Civility

[carhill]

Here's the direct link to the 'Terms of Use'. This link is also found within the Community Guidelines.

[MissBee]

You know, I really don't see why this is such a big deal. This is the way it is on ANY internet forum. There are rules and guidelines, and if you sign up to be a member, you (general you) are expected to agree and be bound to the guidelines. If you don't agree with the guidelines, don't sign up. There are other sites that more closely align with your values.

 

What's the big deal?

It seems there is far too much internalizing on this particular board, certainly more than I have viewed on the other LS boards. I have to wonder why that is.

 

I would agree.

 

That is what it boils down to.

 

On no other board have I seen people making such threads and quite frankly only certain kinds of people make these threads.It's not across the board that various people from various sides of the spectrum make such types of threads/topics/complaints...only a certain group of people do it...and then it makes you wonder why, as well as, do these complaints have any validity or are they a product of hypersensitivity and internalization?

 

SMO...you said you made a request: request not granted. People are not going to cater to what you think civil posts are and certainly not what you think stating the obvious is. I do apologize, but I believe that sums up the majority of the responses. Further discussion is going to continue being the same answer: TOS trumps individuals' requests. That's all. Someone has to have the final say and it so happens that Loveshack does and the final say is the TOS. That's really all. There is nothing else to argue about. All other outside requests from you, me or anyone else are extraneous.

[jthorne]

I completely agree, which is why I am opposed to a small number of posters who feel the need to come here to push their own agenda and disrupt the intended purpose of this section of LS.

This is a circular argument.

 

Regardless, I think if the owners of this forum shared your opposition, they would take action to correct it.

[Owl]

I completely agree, which is why I am opposed to a small number of posters who feel the need to come here to push their own agenda and disrupt the intended purpose of this section of LS.

 

Then report them if their actions violate the TOS/TOU. Realistically, that's your only viable method for dealing with that situation.

[whichwayisup]

I completely agree, which is why I am opposed to a small number of posters who feel the need to come here to push their own agenda and disrupt the intended purpose of this section of LS.

 

You don't think most around here are sick of it too? Do you remember how many threads and discussions there were, what is support, how to give it, what to say, what not to say etc..etc? Infact, some got fed up and created their own forum so they could have the type of support they felt they needed.

 

LS is unique, like it or not, agree or not, support and advice is given by tons of people, some in affairs, some out of affairs and some not part of the A triangle. Just like in off line life, a person walks into a room full of 300 people, tells their story, asks for advice, you're (general you) gonna get ALL kinds. Accept what suits you (general you) best and focus on that. To react and get pissy, pick apart other repliers replys IS what causes much of the in fighting. If people could just focus on the PERSON who created the thread and not other repliers then LS would run a bit more smoothly. Just my 2 cents.

[MissBee]

This is a circular argument.

 

Regardless, I think if the owners of this forum shared your opposition, they would take action to correct it.

 

Yepp...

 

As stated, LS has been the way it has been for as long as it has been. I have read a lot of threads going back to the very first page and overtime it has remained more or less the same. Therefore, if the owners felt the board's purpose was derailed I'm sure in all those years something would have been done. But obviously it hasn't....sooo the problem lies then with those who come to LS and find it how it is and continue to try to get something else out of it.

 

Regardless of what the tag line states....every board, every institution etc in society has an ethos about it and it's own organic nature that it takes on. If the tag line doesn't match the ethos, I have no clue why I would keep bringing it up instead of saying "Oh, it's not what I thought. Bye" I don't get that But in any case, I accept this board for what it is and have no complaints sooo I leave the work of trying to reinvent the wheel to others...

 

Maybe the energy spent into reinventing LS is some sort of deflected use of energy. A friend of mine, every time she has a paper to write, she instead goes and cleans her entire house, do laundry and everything but do that paper. She rationalizes that well she's not actually wasting time as all the stuff she is doing are things that need to be done....ignoring the fact that they don't need to be done at that minute. Doing everything else refocuses her energy on unimportant tasks versus focusing on the actual point...so perhaps these types of threads come from a similar need to deflect and use energy on essentially irrelevant things so as to avoid other more pertinent things...since again only certain folks seem to always be the ones so worried about the "integrity of LS".

Edited September 27, 2011 by MissBee

[serial muse]

Then report them if their actions violate the TOS/TOU. Realistically, that's your only viable method for dealing with that situation.

 

And this is absolutely the mods' preferred way of dealing with these kinds of violations. I've been around LS long enough that at this point I can't even remember if this level of acrimony on the OW/OM board is out of the norm or just the normal ebb and flow. My sense is that some comments (like the "trash" comment) that would normally be dealt with summarily are sliding by more often than they used to. And that is likely because there has been only one mod for a while now, and he was overworked.

