Civility

[SoMovinOn]

After reading 113 responses, I can't say I was surprised by any of them

 

I carefully worded my original post to make it clear I wasn't telling anyone what they can or can't post, but rather, simply offering some suggestions on how we might make this place a little better. Of course, in spite of that, I got the expected chorus of "You can't tell us what to do" ... I didn't, and I won't. I suggested we all be civil, and allowed there would still be some who would choose not to. If you don't want to be civil in your responses, you don't have to, and I won't tell you you'll have to.

 

As for it being up to the moderators to make LS whatever it is or isn't, via the TOS and their policing and enforcing of it. That is a daunting task for anyone. A forum doesn't exist for the mods and the TOS. The users ultimately define the forum. Without the users, there is no forum. So, yes, *we* can choose to make this place a bit more civil.

 

As I have already copped to in a previous post, for those of you who took the time to point out my own brutality at times, you're right. I am as guilty as anyone else. ... but here's the kicker ... I'm not going to change that. I will be civil in every one of my posts, as I always am, except when I am responding to someones rude, inflammatory, unnecessary brutal, etc. post. I call a spade a spade and if you want to dish it out, I have no problem taking you up on the challenge. ... and I have no problem with anyone doing the same to me.

 

Overall ... nice that I got people talking and thinking about this.

 

Feel free to continue.

[tami-chan]

Some people just don't respect the purpose of this particular forum...so tagline be damned -that's the attitude. After all this IS a public forum, and frequented by people who "represent" the people who have hurt them. So go ahead be "free"- let loose, forget all civility.... Feel better about yourself :rolleyes:

[Mme. Chaucer]

Some people just don't respect the purpose of this particular forum...so tagline be damned -that's the attitude. After all this IS a public forum, and frequented by people who "represent" the people who have hurt them. So go ahead be "free"- let loose, forget all civility.... Feel better about yourself :rolleyes:

 

Oh, ouch!

 

Here is a fine example of a post that is not quite civil - and tami-chan seems to come out of nowhere just to deliver this weak little jab.

 

Tagline be damned, indeed ... was this post really seeking support or discussion about "finding yourself involved" (love that!) with a committed partner?

 

Did that make you feel better about YOURself? :rolleyes:

 

For the record, some of us don't have problems here because you "represent the people who have hurt" us. Some of us have walked where you are walking and ended up in a bad place, and feel strongly about our experiences. Some of us are moved to speak up against boastful "celebrating" based upon lying and at others' expense.

 

Anyway, your post nicely illustrates that civility or respecting the stated purpose of this forum are not interests of yours. So I guess you're in favor of the free-for-all.

[tami-chan]

Oh, ouch!

 

Here is a fine example of a post that is not quite civil - and tami-chan seems to come out of nowhere just to deliver this weak little jab.

 

I am sorry I am not a "regular". 'Didn't know that was required.

 

Tagline be damned, indeed ... was this post really seeking support or discussion about "finding yourself involved" (love that!) with a committed partner?e

 

ahm...psst...I think I am on topic on this thread...is that ok?

 

Did that make you feel better about YOURself? :rolleyes:

.

Indifferent. If I get my fix here, I would be here everyday.

 

For the record, some of us don't have problems here because you "represent the people who have hurt" us.

 

Actually, my story is unlike the usual...so no, I do not represent anybody.

 

Some of us have walked where you are walking and ended up in a bad place, and feel strongly about our experiences. Some of us are moved....

 

Where I am "walking"? LOL...you are assuming a lot...

 

Anyway, your post nicely illustrates that civility or respecting the stated purpose of this forum are not interests of yours. So I guess in favor of the free-for-all.

 

My post illustrates the truth..and you seem really defensive about it. Don't know your story..or at least don't remember..but if you are here because

you are "moved" to change people's choices, by all means---be moved ...

[SoMovinOn]

Oh, ouch!

