SoMovinOn Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Since it seems there are some who would like do discuss this, I thought I'd create a thread for it. I grew up learning that even when disagreeing with someone, one should be civil and present their disagreement in an adult, polite, manner. I was taught that making a rude remark simply for the sake of making a rude remark, never has a place among civil adults. Obviously, this is a global forum. People are brought up differently, have different cultural backgrounds, different personalities, different ways of expressing themselves. I can accept that. However, this is a forum for the purpose of support and discussion, so, that should be the culture which is promoted here. I have notice there are some here who feel the need to constantly restate the obvious. People involved in Affairs generally already know these obvious facts and are not here looking for someone to help them determine what an affair is or what is involved in an Affair. Perhaps we can clear some things up here and minimize the need some feel to restate the same thing in every thread. - This is a forum for OW/OM. - OW/OM are involved in Affairs - OW/OM are involve in affairs with MM/MM - Affairs, infidelity and cheating on your spouse are usually bad - Lying to your spouse, deceiving your spouse, are usually bad - Getting divorced before dating would be the preferred option - If you are involved in an Affair and your MM/MW tells you he or she is getting divorced, there is a good chance they won't - OW/OM can choose to end an Affair, but it may be difficult and painful - Hindsight is 20/20, so, once you are out of an affair, you will likely see it differently - Being involved in an Affair proves your willingness and ability to be involved in an affair. Both parties may have some difficulty in trusting the other because of this. Feel free to add anything to the list you feel falls under the heading of "Restating the obvious"
Author SoMovinOn Posted September 23, 2011 Author Posted September 23, 2011 So... having a list of things which need not be repeated as every response to every thread, perhaps if an OW were to come on and ask "My MM is taking me to see my first play. What should I wear?", maybe we can eliminate or at least minimize the "Your MM is a lying POS, wear whatever you want, but he's just going to dump you and run back to his wife!" responses. As others have pointed out on a number of occasions, there are forums for pretty much anything. If all you wish to do is spew vile and venom and degrade others, believe it or not, there are places for that. While you are here, it would be nice if you could try to maintain the spirit of the forum - help and discussion. That doesn't mean you have to agree with everyone. It doesn't mean you can't offer some "tough love"... it just means if your response serves no purpose, then don't post it.
Author SoMovinOn Posted September 23, 2011 Author Posted September 23, 2011 Are you the appointed forum police? Nope. Just a guy with some thoughts an opinions. Anyone who feels there is no need to be civil is free to continue to do so. Just throwing out some food for thought. As for restating what you feel is obvious, there are new posters all the time so it's not known or obvious to them. I'm not following you on this as most posts are unique to the original poster. The responses do follow a common theme because affairs follow a theme. So... just to clarify ... you think it's possible a new OW/OM might come here and not know they are involved in an affair? or not know they married person they are dating is married? or that all that sneaking around they are doing is for the purpose of covering up the deceit? Well, I suppose it's possible and, in any case where that would seem to be true, I would certainly encourage informing the new poster of these realities. Civility is always a good thing. It is... even in bad situations. Much more seems to get accomplished.
Author SoMovinOn Posted September 23, 2011 Author Posted September 23, 2011 I haven't read too many responses such as your example, so they don't seem to be the norm. Rude, in your face ones are usually deleted. Any is too many. There will always be some people who are more interested in sharing their anger or hurt in an inappropriate manner, so, there will always be some.
herenow Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 It's hard to expect total "civility" in a forum that primarily discusses EMA's. The topic itself is not exactly "civil". The topic itself is very volatile. IMO, what we see here is real life reactions to actions that cause pain to so many people. I think it's a good thing that these emotions are out in the open. To ask people to hide how they feel (anger, pain or happiness), would be counterproductive. JMO
Author SoMovinOn Posted September 23, 2011 Author Posted September 23, 2011 It's hard to expect total "civility" in a forum that primarily discusses EMA's. The topic itself is not exactly "civil". The topic itself is very volatile. IMO, what we see here is real life reactions to actions that cause pain to so many people. I think it's a good thing that these emotions are out in the open. To ask people to hide how they feel (anger, pain or happiness), would be counterproductive. JMO I totally agree. My point is that we can do that without being rude or scaring off newcomers.