 

Which is why ALERTING mods to violations is so essential. They aren't going to see it unless you alert them to it. Do so.

 

The level of moderation may change going forward; but, even if it doesn't, the mods still DO respond to reporting, and that is how they have always said they would prefer to deal with violations of the TOS. They do NOT want people to decide whether it's OK to respond in kind, based on the stated goals of the forum, perceptions of fairness, or anything else. It all simply becomes too subjective. That is why the TOS exists at all.

 

Seriously, these kinds of threads will always pop up on LS, I know, because relationship issues involve a lot of emotion and tension...but they will also always, always come to the same thing: Report, and Ignore.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I seem to have boggled some minds with what I thought was a simple request.

 

OP,

 

You have "boggled" no minds. Sorry.

 

You have promoted no further "civility" nor influenced even one poster, I bet. You're preaching to the choir.

 

You have, however annoyed many people, and presented yourself as a rather pompous guy.

 

If I started an entire thread with a "request" of every other poster here to conform to my personal standards of how and what they should be posting, based upon my own very amorphous concept of "civility" (which would boil down to this: civil = posts that agree with and support MY posts, with language that is not challenging in any way, even if they are snarky towards others), I too would annoy the great majority of people who are here on LS.

 

You also use very condescending language and constructs (like saying minds are "boggled" because people are not following your directive, and outlining the purposes of the different fora, which all of us can easily read for ourselves). That does annoy others, and yet, does not promote your image as being an individual somehow more intelligent or more gifted with social acumen than the general population here.

 

Nope. It's not working.

 

Bottom line is, you are not in any position to "request" that the rest of us post or do not post, or to instruct us on how we ought to post. You're just some guy. You are free to make the request, of course. You're just preaching to the choir, though. The affair cheerleaders will continue to cheer. Those who will NEVER support the continuance of affairs will continue to naysay, some more gently than others, and those who are perceptive enough to discern what will be truly helpful to a poster in crisis will continue to offer that.

 

Maybe the fact that you are influencing nobody is mind boggling to YOU.

 

Personally, I find your stance annoying and conceited, just as I would if I were in a room full of people where differing conversations and debates were going on, some of them getting heated, and a person full of self-importance leapt upon a table to get control of all the talkers and how they spoke. Fully believing that he would succeed!

 

I'd ignore him.

 

On the other hand, if someone is being spoken to in a very mean spirited way, (for example, if you called a specific poster a rabid wolf rather than passive-aggressively referring to a group of posters here who don't cheerlead for you a "pack of rabid wolves," I would find it entirely appropriate for a civil minded member to step in and call you on it. And for a report to the mods to be made.

 

(Do we even have mods?)

 

Honestly, dude.

 

If you want to be forum police, go to the dating board. They need it a lot more than the folks here do.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Mme. Chaucer

[NoIDidn't]

LOL, SMO.

 

You accuse me of belaboring a point, and yet you keep belaboring your own point.

 

And breaking it.

 

Sure, you have nothing further to say about it because you can't defend your obviously biased position. In truth, I'm not interested in changing your biased opinion and claims that OW/OM can posts all the swipes they want to the posters they feel deserve them. I was asking serious questions. It would have been nice if you had shown that you were able to answer the questions without attacking me. I didn't attack you in any way.

 

Until you get past your own hypocrisy on this issue, you'll only get agreement from similarly minded hypocritical posters.

 

Don't worry, unless this thread becomes more interesting or someone makes another noteworthy point, I won't waste your time or my own posting in it.

[MissBee]

OP,

 

You have "boggled" no minds. Sorry.

 

You have promoted no further "civility" nor influenced even one poster, I bet. You're preaching to the choir.

You have, however annoyed many people, and presented yourself as a rather pompous guy.

If I started an entire thread with a "request" of every other poster here to conform to my personal standards of how and what they should be posting, based upon my own very amorphous concept of "civility" (which would boil down to this: civil = posts that agree with and support MY posts, with language that is not challenging in any way, even if they are snarky towards others), I too would annoy the great majority of people who are here on LS.

 

You also use very condescending language and constructs (like saying minds are "boggled" because people are not following your directive, and outlining the purposes of the different fora, which all of us can easily read for ourselves). That does annoy others, and yet, does not promote your image as being an individual somehow more intelligent or more gifted with social acumen than the general population here.

 

Nope. It's not working.

 

Bottom line is, you are not in any position to "request" that the rest of us post or do not post, or to instruct us on how we ought to post. You're just some guy. You are free to make the request, of course. You're just preaching to the choir, though. The affair cheerleaders will continue to cheer. Those who will NEVER support the continuance of affairs will continue to naysay, some more gently than others, and those who are perceptive enough to discern what will be truly helpful to a poster in crisis will continue to offer that.