 

Here is a fine example of a post that is not quite civil - and tami-chan seems to come out of nowhere just to deliver this weak little jab.

 

Actually, it was a rather potent jab, and, perfectly fitting for this particular discussion. Tami is a long time forum member, so, hardly came out of nowhere. Saw a thread of interest and responded, appropriately. Fitting with my latest response here where I said I was willing to put aside civility to respond in kind to a post deserving of such a response.

 

Tami's comments nailed exactly the type of attitude I am talking about - the "I have a RIGHT to be rude" attitude.

[seren]

It is possible to disagree with a POV and still be civil, however, most discussion type threads - as opposed to the advice and support threads, can quickly degenerate into name calling, at times it is understandable as the topic is generic and not related to a personal question. Take what you need and leave the rest as has been said, people come here at various points of the A journey and in various roles, so it is again perhaps, understandable if there are times things get heated - that's life unfortunately. I am of the mind that if I wanted to go to a BS forum that was damming and vitrolic, then there are plenty of those. From one extreme to another, similarly plenty of OW/OM sites that offer the more exclusive accepting A, type forums too. I visit LS because it is what it is and offers balance.

 

The thing I hate are sock puppets, not them themselves, I happen to like a few of them, but their thinly disguised alter egos never quite shake off who they have posted as previously. I also find they pop up now and again to create disharmony and the board goes shaky for a while. That I do not understand, if you have something to say, have the balls to say it and not hide behind being someone else, just my opinion.

 

Thing is, after an A, there will always be someone who hurts, that they lash out at posts that trigger or mirror their situation is inevitable, possibly understandable. After all, we all, at one time, have been fed information that has guaranteed to keep the status quo, of course we will see it from different angles, we have lived this remember, we remember the hurt and we have been fed these, oh so predictable lines, whether we are BS, OM/OW or the WS we will have a take on it, either to 'tell' how hurtful it is or to justify why we do as we do.

 

Possible we could try to post to the person and not the role, if an OW/OM is hurt then I try to address the person hurting, if the BS is hurt I can understand that more so am able to offer more pertinent advice based upon my experience of what worked or didn't.

I hope LS doesn't change, it has over the last few months, I think, but I suspect it will roll back to what it was and what has worked for so long.

Edited September 24, 2011 by seren
spelling, tis early I need coffee

[woinlove]

I agree with all your points, Seren, and I also like the mix one has on LS and hope that part doesn't change.

[Silly_Girl]

It is possible to disagree with a POV and still be civil, however, most discussion type threads - as opposed to the advice and support threads, can quickly degenerate into name calling, at times it is understandable as the topic is generic and not related to a personal question. Take what you need and leave the rest as has been said, people come here at various points of the A journey and in various roles, so it is again perhaps, understandable if there are times things get heated - that's life unfortunately. I am of the mind that if I wanted to go to a BS forum that was damming and vitrolic, then there are plenty of those. From one extreme to another, similarly plenty of OW/OM sites that offer the more exclusive accepting A, type forums too. I visit LS because it is what it is and offers balance.

 

The thing I hate are sock puppets, not them themselves, I happen to like a few of them, but their thinly disguised alter egos never quite shake off who they have posted as previously. I also find they pop up now and again to create disharmony and the board goes shaky for a while. That I do not understand, if you have something to say, have the balls to say it and not hide behind being someone else, just my opinion.

 

That's exactly how I feel. I mean, some of the posts are funny and give me a wry smile, but essentially I'm much happier getting someone's true opinion regardless of whether I want or like it. The authenticity and sincerity really means something to me. It's like having respect for those who campaign and fight for things IRL. I can admire that even if I don't admire the tenets they are promoting.

 

Thing is, after an A, there will always be someone who hurts, that they lash out at posts that trigger or mirror their situation is inevitable, possibly understandable. After all, we all, at one time, have been fed information that has guaranteed to keep the status quo, of course we will see it from different angles, we have lived this remember, we remember the hurt and we have been fed these, oh so predictable lines, whether we are BS, OM/OW or the WS we will have a take on it, either to 'tell' how hurtful it is or to justify why we do as we do.

