What MM Did For Me Today... Wow

[browndog319]

So I have considered myself finished with the MM for the last 2 months - I actually embarked on a relationship with a single guy which has frustrated me for reasons I could share with you guys (he has some serious issues and I'm not exactly sure where we stand right now).

 

I work with the MM - he is field based and I am in our corporate HQ. Downsizing has been expected for most of the year, and between that and just feeling like not working with the MM anymore will be key to moving on, I've been looking for a new job. However, MM has said he would give me a glowing reference when the time came although it would be bittersweet.

 

Well the time came. I heard from him he got grilled for 45 minutes (yikes!) and from the recruiter that my references were GLOWING and showed that I really impacted business and worked well with my colleagues.

 

Apparently MM's was the best. He called me last night because I sent him and the four other references a heads up to let them know who would be calling - very professional and in no way flirtatious. I had already put his name down before we ended things and also, he is in a great position to demonstrate how I partner with sales. He said it was going to be brutal to lose me as a business partner and everything else, but he would do his best and he couldn't do anything but speak the truth because no matter what, I had been the most loyal and trustworthy person he'd ever known and he would love me for the rest of his life. If this is what I wanted for my career, he would make sure I got it.

 

Nothing changed in our situation. I can't go back to being romantically involved with him (no matter what the deal is with the new single guy). But it was so unselfish of him to do this for me. He could have sabotaged it to keep it so I would see him at meetings and then might give in to the temptation - but he did what I wanted for me.

 

I am really happy that he did this and to know he really is a good person. Like I am - I just got lost in this terrible situation.

 

I will probably never see him again. He lives in Tennessee and I live in Pennsylvania. It hit me last night that in our conversation we were probably really saying good bye to each other for real.

 

And today he was unselfish and spoke highly of me. It is making me feel so good about what we shared in the past year. I don't regret it, I can never hate him, and I'm so glad I can feel this way about him.

[SoMovinOn]

Nice story! Most importantly, I hope you get the new job!

[Woman In Blue]

Well BrownDog, before you give him too much credit for being so selfless, don't forget that you have the capacity to destroy his career, marriage, reputation, and family unit - in one fell swoop - with one simple phone call to his wife. He's not a stupid man. He's fully aware of the fact that if he'd sabotaged your career in any way, he could have paid a very high price for doing so.

[browndog319]

Kristi, fair question. Apparently he didn't just say positive things, he RAVED. He went above and beyond a reference. He basically SOLD me to this company because he knew it was what I wanted. Even though he said his heart was breaking the whole time.

 

Right, my other 5 references were solid. The recruiter said his was amazing and more than what was needed.

[fooled once]

And...

 

I gave my friend a GLOWING reference and he told her he really appreciated what I said.

 

Legally, there are only 3-4 questions that are allowed to be asked.

 

All my old bosses gave me RAVE recommendations. I mean, people don't put down people as a reference who won't sell them as great. You would never give the name of someone you don't like as a reference, I mean, that's a given.

 

But you want to rave about him giving you a good reference. Good. Its the least he could do since you could technically file a sexual harassment claim and take the money for butt load of money.

[whichwayisup]

Kristi, fair question. Apparently he didn't just say positive things, he RAVED. He went above and beyond a reference. He basically SOLD me to this company because he knew it was what I wanted. Even though he said his heart was breaking the whole time.

 

Right, my other 5 references were solid. The recruiter said his was amazing and more than what was needed.

 

Over compensating is what he did. He had no choice BUT to give you such an amazing recommendation/reference.

 

It is what it is..Don't read into it or give yourself "hope." I guess see it as the best way of getting closure so you can move on with your life, respectfully, and not look backwards.

[SidLyon]

Kristi, fair question. Apparently he didn't just say positive things, he RAVED. He went above and beyond a reference. He basically SOLD me to this company because he knew it was what I wanted. Even though he said his heart was breaking the whole time.

 

Right, my other 5 references were solid. The recruiter said his was amazing and more than what was needed.

 

If I were the recruiter, I would be very disappointed to find out that the person who gave reviews had been in an relationship (inappropriate or not) with the applicant, and hadn't told me.

 

It would destroy the credibility of both the referee and the job applicant, not to declare the relationship.