 

Maybe the fact that you are influencing nobody is mind boggling to YOU.

Personally, I find your stance annoying and conceited, just as I would if I were in a room full of people where differing conversations and debates were going on, some of them getting heated, and a person full of self-importance leapt upon a table to get control of all the talkers and how they spoke. Fully believing that he would succeed!

 

I'd ignore him.

 

On the other hand, if someone is being spoken to in a very mean spirited way, (for example, if you called a specific poster a rabid wolf rather than passive-aggressively referring to a group of posters here who don't cheerlead for you a "pack of rabid wolves," I would find it entirely appropriate for a civil minded member to step in and call you on it. And for a report to the mods to be made.

 

(Do we even have mods?)

 

Honestly, dude.

 

If you want to be forum police, go to the dating board. They need it a lot more than the folks here do.

 

 

I have to agree...

 

I wasn't quite sure how to express that sentiment of why the whole matter seemed off-putting...but that sums it up quite nicely.

 

Unfortunately I know too many people like that IRL and like you perfectly explained, nobody likes that type of thing and most people do not respond well to it. However, said person who has appointed him or herself to that role NEVER understands why everyone else finds them exasperating.

[fooled once]

It's obvious you have a lowly opinion of some posters here as calling people rabid wolves is quite inflammatory. Which is an example of the kind of remarks that you are trying to discourage others from. So, I don't get your point when you are doing the very thing that you are complaining about.

 

Who is in this PACK of rabid wolves?

 

What truth are you referring to?

 

Name-calling isn't "truth". Saying people deserve to have jabs thrown their way is not "truth".

 

What is the "truth" that you are referring to?

 

Agree. Name calling isn't a "truth" and calling people "rabid wolves" isn't very civil

 

No...you've suggested that they should post in what YOU deem is a civil manner.

 

Your view of civility (and mine for that matter) is irrelevent. On this internet forum, it's the view of the owner/moderator as outlined in the TOS that counts.

 

Simply put, I think it's this way because there is a handful of posters who have come to LS and decided that they want to convert/change the forum to what they think it should be, rather than seek a forum that fits their wants, or create their own forum that does so.

 

The options are clear. Either accept the forum "as is", use the tools provided via the TOS and the moderator to enforce THE OWNER'S vision of what this forum is supposed to be...or find another forum that suits your desires more closely.

 

Owl, I vote for you for PRESIDENT!!!

 

I completely agree, which is why I am opposed to a small number of posters who feel the need to come here to push their own agenda and disrupt the intended purpose of this section of LS.

 

And who are these small number of posters you keep complaining about?

 

How is voicing their OPINION pushing their own agenda? What is their agenda? If you are not a part of the pack, how do you know their agenda?

 

Support comes in various forms and in various tones.

 

Two choices - deal with it or not. Not that hard.

[SoMovinOn]

On no other board have I seen people making such threads...

 

Really? I have to wonder if that is because of limited experience or just luck. I've seen discussion on having keeping discussions civil going all the way back to dial up modems and BBS's (Bulletin Boards). I've seen it in musicians forums, car forums, motorcycle forums, art forums... pretty much any topic you can imagine.

 

In each case, it is almost always brought up as the result of a single poster, or a very few posters, who think they have a "right" to be rude.

 

 

... and quite frankly only certain kinds of people make these threads.

 

I imagine it's almost always initiated by someone like me, who has a low tolerance for rude people.

 

 

SMO...you said you made a request: request not granted.

 

That's fine with me. I never said you, or anyone else, *couldn't* continue to be rude, mean, or uncivil. If you prefer to do so, feel free.

 

 

There is nothing else to argue about.

 

More importantly, there never was anything to argue about. Unfortunately, it is taking some people 14 pages of posts to figure that out.

[SoMovinOn]

If people could just focus on the PERSON who created the thread and not other repliers then LS would run a bit more smoothly. Just my 2 cents.

 

I agree. Somewhere in one of my first few responses in this thread, as I was thinking everything through, I came to that very conclusion - that the best way to disarm those who would choose to be disruptive would be to simply ignore them.

[SoMovinOn]

Nope. It's not working.

 

In some cases, that is more than obvious.

[Mme. Chaucer]

In some cases, that is more than obvious.

 

So, you've reconsidered your assertion that your call for "civility" was heeded by the rabid wolves?

 

That's good, because I was thinking that you were going to have to go shopping soon for a much, much larger chapeau!