 

I disagree with you here, provided I've read correctly. I think you're saying we can expect people to lash out because of how very emotive and contentious the subject is. I understand without a doubt why people might feel a need to lash out at OW. But I think they should take it elsewhere. I, and several other posters here, have seen threads in other parts of LS that have riled us or intrigued us, but wanting to show respect for those participating and the fact our input may not be welcome - due to who we are/were - we've brought the same subject or points back here for discussion, for discussion by OW/OM and in the context of this particular board. Lashing out is bashing, in my view.

 

Possible we could try to post to the person and not the role, if an OW/OM is hurt then I try to address the person hurting, if the BS is hurt I can understand that more so am able to offer more pertinent advice based upon my experience of what worked or didn't.

I hope LS doesn't change, it has over the last few months, I think, but I suspect it will roll back to what it was and what has worked for so long.

 

I think you're right and these things ebb and flow.

[seren]

Thing is, after an A, there will always be someone who hurts, that they lash out at posts that trigger or mirror their situation is inevitable, possibly understandable. After all, we all, at one time, have been fed information that has guaranteed to keep the status quo, of course we will see it from different angles, we have lived this remember, we remember the hurt and we have been fed these, oh so predictable lines, whether we are BS, OM/OW or the WS we will have a take on it, either to 'tell' how hurtful it is or to justify why we do as we do.

 

I disagree with you here, provided I've read correctly. I think you're saying we can expect people to lash out because of how very emotive and contentious the subject is. I understand without a doubt why people might feel a need to lash out at OW. But I think they should take it elsewhere. I, and several other posters here, have seen threads in other parts of LS that have riled us or intrigued us, but wanting to show respect for those participating and the fact our input may not be welcome - due to who we are/were - we've brought the same subject or points back here for discussion, for discussion by OW/OM and in the context of this particular board. Lashing out is bashing, in my view.

 

Hi SG, no I don't agree that people should lash out, but I understand why they feel the need to, and this is not exclusive to OW/OM getting the flak , it works all ways, I don't think there should be an us and we, or a we stance, this isn't the Battle of the Alamo. As an example, being a BS I, naturally, might take umbrage at someone saying a BS is stupid for taking the WS back, I might take offence at the implication that I am stupid, but I understand that if the person has come from a place where they expected a WS to leave, that they would feel hurt, might think that the BS has the MP under lock or key, stops kids seeing them etc etc then their response might be that I, as a BS, was stupid for believing all this, especially if I had been fed a whole lot of 'stuff' by the WS. In this instance I can understand the OW/OM thinking it cannot be the man who has promised XY or Z, similarly many BS say the OW/OM lured the WS away, instead of laying the blame with the WS. But in the heat of the moment and the need to believe our reality, we might do this. We understand situations by imagining how we might feel, act or respond. the gut reaction when someone is raw or in pain is to lash out - maybe not acceptable, but very understandable, I usually find that over time a more balanced outlook comes through.

 

Equally as an OW/OM, I might find it ludicrous that a BS will say how the WS has changed, that the marriage was good during the A, because I would be basing my take on my experience as an OW/OM and, like most of us here, we have at one time been duped by those we love. Similarly for the BS who didn't know, was gaslighted so well they thought all was good. So while it can be hurtful as a new BS coming here in pain or an OW/OM in the same painful place, to read how 'my' reality is being questioned I might 'lash'out, for want of a better expression.

 

I dislike sock puppets as I find that most of their hit and run posts stir the pot and I do not think they add very much in the long run. I also think that expecting all sites where Infidelity is the key common denominator to have harmony always, is naive of anyone. If I wanted to have a daily pity party or a slinging rocks type interaction I would join a site where that was the ethos, LS doesn't do that and is, I think, quite unique in that if we are open to others view, experiences and opinions, we can learn and perhaps understand better. Which also helps the healing and recovery process.