herenow Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 I totally agree. My point is that we can do that without being rude or scaring off newcomers. Right, but here is the thing. IMO, the real emotions of those who have been either hurt or are happy because of an affair is valuable to even newcomers. It's real. If a newcomers is scared of what they see here, then maybe being involved in an affair in real life is not a good thing for that person.
woinlove Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 It is interesting that you start a thread on civility, SMO, just after I thought you had put down another poster using sarcasm. I sometimes find your own posts do nothing but take a jab at another poster - I recall one saying something to the effect that having nothing to say doesn't stop you from saying it (not to me, to someone else.) I wouldn't usually bring this up, as I expect a whole range of personalities on a public forum and I am willing to look for content and useful ideas even when they are presented in a less than polite way. However, since you started a thread on this very subject after denying you were putting down a poster and saying you didn't want to discuss it publicly - it now seems appropriate to bring up how much our two perceptions differ. It shows that we sometimes do not agree on what is rude and what is not. I think most people can learn to be more polite and understanding - I know I am not always as polite or understanding as I would like to be - and if this thread somehow helps, that is great.
no expectations Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Posted just minutes ago on another thread...this forum is for people IN/GETTING OUT OF/ENTERING Affairs. It's not the "post here if you need to be told you are trash" forum. "you women" says it all... "You worship a man who is betraying and lying to the woman he walked down the aisle with; the woman he promised to stay faithful to? You worship and can't live without a man who is living a lie to his wife and to you? You worship a man who is most definitely having sex with his wife while I'm sure he CLAIMS to you he's not? Do you like being sloppy seconds? The thing I just don't get with you women who consciously make the choice (because it IS a choice) to get involved with married men is..........how could do this TO another woman? You are an intentional, selfish and active participant in the ultimate act of betrayal against another woman. I can't even begin to imagine doing to someone what I know would devastate me and break my heart. That's called having a conscience and respecting boundaries. Why do you women who are involved in affairs lack these? Why do you put your own selfish needs ahead of innocent people? Why do you even give the time of day to a man who is married? I'm sorry but I feel no sympathy or compassion for the trials and tribulations of a the man or woman involved with a MW/MM because you made the conscious choice to cross the line and get involved in something you never should have. How can you really expect sympathy? You brought all of this on yourself by knowingly getting involved with someone's LYING SPOUSE"
skywriter Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Since it seems there are some who would like do discuss this, I thought I'd create a thread for it. I grew up learning that even when disagreeing with someone, one should be civil and present their disagreement in an adult, polite, manner. I was taught that making a rude remark simply for the sake of making a rude remark, never has a place among civil adults. Obviously, this is a global forum. People are brought up differently, have different cultural backgrounds, different personalities, different ways of expressing themselves. I can accept that. However, this is a forum for the purpose of support and discussion, so, that should be the culture which is promoted here. I have notice there are some here who feel the need to constantly restate the obvious. People involved in Affairs generally already know these obvious facts and are not here looking for someone to help them determine what an affair is or what is involved in an Affair. Perhaps we can clear some things up here and minimize the need some feel to restate the same thing in every thread. - This is a forum for OW/OM. - OW/OM are involved in Affairs - OW/OM are involve in affairs with MM/MM - Affairs, infidelity and cheating on your spouse are usually bad - Lying to your spouse, deceiving your spouse, are usually bad - Getting divorced before dating would be the preferred option - If you are involved in an Affair and your MM/MW tells you he or she is getting divorced, there is a good chance they won't - OW/OM can choose to end an Affair, but it may be difficult and painful - Hindsight is 20/20, so, once you are out of an affair, you will likely see it differently - Being involved in an Affair proves your willingness and ability to be involved in an affair. Both parties may have some difficulty in trusting the other because of this. Feel free to add anything to the list you feel falls under the heading of "Restating the obvious" Thank You for posting that SMO. It's unfortunant that it will fall on deaf ears, one track minds, and immature people, that feel the need to post anyway.
