doesn't seem like any kind of positive behavior we should consider emulating in any fashion.

 

Doesn't sound like a "solution" to infidelity and how it's perceived to me.

[sadcalifornian]

So basically the wives have no choice but to accept something that they probably don't like, wouldn't choose, and otherwise wouldn't agree to if they actually had a choice?

 

 

How is that a "good thing" in any fashion? I can't see that as any kind of "improvement" over western perceptions or actions...this doesn't seem like any kind of positive behavior we should consider emulating in any fashion.

 

Doesn't sound like a "solution" to infidelity and how it's perceived to me.

 

Just because this is happening in China, it is not limited to Asian culture. Western culture traditionally was just the same if not worse. The equality between man and woman in recent era was only achieved when the economic power was made somewhat even and there is "enough" to go around for everyone. You have to realize "survival" precedes all moral values and the concept of "fairness" one may conjure up.

 

If there is a pretty girl who can string along multiple guys, the girl can enjoy the unlimited attention and what else while it lasts, but one thing she will never get is the security of exclusive relationship where she can have a family to raise her offsprings which will take nearly 20 years of dedication. You throw on top of that the economic disadvantage of being woman, and you will see why those women may feel no choice but to look the other way when she suspects her H fool around or keep mistresses on the side. I know it is sad, but it's the reality. And, why those mistresses want to be mistresses? In most cases, she cannot find qualified single man just for herself. They either settle with a poor man and suffer together or settle in such degrading role but live somewhat comfortable.

 

The power distribution between man and woman even in this country has been achieved through equal education and the laws to protect equal treatment at work, and also the law governing alimony and child support, which makes it difficult for man to D. With this, women nowadays can exert enough power over their men to demand equal and monogamous relationship. But, let's say, the economy goes really really bad, and there are only handful of men out there who can provide comfortable living to women, I guarantee you that the pressure immediately will start building up toward polygamous society.

 

And, another interesting notion to consider is, when man and woman are financially completely equal, many women would still complain not being able to find a suitable men to marry. The reason behind it is that women instinctively tend to seek men who are financially better than them, while men often have no problem downgrading to marry woman of lesser financial capability. As the result, even with equal share of wealth and power, the desirable women tend to outnumber the desirable men, as the less financially capable men tend to be seen undesirable and they are not given much consideration. Like it or not, this is just the reality of nature that we don't have much control over.

Edited September 29, 2011 by sadcalifornian

[Owl]

Fair enough...my point was that if you look at this within the context of the original post:

 

Infidelity is not always shunned by society, and love is not the basis for marriage. Fun read!

 

 

It doesn't add up. The "society" may not shun infidelity...but clearly the wives aren't happy with the situation...they're simply forced to accept it moreso than women in most western cultures are.

 

This still doesn't paint the happy-go-lucky, no strings attached society that doesn't set relationship expectations that the OP seems to value.

[sadcalifornian]

Fair enough...my point was that if you look at this within the context of the original post:

 

 

 

 

It doesn't add up. The "society" may not shun infidelity...but clearly the wives aren't happy with the situation...they're simply forced to accept it moreso than women in most western cultures are.

 

This still doesn't paint the happy-go-lucky, no strings attached society that doesn't set relationship expectations that the OP seems to value.

 

I totally agree that the quoted statement is wrong and not true. I don't think there is any society that wouldn't shun "infidelity". As far as I know, even in China, infidelity is something considered immoral and something to be scrutinized over. It's just the pressure coming from the incredible gap between the rich men and desperate women over there, people just seem de-sensitized on such matter. If a woman married a rich man to provide family life for her, she would consider herself fortunate and would be willing to put up with her H's occasional affairs. And, of course, they are not happy about it, but they consider it a small price to pay being married to a rich men. But, if the man is not worth much, then I am sure the situation would not be so one-sided even in China.

[nyrias2]

So basically the wives have no choice but to accept something that they probably don't like, wouldn't choose, and otherwise wouldn't agree to if they actually had a choice?

 

 

How is that a "good thing" in any fashion? I can't see that as any kind of "improvement" over western perceptions or actions...this doesn't seem like any kind of positive behavior we should consider emulating in any fashion.