 

Not to defend mud slinging by anyone, but and there is always a but, it can be quite an eye opener at times to read the same old over and over, it can shake your belief in all that you thought was, simply because you believed the one who you love and thought loved you back, followed an unwritten script, to try to understand and have empathy while in this stage takes courage and self examination, not pleasant places for anyone while they are hurt.

 

Phew ... sorry for the ramble, what I would say, is that it might be helpful for everyone if we could just step outside our situation and try to imagine where the poster is coming from. I cannot ra ra A's, but I can support anyone who is hurt and in pain and looking for support.

[SoMovinOn]

Phew ... sorry for the ramble, what I would say, is that it might be helpful for everyone if we could just step outside our situation and try to imagine where the poster is coming from. I cannot ra ra A's, but I can support anyone who is hurt and in pain and looking for support.

 

When someone is angry with you, it's a good idea to walk a mile in their shoes, because, well, then you're a mile away from them, and you have their shoes.

 

Seriously though... It's definitely an excellent idea to try to understand things from their perspective. ... but ... at the same time, understanding doesn't make everything and anything acceptable. There is a proper time and place for everything.

[SoMovinOn]

Sorry, one other thing...

 

I dislike sock puppets...

 

Lamb Chop was pretty cute, and, although I know they are not puppets, those weird looking Sock Monkey things are cool. The only place where the Sock Monkey gets a little disturbing is in that car commercial where he is hanging out with his other, oversized toy friends, and one of them looks like some sort of weird, giant, marital aid.

[seren]

Sorry, one other thing...

 

 

 

Lamb Chop was pretty cute, and, although I know they are not puppets, those weird looking Sock Monkey things are cool. The only place where the Sock Monkey gets a little disturbing is in that car commercial where he is hanging out with his other, oversized toy friends, and one of them looks like some sort of weird, giant, marital aid.

 

LOL!! Ah I seem to remember a kntting pattern in Women's Weekly for a knitted marital aid ...... and if you knew me IRL, knitting, Woman's Weekly and Seren are not often mentioned in the same hemisphere.

[His4Always]

Actually, it was a rather potent jab, and, perfectly fitting for this particular discussion. Tami is a long time forum member, so, hardly came out of nowhere. Saw a thread of interest and responded, appropriately. Fitting with my latest response here where I said I was willing to put aside civility to respond in kind to a post deserving of such a response.

 

Tami's comments nailed exactly the type of attitude I am talking about - the "I have a RIGHT to be rude" attitude.

Hi SoMovinOn,

I really like your posts, but I hope you don't mind if I take issue with this one.

 

I think it gets problematic when anyone wants civility, but accepts jabs as they feel appropriate. It becomes problematic because different people have different ideas on what a jab is, and if it was really called for. I feel that my threads were littered with several uncalled for jabs. Obviously the people that posted them felt differently. Very differently.

 

What I am trying to say is we are to be civil to each other, jabs are never appropriate.

 

Thank you for reading, and I hope I haven't offended anyone.

I hope everyone has a restful weekend.

[woinlove]

Hi SoMovinOn,

I really like your posts, but I hope you don't mind if I take issue with this one.

 

I think it gets problematic when anyone wants civility, but accepts jabs as they feel appropriate. It becomes problematic because different people have different ideas on what a jab is, and if it was really called for. I feel that my threads were littered with several uncalled for jabs. Obviously the people that posted them felt differently. Very differently.

 

What I am trying to say is we are to be civil to each other, jabs are never appropriate.

 

Thank you for reading, and I hope I haven't offended anyone.

I hope everyone has a restful weekend.