Silly_Girl Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 It's hard to expect total "civility" in a forum that primarily discusses EMA's. The topic itself is not exactly "civil". The topic itself is very volatile. IMO, what we see here is real life reactions to actions that cause pain to so many people. I think it's a good thing that these emotions are out in the open. To ask people to hide how they feel (anger, pain or happiness), would be counterproductive. JMO It must be partly down to the mix. In real life I wouldn't sit with a bunch of folk who I don't know but who are likely to be disapproving and unfriendly because they were cheated on by the man they were/are married to and I am involved with a married man and the only 'common ground' initially is the experience of an affair situation. Which is probably why, without exception, I either received love and support in real life, or an ambivalent 'each to their own' shrug-like response. I was not lectured, no one told me unequivocally what WOULD happen or that I was DEFINITELY being lied to. Or that I was a bad person, bad parent, bad daughter or that I must have serious self-esteem issues. Or that I was a pathetic person and that my relationship was sub-standard and I was sitting at home peeing my pants over the odd call/text message and that I had nothing else fulfilling in my life except to shag a husband. I think it's in part due to civility, manners and respect SMO. I like your thread.
no expectations Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 People who cheat or who get involved with those who are married ARE trash, IMO....and the only people who would defend them are those who participate in this deceitful lifestyle. One should be ashamed for getting involved with someone else's SPOUSE and then coming here to whine about how tough things are, how their MM/MW lies to them, won't leave their spouse, doesn't keep their promises, bla bla bla. You made your bed, now lie in it. Thanks Gurl...it was my hope that you would respond just exactly as you have:) Civility lives on:)
Silly_Girl Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 So how is your history with difficult times gives you the moral right to help mess up someone else's life? When did I say any of the above? And who says I have?
His4Always Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 So... having a list of things which need not be repeated as every response to every thread, perhaps if an OW were to come on and ask "My MM is taking me to see my first play. What should I wear?", maybe we can eliminate or at least minimize the "Your MM is a lying POS, wear whatever you want, but he's just going to dump you and run back to his wife!" responses. As others have pointed out on a number of occasions, there are forums for pretty much anything. If all you wish to do is spew vile and venom and degrade others, believe it or not, there are places for that. While you are here, it would be nice if you could try to maintain the spirit of the forum - help and discussion. That doesn't mean you have to agree with everyone. It doesn't mean you can't offer some "tough love"... it just means if your response serves no purpose, then don't post it.SoMovinOn, You are a sweetheart! I was defensive in my first thread for fear of being bashed, but then I got bashed for being defensive. We can't win. Until people are able to open their hearts and minds to a new point of view, this is the way it will be. You are sweet and thoughtful for trying. Someday...
MissBee Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) Since it seems there are some who would like do discuss this, I thought I'd create a thread for it. I grew up learning that even when disagreeing with someone, one should be civil and present their disagreement in an adult, polite, manner. I was taught that making a rude remark simply for the sake of making a rude remark, never has a place among civil adults. Obviously, this is a global forum. People are brought up differently, have different cultural backgrounds, different personalities, different ways of expressing themselves. I can accept that. However, this is a forum for the purpose of support and discussion, so, that should be the culture which is promoted here. I have notice there are some here who feel the need to constantly restate the obvious. People involved in Affairs generally already know these obvious facts and are not here looking for someone to help them determine what an affair is or what is involved in an Affair. Perhaps we can clear some things up here and minimize the need some feel to restate the same thing in every thread. - This is a forum for OW/OM. - OW/OM are involved in Affairs - OW/OM are involve in affairs with MM/MM - Affairs, infidelity and cheating on your spouse are usually bad - Lying to your spouse, deceiving your spouse, are usually bad - Getting divorced before dating would be the preferred option - If you are involved in an Affair and your MM/MW tells you he or she is getting divorced, there is a good chance they won't - OW/OM can choose to end an Affair, but it may be difficult and painful - Hindsight is 20/20, so, once you are out of an affair, you will likely see it differently - Being involved in an Affair proves your