 

My H gave excellent reviews to his OW (he was her boss). After d-day she again asked him for a reference. In fact she's been unable ever to hold down a job for more than 2 or 3 years because she kept having As with her managers.

 

My H realised that if he wanted to keep giving her references then he ought to be honest with the potential employer and declare that he'd been in a relationship with her. This gives the recruiter the opportunity to evaluate his reference.

 

Understandably my H decided he could no longer keep giving unbiased references.

 

Wouldn't you rather get the job based on a genuine independent assessment of your capabilities; rather than him just doing it because you are/were in an A and it's what you want? Presumably not, seeing as you are boasting about it.

[browndog319]

SidLyon, I had to give 5 references. The reason MM was one of them is because the reason we even met is that I had to work very closely with his team. Any person on his team would have been able to comment on my presentation skills, my passion, my ability to interface with key customers, my leadership.

 

The people on his team that report to him would have been inappropriate because they are at a level below me. He was never my boss. He never made decisions about my raises, bonuses, etc. My actual former boss was reference #1. My professional ability is not even a question.

 

If your H was in that situation, that is a different one where his judgment was clouded - and he could be sued. That woman had a spotty work history. I have an amazing resume and could have pulled multiple other references. I chose him because he was from my current job and highlighted a commitment to marketing partnering with sales, one of the key skills for this new job.

 

And a recruiter can drill into behavior and how someone handles situations. A background check which will happen next will confirm my dates of employment accuracy, criminal past, etc. These are absolutely allowed in terms of verifying if someone has the right skill set and professional behaviors to fit into the organization and do the job well.

 

I could not sue MM because it was not sexual harrassment ever. There would be no case that could be won.

 

The recruiter I'm working with actually said she has been amazed by some of the references people give - sometimes she scratches her head. But the behavioral questions get beyond the people just giving their best friends and the "old boys' club" way of doing things.

[browndog319]

I'm viewing this as closure for both of us because it's us both admitting we will never see each other again.

[wannabdone]

I'm viewing this as closure for both of us because it's us both admitting we will never see each other again.

 

 

Good for you BD!!! Way to move forward!!!!!

[SidLyon]

SidLyon, I had to give 5 references. The reason MM was one of them is because the reason we even met is that I had to work very closely with his team. Any person on his team would have been able to comment on my presentation skills, my passion, my ability to interface with key customers, my leadership.

 

The people on his team that report to him would have been inappropriate because they are at a level below me. He was never my boss. He never made decisions about my raises, bonuses, etc. My actual former boss was reference #1. My professional ability is not even a question.

 

If your H was in that situation, that is a different one where his judgment was clouded - and he could be sued. That woman had a spotty work history. I have an amazing resume and could have pulled multiple other references. I chose him because he was from my current job and highlighted a commitment to marketing partnering with sales, one of the key skills for this new job.

 

And a recruiter can drill into behavior and how someone handles situations. A background check which will happen next will confirm my dates of employment accuracy, criminal past, etc. These are absolutely allowed in terms of verifying if someone has the right skill set and professional behaviors to fit into the organization and do the job well.

 

I could not sue MM because it was not sexual harrassment ever. There would be no case that could be won.

 

The recruiter I'm working with actually said she has been amazed by some of the references people give - sometimes she scratches her head. But the behavioral questions get beyond the people just giving their best friends and the "old boys' club" way of doing things.

 

I understand that you may in fact be an excellent employee.

 

However as with many things, a conflict of interest is all about avoiding a perception of a conflict as well as an actual conflict. Reputations can be lost and credibility called into doubt, on the basis of perceptions.

 

I would have thought anybody in the workplace is aware of this and the importance of avoiding the perception that a reference is given by a person who is biased because of an inappropriate relationship.

 

I bet your disagreement with me does not go as far as testing it by informing the recruiter of the truth.

Edited September 23, 2011 by SidLyon

[wannabdone]

I understand that you may in fact be an excellent employee.

 

However as with many things, a conflict of interest is all about avoiding a perception of a conflict as well as an actual conflict. Reputations can be lost and credibility called into doubt, on the basis of perceptions.

 

I would have thought anybody in the workplace is aware of this and the importance of avoiding the perception that a reference is given by a person who is biased because of an inappropriate relationship.