 

I agree with this point and was trying to make a similar point with my first comment about different perspectives. What SMO or someone else might see as a justified "return-fire", another might see as the first personal attack as things are ramped up and personalized. That is, there may be no agreement on "who started it". A poster jumping in for the first time with a jab may see it as justified and others see it as that poster just jumping in to take their own jab.

 

If one is offended (on your own behalf or on others' behalf) one can simply say something along the lines of 'I think that remark is not useful/is hurtful/a putdown/uncalled for/..." and go on to make whatever point one wants to make on the topic at hand if you haven't already done so. Best not to respond to a perceived jab with your own jab if you want to discourage jabs.

Edited September 24, 2011 by woinlove

[carhill]

The fact that often the "newcomer" whom the OP here seems interested in protecting is more frequently a brand new sock puppet of a well worn old timer, here just for the purpose of baiting people (and very practiced and good at it) makes it all the more tempting for me to snap.

 

Honestly. Yes, per the tos we are not allowed to call others out on their alters, but that does not change the fact that they are alters, and that most of us recognize them immediately - and that they know they are recognized!

 

One solution to this issue is for the TOU to be modified to disallow all duplicate user accounts. In the case of current ones, the most recently used would remain as active and all others locked. In most cases this can done with software searches for account commonalities. On the admin end, accounts can be notated if suspected of violations and dealt with privately. Users can report suspected violations to the moderation staff. Obviously, people skilled in IT can circumvent software controls/protocols and obscure their identity, for awhile anyway, but consistent enforcement of the TOU would eventually cause them to depart for greener pastures.

 

I'm not commenting upon the propensity for new members to be shills for existing members as I have no knowledge of nor experience with that, but rather addressing the functionality issue and how to promote a more civil and balanced and confident discourse.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Actually, it was a rather potent jab, and, perfectly fitting for this particular discussion.

 

Okay. So from your pov, it's fine to jab at people as long as the jab is "fitting" within a discussion.

 

Tami is a long time forum member, so, hardly came out of nowhere. Saw a thread of interest and responded, appropriately. Fitting with my latest response here where I said I was willing to put aside civility to respond in kind to a post deserving of such a response.

 

The reason I took issue with it - and in fact saw it as a great example of exactly the kind of thing you were advising against in your OP (wrong!) was that she has not been participating in this discussion (I know she's a longtime member - even though she says she's "not a regular") but jumped in to strike at the much maligned "bitter spouses," none of whom have even been dissing the affair celebrants in this particular thread:

 

frequented by people who "represent" the people who have hurt them

 

and then

 

Feel better about yourself

topped off by obnoxious smileys.

 

Anyway, whatever. My purpose in pointing that out was simply to illustrate an underhanded style of rude and mean posting.

 

If there's a thread "celebrating" the love between AP's and somebody (could even be me!) pops in on page 3 or so to strike a few underhanded blows at people who have affairs in general, and how they're boasting about them here to "feel better about themselves" with rolly eyes and pokey tongue - that's bad, right? Uncivil?

 

From my point of view, dismissing the expressed pain of anyone by calling them "bitter" (yes, I realize that the word "bitter" was not used in the post I'm discussing. I stand by my reading of the phrase I quoted as just a weak and sneaky new way of saying "bitter spouse." Which REALLY means, "bitter wife," in the context of this forum) and writing off their pain as simply them being "rude" and trying to "feel better about themselves" is … nasty. And, the kind of incivility I mistakenly thought you were speaking against.

 

Anyway, speaking just for myself, even though I did not like the tone of Tami's post I still believe that all posters should speak their piece in their own voice, and respond as they feel moved to. Generally, we are civilized. For the most part, it goes okay here. I intend to continue.

[SoMovinOn]

Hi SoMovinOn,

I really like your posts, but I hope you don't mind if I take issue with this one.

 

I think it gets problematic when anyone wants civility, but accepts jabs as they feel appropriate. It becomes problematic because different people have different ideas on what a jab is, and if it was really called for. I feel that my threads were littered with several uncalled for jabs. Obviously the people that posted them felt differently. Very differently.