willingness and ability to be involved in an affair. Both parties may have some difficulty in trusting the other because of this. Feel free to add anything to the list you feel falls under the heading of "Restating the obvious" I think that it can never be left up to the individual to decide on the social rules and norms and I imagine that the moderators of the forum realize that in order to promote organic discussion the forums need rules that govern basic civility; which it has. It however, cannot and did not seek to curtail organic discussion by making detailed rules about what can and cannot be said and how people should express themselves. To do so would promote an artificial environment that stifled real discussion by real people and would also become rather dubious as it tries to caters to each individuals sensitivities. It therefore has sought to mimic real life,as best as possible, by barring outlandish behavior that is almost without doubt offensive and unnecessary but leaves a wide gap for people to otherwise speak and discuss as they see fit. I find it bothersome when people feel the need to go beyond that structure and try to police and nitpick what THEY believe others should and shouldn't be able to do... It truly is tiresome and is like that one person in class, where after the class rules and etiquette have been agreed upon, always curtails the proceedings by nitpicking at some rather trivial aspect... Restating the obvious for example is something people are free to do if they so please, as it is not against the terms of the board. It may be annoying sometimes and even unnecessary but if people want to do so, then they can do so. I find it rude and offensive for someone to take it upon themselves, when it has already been done, the task of telling others what proper behavior is and it is especially irritating, when such a person exhibits improper behavior themselves at times. Since no one is above reproach, it seems like the sensible thing for us to let organic discussion flow, blatant offenses be dealt with individually versus making manifestos for the majority. You stated many things that should occur in a perfect world re affairs but do not, thus people should ignore that they do not occur and deal with what is...I agree. I would also add that perfect civility or people discussing heated topics without a sarcastic, acerbic, tongue-in-cheek, critical remark is also only possible in that perfect world...and since As would not occur in that perfect world...then this wouldn't be a topic. But since As occur and the world isn't perfect, perfect civility and politeness is also not possible so restating the obvious would include people time and again bringing up such topics asking for the impossible.... Civility and restating the obvious have nothing to do with each other as you can restate the obvious in a civil manner. I do not think that civility is what is being asked for here but rather there is a desire to police people's responses and mold the board into acting in a way that you find particularly comfortable for you...which would be very inorganic. I say people can say what they want within the TOS, as that is what makes for a real board and I will also say that most people are pretty civil most days and one or two rude or snarky remarks isn't anything to be bothered about as ALL of us do it at one point or another...shoot...the mods should ban the rolleyes smiley as evidently the only reason it is used is for sarcasm, exasperation and snarkiness...and apaprently that isn't civil so it being around is only encouraging that sort of thing... With all that you have cited above as things people restate and should just not bother to state...what then is left? If it were your world to organize SMO, what would be appropriate to discuss if we omit all the above? Edited September 23, 2011 by MissBee
skywriter Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 The IRONY!!! On a thread about civility and you post that. LOL I know right?! Shame, on me!
Circular Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 For me I'm not bothered by it really. Almost anyone who posts here being 'uncivil' is usually experiencing a world of pain and heartache as a direct result of being on the other side equation. I'd hate a world where everyone was so myopic and walled of from contradictory opinion that we weren't reminded of the need to be empathetic or compassionate to everyone involved in the triangle. For example, I find myself reading more of the threads in the infidelity forum it's good for me not to be blind to all the realities. I think what gets to me the most is that I believe that life is about understanding life, understanding what it means to be human, accepting our flaws, working through our trials and tribulations and our differences - brought on by self or outside circumstances. I hate to see when people are so polarized in their views that they lose sight of that, they lose touch with seeing the other person on the other side of the post as a human being seeking help/guidance. Some people come here very confused and lost, lied too, diluted, maybe even at times delusional but to me I'm not here to judge what they've done only provide guidance from my own personal experience.