 

I bet your disagreement with me does not go as far as testing it by informing the recruiter of the truth.

 

 

I bet her disagreement wouldn't go as far as telling the recruiter. Who in Gods green earth would????

 

I understand what you are saying, about th importance of avoiding things of this nature. But is it more important to avoid the possibility of a MM giving reference to his xOW, or is it more important to avoid a xMM and a xOW from working together? Which of those two sincero's would cause more lost of reputation of credibility? Which would cause more injury?

 

Maybe he did it because he cared, maybe he did it to CYA. Maybe it was both. Fact is, shes getting out of there and moving on with her life.

 

I agree she shouldn't read too much into it. People always have selfish reasons for doing things. But, since she's leaving the work place and she lives hundreds of miles and states away, if this brings her peace and closure. So be it.

[SidLyon]

I bet her disagreement wouldn't go as far as telling the recruiter. Who in Gods green earth would????

 

My boss commenced a relationship with one of my fellow team members. My boss immediately arranged that the team member reported to another boss in the same area.

 

These 2 people have nothing but respect from colleagues, and the team member got a promotion shortly afterwards with a reference from the new boss.

 

I should add that my boss is female and the fellow team member is male. Neither were married and we are a senior group of lawyers and accountants.

 

I've come to the conclusion that it's better understood here, just what "professionalism" means.

 

I understand what you are saying, about th importance of avoiding things of this nature. But is it more important to avoid the possibility of a MM giving reference to his xOW, or is it more important to avoid a xMM and a xOW from working together? Which of those two sincero's would cause more lost of reputation of credibility? Which would cause more injury?

 

Maybe he did it because he cared, maybe he did it to CYA. Maybe it was both. Fact is, shes getting out of there and moving on with her life.

 

I agree she shouldn't read too much into it. People always have selfish reasons for doing things. But, since she's leaving the work place and she lives hundreds of miles and states away, if this brings her peace and closure. So be it.

 

My commnets in bold.

[Gentlegirl]

He is probably taking out insurance ... in case he can hook up with you again.

 

Am I cynical... yes.

 

Do you need to be... yes.

 

I am not taking kudos away from you. I am sure you deserve the job and have all the necessary credentials

 

It wouldn't look good if they find out that your main refereee was your lover though.

 

Gentlegirl

[SoMovinOn]

Wow. Some people see a silver lining in every dark cloud. Obviously, some can manage to find a way to put a dark cloud around anything positive. I am amazed at the need some people have here to find some way to turn any situation into a negative and assign negative motives to the people involved.

 

Brown... he could have given you no recommendation at all, he could have given you a generic, legally correct, positive recommendation. That is what most companies allow these days. He didn't go that route, he gave you an accurately glowing recommendation which realistically reflected your actual work performance. He undoubtedly was able to support it with solid examples. Had he simply blurted out a string of glowing platitudes, any recruiter would have seen right through that.

 

He did something he didn't have to do because he knew you earned it and deserved it, professional. Contrary to all the negative responses here, what he did was put aside your relationship and based his review solely on your job performance.

 

It was a good thing. It was a positive thing. It was a very nice thing for him to do, and it's a good thing that you noticed it as such to the point where it had such a positive impact on you.

 

Again, Congratulations & I hope the best for you on your new job!

[SoMovinOn]

The advice my great grandmother's great grandmother gave her...

 

If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

 

Seriously you guys. What is the point here?

Woman in Blue

Kristismiles

Fooled once

Whichwayisup

Sid Lyon

... to a somewhat lesser degree, Gentle Girl

 

Is there some benefit or any manner of help provided in your finding some way of turning this into a negative? Maybe once in a while the best thing you can do for someone on this board is to say "Congratulations! I'm glad something good happened for you" ... and nothing more!

[SidLyon]

The advice my great grandmother's great grandmother gave her...

 

If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

 

Seriously you guys. What is the point here?

Woman in Blue

Kristismiles

Fooled once

Whichwayisup

Sid Lyon

... to a somewhat lesser degree, Gentle Girl

 

Is there some benefit or any manner of help provided in your finding some way of turning this into a negative? Maybe once in a while the best thing you can do for someone on this board is to say "Congratulations! I'm glad something good happened for you" ... and nothing more!