 

What I am trying to say is we are to be civil to each other, jabs are never appropriate.

 

Thank you for reading, and I hope I haven't offended anyone.

I hope everyone has a restful weekend.

 

I totally understand, and, oddly, don't disagree. Which brings up something that may be fodder for another thread - the reality that humans are often contradictory.

 

I don't like labels. Labels assume we can look at a single component of someone, perhaps a single action, a single instant, and know that person. Applying that to this forum, the "logic" is, once a person is involved in an affair, they are a liar - always. If that were true, then pretty much everyone could wear the label as liar, since it would be extremely rare to find someone who has never lied.

 

Anyway, getting back to your point... as I pondered my original statements a bit, I think you are more right than I was - in a civil discussion, it is best to stay civil, even in the face of someone being blatantly rude. Ignoring that person does far more to disarm them than anything else could.

[SoMovinOn]

LOL. you couldn't possibly be biased could you?

You want everyone to be civil, except to those who you think deserve it.

 

In spite of the fact that there are some who think otherwise, I am human, and, therefore, biased.

[SoMovinOn]

Okay. So from your pov, it's fine to jab at people as long as the jab is "fitting" within a discussion.

 

As you may have seen, I have pondered that stance further. In my original thoughts, I was applying to concept to RL. Thinking about a social gathering where everyone is civil. Some drunk dude shows up and starts being rude to some of the women. I will always be civil at first... something like "Hey dude, she's not interested in talking to you. Why don't you go sit over there?"

 

... and you can continue on that way, to a point, but, there are some knuckleheads who just refuse to get it. They don't want to be civil. They *want* to be rude and obnoxious. In that case, it may get to the point where physically helping him to relocate becomes the best option, possibly, completely relocating him to somewhere other than the entire social gathering.

 

It's not something that happens often, but, the few times it does, meeting force with force *is* the most appropriate response. The other option would be, the knucklehead becomes such a disruption, everyone else leaves the social event, leaving knucklehead there alone. ... but why should everyone else leave because of one moron?

 

So... applying that same logic here - if there is one, or if there are a few, posters whose *only* purpose here is to be rude and disruptive, then it might be possible the best way of dealing with them is to meet force with force.

 

However, as I have said, I have further pondered that original line of thinking. Here in a forum, where we have only the written word, acknowledging a moron seems to more often just further inspire them. The best answer then for someone like that is to simply ignore them. If no one responds to them, they have no fuel for their fire and, eventually, just go away (or, fall into line with more civil postings).

[woinlove]

Fair enough, SMO, but not sure how to connect your new examples to the example being discussed. Not sure which "knuckleheads" or "morons" you thought Tami was responding to - such that, on second thought, ignoring them would be better than a jab. As I've mentioned previously, the more generic jabs could be meant for most posters or just for a few posters. It isn't clear.

[Love Me Tender]

Ditto...

 

It's not that serious...

 

I do worry how the uber sensitive manage to exist in the real word much less conduct an affair when it seems like just about every appearance of an "insult" bothers them to the core.

 

Those who nitpick are usually NEVER satisfied...sometimes they complain until they even start complaining about their own solutions So what do do? Someone has to have the final say....which is in this case: following the TOS and keeping it pushing as engaging in nitpickery has no end.

Here is an example of what I believe the OP is talking about. As a new poster to forums I find this kind of thinking ridiculous and counterproductive to the nature of a support forum. I came for answers, support, and help but was met with a whole bunch of "he's not really concerned about you", etc. I sensed that these were in fact designed as insults to get me 'to think' rather than particular posters offering real support or advice. It appears that many here, who happen not to be OP, target those in As or possible A situations like to gang up on OPs and rile them up like it's a big scheme on the prevention of support for those people. I almost think they should call this the LET'S TRICK PEOPLE INTO THINKING THIS IS A SUPPORT FORUM FOR OP and the fine print should read BUT YOU MAY JUST FIND ONE OR TWO POSTERS WHO HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN THERE SO PLEASE BE PATIENT AND SIFT THROUGH ALL THE NONSENSE UNTIL YOU CAN GET REAL ADVICE.