 

Doesn't sound like a "solution" to infidelity and how it's perceived to me.

 

 

Is there anyone saying it is a "good thing"?

 

However, it is an interesting social phenomenon. That is, the attitude towards infidelity can be VERY different in a different culture. That points to the fact that there is NOTHING inherent or fundamental about OUR views (or YOUR views) of infidelity.

 

These views are obviously shaped by social forces.

[nyrias2]

Fair enough...my point was that if you look at this within the context of the original post:

 

 

 

 

It doesn't add up. The "society" may not shun infidelity...but clearly the wives aren't happy with the situation...they're simply forced to accept it moreso than women in most western cultures are.

 

This still doesn't paint the happy-go-lucky, no strings attached society that doesn't set relationship expectations that the OP seems to value.

 

No. You don't get what I am trying to do with this post. It is to show a DIFFERENT view of infidelity and comment on the interesting SOCIAL PHENOMENON.

 

It is not an endorsement of any view (yours NOR theirs).

 

"Fun" refers to the fun in READING about it, not PARTICIPATING in it.

[nyrias2]

I totally agree that the quoted statement is wrong and not true. I don't think there is any society that wouldn't shun "infidelity". As far as I know, even in China, infidelity is something considered immoral and something to be scrutinized over. It's just the pressure coming from the incredible gap between the rich men and desperate women over there, people just seem de-sensitized on such matter. If a woman married a rich man to provide family life for her, she would consider herself fortunate and would be willing to put up with her H's occasional affairs. And, of course, they are not happy about it, but they consider it a small price to pay being married to a rich men. But, if the man is not worth much, then I am sure the situation would not be so one-sided even in China.

 

How is the statement not true? If the practice is accepted to the point of bringing mistresses to BUSINESS MEETINGS, it is certainly NOT shunned.

 

You may be pointing out the reason of WHY ... but anyway you cut it, it is an semi-openly accepted practice, which is exactly the OPPOSITE of shunning.

[sadcalifornian]

How is the statement not true? If the practice is accepted to the point of bringing mistresses to BUSINESS MEETINGS, it is certainly NOT shunned.

 

You may be pointing out the reason of WHY ... but anyway you cut it, it is an semi-openly accepted practice, which is exactly the OPPOSITE of shunning.

 

Well, it's a degree of shunning, so to speak, from your perspective, I guess. But, it's like this. Years ago, the area I live has major prostitution problem for years. People just looked the other way as the problem was too broad and deep for police to do anything about it. After all, it's not like they were hurting anyone. That does not mean prostitution is legal in California like Nevada, for example. It was something to shun but people just did not bother to fix it so much. At some point, however, the police set a goal to clean up the street and they put a major major effort to get rid of all the street girls from the area. So, now the problem is minimal.

 

Just because at one point there were these girls walking all over the street and police did not act on them does not mean we did not "shun" the prostitution. People just lived with it, although they did not like it. The infidelity issue in China now is pretty much the same thing. People there do seem to see it as a problem, but the problem is so wide spread and like I said the socio-economic pressure is there to encourage such behavior that people just look the other way for now. That does not mean they think infidelity is OK by any means. They just don't have the manpower or the system to root out the problem, that's all. Pretty much same as the prostitution problem we had years ago when the police just did not know how to tackle the problem until they finally managed to secure enough budget and manpower to handle it effectively.

 

So, you can say the state such as Nevada does not "shun" the prostitution as they embrace it as a legal activity, but my state, California, always shunned such activity even though sometimes they were just ineffective dealing with it.

[Owl]

No. You don't get what I am trying to do with this post. It is to show a DIFFERENT view of infidelity and comment on the interesting SOCIAL PHENOMENON.

 

It is not an endorsement of any view (yours NOR theirs).

 

"Fun" refers to the fun in READING about it, not PARTICIPATING in it.

 

I don't get how it's different.

 

The wives are forced to accept the situation, without any power or choice in the matter.

 

I don't see how the social view is actually any different.

 

Playah's have been "socially accepted" in the U.S. too.

 

Not really any different from what I see.