[SoMovinOn]

If I started an entire thread with a "request" of every other poster here to conform to my personal standards of how and what they should be posting, based upon my own very amorphous concept of "civility" (which would boil down to this: civil = posts that agree with and support MY posts, with language that is not challenging in any way, even if they are snarky towards others), I too would annoy the great majority of people who are here on LS.

 

As would be expected. I suppose it would be best to start with helping people understand civility has nothing to do with whether or not people agree with you. Thankfully, I did not make the error of requesting everyone here conform to my standards, and I will keep your advice in mind should I ever feel compelled to do so in the future.

 

 

Bottom line is, you are not in any position to "request" that the rest of us post or do not post, or to instruct us on how we ought to post. You're just some guy. You are free to make the request, of course.

 

Wait... am I free to make the request or am I not in a position to make such a request?

 

If I am not in a position to request how others ought to post, how might I attain that position, as you clearly have (as you are here instructing me on how I ought to post, right?)

 

Maybe the fact that you are influencing nobody is mind boggling to YOU.

 

It would most assuredly be mind boggling to me based on the positive support both from some here in the thread and in PM's.

 

 

Personally, I find your stance annoying and conceited...

 

Not bad for someone with low self esteem, eh?

 

 

If you want to be forum police, go to the dating board.

 

Why? Have you already filled the slot here?

 

Seriously dude! Did you really just spend multiple paragraphs telling me how you think I should post in an effort to convince me that no user is in a position to tell anyone how to post?

[SoMovinOn]

Don't worry' date=' unless this thread becomes more interesting or someone makes another noteworthy point, I won't waste your time or my own posting in it.[/quote']

 

Thank you.

[SoMovinOn]

So, you've reconsidered your assertion that your call for "civility" was heeded by the rabid wolves?

 

Not. It's clear asking people to be civil in their discussions is not working with some people.

 

... but then, I had no expectation it would.

[Mme. Chaucer]

People here ARE being civil, and have been civil. They / we / I just have not followed your directives, nor appreciated your attempts at a patronizing, instructional tone.

 

Example:

 

I suppose it would be best to start with helping people understand civility has nothing to do with whether or not people agree with you

.

 

I'm pretty sure that you really don't think that the articulate, intelligent population here really needs you to "help" them / us to understand the meaning of civility.

 

YOU are the person who excused weak, mean spirited and passive-agressive needling due to your own personal "bias" being aligned with that posters'.

 

Wait... am I free to make the request or am I not in a position to make such a request?

 

Wait … do you get the difference between being free to post what and how you like (within the TOS / TOU whatever) and maybe being out of line in doing so?

 

I know you do.

 

 

You are very contradictory, and give the impression that you are ready to change your position constantly in order to feel that you have the upper hand in an argument or discussion, and to justify anything and everything you choose to say or do. So there is no point, really, in discussing with you.

[donnamaybe]

 

I have to agree...

 

I wasn't quite sure how to express that sentiment of why the whole matter seemed off-putting...but that sums it up quite nicely.

 

I agree as well. And the notion that one person gets to decide when it is proper to be rude is ridiculous.

[SoMovinOn]

I'm pretty sure that you really don't think that the articulate, intelligent population here really needs you to "help" them / us to understand the meaning of civility.

 

Of course not. That would be ridiculous. The clarification was provided for those who clearly indicated a lack of understanding of the term.

 

 

So there is no point, really, in discussing with you.

 

Well, I appreciate you stopping by and sharing your thoughts anyway, even if you didn't have a point.

[SoMovinOn]

And the notion that one person gets to decide when it is proper to be rude is ridiculous.

 

I agree. Feel free to continue to be rude whenever you feel it's proper for you.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Of course not. That would be ridiculous. The clarification was provided for those who clearly indicated a lack of understanding of the term.

 

That would be … yourself?

[woinlove]

Not. It's clear asking people to be civil in their discussions is not working with some people.

 

... but then, I had no expectation it would.

 

Can you name anyone you feel has become more civil because of something you posted? I don't think so. Let's take you for example. As noted previously, you sometimes take jabs at other posters. However, in this thread, you appear to have ramped that up. If you want people to be more civil, leading by example would be good.

[Love Me Tender]

 

And the "who find themselves" is intriguing. While a few OW/OM are duped and then find themselves unwittingly involved with a committed partner, most OW/OM posting here actually chose to be and/or choose to continue to be with a committed partner. However, I doubt the forum meant to focus only on those who thought they were with a single person and found otherwise. Still, no one would describe a marriage forum "for those who find themselves married" unless they wanted to mainly attract the few who wake up with a killer headache and a wedding band they don't remember getting.

 

You are taking the description far too literally, what they mean is it doesn't matter how they ended up in an affair just that they are in one.