 

I don't consider myself an OP but I thought I could be for about 5 minutes. If my Separated Man ever went back to save his M it would crush me and if he tried to get me back as OW I can't say I would say no if I am completely honest with myself. For that I feel I relate a little with those involved in affairs.

[wannabdone]

I totally understand, and, oddly, don't disagree. Which brings up something that may be fodder for another thread - the reality that humans are often contradictory.

 

I don't like labels. Labels assume we can look at a single component of someone, perhaps a single action, a single instant, and know that person. Applying that to this forum, the "logic" is, once a person is involved in an affair, they are a liar - always. If that were true, then pretty much everyone could wear the label as liar, since it would be extremely rare to find someone who has never lied.

 

Anyway, getting back to your point... as I pondered my original statements a bit, I think you are more right than I was - in a civil discussion, it is best to stay civil, even in the face of someone being blatantly rude. Ignoring that person does far more to disarm them than anything else could.

 

 

I think you are SPOT ON!!! There is not one person on here that is free of doing something at some point that is labeled "wrong" or a "sin". Everybody has lied, are they essentially "liars"? Probably not.

 

IMO when some people come here, (myself included), I was hurting. I came for support. Now, that doesn't mean that there can't or won't be things I don't agree with. But, sometimes I think people lose sight of what the OP actually started the thread for. And start the "nit picking" as its been called. I have seen things that weren't loaded with insults or name calling, but are so counter productive, if I had been on here a few years ago and had those statements said to me, I would have went right back to my xMM.

 

Also, so many times people can read a sentence one way, and go back and re-read it another way. So, its hard to say there is a specific way to post. Emotional state has a lot to do with how people might take things. But, I think if someone has a average intellegence level, they can tell what kind of emotional state the OP is in.

 

yes, the best way to handle them is always not acknowledge them. But, I think its hard at times to "turn the other cheek". But, if and when I do acknowledge them, I always try to handle it civilly.

 

Guess it just boils down to if you do or don't care about other humans. A lot of times you see people being hateful and tearing down a OP, blaming them for being so selfish for hurting other people. All the while, their actions are being used for their selfish reasons (hurt, anger, what have you), and hurt people. I said it before, and I will repeat it.... IMO there is a lot of hypocrisy.

 

Think people in general should be kind to someone, even in dissagreements. Don't get your rocks off of tearing someone who is already down, down even further. And basically practice what you preach. Don't preach selfishness and hurting others is wrong, when you yourself is doing the same. Basically a good rule of thumb to live by......"practice what you preach".

[Mme. Chaucer]

"Affairs" is a supercharged subject.

 

"Support" is subjective.

 

I really do see a lot of support offered to people here who are trying to deal with the reality of an EMA. I don't mean only for those who are trying to get out of one, either. I see honest reaching out often met with honest efforts to support and help.

 

On the other hand, though, when people come here looking for "support" in viallinizing the clueless ("nonsexual" , shrewish, fat, boring) wife at home, or in implications that their love exists in a somehow higher realm that can only be comprehended by other women who are involved with a man who's married to someone else …

 

and maybe most of all, in justifying dishonesty,

 

That's usually when the hackles and claws come out.

[eleanor01]

Here is an example of what I believe the OP is talking about. As a new poster to forums I find this kind of thinking ridiculous and counterproductive to the nature of a support forum. I came for answers, support, and help but was met with a whole bunch of "he's not really concerned about you", etc. I sensed that these were in fact designed as insults to get me 'to think' rather than particular posters offering real support or advice. It appears that many here, who happen not to be OP, target those in As or possible A situations like to gang up on OPs and rile them up like it's a big scheme on the prevention of support for those people. I almost think they should call this the LET'S TRICK PEOPLE INTO THINKING THIS IS A SUPPORT FORUM FOR OP and the fine print should read BUT YOU MAY JUST FIND ONE OR TWO POSTERS WHO HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN THERE SO PLEASE BE PATIENT AND SIFT THROUGH ALL THE NONSENSE UNTIL YOU CAN GET REAL ADVICE.