 

Hello SoMovingOn,

 

I see you are making suggestions to people what to post and especially what not to post on this and other threads (eg the "He's more than MM thread").

 

This is your right of course, but I suggest to you that it is probably not helpful overall for you to be doing this when you disagree with the tone and content of people's posts.

 

By all means keep posting these sorts of comments, but I expect you'll find that others will keep posting the comments with which you don't agree.

 

I will continue to ignore some posts if I feel like it and on other occasions, post as I see fit.

[Gentlegirl]

The advice my great grandmother's great grandmother gave her...

 

If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

 

Seriously you guys. What is the point here?

Woman in Blue

Kristismiles

Fooled once

Whichwayisup

Sid Lyon

... to a somewhat lesser degree, Gentle Girl

 

Is there some benefit or any manner of help provided in your finding some way of turning this into a negative? Maybe once in a while the best thing you can do for someone on this board is to say "Congratulations! I'm glad something good happened for you" ... and nothing more!

 

I did say I am cynical....

 

GG

[NoIDidn't]

The advice my great grandmother's great grandmother gave her...

 

If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

 

Seriously you guys. What is the point here?

Woman in Blue

Kristismiles

Fooled once

Whichwayisup

Sid Lyon

... to a somewhat lesser degree, Gentle Girl

 

Is there some benefit or any manner of help provided in your finding some way of turning this into a negative? Maybe once in a while the best thing you can do for someone on this board is to say "Congratulations! I'm glad something good happened for you" ... and nothing more!

 

SMH.

 

I was a little shocked at the direction of this thread, but I would never tell people what to post. They posted it to tell the OP he may have ulterior motives.

 

Was it a little strong? Maybe, that's up to the OP.

 

I hadn't thought of the possibility that MM may have been a poor choice for a reference should the truth come out. It doesn't seem like the OP had considered it either. I'm sure she was an excellent colleague, but there is a risk, whether it was an affair or not, in having a former intimate do a professional reference for you. Especially one where they go overboard. I am friends with my H's job recruiters, they have their suspicions about these things, even if they can't say it.

[browndog319]

I understand why some are very cynical (these relationships make the best of us cynical!) I think having gone through the pain of letting him go as a lover and as someone with whom I want a future or dream of a future, I had to see some of his behavior and actions as selfish. It was good to see him do something unselfish that actually caused him pain - he knows he will not see me at meetings ever again (the background check will commence and I know I will have an offer by Monday or Tuesday of next week as of this afternoon).

He knows that means there is no longer a chance to rekindle or slip back into this.

 

He admitted it hurt him, but he also knew it was an amazing career opportunity and that our current company was stupid for not taking more advantage of my talents.

 

I am glad that I get closure in a positive way and that I get to remember him as a good person who really did have my best interest at heart, even if we got embroiled in a very bad situation that compromised both of our morals. He never wanted to hurt me, never lied to me about leaving his family, never bad mouthed his wife. He didn't understand why he fell in love with me, he just did.

 

I was angry and hurt two months ago. Now I am grateful for him to have tried to have given me more than I currently have. A chance at a new start.

 

I have closure. And again, we are both admitting that we will never see each other again. It does hurt me because he was such a big part of my life, but I needed to take that leap. I was going to stay with my company because of him. Because previously I wanted those chances to see him... now I just want to have my own life. Have a normal relationship with a normal man (new guy is not normal and I don't think in the picture anymore :-(. He was fun while it lasted).

 

That to me is a positive. All we can hope for. I don't think for you to truly be over these As you have to think the person was bad, evil, etc. I consider myself just as guilty for the bad actions of the previous year. I am glad he and I can mutually respect each other.

[NoIDidn't]

...but he also knew it was an amazing career opportunity and that our current company was stupid for not taking more advantage of my talents.

 

Putting it that way, maybe that's why he raved.

 

I hadn't considered the CYA aspect, but do know that recruiters talk.

 

Maybe he wanted to make sure that you got the job and gave you the best reference that he could. Maybe its his gift to you since you probably won't see each other again and you really were a great asset to his team.

 

This topic does make us cynical. I hope you got the job and good luck on it!