Spark1111 Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Since it seems there are some who would like do discuss this, I thought I'd create a thread for it. I grew up learning that even when disagreeing with someone, one should be civil and present their disagreement in an adult, polite, manner. I was taught that making a rude remark simply for the sake of making a rude remark, never has a place among civil adults. Obviously, this is a global forum. People are brought up differently, have different cultural backgrounds, different personalities, different ways of expressing themselves. I can accept that. However, this is a forum for the purpose of support and discussion, so, that should be the culture which is promoted here. I have notice there are some here who feel the need to constantly restate the obvious. People involved in Affairs generally already know these obvious facts and are not here looking for someone to help them determine what an affair is or what is involved in an Affair. Perhaps we can clear some things up here and minimize the need some feel to restate the same thing in every thread. - This is a forum for OW/OM. - OW/OM are involved in Affairs - OW/OM are involve in affairs with MM/MM - Affairs, infidelity and cheating on your spouse are usually bad - Lying to your spouse, deceiving your spouse, are usually bad - Getting divorced before dating would be the preferred option - If you are involved in an Affair and your MM/MW tells you he or she is getting divorced, there is a good chance they won't - OW/OM can choose to end an Affair, but it may be difficult and painful - Hindsight is 20/20, so, once you are out of an affair, you will likely see it differently - Being involved in an Affair proves your willingness and ability to be involved in an affair. Both parties may have some difficulty in trusting the other because of this. Feel free to add anything to the list you feel falls under the heading of "Restating the obvious" So moving on, I too believe civility is wonderful. But this is a public opinion forum and if you can't take the heat get outta the kitchen. There are many other sites that will cater to your individual stance on ANY topic. There is also IC. As for restating the obvious, we all are subject to that, and there is no need to treat all as if we are not adults. Some may be harsh or rude, but really, so what? When I first visited LS, I too, as a BS heard over and over again: How do you know he isn't still seeing his OW. They could have gone underground. Why didn't you just divorce him? How will you ever trust him again? And so on, and so on. ALL OF IT gave me thoughts to ponder, some very painful. Take what you need, and leave the rest.
MissBee Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 It is interesting that you start a thread on civility, SMO, just after I thought you had put down another poster using sarcasm. I sometimes find your own posts do nothing but take a jab at another poster - I recall one saying something to the effect that having nothing to say doesn't stop you from saying it (not to me, to someone else.) I wouldn't usually bring this up, as I expect a whole range of personalities on a public forum and I am willing to look for content and useful ideas even when they are presented in a less than polite way. However, since you started a thread on this very subject after denying you were putting down a poster and saying you didn't want to discuss it publicly - it now seems appropriate to bring up how much our two perceptions differ. It shows that we sometimes do not agree on what is rude and what is not. I think most people can learn to be more polite and understanding - I know I am not always as polite or understanding as I would like to be - and if this thread somehow helps, that is great. Ditto... I have no need to police...even those whom I find less than my cup of tea. I just do not relate to that desire to make manifestos for the board. Never have and never will make a thread to discuss how I think people should act, what they should say, do etc. I have no problems with a poster being rude to me...it is what it is within reason. I'm a big girl, I can handle sarcasm and snarkiness. If you start abusing me now, whole other issue, but all else is fair game. I find it counterproductive to stop the regularly scheduled program to do what has already been done...which is, create rules of conduct for the board.
skywriter Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 People who cheat or who get involved with those who are married ARE trash, IMO....and the only people who would defend them are those who participate in this deceitful lifestyle. One should be ashamed for getting involved with someone else's SPOUSE and then coming here to whine about how tough things are, how their MM/MW lies to them, won't leave their spouse, doesn't keep their promises, bla bla bla. You made your bed, now lie in it. Now there's the point , for my ironic statement.
skywriter Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 For me I'm not bothered by it really. Almost anyone who posts here being 'uncivil' is usually experiencing a world of pain and heartache as a direct result of being on the other side equation. I'd hate a world where everyone was so myopic and walled of from contradictory opinion that we weren't reminded of the need to be empathetic or compassionate to everyone involved in the triangle. For example, I find myself reading more of the threads in the infidelity forum it's good for me not to be blind to all the realities. I think what gets to me the most is that I believe that life is about understanding life, understanding what it means to be human, accepting our flaws, working through our trials and tribulations and our differences - brought on by self or outside circumstances. I hate to see when people are so polarized in their views that they lose sight of that, they lose touch with seeing the other person on the other side of the post as a human being seeking help/guidance. Some people come here very confused and lost, lied too, diluted, maybe even at times delusional but to me I'm not here to judge what they've done only provide guidance from my own personal experience. You have the attitude, that can actually offer contructive advice and understanding.