 

I don't consider myself an OP but I thought I could be for about 5 minutes. If my Separated Man ever went back to save his M it would crush me and if he tried to get me back as OW I can't say I would say no if I am completely honest with myself. For that I feel I relate a little with those involved in affairs.

 

Yes.

 

I have been a betrayed spouse (well, we weren't married, but we were living together and talking about getting married). If anyone really wants to know that story, I will share. I never, ever thought I would end up as an OW. But, here I am.

 

It's lonely being an OW/OM. We have very few people we can talk to. I came here to share and for support. What happens to many of us is we are told that we have various and sundry horrible character flaws, as do our MM/MW. Everyone has character flaws, but I think that very few of us are outright evil. Yet, we are treated as though we were natural-born Jezebels.

 

A word of encouragement: Within the nastiness was at least one gem of wisdom that was kindly offered. It was really hard to hear, but it was a possible eventuality that I had not considered and I am glad that the people who offered this wisdom did so.

 

Another word of encouragement: I have struck up PM relationships with two other posters and I treasure the support and kindness that they have shown me. My situation is particularly rough right now. I am alone and lonely and these two women have helped me to feel less desolate.

 

That said, I agree with you 100% Apparently, there will be new moderators. Maybe the board will change so that the reality is more in line with the description.

 

Best,

Ellie

[jwi71]

 

... and you can continue on that way, to a point, but, there are some knuckleheads who just refuse to get it. They don't want to be civil. They *want* to be rude and obnoxious. In that case, it may get to the point where physically helping him to relocate becomes the best option, possibly, completely relocating him to somewhere other than the entire social gathering.

 

That's called the "Ignore" button.

 

It's not something that happens often, but, the few times it does, meeting force with force *is* the most appropriate response. The other option would be, the knucklehead becomes such a disruption, everyone else leaves the social event, leaving knucklehead there alone. ... but why should everyone else leave because of one moron?

 

And this is called the "Report" button.

 

So... applying that same logic here - if there is one, or if there are a few, posters whose *only* purpose here is to be rude and disruptive, then it might be possible the best way of dealing with them is to meet force with force.

 

You can always use the ignore button.

You can report the offending posts and, in time, the offender gets banned.

You can leave LS.

 

Several options that accomplish what you seek.

 

Because the option of "be rude in return" just doesn't make any sense to me. It seems counter to what you have been saying - that we should be civil and here you are saying "well, if its rude I'll be rude in return." Which is clearly the best way to take the offending thread and tone it down.

 

The best course, to me, is to simply ignore rude and offense posts/posters. And if you are SO incensed to act, hit the ignore button. Or report them.

 

Better yet, do nothing. Because acting in anger gets one bottle busted and "escorted" out by Guido, who is 6'4" and can bench press a Volkswagen.

 

However, as I have said, I have further pondered that original line of thinking. Here in a forum, where we have only the written word, acknowledging a moron seems to more often just further inspire them. The best answer then for someone like that is to simply ignore them. If no one responds to them, they have no fuel for their fire and, eventually, just go away (or, fall into line with more civil postings).

 

Yup. Ignore them.

Because to "return fire" immediately makes YOU one of THEM - no longer part of the solution but part of the problem.

 

Its an inherent risk in public forums on inflammatory topics. The alternative?

A closed board where everyone speaks in unison and in harmony. While "civil" (as everyone agrees) I question how anyone can grow if only faced with like-minded posters. I call it dogma - a refuge for the simple-minded.

 

My .02 if its worth even that.