[whichwayisup]

Question? Do you plan on going NC with him after this, or will you two keep intouch through emails and calls? I hope you're able to let go and move on in every way (no calls, emails, texts)..

 

Hope you get that job! Good luck!

[browndog319]

SMH.

 

I was a little shocked at the direction of this thread, but I would never tell people what to post. They posted it to tell the OP he may have ulterior motives.

 

Was it a little strong? Maybe, that's up to the OP.

 

I hadn't thought of the possibility that MM may have been a poor choice for a reference should the truth come out. It doesn't seem like the OP had considered it either. I'm sure she was an excellent colleague, but there is a risk, whether it was an affair or not, in having a former intimate do a professional reference for you. Especially one where they go overboard. I am friends with my H's job recruiters, they have their suspicions about these things, even if they can't say it.

 

Interesting questions - what could his ulterior motive be? We live 800 miles apart. I am certainly not going to visit TN and risking running into his family and God knows he is not going to upset his apple cart and come to PA to visit me! I guess he may, but I'm not seeing what possible ulterior motives there could be... I could have seen him throwing some behavioral ambiguity in there, an area for development that would not have been negative, but would have jeopardized the position if he wanted to keep me where he would have access to me. That was a risk with him - But I knew deep down he was a professional and fiercely loyal.

 

The relationship wasn't going to come out. Regardless, it has nothing to do with my professional ability. It's not like I slept with him to get a job or power. And we worked together amazingly well, very productive relationship. A lot of workplace relationships blossom - we have a policy that as long as it's not a direct reporting situation, it's fine.

[browndog319]

Putting it that way, maybe that's why he raved.

 

I hadn't considered the CYA aspect, but do know that recruiters talk.

 

Maybe he wanted to make sure that you got the job and gave you the best reference that he could. Maybe its his gift to you since you probably won't see each other again and you really were a great asset to his team.

 

This topic does make us cynical. I hope you got the job and good luck on it!

 

Thank you! Recruiters may talk, but they are also sales people, so they are going to protect their sale at this point of the game!

 

I should have an offer by early next week - thank you! It should be made even sweeter by the fact that I signed a "Request for Separation" from my current company and will hopefully also hear that I'm getting a very nice severance package. :-)

 

Finally, some really good stuff after some really painful stuff. Oh, and I close on my house next week. Phew - a lot of change, but GOOD change!

 

Thank you for the kind words!

[Gentlegirl]

I understand why some are very cynical (these relationships make the best of us cynical!) I think having gone through the pain of letting him go as a lover and as someone with whom I want a future or dream of a future, I had to see some of his behavior and actions as selfish. It was good to see him do something unselfish that actually caused him pain - he knows he will not see me at meetings ever again (the background check will commence and I know I will have an offer by Monday or Tuesday of next week as of this afternoon).

He knows that means there is no longer a chance to rekindle or slip back into this.

 

He admitted it hurt him, but he also knew it was an amazing career opportunity and that our current company was stupid for not taking more advantage of my talents.

 

I am glad that I get closure in a positive way and that I get to remember him as a good person who really did have my best interest at heart, even if we got embroiled in a very bad situation that compromised both of our morals. He never wanted to hurt me, never lied to me about leaving his family, never bad mouthed his wife. He didn't understand why he fell in love with me, he just did.

 

I was angry and hurt two months ago. Now I am grateful for him to have tried to have given me more than I currently have. A chance at a new start.

 

I have closure. And again, we are both admitting that we will never see each other again. It does hurt me because he was such a big part of my life, but I needed to take that leap. I was going to stay with my company because of him. Because previously I wanted those chances to see him... now I just want to have my own life. Have a normal relationship with a normal man (new guy is not normal and I don't think in the picture anymore :-(. He was fun while it lasted).

 

That to me is a positive. All we can hope for. I don't think for you to truly be over these As you have to think the person was bad, evil, etc. I consider myself just as guilty for the bad actions of the previous year. I am glad he and I can mutually respect each other.

 

I didn't mean to rina on your parade or take away from you achievements. I am pleased that your A has ended on such a good note.

 

So many don't...hence the cynics I suppose.

 

All the best for a stellar new career.

 

GG