Spark1111 Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 For me I'm not bothered by it really. Almost anyone who posts here being 'uncivil' is usually experiencing a world of pain and heartache as a direct result of being on the other side equation. I'd hate a world where everyone was so myopic and walled of from contradictory opinion that we weren't reminded of the need to be empathetic or compassionate to everyone involved in the triangle. For example, I find myself reading more of the threads in the infidelity forum it's good for me not to be blind to all the realities. I think what gets to me the most is that I believe that life is about understanding life, understanding what it means to be human, accepting our flaws, working through our trials and tribulations and our differences - brought on by self or outside circumstances. I hate to see when people are so polarized in their views that they lose sight of that, they lose touch with seeing the other person on the other side of the post as a human being seeking help/guidance. Some people come here very confused and lost, lied too, diluted, maybe even at times delusional but to me I'm not here to judge what they've done only provide guidance from my own personal experience. I'm with you Circular! But not everyone is, and that's okay with me too.
donnamaybe Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 It is interesting that you start a thread on civility, SMO, just after I thought you had put down another poster using sarcasm. I sometimes find your own posts do nothing but take a jab at another poster - I recall one saying something to the effect that having nothing to say doesn't stop you from saying it (not to me, to someone else.) Yep. Pot-kettle. Look, everyone can have whatever opinion they choose. Posts like the one supposedly quoted on the first page ARE irritating, regardless whether you are pro-A or anti-A.
MissBee Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Quote: Originally Posted by country_gurl People who cheat or who get involved with those who are married ARE trash, IMO....and the only people who would defend them are those who participate in this deceitful lifestyle. One should be ashamed for getting involved with someone else's SPOUSE and then coming here to whine about how tough things are, how their MM/MW lies to them, won't leave their spouse, doesn't keep their promises, bla bla bla. You made your bed, now lie in it. Skywriter said, "Now there's the point , for my ironic statement." But cg had every right to say that, you or I might not like it, might not agree with it, but just as long as someone doesn't break tos, she has that right. LS isn't protected/private but there are places that are so why try to change something that isn't yours or mine to change? That is what I have difficulty understanding. LS is public, non protected, not inclusive to certain groups. Someone else calls the shots, not the posters and when threads like this get started, I wonder what is the real purpose. I'm with you.... That is my problem, I do not get why people come and find LS as it is and has been since it's been created and continuously try to change it into something else which has yet to work as the years have gone by....versus finding a forum suiting their own tastes. And worst yet, it is only particular posters that seek to always reinvent LS for their own ends....but still stick around as LS continues to be less than stellar, according to their complaints. I love LS and have no issues with the people I disagree with....even the most ridic (in my eyes) come along! There's room in the inn . If I felt like LS should be any other way than it is, or felt all the people who create topics like these should be banned or asked to stop...but I continued coming here but then every couple months create some topic about this...theeennn I would wager that the problem lies with me and I am clearly not realizing I can only change myself and choose to not be here versus hand what I believe are good rules and order for strangers online. I'm ambitious but not that ambitious.
skywriter Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Quote: Originally Posted by country_gurl People who cheat or who get involved with those who are married ARE trash, IMO....and the only people who would defend them are those who participate in this deceitful lifestyle. One should be ashamed for getting involved with someone else's SPOUSE and then coming here to whine about how tough things are, how their MM/MW lies to them, won't leave their spouse, doesn't keep their promises, bla bla bla. You made your bed, now lie in it. Skywriter said, "Now there's the point , for my ironic statement." But cg had every right to say that, you or I might not like it, might not agree with it, but just as long as someone doesn't break tos, she has that right. LS isn't protected/private but there are places that are so why try to change something that isn't yours or mine to change? That is what I have difficulty understanding. LS is public, non protected, not inclusive to certain groups. Someone else calls the shots, not the posters and when threads like this get started, I wonder what is the real purpose. Ok. If you say so.
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